@lykopis said:

@Raiiyn said:

I hope they kill this character forever, he's a male self-absorbing man, Havok is the powered up version, its canon that Dani Moonstart is as good a tactician. Cyclops gained fame through Fox network movies and by being played by that actor who was Prince Charming in Enchanted. In comics as well as the lame 90's fox cartoon Cyclops built himself up off being the guy who wasn't funny (Iceman) smart (Beast) or rich (Angel) or being a ginger (Jean) Cyclops was the plain jane who got to be special for being special, he's the male equivalent of Bella from Twilight, he's not credible and he's mentally unstable and physically insecure, kill him off forever, forever, for ever ever!!

Dying. I am dying, Gigi. **prepares herself**

Damn Raiiyn tell us how you really feel

Go Cyclops! xD

@lykopis: love you too ;P

@Blood1991: He grinds my gears.

@Raiiyn: I can't disagree entirely. He does p!ss me off some times especially in Messiah Complex and Second Coming.

@lykopis said:

@Raiiyn said:

I hope they kill this character forever, he's a male self-absorbing man, Havok is the powered up version, its canon that Dani Moonstart is as good a tactician. Cyclops gained fame through Fox network movies and by being played by that actor who was Prince Charming in Enchanted. In comics as well as the lame 90's fox cartoon Cyclops built himself up off being the guy who wasn't funny (Iceman) smart (Beast) or rich (Angel) or being a ginger (Jean) Cyclops was the plain jane who got to be special for being special, he's the male equivalent of Bella from Twilight, he's not credible and he's mentally unstable and physically insecure, kill him off forever, forever, for ever ever!!

Dying. I am dying, Gigi. **prepares herself**

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/thecrowbar/the-crowbar-swings-who-is-cyclops/87-71332/

Just want to share with you my perspective on who Scott Summers is. If you still dislike him that's fine, but I hope you give my argument a chance.

@Aiden Cross said:

Go Cyclops! xD

Tone it down, Dutchman. Your facetiousness is showing.....

@TheCrowbar:

I read your blog (thanks for the link) and I left my comments there instead of here. It's been expressed what many fans have felt about Scott -- especially from the 90's characterization onwards - and this whole AvX thing has just felt like the same interpretation but with a Phoenix turbo boost in terms of character annihilation. For me? I hate what they did to a lot of characters through-out AvX and I still cringe recalling some of the most stupid and ridiculous portrayals of many of the players. But Scott does not come off sympathetically at all. For me, I cannot stand someone who takes on the mantle of be solely responsible for an entire race, and with that, makes decisions he feels are the correct ones. Him. Just smacks of arrogance and also, that annoying stoicism that has been squeezed dry.

I don't want him dead -- but I don't want to see him take up so much panel-time with yet another soul-searching journey that will ultimately become another reconfirmation of his lot in life. Which is to sacrifice everything he is for mutantkind. Sounds very Xavier-ish to me, you know, the guy he just killed.

I just want some sense brought back into the X-Universe. Just a little bit. And Cyclops has been symbolic of that nonsense. To me, anyway.

@Blood1991: Ive disliked him since creation.

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991: Ive disliked him since creation.

Wow! How old are you?

@Blood1991 said:

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991: Ive disliked him since creation.

Wow! How old are you?

You know.. reading old comics doesnt mean Im old..

**Runs to mirror and begins to inspect for wrinkles while sobbing**

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991: Ive disliked him since creation.

Wow! How old are you?

You know.. reading old comics doesnt mean Im old..

**Runs to mirror and begins to inspect for wrinkles while sobbing**

I've made you cry twice in the last hour :/ sorry for stealing your beans and calling you old. If it is any consolation the beans gave me gas and I'm sure you're a total GILF

@Blood1991 said:

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991: Ive disliked him since creation.

Wow! How old are you?

You know.. reading old comics doesnt mean Im old..

**Runs to mirror and begins to inspect for wrinkles while sobbing**

I've made you cry twice in the last hour :/ sorry for stealing your beans and calling you old. If it is any consolation the beans gave me gas and I'm sure you're a total GILF

you young'uns and you're hip talk!

**goes to get cane**

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991: Ive disliked him since creation.

Wow! How old are you?

You know.. reading old comics doesnt mean Im old..

**Runs to mirror and begins to inspect for wrinkles while sobbing**

I've made you cry twice in the last hour :/ sorry for stealing your beans and calling you old. If it is any consolation the beans gave me gas and I'm sure you're a total GILF

you young'uns and you're hip talk!

**goes to get cane**

Oooh what are you going to do with that cane ;D

@Blood1991:

Point and nag like a good ol' lady ;P

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991:

Point and nag like a good ol' lady ;P

Not where I was going, but ok lol. I could use alittle nagging these days XD

@Blood1991: I don't want to go to jail. PG, kiddo. Im old, remember?

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991: I don't want to go to jail. PG, kiddo. Im old, remember?

I understand. No one will ever understand our love!

@Blood1991 said:

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991: I don't want to go to jail. PG, kiddo. Im old, remember?

I understand. No one will ever understand our love!

We'll always have our beans<3

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991: I don't want to go to jail. PG, kiddo. Im old, remember?

I understand. No one will ever understand our love!

We'll always have our beans<3

To our beans *cheers*

@Blood1991 said:

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Raiiyn said:

@Blood1991: I don't want to go to jail. PG, kiddo. Im old, remember?

I understand. No one will ever understand our love!

We'll always have our beans<3

To our beans *cheers*

**pom pom dances for fond memories**

@Raiiyn: Don't throw out your hip :D

@Blood1991: =(

I don't want to be old anymore

=(

@theTimeStreamer said:

@lorex: cap would have to be a moron to show up at the front door of a powerful nation alone and ask them to give up something very dear to them even though she is a threat to the planet. and seriously out of character. plus cyke had almost the whole mutant population behind him. so it evens out. but as i said before scott shot first.

well in hindsight the avengers were wrong to keep the phoenix from hope and cyke was right all along.

@samuel_larson_10: no he wasnt. without the avengers hope wouldve never been ready for PF. stop defending the douche. HE WAS WRONG!!

@theTimeStreamer said:

@samuel_larson_10: no he wasnt. without the avengers hope wouldve never been ready for PF. stop defending the douche. HE WAS WRONG!!

Hope ran away on her own. We never get the see what all Cyclops had in store for her training because of the Avengers invading Utopia. After all Rachel knew first hand that the Phoenix could be controlled. Which is why she sided with Cyclops over Wolverine, she probably could have provided the necessary instruction.

The Avengers don't really deserve any credit here. There initial plan was to destroy the Phoenix and keep hope locked up somewhere. After that blew up in their faces, they decided to go with the X-men plan.

@fullmetalquach said:

SPOILERS!

Since the beginning of AvX I've sided with the X-Men and Scott Summers, they're on the verge of extinction and the Phoenix Force could've changed that, however having seen him become the Dark Phoenix I have to admit that Hope probably wouldnt have been able to handle it, but as the Phoenix Five things were fine, the Avengers just kept poking them with a stick and when Scott said, "No more Avengers" I was a little upset that Marvel was taking the "The X-Men are now huge bad guys" route but a little excited to see them kick some Avenger ass, I was rooting for them in every battle, even in the AvX 11 battle I wanted Scott and Emma to come out on top, while now its too late to do any good for the world with the PF and its obviously unwise to let Cyclops remain the DP, I just cant help but think that the Avengers brought this on themselves and backed the Phoenix Five into a corner, thats why I still kinda want him to come out on top (obviously not gunna happen) AvX didnt make me hate Cyclops and I just hope that when he is dephoenixed that him and Emma dont regret too much of what they have done, I want them to show their conviction and know that they werent in the wrong and keep some major tension between them and the Avengers, they should have some guilt, but they should put more blame on the Avengers, so does anyone agree with me and what do you think should happen to Scott once thus crossover is done?

So I'm waaay late on this, haven't read the rest of the forum convo, (and honestly, havent even read the arc) but from what I've heard....I also still pull for Scott (despite the ending). As I said, I haven;t read it but I hate the way folks keep saying that Cap just kinda doesn't consider where the Xmen are coming from. In fact, the things I hear about his actions make him seem like he's just mad because his team isn't in control, etc. In other words, the one that I suppose Marvel is setting up as the hero sounds like a big jerk to me. I wouldn't mind this whole thing setting off a whole new Civil War in Marvel universe (humans vs mutants). that's probably already been done before. But it would entail Cyke continuing his role as the Protector of the Mutant race with the idea that "if you won't look out for our interests, I will." During his.... present downtime...he would be training an get powerful enough so that we can have an epic Cap/Cyke fight at the end of the arc (one fanboys wouldn't cry "foul" to if Scott were to win...hence the need for his training")

And magneto as one Scott's generals

@vernierhawk001: idk if you read the last issue or know about marvel NOW! but i dont think a human mutant war is set up, in uncanny avengers mutants will get a bad rep from the return of the red skull and thats all we know, but something that big wont happen for a while if it happens at all and cyclops is imprisoned and seems like hes ok with it for now, because while he seems happy for what he accomplished, he knows he has to pay for the crimes he committed as the phoenix and especially as the dark phoenix

@theTimeStreamer: @soduh2: honestly, in my opinion it seems like they were both wrong and both right, idk if you guys read AvX 12 yet so ill put a spoiler block on my explanation

the phoenix force did revive the mutant population and new mutants were sprouting up everywhere so in that aspect Scott was right, but i dont think that Hope wouldve been able to control the phoenix force if it wasnt for the iron fist training and after the emotional conflict she went through throughout the event with the phoenix passingg by her, so scott was right and the avengers were right, nbut i think their initial plan was just to get her off planet and wait and have other people try to sole the problem through science, so it seems like the phoenix five wouldve happened anyways even if the xmen gave up hope in the beginning, everything kinda worked itself out, but like scott said in the end of AvX 12, there first has to come destruction before rebirth

@fullmetalquach: i read it because i mentioned things that happened in it. everybody focuses on the end result but not how they got there. thats what pisses me off.

Still not siding with Scott the douchebag.

@theTimeStreamer: ya, a lot was lost and the avengers were detrimental in hope controlling the pf, but the two teams just didnt wanna cooperate and things just went downhill from there

@fullmetalquach:

Dude....Cyclops and Emma Frost ate a Steak seasoned with Human Blood.....

@theTimeStreamer said:

@fullmetalquach: i read it because i mentioned things that happened in it. everybody focuses on the end result but not how they got there. thats what pisses me off.

If you focus on "how they got there" it looks worse for the Avengers.

@fullmetalquach said:

@theTimeStreamer: @soduh2: honestly, in my opinion it seems like they were both wrong and both right, idk if you guys read AvX 12 yet so ill put a spoiler block on my explanation

the phoenix force did revive the mutant population and new mutants were sprouting up everywhere so in that aspect Scott was right, but i dont think that Hope wouldve been able to control the phoenix force if it wasnt for the iron fist training and after the emotional conflict she went through throughout the event with the phoenix passingg by her, so scott was right and the avengers were right, nbut i think their initial plan was just to get her off planet and wait and have other people try to sole the problem through science, so it seems like the phoenix five wouldve happened anyways even if the xmen gave up hope in the beginning, everything kinda worked itself out, but like scott said in the end of AvX 12, there first has to come destruction before rebirth

The Avengers had more time (and arguably more research) to prepare Hope. We really don't get to see what all the X-men had in store for Hope because first Captain America invaded (regardless if Cyclops shot first Cap, "wasn't asking") and then Hope ran away during that first fight. If the battle never happened you would have had 5 issues with the X-men finding different ways to prepare Hope.

It's almost like the X-men drew the outline or prompt for an essay and the Avengers filled out the details.

The reason why the X-men still win is because after Hope sided with the Avengers it wasn't until the last minute that they decided to actually use her (even after the Iron Fist training). Besides, they weren't even considering for Hope to use the Phoenix force, they were going to use Hope to fix there own "Phoenix 5" mistake. When Hope finally got the Phoenix force the Avengers really didn't know what to do, even though they prepared her by proxy.

@Sufferthorn said:

@fullmetalquach:

Dude....Cyclops and Emma Frost ate a Steak seasoned with Human Blood.....

After having 1/2 of the phoenix force and being gradually pushed and prodded by the Avengers.

I don't see how you could choose anyone BUT Cyclops to side with. Captain America was wrong about pretty much EVERYTHING in this event. Neither he, or any of the Avengers know anything about the Phoenix, outside of what Wolverine tells them. Apparently Wolverine left out of the part where if you mentally push and prod a Phoenix host, they're going to lash out (I guess Xavier forgot this too). Cable told Scott specifically, that the ONLY way for the world to be saved, and mutantkind to be restored, is for Hope to become the Phoenix; and for him to keep her away from the Avengers. It was also implied that she would be able to control it, as long as she was with her Five Lights. There was more than enough evidence throughout continuity that specifically tells us that it's not the Phoenix that corrupts you.

On top of this, the main thing that Captain America 'defenders' have is "Well they trained her!"... Well, not really. She had been trained by Cable, someone who is basically one of the heads of a religion that is founded solely around the Phoenix Force. It's safe to say he knows much more about the Phoenix than anyone else, save Rachel. And speaking of Rachel, she was also with Scott; she was the Phoenix for nearly a decade, and it never corrupted her, ever.

The sad part is, Uncanny X-Men delivered a better ending to AvX than the actual event itself. Gillen's ending was perfect. It showed you exactly what Scott was intended to end up as; the mutant messiah. And it really delivers that message. Are there going to be consequences for the X-Gene being reactivated? Sure. But this is the natural order of things. It was the will of God that sent the Phoenix to Hope/Earth to restart mutants, something that was also touched upon in Uncanny.

Regardless, this entire event was full of horrible writing and awful character developments; like Scarlet Witch somehow being more powerful than a Phoenix host, or her and Hope 'wishing' the Phoenix away. I'll never forget Iceman telling Xavier that he loves Scott, and he's his brother; only for him to tell Scott that everyone is sick of him and he hates him like 5 pages later.

@Sufferthorn: no they didnt, they were in the astral plain, emma took the memories from people throughout the world and used those memories of what people ate to have a steak dinner with scott in the astral plain, if you pay attention to the dialogue you'll realize it, she says that she got the steak from a vagrant who stole it from a nice restaurant and wolfed it down while running, and the memory for the blood sauce was from a cannibal

@soduh2: i agree, the X-Men's final goal was realized and so they won and the two opposing teams helped each other out without even realizing it

<---- Count me with Scott

@fullmetalquach said:

@Sufferthorn: no they didnt, they were in the astral plain, emma took the memories from people throughout the world and used those memories of what people ate to have a steak dinner with scott in the astral plain, if you pay attention to the dialogue you'll realize it, she says that she got the steak from a vagrant who stole it from a nice restaurant and wolfed it down while running, and the memory for the blood sauce was from a cannibal

That does not justify it by any means.

@Sufferthorn: But Doctor Doom claiming it was his fault for Wanda murdering thousands and thousands of mutants is okay?

@Sufferthorn: you make it seem like they killed some person and actually used his blood as sauce in the physical world, obviously they harmed people as the Phoenix 5, but experiencing somebody else's memory is a lot different than murdering somebody for the sole purpose of eating them, im not saying what they did wasnt disgusting or weird, but its definitely not a good enough reason to try and prove that theyre deranged or cant be trusted

@fullmetalquach:

If you don't think it proves they're deranged......or if you would trust them......then have fun siding with cyke. There's a moral line they crossed in MY little ethical world

@Sufferthorn: that decision wouldnt make me not trust them, more of the corruption because of the phoenix force, but that decision to have that memory and experience the taste without actually having it in the physical world isnt enough for me to distrust them, so i will have fun

There is sometimes a difference between what a company intends its audience to think and what they end up actually thinking. Iron Man honestly was intended by Marvel to be the hero of Civil War. That did not turn out to be the general consensus of its readership (nor a number of the writers of the tie-ins, to be fair). No doubt Marvel intended Cyclops to be the villain of the piece, but since he did turn out to be right (and Captain America acted like such a self-righteous jerk) that no wonder there are people are on Scott's side. Not that a whole lot of bad stuff didn't go down, but in the end he was the tragic hero who sacrificed everything for his people.

Scott didn't ask for the PF (we can thank the Avengers and their Phoenix gun for that), and from the moment he was possessed by it I'd say he wasn't fully himself. It's fair to hold Scott responsible for whatever happened up the the creation of the P5, but after that how much blame he should shoulder is debatable, IMO. Even if he wasn't Dark Phoenix yet, a power like that inside someone who wasn't meant to have it had to have affected his mind. Still, he and the other P5 tried to make the world a better place before slipping into inevitable madness. The usual status quo is that characters possessed or brainwashed are generally absolved of wrongdoing, but apparently they've decided to make an exception this time. Doesn't seem particularly fair. Still Scott said he'd take full responsibility for his actions, and the actions of the other P5 if they'd let him, like the true leader that he is.

Besides, this whole mess started because Cap showed up in Utopia in issue #1 and said the Avengers were taking Hope, no negotiation:

Captain America: "You do understand I wasn't asking." Yeah, Steve pretty much threw down the gauntlet there.

Cyclops: "I understood that completely." Scott might have struck the first blow, but as I said, it was Steve who threw down the gauntlet.

It's hardly unexpected that Scott wouldn't respond positively to an ultimatum (after all, Cap didn't respond well to the Registration ultimatum in the Civil War event, did he?). Seriously, Captain America's characterization was just horrible in this story. His attempt to shame and berate an imprisoned Scott was just pathetic.

We should also remember that Scott has a piece of the Void inside his mind, I believe he also has a piece of Apocalypse on top of this. His newly added cosmic embodiment of Life and Death wasn't exactly a big help. He however, stayed true to himself for the majority of the event. He never showed signs of corruption until the final battle with the Avengers, in which he was mentally pushed to that point. Even throughout Uncanny X-Men 19, Scotts inner monologue tells us that he isn't 100% gone, that he is still in there. His astral date with Emma is 100% irrelevant; Scott clearly showed disgust when she told him what it was, he was also visibly upset after he was forced to kill Xavier. His humanity was obviously not lost. We don't even know if Phoenix Hosts need to eat, or if they possess the ability to self-sustain, it's safe to assume they do. As long as Scott thought it, it could have tasted however he wanted.

It's really no surprise that Emma, Namor, Colossus and Magik were unable to handle it, especially Namor/Emma/Magik. Colossus was a Phoenix Host as well as a Cyttorak Avatar, we shouldn't have expected him to be that "aware" from the get-go, yet he was the least threatening of the Phoenix Five.. Namor destroyed Wakanda because he was manipulated by Emma, and let's face it; he's a proud king, it's not like he would have ever been commanded or lead by Scott. Magik is insane, and has always been out of her mind. Emma is...Emma, she has always made questionable calls and always had that sort of 'villain' mentality.