Cyclops was right!

#101 Posted by 80sBaby (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@trutrutru: No, I'd say both sides were acting irresponsibly. That was the point of the series.

The "best" thing would've been both teams working together from the beginning but, considering their respective POVs, I can understand why that didn't happen.

#102 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15329 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sBaby: It was Bendis' attemopt to pull a Moore and he failed.

#103 Posted by 80sBaby (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@80sBaby: It was Bendis' attemopt to pull a Moore and he failed.

I don't think AvX was meant to be deep on any level (especially Moore's) really. It was pretty straight-forward.

And Bendis wasn't the only writer involved with the event, was he? I wonder why he gets all the blame?

#104 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15329 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sBaby: yeah but the ending kind of was.

Watchmen's ending: kill a billion to save the world or let the world go to war and possibly cause mass destruction.

AVX's ending: kill your mentor and all that opose to save mutant kind or let mutant kind die.

#105 Posted by 80sBaby (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: Gotcha. But that was probably more coincidence than purposely done.

#106 Edited by trutrutru (51 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sBaby said:

@trutrutru: No, I'd say both sides were acting irresponsibly. That was the point of the series.

The "best" thing would've been both teams working together from the beginning but, considering their respective POVs, I can understand why that didn't happen.

i do agree that they should have worked together from jump....having input from both sides with equal weight and importance to what both sides would be offering in terms of possible solutions.

i just cant agree with the rest of your response....when we talk about why they could not work together from the beginning and how it is because of their respective POV

...i consider the POV of the Avengers to be uninformed. All past interactions, and even what was present information about the Phoenix's arrival suggests that it was

- very unlikely the Phoenix was coming to harm the earth

- and that creating a scenario which exposes the earth to the same form the Phoenix had been unintentionally destroying planets on its way in, is exponentially more dangerous than whatever cyclops had in mind (which was to continue to train Hope till the Phoenix's arrival)

- Hosting the Phoenix has never resulted in an automatic transformation into the Dark Phoenix..it takes a lot for that to happen

therefore...any action taken by the Avengers is deemed unwarranted, as there was no disaster or danger approaching the earth.

There is a difference between making a bad decision that has disastrous consequences....and being put in a position where your damned if you do and damned if you dont. The x-men were "victims" of the latter. With that first part being attributed to the Avengers.

#107 Posted by God_Spawn (39434 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sBaby:

And Bendis wasn't the only writer involved with the event, was he? I wonder why he gets all the blame?

He was indeed not the only writer. Brubaker, Fraction, Hickman and Aaron all wrote for the series. And it is the cool thing to hate Bendis. Yeah, he has done some nasty things in comicdom but he has also wrote some great stories and I think is doing pretty well so far on All New X-Men. And while the event was terribly written, if you ask me, Bendis arguably wrote the best issues in the series. His Avengers tie ins were pretty good and save for the first issue (which was garbage) AvX 8 and 11 were solid IMO. I enjoyed watching Namor destroy the Avengers and issue 11 wasn't too bad either.

Moderator
#108 Posted by spetsnaz_gru (236 posts) - - Show Bio

Bendis is still not as bad as Queasada. :D

#109 Posted by God_Spawn (39434 posts) - - Show Bio

@spetsnaz_gru: Rickybarry?

Moderator
#110 Posted by lykopis (10868 posts) - - Show Bio

This entire event was strange. All of it. I expect the same to continue. As for hating on Bendis being cool? Yes -- bandwagon and all that, not that this writer hasn't been known to decimate characters he's gotten his hands on for the sake of the story he wants told. He is a writer that throws away character development - completely throws away characters - this is shown. It's already started. Qu'elle surprise.

More and more out of character dialogue - more and more nonsensical power-ups/down's whatever. The story isn't even clear yet -- all I see are characters with well-established back-stories being tweaked here and there to accommodate what Bendis has planned (whatever it is). I expected as much -- I am good.

#111 Posted by spetsnaz_gru (236 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I didn't get it. I'm dumb dumb.

#112 Posted by God_Spawn (39434 posts) - - Show Bio

@spetsnaz_gru: It was my bad. I just thought you were someone's alt.

Moderator
#113 Posted by loki100 (12 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sBaby: @80sBaby said:

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@80sBaby: It was Bendis' attemopt to pull a Moore and he failed.

I don't think AvX was meant to be deep on any level (especially Moore's) really. It was pretty straight-forward.

And Bendis wasn't the only writer involved with the event, was he? I wonder why he gets all the blame?

Uhh... the X-men weren't acting irresponsibly. They have had at least a full decade in comic time of dealing with the Phoenix, including having freakin' Rachel Gray, former Phoenix host, on the team. Including Emma Frost and the Cuckoos, former hosts. Rachel Gray alone negates virtually all the concerns that the Avengers had, simply by existing. The tie in issues with Rachel Gray were basically unreadable as the writer himself couldn't figure out how to make Avengers vs. X-men make sense in a world where Rachel Gray existed. The X-men also have the benefit of Cable outright telling them what they were doing was correct. You know Cable, the time traveler. The guy who was raised 1,000 years into the future and was guarding Hope and putting her on the correct path to be the mutant savior. The X-men were doing exactly what they should have been doing, preparing Hope for hosting the force. Also Wolverine is an idiot who thought killing Hope was somehow a sensible plan even though the Phoenix Force has resurrected people from the dead right in front of him on multiple occasions.

The Avengers were acting irresponsibly. Utterly irresponsible. They had no experience with the Phoenix, and no actual plan. They never bothered to consult anyone other than Beast and Wolverine, two characters with almost no experience with the Phoenix, over Cyclops or one of the actual hosts. And in their complete irresponsibility they invaded a sovereign nation and took almost the entire population the world's most minority prisoner.

No, there are no two sides to AvX, unless you simply accept the story telling you there is. There is only the X-Men being right and decent, and the Avengers descending into being vile super-villains. Cyclops was utterly right, and Cap is a morally corrupt scumbag.

#114 Posted by havoc1201 (568 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the Avengers should have stayed out of Mutant affairs. Whenever the Mutant race is in trouble or genoside is happening where are all the other Marvel heros? Nowhere to be seen but then when something happens like the Phoenix returning they are all over it giving orders and demanding things, Scott was right this was a Mutant issue not the Avengers and where does captain America get off tell Cyclops what is right wasnt he the leader of the rebels in civil war the side that didnt want to follow the law bc it want agaisnt freedom well how about the right for Homo Superior to survive as a species? i guess when it comes down to it all the rest of the Marvel universe cares about is their species. Cyclops did what he had to do to ensure his species survives because no one else gave a sh!!. Sorry for the rant lol

#115 Posted by TheCrowbar (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

Get.Over.It.

AvX was a universe reboot. Deal with it.

#116 Posted by One_Eye (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

Get.Over.It.

AvX was a universe reboot. Deal with it.

Indeed.

#117 Posted by jokerjester_campos (6 posts) - - Show Bio

From my DA:

http://jokerjester-campos.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5k64vu and http://jokerjester-campos.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d5r7m4n

#118 Posted by Target_X (381 posts) - - Show Bio

He was so right it hurts!

I rawk the t-shirt!
#119 Posted by dangallant984 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

When people say "Cyclops is right!" ,all I hear is, "he made the thing happen that he was trying to make happen!"

which I guess he sort of did in the end. So, in that way, he was right.

But, did he have the right to make that decision?

I personally don't think so. That's not to say that I don't see why he did, or that I don't like him, but he played a very dangerous game with everyone's life on the line, and I don't think that decision was his to make.

#120 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (5034 posts) - - Show Bio

forget about cyclops was right or cyclops is wrong....also if captain america was right or captain america was wrong....its all about Deadpool being right and breaking the fourth wall:

#121 Posted by x_29 (2375 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops won AvX

#122 Edited by LaryKing (340 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok,i'd like to end this one for all.First:Cyclops and PF could control the phoenix cuz it was only parts of it,not the whole phoenix,which means they could easily control it,and we saw that during the beggining of it.SECOND:captain america accused cyclops for starting a war and turning friend against friend.TWO WORDS.CIVIL F*CKIN' WAR.Goliath died in there and cap was the one who started it,without being possesed by an alien force at the time.Third:If the avengers weren't such pussie's and let P5 on their own,none of this woulda happened.But they had to get in there and fuck everything up.FOURTH:Explain me something,wolverine and the scarlet witch are mutants,how can they be with the avengers;(NICE MUTANTS).Logan left the xmen cuz he knew he couldn't take the lead as long as scott was there and returned just after scott left to lead themWELL,FUCK U WOLVERINE!!!.IF CAP AND LOGAN DIDN'T GOT IN SCOTTS WAY,NONE OF THEM WOULDA HAPPEN,.wanna know why this all happened;cuz the avengers couldn't stand seeing mutants deciding their own fate or saving the world and gaining the reputation of erath's mightest heroes;CUZ THEIR A BUNCH OF ARROGANT A**HOLES! CYCLOPS WAS RIGHT!

#123 Posted by EternalGrandMaster (255 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops is and Was Right.

1st-Wolverine back stabbed Cyclops, Xmen & Mutant Race; He furthered increased The Avnegers Fear of the Pheonix and he wanted to Kill Hope

2nd-Cap instead of asking for a sit down showed up To Utopia, the mutants homeland, Xmen base, Cyclops Front lawn with an army.

3rd-Cyclops started the fight but he was justified. The Avengers showed up full force to detain a teenage mutant who was the messiah of the Mutant race...

4th-Tony Stark shattered the Pheonix, he created the P5...The P5 didn't attack the Avengers with their powers, they better'd the world worst thing they did was disarm the world of armed munitions.

5th- Non-provoked & again lack of diplomacy they attack the P5 again and try to kidnap Hope this time...This leads to AvsX..Which the xmen only detained & didn't kill them

6-Wolvie is a Benedict Arnold and extreme hypocrite...Cap is an American Govie A.hole who believse he's the prime authority of te world....Cyclops Was gambling too much with dangerous forces, circumstances crippled him from using the right resources to enable the Best outcome

7..Pro.X & his dream are childish...Cyclops & Magneto's Leadership are more ideal for Mutants

#124 Posted by HeavenlyDarkDragon (710 posts) - - Show Bio

Scott to me wasn't right or wrong. He simply had to pay the price for the errors others made.

When those egg heads Tony Stark and Reed Richards created that blasted machine, they sealed the entire world fate with it. Had they let events happen naturally most probably no one would have died. But noooo... The phoenix is coming, lets blow her up.

If Jean and Rachael that were both powerful psychics never got around to master the power of the phoenix and not be corrupted by it, how did they expect Scott and the other three could handle it for long. In fact the simple matter that they didn't went shit crazy and blown the planet to pieces the moment they got portions of the Phoenix, was a miracle by itself.

And the way they painted Scott has the bad guy (and still do). What about the Scarlet Witch and her role in the almost extinction of the entire mutant race?! What about all the destruction and death Magneto brought upon?! Does that simply slide under the rug?! When it was known that the Scarlet Witch said the words that caused so much suffering, shouldn't the Avengers, The Fantastic Four, Shield and most of all the mutants that were still left had the right to say "Kill her! We want her head in a silver plater." But they didn't. It was all good. Live and let live, and all that stuff.

But now we have Scott. The man that paid the highest price for other people mistakes, and what do they do... They treat him has a common criminal. No live and let live. No second chances. No looking in the mirror and saying "We're equally to blame. If not more."

Scott was broken by the a power that he never wanted, nor did he asked for it. But where there was no hope, hope was born again has new mutants started to appear everywhere. And he knew what that meant. We're talking about a guy that for decades has been fighting for a place in his own world. He fought to be accepted, but never was. He fought for respect, but never was given any. He fought for a voice, and people told him to shut up. Now he says "No more debates. No more asking. No more having our fate in the hands of those that did us more wrong." and the whole world turns against him.

Even those that should have been by his side, or at least tried to help him heal, like Ororo, Henry, Logan, Kitty, and Bobby... They all started pointing fingers, and riding the high moral train like they own it. They are the villains in all of this. They are the Judas and Peter of their kind. They are both betrayers and weaklings.

Scott I believe still has a long role to play in future events, and if anything, the Phoenix has shown us that everyone it touches at one time or another they become more than they were before. And seeing that Scott got to be the Phoenix even if only for a brief period, it might have been enough to have left something of itself behind, and in time the Phoenix will return from its ashes and rise again. And Scott might be the ashes from where it is reborn.

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