Cyclops was right!

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#1 Posted by Squalleon (4745 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, he was.Hope was meant to control (briefly) the phoinix and the mutant race has been reborn.

Suck that Captain America and Wolverine,if you would let Cyclops handle this there would not been a single death!

#2 Edited by GothamRed (2564 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squalleon: You can't guarantee that, for all we know the phoenix would have only gone to Hope after some other, possible worse event took place. The end result may have leaned in Scott's favor, but there's no way of telling whether or not anyone would have been killed, or that if she was given the power, if Hope would have been able to use it the way they wanted her to unless things were, for lack of a better term, hopeless. So Cyclops wasn't really in the right the whole way through this, he just got lucky that things happened to go his way in the end and that no one can say whether or not something worse would have happened if he was allowed to do his plan undeterred.

#4 Posted by Aero_gt (840 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok I'm off my Cyclops high and back to earth. I won't be annoying about my fandom now. Cyclop's plan was indeed right, but the way he was training Hope, she may have went evil,but after the aid of Iron fist and Wanda she was better trained to control the Phoenix. If the avengers never brought war to the X-men the earth probably would have been destroyed. I also could believed if Cyclops and Cap worked together to train Hope in the beginning all would be well. Scott had the idea, but not the means and Steve had the means ,but not the idea. Hope also seeing how Scott and the other four were turned evil thanks to the Avengers and somewhat their background as former villians or not so nice guys, gave Hope a way to use the Phoenix right. Scott is right merely by his idea as Phoenix he has better control than nearly any other phoenix host barring maybe Rachel and Hope respectively, and had he had his way he would most likely end up having to fight the other host because they were so easily corrupted. Cudos on his Dr.Manhattan like monologue in UXM19.

#5 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

@GothamRed: I agree. There's really no telling what would have happened. I mean, do we even need to mention that the Phoenix destroyed a planet in the very beginning of the series on the way to Earth?

With the history that the Marvel U has had with this force/entity/whatever how can anyone be blamed for thinking its arrival is bad news?

#6 Posted by GothamRed (2564 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: Yes, but you just said that Hope was having trouble controlling the power, the power that came to her the same day as the avengers attack and would have come that day regardless of whether the avengers interfered or not.

How much extra training would she have gotten that day that would have made her anymore prepared than she actually was?

To be honost it just seems like they made Cyclops right at the end as an attempt by the writers or editors of the story to not have him come off as a completely awful person, even though that's how his been acting recently regardless of whether or not he lucked into a win at the end.

#8 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

At the end of the day inspite of AVX events Cyclops will end up shinning, cause he is the heart of the Xmen.

#9 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by GothamRed (2564 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: You make it sound like months past between the start of the story and when she made it to the moon, at most it would have given her maybe a few extra days based on how the story progressed, the time frame of this story was a bit confusing about how long this took place, that isn't enough time to give her enough training to fair well enough against it. Also if they were going to have rachel train her, wouldn't they have insisted she stay in Utopia instead of being on the opposite side of the continent.

Even if you argue that they could easily contact and get her to help, that doesn't answer the question of if they were training her to do this, why would they let the person best suited to do so leave. It's just one of many bad decisions made on both sides in this and it doesn't really help Scott's case for having the Avengers blindly trust his choice here.

Also like Crash_Recovery said, you can't blame the Avengers for seeing the Phoenix force as a threat. Not only has it been so in the past, but just in this special and it's tie-ins it destroyed multiple planets on it's way to earth. Why would they just assume that the Phoenix wouldn't be a threat with that information?

So I'm standing by the decision to make Scott right in the end being a ploy by the story team to attempt to redeem his actions taken in the story to try to make the readers not see him as the flat-out villain he acted like through most of the story. It's the same thing that happened in Civil War, where in most of the main story and tie-ins the Pro side were the more villainous force, but then they won and Marvel came out an said that they were supposed to be seen as the correct side.

For some reason Marvel loves to have the side that does the most evil in the story be right. Maybe that's just the company's philosophy, who knows?\

That's how I see it anyway.

#12 Edited by GothamRed (2564 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: I did say there were poor decisions on both sides.

Honestly if that was the case this story was executed poorly, since neither was ideologically wrong, it was save the earth vs save the mutant race. Had they built it more toward's Scott's favor in the story itself and not just in it's conclusion, it'd be a different story.

Like having the story focus on Scott solely, instead of splitting the focus between, him, hope, wolverine, cap, and the people fighting on either side. Show him desperately trying to get people to believe him even when the facts stack up against him then being vindicated at the end by having his faith in his cause pay off.

That happened a bit, but not in anyway that would have you sympathize with Scott, since he lashed out against anyone who opposed him, since he is the one who fired the first shot, and then seizing power and removing any resistance to the point that not even the X-Men were on his side. He never came off as someone who the audience to get behind, he was somewhere between cult leader and dictator most of the time, and if the intention was to always have him be right, that really had to happen at some point.

#13 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

How did Cyclops and the X-Men win ideologically?

They had no evidence of the Phoenix's motivations but were willing to risk an entire planet on a selfish whim.

Even if they knew for certain what the Phoenix would do, they still killed countless civilians and their founder to pursue that goal.

Did Charles Xavier approve of what happened?

Would Jean Gray have?

#15 Edited by GothamRed (2564 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@GothamRed said:

@ApatheticAvenger: I did say there were poor decisions on both sides.

Honestly if that was the case this story was executed poorly, since neither was ideologically wrong, it was save the earth vs save the mutant race. Had they built it more toward's Scott's favor in the story itself and not just in it's conclusion, it'd be a different story.

Like having the story focus on Scott solely, instead of splitting the focus between, him, hope, wolverine, cap, and the people fighting on either side. Show himself desperately trying to get people to believe him even when the facts stack up against him then being vindicated at the end by having his faith in his cause pay off.

That happened a bit, but not in anyway that would have you sympathize with Scott, since he lashed out against anyone who opposed him, since he is the one who fired the first shot, and then seizing power and removing any resistance to the point that not even the X-Men were on his side. He never came off as someone who the audience to get behind, he was somewhere between cult leader and dictator most of the time, and if the intention was to always have him be right, that really had to happen at some point.

That must be why so many fans stuck by his side through the event and why there is talk of "Free Cyclops" and "Cyclops Was Right" t-shirts (even Uncanny X-Men Kieron Gillen tweeted about it). :P

Okay maybe I should have said SHOULD get behind. Obviously X-Men fans were going to side with the X-Men regardless of events of the story, even before they happen, and vice versa for the Avengers. There's always going to be a counter to every point, I'm just saying that aside from liking Scott beforehand, and writing for it since Uncanny X-Men is Scott's book I don't see how Gillen wouldn't side with him, none of his actions in the story justify the defense of him aside from the ending.

But just to end the point, would so many people come out in support of Scott if the story had ended differently? Nothing else changed in the story but how the final issue ended. Sure he'd still have his diehard fans supporting him, who wouldn't? I'm just focusing on the point of the conclusion somewhat contradicting the story's actions.

#17 Posted by GothamRed (2564 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: I guess, I like cap doing more for mutants, cause he is the kind of guy who will make up for his mistakes if they're pointed out to him. For now though, we need some time without Scott, he does need to repent for how he handled the situation, even if he was technically on the right side.

But yeah it does come down to issues with the writing of the story. Like I said his story arc was just handled poorly. It could have been done well, it just wasn't.

#18 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squalleon: How the hell were the X-Men and the Avengers supposed to know what the Phoenix would do? The cosmic entity with a track record for destruction that blew up a planet on the way to Earth. They risked 7 billion lives to restore the mutant race. An unacceptable decision and Cyclops is getting what he deserved. And how is it possible to get behind someone who acted like a cult leader and dictator in this entire event?

@ApatheticAvenger: Please explain how risking the lives of 7 billion people on a gamble that the Phoenix will end up restoring the mutant race counts as an ideological win.

#20 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: The first part of your argument is true. However, the end result was still uncertain given that Cyclops was prioritising the few over the many. Would you want to die so that a few more of a species existed? That's what could have happened. The PF is known for causing massive destruction and gambling with the fate of the world is even worse and riskier than gambling your life savings. It was a stupid gamble and only paid off because the way the event was written. Not an ideological win at all, not when you consider what Cyclops did in AvX.

#22 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Men (film, 2000) - Magneto constructs a machine to mutate civilians. Bad.

AVX (comic, 2012) - Cyclops uses the Phoenix force to mutate civilians. Good.

Just checking.

#23 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger: The part "he may wish he had died instead, but when he says he would do it all again because the end result was worth then you have to accept that to him (and those who will undoubtedly come to support him) there is a win" reminded me of a program on the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki where they had some guy, maybe a historian or a supporter of the bombing decision and a survivor of the bombing. In it, the guy argues that without the bombing, WW2 would never have come to an end amongst other points. And the survivor turns round to him and says "Even in war there are some things we should not do." The immeasurable destruction the Phoenix could have caused and has a track record of doing so by itself and with hosts should have been enough for Cyclops to think about this rationally. What good's a mutant race without a planet to live on?

#24 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34372 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: nice

#25 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3876 posts) - - Show Bio

scott may be right but hes still a villian/murderer.......RIP Xavier

#26 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3876 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Posted by StMichalofWilson (4017 posts) - - Show Bio

Scott saved the mutant race, but in the end, he has forsaken his most trusted X-Men. Plus he killed a man who was a father to him. Scott was right in the end;

But at what cost?

#28 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3876 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Posted by Lion_Heart22 (446 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting. Cap and Stark sure are the top-names that come to mind when thinking who should punish and incarcerate Cyclops, especially how both of them got-off completely like a pair of Karma Houdinis from bringing the country to war based on their personal ideologies. Yet Cap dies and everything is forgotten. He should be regarded as the worst kind of terrorist (or realistically, he would be) for what he did. And Stark? He got, what? A telling off by his friends and a wrist-slap by Thor when he came back and that was it.

Cyclops was RIGHT. All along. If the Avengers hadn't interfered, the Phoenix would've reached Hope and it would've restored the mutant race, no fuzz. IF the Avengers were concerned they should have approached the X-Men peacefully and tried to talk things out. What did they do instead? They flew a metahuman-packed Hellicarrier into the flight space of a sovereign state without permission or even so much as a declaration of intentions. And they DEMANDED Utopia to hand over one of it's citizens, just like that. And why? Because Wolverine, the reputed cold-blooded killer who spent decades trying to have sex with Scott's wife told them that was the only way to do it. Right. Then he tried to kill Hope the minute he had the chance. What they did... It is an act of war. If Russia moved it's navy right to the coast of the U.S, would the U.S be wrong to take it as an act of war and retaliate?

Every bad thing that happened in this act is the Avengers' responsibility. They attacked the X-Men, they attacked the Phoenix and split it into Five hosts who weren't mentally ready to hold that kind of power. Hope, even pre-Spidey, pre-Iron Fist and pre-Wanda, she was ready, she was born to do this, she is the Chosen One and she fulfilled her destiny.

So yeah, Scott was in the right in the beginning. It's not a matter of what could've happened, its a matter of what did happen, and what did happen was Hope was able to control the Phoenix and bring back mutants, like Scott said she would. When the Avengers messed that up, he did what he thought best (fixing many things that were wrong with the world) under the circumstances, which weren't ideal. That's what Cyclops is, he is the man who will make the choice nobody else has the guts to make. It doesn't matter if it makes everybody hate him, because he can take it. He doesn't care about how he looks to you, he cares about doing good and he cares about the well being of his race. He has to, because in spite of the fact that the mutants were ont he brink of Extinction, nobody else even lifted a finger to try and fix it. And sure, his actions were tainted by the Dark Phoenix, but, as I said, that's on the Avengers heads, Scott alone shouldn't be held accountable as he was possessed.

So yeah, Scott was right and Cap and Stark behaved rather like hypocritical douches, which is a damn shame, since I love Cap.

Oh and Also, I particularly loved Reed putting Cap and IM in their places. You listen to what the world's smartest man has to say about this. When Reed has to tell you you're kinda being a jerk, you know something's wrong.

#32 Posted by slimlim (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@Crash_Recovery said:

X-Men (film, 2000) - Magneto constructs a machine to mutate civilians. Bad.

AVX (comic, 2012) - Cyclops uses the Phoenix force to mutate civilians. Good.

Just checking.

I may be mistaken because it wasn't made clear, but i believe the Mutant Gene was reactivated in those that lost it rather than random people.

Thats my guess anyway.

#33 Posted by sonny1 (55 posts) - - Show Bio

If not for Scarlet witch Hope would have not known that she was chosen because she was the only one that would have been able to give up the Phoenix force and with the Scarlet witches help bring back the mutants. So no Scott wasn't right he needlessly started the fight between the X-men and the Avengers and cost countless deaths including professor X. Scott didn't know what he was doing.

#34 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

Professor X ain't dead. This is comics we're talkin about. People don't stay dead too long. The way western comics deal with resurrection is even worse than DBZ!

#35 Posted by slimlim (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@sonny1 said:

If not for Scarlet witch Hope would have not known that she was chosen because she was the only one that would have been able to give up the Phoenix force and with the Scarlet witches help bring back the mutants. So no Scott wasn't right he needlessly started the fight between the X-men and the Avengers and cost countless deaths including professor X. Scott didn't know what he was doing.

Cyclops was right because the Phoenix force was used to restore the mutant race. Whether or not Scarlet Witch had a hand in convincing Hope is besides the point. She could have done so without Captain America and the Avengers storming into Utopia and attempting to destroy the Phoenix force.

Cyclops was right. Avengers were wrong.

But the Avengers movie made an obscene amount of money at the box office. So Scott is labelled a villain and goes to jail.

#36 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15123 posts) - - Show Bio

No he was not. CA was right.

#37 Posted by Squalleon (4745 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler said:

awesome!

#38 Posted by Lapsus (26 posts) - - Show Bio

Like i said in the x-men topic

I will need for information about this, if this force only affect former mutants OK

But if this affect normal people, again, sound like the same mistake did in House of M but inverted

#39 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler said:

this picture says it ALL!!!!!!

TAKE THAT AVENGERS!!!!!!!!!!

#40 Posted by aaunderoath (165 posts) - - Show Bio

Not only was Scott right but he was also fixing every problem on Earth using the Phoenix Force. It wasn't until the Avengers poked him that the Phoenix Five started to lose it. Also it really bothers me that everyone blames Cyclops for the things Emma, Namor, Magik, and Colossus were doing BEHIND his back. So there's that, he also didn't just murder Xavier, he asked him 5 times to get out of his head, Xavier essentially threatened to lobotomize him right then in there.

Secondly I'd like to point out in Avengers Disassembled AND House of M Scarlet Witch destroyed more lives and FORCED heroes to kill each other(she-hulk beat the crap out of the Avengers and ripped Vision in half, Scott Lang and the mansion got blown up, Tony was "drunk" in front of the UN, and Hawkeye sacrificed himself to save other because of a fake kree invasion), but for her she's treated like "no guys it's ok she didn't know what she was doing" but the Phoenix taking complete control over Scott's mind was bad news bears .... ಠ_ಠ ... seriously??

#41 Posted by trutrutru (51 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree. There's really no telling what would have happened. I mean, do we even need to mention that the Phoenix destroyed a planet in the very beginning of the series on the way to Earth?

With the history that the Marvel U has had with this force/entity/whatever how can anyone be blamed for thinking its arrival is bad news?

@Crash_Recovery:

- when has the phoenix ever come to earth for the purpose of destroying it? it shares a link with the mutant race on earth. If it was ever its intention to destroy the earth, the earth would have been destroyed a long time ago. Of all the times the phoenix has arrived, when has it come for the purpose of destroying the earth? never.

- avengers should have given cyclops the chance to handle this hand in hand with the avengers as equals. Had they let Hope host the phoenix, Tony stark and others could have figured out how to use it to activate the x-gene. They told him they were taking Hope the easy way or the hard way and that was that. Cyclop's hand was forced.

- someone hosting the phoenix doesnt automatically equal Dark phoenix. I doubt that has ever happened. Both Jean grey and Rachel grey hosted the phoenix just fine, with jean grey only going dark due to mastermind's manipulations. Hosting the Phoenix does not equal disaster because it has never automatically turned the host into Dark phoenix.

- On the moon Hope felt like she may not be able to handle the Phoenix. But we all know how much personal stability can affect the phoenix and its host. Had the avengers not waged war on utopia, Hope may have been in a better state of mind to have taken the phoenix on more confidently. The last thing anyone should do is stress out the host of the Phoenix with an all out war being waged around and because of them.

#42 Posted by fullmetalquach (94 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squalleon: ya he was! im happy about that, but you cant forget the hand the avengers played, i dont think hope wouldve been able to control the phoenix if not for the iron fist training and if it wasnt for wanda i dont think she wouldve released the phoenix, they were both right and they both needed eachother

#43 Edited by sonny1 (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimlim said:

@sonny1 said:

If not for Scarlet witch Hope would have not known that she was chosen because she was the only one that would have been able to give up the Phoenix force and with the Scarlet witches help bring back the mutants. So no Scott wasn't right he needlessly started the fight between the X-men and the Avengers and cost countless deaths including professor X. Scott didn't know what he was doing.

Cyclops was right because the Phoenix force was used to restore the mutant race. Whether or not Scarlet Witch had a hand in convincing Hope is besides the point. She could have done so without Captain America and the Avengers storming into Utopia and attempting to destroy the Phoenix force.

Cyclops was right. Avengers were wrong.

But the Avengers movie made an obscene amount of money at the box office. So Scott is labelled a villain and goes to jail.

No Scott wasn't right because:

1 the phoenix did not restore the mutant race hope and scarlet witch did. They used the phoenix to do it.

2 If he would have worked with the avengers and let them know what was going on, maybe they would have found a solution together and their was no way in hell he would have let the scarlet witch help.

3 He got innocent people killed in the end, and Murdered professor X.

4. The scarlet witch USED her powers along with hope to return the mutants with Hopes. If i am wrong feel free to post the comic to prove it.

#44 Posted by BigCimmerian (8710 posts) - - Show Bio

It's actually really hard to determine if Cyclops was right or not, but Captain America proved that he is douche.

#45 Edited by Ceddsong (44 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger I agree with ApatheticAvenger. It's been shown and stated that the Phoenix is the final arbiter of evolution. Its purpose is the progression of life and the mutant species is the next viable step for mankind. I don't think it's much of a stretch to view the Phoenix arrival as a portent of your species reignition. And let's not forget that the Phoenix on a variety occasions has saved the universe.

#46 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

I really do not see how anyone could read AvX and all the events leading up to it and say ANYONE was right, much less Cyclops. The continuing fanboy/girl support of certain characters regardless of the circumstances will always perplex me.

#47 Posted by trutrutru (51 posts) - - Show Bio

@sonny1:

1 the phoenix did not restore the mutant race hope and scarlet witch did. They used the phoenix to do it.

The Phoenix was still the key to restoring the mutant race. It came to earth for Hope to use as a vessel. Cyclops knew that somehow Hope and the Phoenix could fix the mutant problem. What cyclops did not know is that they would need Scarlet Witch's help. Had cyclops been given the option to work on a solution hand in hand with the Avengers as equals, they could have figured this all out after Hope accepted the Phoenix.

2 If he would have worked with the avengers and let them know what was going on, maybe they would have found a solution together and their was no way in hell he would have let the scarlet witch help.

He wasnt given the option to work with the Avengers. They came to Utopia and said they were taking Hope. period. No discussions. Not only that, but their plan was to kill/stop the Phoenix. They had two attempts. One in space with Thor, and another on the moon with the laser beam that split the Phoenix.

3 He got innocent people killed in the end, and Murdered professor X.

that happened after he was possessed by the Phoenix. Which was the Avengers fault for trying to kill the Phoenix on the moon. Cyclops never asked for the power of the Phoenix. People were only killed at the end after Cyclops repeatedly asked Professor X and the Avengers to stop. They pushed him to that point. The last thing you want to do is stress out the Phoenix host. The knew very well what can happen (dark phoenix) and decided not to let up anyway.

4. The scarlet witch USED her powers along with hope to return the mutants with Hopes. If i am wrong feel free to post the comic to prove it.

Scarlet Witch did use her powers in conjunction with Hope and the PHOENIX (which the avengers wanted to kill) to restore mutants. The point is all this could have happened from jump if the Avengers didnt come to Utopia to forcefully take Hope without approaching a solution to the problem with the x-men hand in hand as equals. They forced Scott's hand.

some things to note when considering how justified the Avengers were in approaching the problem the way they did.

- In all the times the Phoenix has visited the earth, it has never come to destroy the earth.

- Never has a host ever gone dark phoenix upon receiving the phoenix. Both Jean Grey and Rachel Grey handled the phoenix without issue, with jean only going dark Phoenix due to being manipulated.

If you can prove that the arrival of the phoenix and it finding a host is an automatic, right off the bat, disaster for the planet earth (or even automatic dark phoenix), feel free to post the comic to prove it.

#48 Edited by xeon1cs (1481 posts) - - Show Bio

It's almost like everyone forgets that Cable told Scott to not let the Avengers take Hope, because they would kill her (Which is what Wolverine intended to do), and then the Phoenix would obliterate Earth. The Phoenix never intended to destroy Earth from the start. The reason it headed for Earth, was 100% Scarlet Witches fault, something that is touched upon in Uncanny. She murdered thousands of mutants during House of M; this threw everything out of order. The Phoenix went to Earth, intended to get its host, and restore mutants. And it did exactly that.

This was Scotts plan from the beginning, to give Hope to the Phoenix. She WOULD have been able to control it, it was implied she would have been fine because of the Five Lights. She had training from Cable as well.

As for the Phoenix Five, Scott only lost control once the Avengers pushed and prodded him, for oh...I don't know, the tenth time? This time, Xavier was just trying to mentally shut him down. It's almost like he forgot that you don't do that to a Phoenix host, that's what Mastermind did to Jean, and we saw how that turned out.

Let's face it, when the smartest man (Reed Richards) in the world tells you to back off, and let the Phoenix Five do what they're doing you should probably listen.

Point being; The Phoenix never intended to destroy Earth, it's plan was always to get its host and restore mutantkind. The only reason the Phoenix Five were unable to do that, was because the power was split.

The hilarity of this, is that people are chastising Scott for killing Xavier, and the 'x' amount of people who indirectly died from his actions. But they're okay with Wanda walking around, despite the fact she directly/indirectly murdered thousands upon thousands of mutants. Why? Because she was mad at her dad. Way to go.

#49 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

It's almost like everyone forgets that Cable told Scott to not let the Avengers take Hope, because they would kill her (Which is what Wolverine intended to do), and then the Phoenix would obliterate Earth. The Phoenix never intended to destroy Earth from the start. The reason it headed for Earth, was 100% Scarlet Witches fault, something that is touched upon in Uncanny. She murdered thousands of mutants during House of M; this threw everything out of order. The Phoenix went to Earth, intended to get its host, and restore mutants. And it did exactly that.

This was Scotts plan from the beginning, to give Hope to the Phoenix. She WOULD have been able to control it, it was implied she would have been fine because of the Five Lights. She had training from Cable as well.

As for the Phoenix Five, Scott only lost control once the Avengers pushed and prodded him, for oh...I don't know, the tenth time? This time, Xavier was just trying to mentally shut him down. It's almost like he forgot that you don't do that to a Phoenix host, that's what Mastermind did to Jean, and we saw how that turned out.

Let's face it, when the smartest man (Reed Richards) in the world tells you to back off, and let the Phoenix Five do what they're doing you should probably listen.

Point being; The Phoenix never intended to destroy Earth, it's plan was always to get its host and restore mutantkind. The only reason the Phoenix Five were unable to do that, was because the power was split.

The hilarity of this, is that people are chastising Scott for killing Xavier, and the 'x' amount of people who indirectly died from his actions. But they're okay with Wanda walking around, despite the fact she directly/indirectly murdered thousands upon thousands of mutants. Why? Because she was mad at her dad. Way to go.

I thought that I was the only one who remembered that. If it had been up to the Avengers' "Phoenix Expert", Wolverine, then I'm sure things would've ended far more catastrophically. I'm one-hundred percent certain that killing Hope would've made things worse and lined up perfectly with Cables' premonition. Scarletwitch had as much a hand in the happenings as Scott did. Heck, she even killed Hawkeye at one point and yet everyone is okay with that. Yeah,Emma roasted Clint but Cyclops soon healed him.

I cut the P5 a break because they were never meant to have the Phoenix Force in the first place and that was also Ironmans' fault. It's quite sad that people are giving the Avengers credit for what was Scotts' plan, however, given the status of cash-cows((Avengers and Wolverine)) involved I'm not surprised.

This event ended as best as it could given the factors such multiple writers, artist, and favoritism and at this point I'd rather Marvel let the Extinction Team take a much-needed break. They've earned it.

#50 Posted by Lapsus (26 posts) - - Show Bio

I still find pretty weak the excuse of "They are controlled by the Phoenix Force" or "It´s Iron Man fault", Iron Man has his own part of responsabilty for the P5 of course, but making him the only guilty is very unfair

Being Scott the most nice of them doen´t excuse the actions of the rest.

They have the power and use it, so for me, they must face consequences, for the first time i hope Marvel FINALLY make somebody pay what happen.

I want more than the typical boss post-defeat speech "I´m the leader of this morons so everything what happen is my fault" very noble but insufficient basically because Scott only kill one person in self-defense and was the must "likeable" of them

The rest of the five become a bunch of jerks or something worse than that.

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