Why Cyborg's Current Form is a Poor Representation of Blacks

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#1 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

BleedingCool.com ran an article a month or so ago about how some fans reacted negatively to DC's African American characters who look like monsters.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/12/22/when-black-character-not-black-character/

To a lot of fans, the negative reaction toward monstrous Black Characters did not make sense since there are plenty of White characters who are monsters. So why can't Blacks be monsters too?

Well, it has to do with Black history. For hundreds of years, Blacks have been regarded as sub-human. This idea did not just pervade social thought, but also scientific thought. Plenty of scientists have tried to find scientific reasons for why Blacks are inferior and subhuman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermensch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroid

http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=152795&sn=Detail

http://mailstar.net/pierce.html

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_23-3-2005_pg4_24

http://www.halfsigma.com/2006/06/blacks_genetica.html

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090108132657AAtoUAc

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120220075548AAr5u9U

Some people think that racism is dead because we have a Black President, but this is far from true. Not only was there a huge racist backlash in comics against Miles Morales from some fans, but recently a songstress has called for the extermination of subhuman Black people.

http://kotaku.com/5886811/songstress-unloads-racist-rant-on-twitter

And this songstress was born and raised in New York City. In America.

Racism is obviously not dead in America, and is sure as heck is not dead abroad. Sometimes people forget that other countries around the world are not as open minded as some Americans. In China, there are recent documentations of women who use skin lighteners because they find dark skin disugsuting. Some claim that if they were to become as dark as Black people, then they would commit suicide.

http://www.thechinaexpat.com/racism-in-china/

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110127225951AA6TI7m

http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/understanding-chinese-women.htm

Now I deeply appreciate DC Comic's commitment to diversity. Not only is it important to provide Black youth with positive role-models. It's also a way to showing people that Black people are not inferior or sub-human.

http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=152795&sn=Detail

DC has done a great job with their Cyborg. I love the character and am happy that he is finally in the lime-light--even though some fans still don't think he is Justice League material.

But the problem is the negative image that it puts forth for the Black Community nationally and internationally. He depicts this image of Black people as less human. A half-man.

Some people think that Cyborg can't work as a character unless he looks physically monstrous--unless he has a metal plate covering his face (even though White characters like Metallo constanstly have prosthetic skin). Cyborg needs something to stew over.

I think that he can still stew over the fact that even though he looks human, he is separated. He's had to give up his dreams. It works for Clark Kent. Bruce Wayne broods simply over the fact that he has a mission that he can't back away from. He doesn't need to forever be separated from humanity in every conceivable way. I don't think that he would be able to star in a solo title if he remains the way that he's been in the past, because he's too much of a one note character. If readers can't relate to his situation and they don't want to put themselves into his situation, then he won't sell titles on his own. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, and even Aquaman all have a high degree of wish-fulfillment and relate-ability. Cyborg doesn't have either.

Even Hulk and Swamp Thing can revert to looking human.

There's a reason that Marvel's Thing can't hold a solo either: he's too pigeon-holed into his role as the team brooder. He's too depressing.

I want Cyborg to be a successful, popular, stand-alone character but being DC's version of the Thing won't lead to that.

My Solution: make his robotics internal like in Smallville. Get rid of the face plate. Sometimes a little goes a long way.

Pity the black man. Make him monstrous. He'll still appeal to blacks who are still aware of how society views them, right?

#2 Posted by lannister (120 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree completly

#3 Posted by The Stegman (23813 posts) - - Show Bio

Disagree, to me, race is one of the last things I care about in comics, so when I look at Cyborg I don't see a Black monstrous guy, I see A BAMF who has a genius level intellect and can interface with any piece of tech that crosses his path. But I do get you're point.

#4 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio
@Superdork: Why are you making dupe threads?
#5 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

I swear there was just a thread like this a while ago.

#6 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio
#7 Edited by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@Superdork: Why are you making dupe threads?

Yeah, my thoughts exactly! Now I have to go to the old thread and copy paste my comment!! I dont feel like writing it again....

HERE IT IS:

"Racism isnt dead because people see it everywhere.

In the words of Morgan GodBorn Freeman when asked how to end racism: " Stop talking about it"

And Cyborg looks awesome with his robot parts. Badass"

#8 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

As many points as there are against, there's as many for though, which you reluctantly didn't include. Sometimes as well it's not the subject matter actually making the point, it's the viewer placing the point inside the subject matter and inferring it where it isn't actual present in motivation. The point is, you see him as a monster, Cyborg nor the writers doesn't necessarily. I also have to point out a major contradiction here in that your speaking on the subject of judging people by their appearances then conceding to the same effort being put towards an exaggerated cybernetic character? Excluding any other exaggerated comic characters and cyborgs and what their descents happen to be. It's rather imagined and flimsy to me, sorry.

#9 Posted by TheOptimist (713 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not seeing that Cyborg looks like a monster... his altered appearance is actually one of the most distinct and impressive frames... and I think that using the concept of historical portrayals as a restrictive element on what blacks can or cannot be in fiction is short-sighted and in fact creates the same divide it seeks to prevent... black characters should be just as able to be "monster"-type characters... especially because it provides the element to demonstrate their internal ability to overcome that very stereotype and label that often haunted their portrayals... say what you will about the recent Justice League arc, but it was very telling that Batman's comments to Cyborg were of the variety that the will existed within his human element rather than his computer element...

Yes, racism is not dead, nor, to be frank, do I believe it will wither in my lifetime. Or perhaps ever. If anything, it will simply morph into a new discriminatory pattern. But allowing the continued prevalence of that trend to influence the heroic portrayals of characters through limitation is not, by my estimation, the right path. As for his place in the Justice League, the fact is that he, like many others will earn his place there... not through his representation of a color, but by the color of his character... if we are to take his representation of the community as a mark upon the demographics he represents, we must also assume that all white males are stubborn, arrogant, rude, foolish and petulant, based on their portrayal in the same title... viewing his physical portrayal as a half-man is simply a subjective lens as well... you could just as easily say that the character represents true social integration, facilitated with the power of the modern human being... an elevated life form represented by something beyond his mere super-human peers as a techno-human, the possibility of what all mankind could become.

His not covering his face is his embracing his identity, as this cybernetic being... villains typically feel the need to mask their faces (as Metallo does) or turn only to their robotic form as representation (as Ultron does), whereas Cyborg represents the medium between the two. Someone not ashamed of his technological bond, nor consumed entirely by it.

Your point about Cyborg's limitations for me is merely an invitation for his inclusion into the line as a title character of his own comic... the question is not why he can't be relatable, but how specifically and uniquely he IS relatable... and there is a world of possibility waiting within the character for that.

As for Hulk and Swamp Thing... Hulk reverts to Bruce Banner... if Cyborg could "revert" to a Bruce Banner weakling type of frail but intellectual whiner... what would that say about the representation of the African American community? Personally, Bruce Banner is not an idealized representation of just about anything... neurotic and prone to instability... and Swamp Thing traditionally could only be his monster form... and recently his rejection of fully embracing the monster form caused a crisis of epic proportions. Embracing the monster is the only way to go. Reverting to looking human is a costly price.

And hey... to aspire to be as The Thing is definitely not a knocking point. It may not apply at the moment, but The Thing also once held is own 36 issue (3 years, back in the days before Marvel double-shipped titles every month) series, that ranks as one of my favorites... Not to mention that prior to that, he held down a 100 issue series where he co-headlined with rotating stars in Two-In-One... and there are plenty well represented and popular characters that can't hold their own series. Nightcrawler, Storm, Beast, Bishop, Cable, Ghost Rider, Moon Knight, Iron Fist and Luke Cage have had trouble locking down anything more than a rapidly cancelled ongoing or the constraints of a mini-series.

#10 Posted by WildValentine (289 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh, the only people who pay attention to things like this are insecure and looking for confrontation. I personally think there is absolutely nothing wrong with Cyborg's appearance. He's an integral part of the team, so you should be satisfied.

#11 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

There's nothing wrong with his appearance.

The girl who wrote that Bleeding Cool article didn't take note of the characters of other races that also transform and/or shapeshift into something else. She's making a big deal out of nothing and fails to see both sides of the issue.

#12 Posted by Xankyou (4 posts) - - Show Bio

Studies show that children will develop negative stereotypes of other groups that they don't belong to, more likely so if they aren't educated about that group. So, despite Morgan's brilliant voice work, he's wrong. NOT talking about it is one of the worst things to do. We don't live in a fairytale world where prejudices (not just racism) don't exist. That's just about racism. About cyborg however? No, I think he works better with the piecemeal look, it's his iconic motif. The best way to have positive black characters in fiction is to to write multilayered and nuanced black heroes, so what I'm saying is the best thing for a black character is to write them well. I mean, I think his monstrous militaristic look is more indicative of how most Americans (even other blacks) see blacks in America, because according to Harvard studies, most Americans subconsciously associate blacks with violence and weapons.

#13 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that this is an issue, but the core cyberpunk/transhumanist themes of Cyborg do depend on his disfigurement. I don't think a totally human-looking Cyborg is as effective. Of course, the degree to which he is mechanized can vary and still have the same effect, but I think some sort of metal skull plating is important.

I actually liked this design a lot:

I'm a sucker for Aaron Diaz's stuff on PR though.

#14 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't care what you people say. Removing Cyborg's head piece and making him look like a regular human is like removing the 'S' off Superman's chest.

#15 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: Pity the black man. Make him monstrous. He'll still appeal to blacks who are still aware of how society views them, right?

#16 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork: uhm. y must everything be a racial issue. I loved Cyborg growing up. Now I still do. Whether he has a headpiece or without it, it doesnt matter. The difference is you take away the most important or iconic thing about him, he is n longer recognisable.

#17 Posted by Lvenger (19121 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork: Why are you making another dupe thread and repeating "Pity the black man. Make him monstrous. He'll still appeal to blacks who are still aware of how society views them, right?" What's that about? I know you have this thing about Cyborg being poorly represented but it's also linked with not many writers getting him. After Wolfman set the bar incredibly high when Cyborg was on the Teen Titans, there haven't been many other runs that get Cyborg. It's down to the writers, not the fact he's black. Not everything is a racial issue mate. There are white characters that can't hold a title you know. Ghost Rider, Iron Fist, Stephanie Brown and more have had their runs cut short.

#18 Edited by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I like that part of his face was burned off. It is like the S Shield, or the Bat...circle on the JL members' costumes. It makes him who he is.

Racism is still alive, but the overall situation has gotten better. It will only still be an issue if people continue to perpetuate it.

Also, there is Batwing, who is completely human. His comic is actually enjoyable, although it faces termination.It is even cooler because he's African. You hardly see that. Just my opinion, though.

#19 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

Racism issues aside, you can't internalize Cyborg's machine parts and make him look normal because not looking normal is one of the core issues of Cyborg. His inability to fit in a normal crowd due to his cybernetics is a big part of his plight and relatability. Taking that away would make him perhaps more politically correct, but he'd loose a good part of what makes him interesting.

#20 Edited by Trodorne (2583 posts) - - Show Bio

Show me something in comic that is being Blatantly racist and you can have me for a cause.

#21 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio
would this power grant him N-worn privilege?

@Trodorne said:

Show me something in comic that is being Blatantly racist and you can have me for a cause.

#22 Edited by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: What the hell?

What on Earth?

What in heaven's name?

Is that real? That is kind of funny imo. But that is just how I take it. Is that a DC comic?

#23 Edited by Metatron_Da_Don (1037 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg said:

I agree that this is an issue, but the core cyberpunk/transhumanist themes of Cyborg do depend on his disfigurement. I don't think a totally human-looking Cyborg is as effective. Of course, the degree to which he is mechanized can vary and still have the same effect, but I think some sort of metal skull plating is important.

I actually liked this design a lot:

I'm a sucker for Aaron Diaz's stuff on PR though.

why the hell does he have a 19th century, Frederick Douglass hair style + Chucks Taylors? 
 
From a critical viewpoint, I do find it a little disheartening that the lone black hero on Justice League literally will never be able to raise a family of his own.
Maybe they could do something to make him more human. Maybe like Tony Stark, he gets a human body with all his weapons internalized in his skin, but all his man equipment works fine so he can have a romantic life?
 
Idk I dont read JL a lot
#24 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive said:

Also, there is Batwing, who is completely human. His comic is actually enjoyable, although it faces termination.It is even cooler because he's African. You hardly see that. Just my opinion, though.

I will be so very sad when that gets canceled. At least they tried moving him into team books like JLI and now Batman Inc.

#25 Posted by SUNMAN (7227 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive said:

@Rumble Man: What the hell?

What on Earth?

What in heaven's name?

Is that real? That is kind of funny imo. But that is just how I take it. Is that a DC comic?

yeah it was done as a joke, taking the original concept of a poorly devised character. I found it hilarious.

As for Cyborg, people will be split about this, but I tend to agree more with AtPhantom in this regard:

@AtPhantom said:

Racism issues aside, you can't internalize Cyborg's machine parts and make him look normal because not looking normal is one of the core issues of Cyborg. His inability to fit in a normal crowd due to his cybernetics is a big part of his plight and relatability. Taking that away would make him perhaps more politically correct, but he'd loose a good part of what makes him interesting.

This is how Cyborg has always been he's a tragic character dealing with questions of humanity and his place in society.

I think Superdork brings up some valid points, and I'm not necessarily opposed to giving him a redesign, because he's previous design was more human than his current one. So while I like all his new powers, I don't know if I'm okay with the tradeoff of him being 70% robotic now. However, we just have to acknowledge making him look like his Smallville counterpart drastically changes his characterization. So while I'm not opposed to it I recognize this isn't the direction DC is taking the character, and unless that new design petition picks up a couple thousand more signatures I'm not going to bemoan the point. Cyborg's always interested me for more than his design (which I wasn't really crazy about originally cause he didn't have pants).

#26 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@Metatron_Da_Don said:

@fodigg said:

I agree that this is an issue, but the core cyberpunk/transhumanist themes of Cyborg do depend on his disfigurement. I don't think a totally human-looking Cyborg is as effective. Of course, the degree to which he is mechanized can vary and still have the same effect, but I think some sort of metal skull plating is important.

I actually liked this design a lot:

I'm a sucker for Aaron Diaz's stuff on PR though.

why the hell does he have a 19th century, Frederick Douglass hair style + Chucks Taylors? From a critical viewpoint, I do find it a little disheartening that the lone black hero on Justice League literally will never be able to raise a family of his own. Maybe they could do something to make him more human. Maybe like Tony Stark, he gets a human body with all his weapons internalized in his skin, but all his man equipment works fine so he can have a romantic life? Idk I dont read JL a lot

Why not give him Chuck Taylors? It's a "hipster"-style look for the "young" member of the time. That works.

And he doesn't necessarily need to be mechanized to the degree he is in JL.

#27 Edited by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN: @fodigg: :

You know. I am thinking about it, and I may be a little late, on this, but DC chose well when they decided to have Cyborg as their main black guy to be in the JL. Reason being that he is his own person. Within the realm of DC comics, I can say that there are less than 5 black characters that have their own identity.

Let's see DC's stable of characters I can name off the bat:

John Stewart, John Henry Irons (Steel), David Zavimbe (Batwing), Mari McCabe (Vixen), Karen Beecher (Bumblebee), Conner Hawke (Green Arrow, although he was half white, and 1/4 Asian and a quarter black), the list can go on and on if I had the patience. There was even a black Spectre. They even recently merged the black and white Firestorms to create a white Firestorm. You see what I am saying?

What do they all have in common? Those identities came from other characters. Cyborg, on the other hand is the best black character for just such a team, because in let's say 30 years, he will be an icon alongside the Bat and S shield, and the Lantern, and all those other symbols and whatever. Kids will be posing as Cyborg in Halloween commercials, we will see Cyborg in more Robot Chicken specials, or programs like that. That half plate will just further let people know who they are dealing with, and let fans readily identify him, and he can be likable. Did you see the cover for Injustice? They are showing Cyborg's metal half of his face on that cover. Why? Not because he's a monster, but because that makes him unique. Identifiable. Can't do that with Batwing. People that don't read comics will go "Why is Batman Black?"

Can't do that with John Stewart. If you want to distinguish John Stewart from some other Black DC guy, you need the GL symbol, and if he was the prominent GL hero in that game, or other forms of media, comic fans will go crazy like they always do. But when I saw that cover, and Cyborg was featured prominently on it, I said to myself "Dang. I am surprised they chose to put Cyborg on it instead of their beloved Dick Greyson. Cyborg looks like a boss on that cover, man. Thank God. DC is representing someone like me." You can see that DC is investing heavily in this character. I know they are planning a comic for him as we type. Who knows when that comic comes out. But DC knows when that comic comes out, it can't bomb. Not anyone should write it. It has to be on the same calibre of storytelling that the other six characters are enjoying.

I apologize greatly for this lengthy rant. I just wanted to get my thoughts across.

#28 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive: I think that's an excellent point. Cyborg is not a derivative character. Even Static has issues where people think he's related to Black Lightning.

#29 Posted by Xankyou (4 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought this was hilarious...

anyways & yeah I agree with you on that. Static kinda was based on Black Lightning IRL I'm pretty sure. And like most people have said, whether it's for one reason or another, race related or not, cyborg looking half machine is an important part of his character and changing that (other than maybe a sleeker redesign ((don't like the Fredrick Douglas hair though))) is changing a core part of the character.

#30 Posted by tahmidk (283 posts) - - Show Bio

oh u want to remove cborg's faceplate? why not change his race to asian and call him superman!

#31 Posted by Teerack (5752 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people fish for racial issues?

#32 Posted by Xankyou (4 posts) - - Show Bio

Genius.

Legitimate Genius. You should win a Nobel in Literature on concept alone really. I mean damn. I'd pay triple for this book.

#33 Edited by SUNMAN (7227 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive: Connor Hawke is black?

And who were: Mari McCabe (Vixen), Karen Beecher (Bumblebee), based off of. I thought they were stand alone characters

Also I don't really subscribe to the idea that Cyborg has to represent all of blackness in the DC since he is the only black Justice League founder. But I understand why people might view him this way, I just see him as being representative of himself.

Hal Jordan wasn't the first Green Lantern, and since he is part of a core of thousands of other Green Lanterns, I don't see it as a big deal whoever they choose to be. With so many other Green Lanterns its not a unique position. And the whole ring selection process seems inherently flawed to me, as do the role of the Guardians. There is really no primary Green Lantern they are part of a core and they are all interchangeable, some fans just prefer one to the others.

The greater the level of exposure, the more identifiable a character will be despite his looks. There are a number of ways you could make a unique Cyborg design. But the half face is the most recognizable look and the one we've seen connected to Cyborg in most iterations. The Smallville show did without it, but kept his electronic eye.

I can live with Cyborg's current design, but if WB uses him in the Justice League movie I'd imagine they'd come up with a new design, as most movies often do.

But I agree with your overall point that Cyborg is not a derivative character, which may be one of the reasons Steel was not used, and Steels similarities to Ironman's archetype.

@Xankyou: Static was not based of Black Lightning for the record

#34 Posted by SmashBrawler (5603 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive said:

@Rumble Man: What the hell?

What on Earth?

What in heaven's name?

Is that real? That is kind of funny imo. But that is just how I take it. Is that a DC comic?

Yup, it's an issue of Justice League of America, the one after Infinite Crisis. It was written by Dwayne McDuffie.

It's an in-joke, since the white guy right there is supposed to be Brian Michael Bendis and... now you get why he transforms into a black guy. Oh, and the Brown Bomber is based on a real character someone pitched DC in the 70's.

#35 Edited by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN: Yep. Can you believe that? Connor is half white though. Quarter Asian. So, he's everything.

Anyway, Vixen is the female version of Animal Man, and Karen Beecher, up until YJ has never been seen as the counterpart of the Atom, but DC may use that in the future.

Something I do not object to, as a matter of fact, I want Palmer to mentor her.

It's a shame Static Shock failed. He has personality which could have been used, because everyone else is a no-nonsense. by-the-book hard-body soldier type. Lol.

#36 Posted by Billy Batson (57918 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler said:

Yup, it's an issue of Justice League of America, the one after Infinite Crisis. It was written by Dwayne McDuffie.

It's an in-joke, since the white guy right there is supposed to be Brian Michael Bendis and... now you get why he transforms into a black guy. Oh, and the Brown Bomber is based on a real character someone pitched DC in the 70's.

That's just makes it funnier :D
BB

#37 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler: Lol. Thanks, dude.

#38 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

So what the OP is saying is that just because a character is black he should have to look like a "typical" black man? I never hear anyone complain when Radioactive man shows up being a "monstrous" Chinese guy, same goes with Ultimate Abomination.

#39 Posted by SUNMAN (7227 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

So what the OP is saying is that just because a character is black he should have to look like a "typical" black man? I never hear anyone complain when Radioactive man shows up being a "monstrous" Chinese guy, same goes with Ultimate Abomination.

Ultimate Abomination is Chinese?

#40 Posted by TheSwordsman (1954 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jorgevy said:

@spiderbat87 said:

@Superdork: Why are you making dupe threads?

Yeah, my thoughts exactly! Now I have to go to the old thread and copy paste my comment!! I dont feel like writing it again....

HERE IT IS:

"Racism isnt dead because people see it everywhere.

In the words of Morgan GodBorn Freeman when asked how to end racism: " Stop talking about it"

And Cyborg looks awesome with his robot parts. Badass"

While I respect your right to your opinion I disagree with your statements. Data shows that 53% of Americans have prejudices towards black people. That is not because of talking about it, It is because of their beliefs and ignorance The Morgan freeman comment makes no sense: If we stop talking about rape would that make it go away? If women had just not talked about being discriminated against and being treated as second-class citizens would that have made their plight go away? No, they wouldn't. Dialogue and acknowledgement of problems are necessary to evoke change. This has been proven time and again throughout history.

I think Cyborg looks cool also but I wish they had chosen Steel instead.

#41 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand the argument being presented here one bit.

#42 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN: Yup

#43 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheSwordsman said:

@Jorgevy said:

@spiderbat87 said:

@Superdork: Why are you making dupe threads?

Yeah, my thoughts exactly! Now I have to go to the old thread and copy paste my comment!! I dont feel like writing it again....

HERE IT IS:

"Racism isnt dead because people see it everywhere.

In the words of Morgan GodBorn Freeman when asked how to end racism: " Stop talking about it"

And Cyborg looks awesome with his robot parts. Badass"

While I respect your right to your opinion I disagree with your statements. Data shows that 53% of Americans have prejudices towards black people. That is not because of talking about it, It is because of their beliefs and ignorance The Morgan freeman comment makes no sense: If we stop talking about rape would that make it go away? If women had just not talked about being discriminated against and being treated as second-class citizens would that have made their plight go away? No, they wouldn't. Dialogue and acknowledgement of problems are necessary to evoke change. This has been proven time and again throughout history.

I think Cyborg looks cool also but I wish they had chosen Steel instead.

Truth.

#44 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork: Everyone on Earth has prejudices against some group of people whether they admit it or not, and while I agree that ignoring the problem won't fix it this constant need to point out potential racism some people have isn't much better for the situation.

#45 Posted by SUNMAN (7227 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Superdork brings up some valid elements for discussion. Its just that many people don't really like talking about race, which is why they are being dismissive.

What if Cyborg was more normal looking in appearance just as the other members of the Justice League and not the sole tragic member that blatantly stands out. It would certainly be a new direction for the character (*cough* Smallville *cough*). But as I've pointed out and a few others this would fundamentally change certain aspects of his character. And there are positives and negatives that would come with that change. However, I do believe that if we see another live action version of Cyborg his design will be more streamlined.

Regardless I think both arguing over Cyborg designs have some valid points. My stance, which I've stated repeatedly, is that I just don't see DC changing his image anytime soon, so I'm not going to harp on it. I respect Superdork continually pushing the point though. That's the type of dedication fans need for DC to take them seriously, SD just needs to gather other vocal supporters. Like the Wonde rWoman fans opposed to giving Diana pants.

I am curious SD have you always been a fan of Cyborg or are you a recent fan? Were you okay with his robotic design in the New Teen Titans run, as it was core to his character? Is it more important that Cyborg look a little more human or simply more streamlined or both? Also have you tried writing to DC heads, like DiDio, Johns or Lee? They may ignore you but it couldn't hurt

#46 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN: He's not the sole tragic figure in the Justice League, Superman is one of the last 2 members of his species, Martian Manhunter is in the same boat, and Batman's entire super hero career was started due to horrible tragedy. Also I don't see how keeping Wonder Woman in a swim suit could be considered progressive.

#47 Posted by SUNMAN (7227 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: hey I was in favor of the pants. :)

The statement that Superman is the last of his kind is really a misnomer, when you look at Supergirl, and the Kandorans, and Zod etc. Also Supes was raised as a human/earthling since infancy. The destruction of Krypton and the deaths of his biological parents were tragic, but I wouldn't say he is a tragic character. He doesn't live in that mindset. Batman chooses to let that tragedy define him, he envelopes himself in his rage almost letign it consume him, so I don't see it as the same thing.

I'll give you Martian Manhunter though, he's rather tragic character and like Cyborg, truly stands out. The only diference I guess is that Martian Manhunter's abilities allow him to blend in if he chooses to.

With the new 52 what I find the most striking about Cyborg is he had less agency in becoming a superhero than the other founding 7. Everyone else ultimately had a choice even if they were born with there abilities. In the new 52, Silas Stone saves Victor's life but transforms him into a cybernetic organism in the process. And than he is simply trust into battle. We do get that brief scene where Hal asks if Cyborg wants to come with them to which Victor replis, "He[ck] Yeah!" So he isn't completely without a choice but for the most part we get the sense this was forced upon him. And now he lives for the Justice League and crime-fighting cause he can't think of what he would do otherwise.

#48 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

this why i prefer marvel over DC because i can be luke cage bp or cloak. i wish they make cyborg look more less disfigured as a cyborg.

#49 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mega_spidey01 said:

this why i prefer marvel over DC because i can be luke cage bp or cloak. i wish they make cyborg look more less disfigured as a cyborg.

Like I said, being disfigured is kinda the point of Cyborg. That has nothing to do with his color, but with the fact that he's a freaking cyborg.

#50 Posted by Black_Claw (2958 posts) - - Show Bio

Exactly, if your going to have him look more human you might as well change his name to Android. Besides, I'm black and I'm not the least bit offended by his appearance.

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