With respect to G-man, I have to disagree. One of the problems with crossovers are the illogical battles between characters. I have grown tired of seeing wonder woman vs storm, Lobo vs Wolverine and Superboy vs Spider-man battles were the winner is obvious but due to fan votes, PIS ensues. A classic example for me is when Batman takes down carnage in ten punches in the Batman, Spider-man crossover. It just becomes silly.

Second is plot. Alot of crossovers have the same plot of "heroes misunderstanding each-other, then banding together to take down two villains who have banded together from each of the heroes universes to take the good guys down".

If a crossover is to work IMO, non flagship characters have to be involved. The problem with using flagship characters is that even if there are evenly matched, there is immediately pressure from the fans and the companies involved in the crossover not to back down in regards as to which of the said characters are better. However, by using new or less well known characters in a crossover, it gives an opportunity for these characters to be thrust in the limelight.

Also, it has to be a given that the comics are not decided on fan votes. Now with Facebook, twitter and other mediums to vote quickly and for free, crossovers will be determined on popularity contests, and it only goes downhill from there.

@rico_3088 said:

Yes I agree with that, need more of the smaller companies to team with the bigger companies. Question has their ever been a 3 company crossover like a DC, Marvel and Image or something like that?

3 company crossover in comics? non that i'm aware of, but it is happening in video games with Project X Zone.

No.

The idea of a crossover happening like Secret Wars did where it's contained and doesn't branch off is so so so so great, as was the book itself. Sadly I don't ever seeing that happening since companies know people will buy the branch-offs to keep up with every bit of the story, which sucks. I want to have AvX AND an Avengers comic about something else.

Crossovers have always been a favourite of mine, particularly the DC/Marvel ones. JLA/Avengers was awesome beyond belief. They should be fun, make sense and have a well crafted story behind them though. Like Wonder Woman and Thor.

@lorex said:

With resspect G-Man part of the reason DC decided to go with the universe reboot, asside from the sales and marketing prespective is that the big DC crossovers like the 'Blackest Infinite Trinity Crisis with Brighter Days' were so convoluted and confusing it was almost impossible for all but the most dedicated DC fans to understand what the heck was going on. Whats worse some writers would try to bring in characters from other realities to further mix things up. I understand part of the reason for the new 52 was to repair many of the plot and continuity holes in the uiverse resulting from the big crossovers.

I respect your opinion but I believe DC rebooted cause their sales were lagging while Marvels were up & one of the reasons were the big crossovers. With that being said DC is now using the same formula Marvel just used. A giant crossover every year or so. Blackest Night, Flashpoint, New52 & the upcoming Trinity War.

Also I don't know about you but I think the new 52 caused even more confusion. I was just a casual DC reader and started picking up a lot of DC books after the relaunch. Now i've dropped almost all of them because of how confusing it all was & how the same character could have different personalities & now it seems powers depending on which book it is. DC completely wrecked superman IMO.

The idea of comic book crossovers is not a bad idea, but there has been soooooo many craziness that has been happening in comics that I don't even know people who are reading this stuff will even keep up.

@mickeymayhew said:

sick of Avengers vs X-Men - how many issues of the wonderful Wolverine and the X-Men has this farce interrupted now?! and I bet we'll only get a few month's grace before the next mega crossover is unleashed on us, to interrupt the flow of some other fledgling title just starting out.

All avengers vs. x-men does is shove Wolverine's "greatness" down our throats.

I think if you keep the crossover to a small scale it will be better. I would love to see superman fight the hulk but I think needs to be an entire Marvel vs DC event. It would be nice if there were more events like Night of Owls were there is an over arching story but it doesn't last too long and characters keep going about there business when they are done.

I would really like to see some villain swapping because that would answer questions like "why can't Superman speed over to Gotham beat up all the nonpowered criminals and still have time to save Lois."

I've been thinking for a long time that it would be beneficial for Marvel and DC to set up a combined universe separate from both regular continuities. They would work together to make sure stories do not favor one side over the other, and both would benefit from tremendous sales and cross promotion. I think it would work, and if it was successful, they could set up more series in the same universe.

@lorex: i despise your reasons for the reboot. these arent the 70s or 80s. you have the internet. you look up something be up to date in 30 min. thats if you really want to. unless you are lazy and want the world to reboot just so you dont have to put effort in. then i have no respect for you as comic book reader.

Star Trek meets Dr. Who. Sounds awesome. Better than when Star Trek met the X-Men. OH, it happened. *cringes*

Who doesn't love it when the characters "cross-over" and meet, often just for the purpose of battling it out? I have and always will enjoy talking about characters from different companies and within their own companies meeting up and discussing who can beat who.

Secret Wars was well written, totally agree. Many great moments and even character insights. Hulk holding up the mountain will always stand out for me.

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers said:

@lorex said:

With resspect G-Man part of the reason DC decided to go with the universe reboot, asside from the sales and marketing prespective is that the big DC crossovers like the 'Blackest Infinite Trinity Crisis with Brighter Days' were so convoluted and confusing it was almost impossible for all but the most dedicated DC fans to understand what the heck was going on. Whats worse some writers would try to bring in characters from other realities to further mix things up. I understand part of the reason for the new 52 was to repair many of the plot and continuity holes in the uiverse resulting from the big crossovers.

I respect your opinion but I believe DC rebooted cause their sales were lagging while Marvels were up & one of the reasons were the big crossovers. With that being said DC is now using the same formula Marvel just used. A giant crossover every year or so. Blackest Night, Flashpoint, New52 & the upcoming Trinity War.

Also I don't know about you but I think the new 52 caused even more confusion. I was just a casual DC reader and started picking up a lot of DC books after the relaunch. Now i've dropped almost all of them because of how confusing it all was & how the same character could have different personalities & now it seems powers depending on which book it is. DC completely wrecked superman IMO.

If DC were concerned about Green Lantern crossovers causing confusion, then they probably would have wiped out Green Lantern continuity. Instead, they kept it intact. Personally, I think the main function of the reboot, and the part that worked most successfully, was to create a buzz and give new readers a good jumping on point.

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers said:

DC completely wrecked superman IMO.

Not completely. Have you read Action Comics? We're getting awesome Superman stories and the character feels more like a protector of the common man than ever before. Nothing wrong with that. Now Superman, the self named title does suck. Perez and Giffen have failed to deliver entertaining stories and Lobdell's first outing wasn't much better either.

@PsychoKnights said:

If DC were concerned about Green Lantern crossovers causing confusion, then they probably would have wiped out Green Lantern continuity. Instead, they kept it intact. Personally, I think the main function of the reboot, and the part that worked most successfully, was to create a buzz and give new readers a good jumping on point.

I think they kept most of what they liked intact (Batman, GL) and then try to fix what didn't work. Unfortunately I think they did a horrible job. Its pretty obvious that the 2 people who worked on Superman had no idea what the other was doing. Perez even said he had no idea Morrison was working on AC or whether he could use Ma or Pa Kent.

But as far as the original post, I think good crossovers are good, bad ones obviously are not.

Crossovers are fine as long as they don't lead to derivative events or countless spin-offs. Since, for the most part, they are quite bland; whenever I'm forced to purchase the Blue Beetle, I smell corporate encroachment. .

@lorex said:

With resspect G-Man part of the reason DC decided to go with the universe reboot, asside from the sales and marketing prespective is that the big DC crossovers like the 'Blackest Infinite Trinity Crisis with Brighter Days' were so convoluted and confusing it was almost impossible for all but the most dedicated DC fans to understand what the heck was going on. Whats worse some writers would try to bring in characters from other realities to further mix things up. I understand part of the reason for the new 52 was to repair many of the plot and continuity holes in the uiverse resulting from the big crossovers.

I respect your opinion but I believe DC rebooted cause their sales were lagging while Marvels were up & one of the reasons were the big crossovers. With that being said DC is now using the same formula Marvel just used. A giant crossover every year or so. Blackest Night, Flashpoint, New52 & the upcoming Trinity War.

Also I don't know about you but I think the new 52 caused even more confusion. I was just a casual DC reader and started picking up a lot of DC books after the relaunch. Now i've dropped almost all of them because of how confusing it all was & how the same character could have different personalities & now it seems powers depending on which book it is. DC completely wrecked superman IMO.

JLA/Avengers was good! The DC vs Marvel was decent but brought us the fun but strange Amalgam Universe. I'd love a new take on the Amalgam Universe post New 52!

DC and Dragon Ball Z should do a cross over in a animated movie.

@Lvenger: AC is great even though it doesn't seem like the Superman I grew up with but I gave it a try and I enjoy it. But when I read the Superman title it seems that Perez had no idea what he could do because not even he knew what the new origin was that Morrison was doing which Perez later confirmed. That is what messed it up for me.

one thing i wonder about cross-overs is are they actualy canon. In the topcow universe there where a huge amount of crossovers for series like the darkness that are actually canon and helped progress the store and filled plot holes like the darkness vs. batman and an issue of cyberforce that included wolverine and psylocke. They are canon to the TCU but are they canon to the marvel u as well?

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers: True. I read that interview and it does leave a lot to be desired in terms of organisation between the Superman family books. More could have been done there.

I HOPE IF DC OR MARVEL DOES ANOTHER I PRAY IT BE EPIC

winter soldier + red hood, 'nuff said

Put yourself in the shoes of Marvel or DC and think about the legal nightmare of pushing out a crossover series. Also, the coordination efforts in terms of resource allocation must be problematic as well... unless of course, only one of the publisher runs the entire series and just 'leases' the characters from the other.

I guess the first step for us to get more crossovers is to actually talk about it and try to generate a buzz around it.

Great job G-Man.

@moywar700 said:

No

The last thing we need is from people average people saying ,"Why isn't The Green Laturn in the Avengers." Or,"The Batman is the best Marvel film ever."These statements actually happened.

But what is even worse is "Superman and Batman don't even know each other. They can't live in the same universe." I've heard that one before.

@minigunman123 said:

Deathstroke vs. Captain America.

Batman vs. Tony Stark.

Superman vs. Thor.

X-men vs. Teen Titans.

Make it happen. You have my blessings, DC, Marvel.

this.

I think a lot of people missed the freaking point with this. I don't necesssarily think that G-Man was talking about EVENT COMICS like Avengers Vs. X-Men, Blackest Night etc. He was talking about CROSSOVER COMICS where universes that previously have not intereracted, or do not interact with each other often, do so.

For Example, Avengers Vs. X-Men is AN EVENT; Infestation is A CROSSOVER. I'd actually like to see more Crossover comics - One of the very, very first trade paperbacks of American comics I got was one of the second round of Amalgam Comics that came out of the 90's. They were stupid and fun and they had characters I'd never seen before (I.e. Green Lantern, etc)

DC Vs. Marvel was silly fun, and other crossover comics, like War of the Independants is a great read (Probably read by me and about six other people because it doesn't have Batman in it...) but Crossovers can be fun and silly and great for publicity for the characters. We're not talking about 50 tie-in issues of Cyclops stroking his new facial hair maleviolently, we're talking about Thor Vs Superman, Batman Vs the Lone Ranger, Zoro Vs Savage Dragon. Just something fun and different - but instead, we have 48 posters going 'AVENGERS VS. X-MEN IS TEH SUXOR. LOL. WTF? LMAO.' Whatever. Just read the article before you post, and maybe engage brain before that?

When they're done as a stand alone series, I love cross-overs. Especially the inter-company ones, JLA/Avengers was great as was Marvel versus DC. It's when they become events that spill into lots off titles that I get wary, but that's usually characters within one company.

If someone sees it and thinks that Batman is an Avenger or Spider-man's in the Justice League, I don't really worry. We were all there once and I would hope we as comic fans would be cool enough to help them and get to show off our nerd knowledge by pointing to obscure comics where they do team up or go on a discussion about what that might look like.

@minigunman123: @theTimeStreamer: Already did half of what you mentioned.

Personally, I really liked JLA/Avengers, and I've heard of abandoned plots that I would've liked to see published (like the recently revealed JLA/Transformers). Here are my ideas of what I would want to see come out--BUT, the characters from the differing companies would follow the precedent in one-shots like the Superman/Spider-Man, Uncanny X-Men/New Teen Titans, Batman/Spider-Man, and Fantastic Four/Gen 13, in that they inhabit the same universe (let's make it an alternate Earth or something), AND they'd all take place (on the DC side) before the New 52:

1. X-Men/Titans: sequel to the original 1982 one-shot based on a never-published plotline where the teams go up against Brother Blood and the Hellfire Club. Takes place before all the junk that affected both the Avengers and X-Men titles in 2004.

2. Justice League/G.I. Joe: answer to New Avengers/Transformers, and the exception to my above rule. Has the teams going up against Cobra and the Kobra Cult.

3. Shadowpact/Ghostbusters: The two teams face off against Ichthulu (the Chthulu stand-in from the Justice League cartoon).

4. Doom Patrol vs. Godzilla: uses the lineup from the pre-New 52 book sans the Chief. Just imagine, Elasti-Girl in a giant HAZMAT suit grappling with the King of the Monsters.

5. Aquaman/Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea: I've been taking a liking to the Irwin Allen classic, and wondered what a story involving the Seaview stumbling upon Atlantis would be like.

6. Justice Society of America/The Invaders: Cap reunites the living members of the team (as seen in Invaders Now!, but also including Blazing Skull) and calls the JSA over a piece of unfinished business from the War. We learn that during WWII, because most of the heroes of the JSA/All-Star Squadron couldn't venture forth into the Europe because of the Spear of Destiny, the Invaders were formed to handle that task while the All-Star Squadron handled the domestic threats.

7. Austin Powers and Danger Girl Get Smart Like Flint: Deuce has the team meet up with super-spies Austin Powers and Maxwell Smart (based on the Steve Carell movie), along with veteran agent Derek Flint, to handle a threat from the forces of a united KAOS and Scott Evil.

8. Suicide Squad/Thunderbolts: has the TB lineup circa under the command of Hawkeye team with a Squad lineup made up of Rick Flag, Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Plastique, the Temple Fugate Clock King, and Cheshire. Written by John Ostrander and drawn by Mark Bagley.

@GothamRed: Go on to Deviantart.com, type in New Amalgam Comics, and you'll see a bunch of submissions (titled such as "X-Patrol", "Teen Avengers", "All-Star Invaders") and you'll see Amalgam comics DONE RIGHT. Here's the page in question: http://red-rum-18.deviantart.com/gallery/10467425

If it is more Marvel heroes vs DC heroes.. No thanks..

If it is DC heroes vs Marvel villains or Marvel heroes vs DC villains.. I'll give it a shot

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers said:

@PsychoKnights said:

If DC were concerned about Green Lantern crossovers causing confusion, then they probably would have wiped out Green Lantern continuity. Instead, they kept it intact. Personally, I think the main function of the reboot, and the part that worked most successfully, was to create a buzz and give new readers a good jumping on point.

I think they kept most of what they liked intact (Batman, GL) and then try to fix what didn't work. Unfortunately I think they did a horrible job. Its pretty obvious that the 2 people who worked on Superman had no idea what the other was doing. Perez even said he had no idea Morrison was working on AC or whether he could use Ma or Pa Kent.

But as far as the original post, I think good crossovers are good, bad ones obviously are not.

I agree that the reboot hurt continuity as much as it helped. I can definitely see why they made some changes, but there are also many which seem arbitrary and counter intuitive.

it would be cool if done PROPERLY. If Superman and Thor fought you better believe superman would win. DC is NOT going to allow their golden child to lose.lol Have fans vote and describe WHY. Dont have Thor swinging his hammer like a caveman and not using any of his other abilites.

OR dont have flash facing Captain America. come on. If you had something like X-Men vs Justice League make it about them looking for "meta humans/Mutants" in the DC world and The JL gets involved. But have a dynamic X-Men roster(Cyclops,Magneto, Danger, Namor, Hope, Storm, Magik, Box, Colossus/juggs, Kitty pryde, Iceman,Wolverine, and Emma)

OR have The Young X-men VS The Teen Titans(red robin, superboy, wondergirl, bunker, skitter, solitice, and kid flash)

vs

(X-23,Anole, Rockslide, Dust, Kid Omega,Pixie, Surge, and Hellion)

@laflux: My gosh you took the words out of my mouth PIS always happen in crossovers where major flagship characters are involved Superman beating Thor blahh!

@CrimsonAlchemist said:

@laflux: My gosh you took the words out of my mouth PIS always happen in crossovers where major flagship characters are involved Superman beating Thor blahh!

Well what can I say- Great minds think alike.

@Dedpool:Yea right JLA/Avengers was PIS.

Ugh, god no. These crossovers are just gimmicks and they often result in poor stories. Maybe if they are stand alone series, but if they take over the core books then it'll just result in crappy books for a few months.

I'm not a fan of seeing the heroes go at each other. Doesn't sit right.

@moywar700 said:

No

The last thing we need is from people average people saying ,"Why isn't The Green Laturn in the Avengers." Or,"The Batman is the best Marvel film ever."These statements actually happened.

Those aren't comic readers. They can't help the fact they know nothing

This is difficult. First, most major events within one universe are disappointing. Civil War and X-Men, Avengers come to mind. The focus is more on the event than the storyline. And it becomes hard to not interrupt the flow of each comic book that it is designated to. For example I follow Punisher currently and all of a sudden I have to follow Amazing Spider-Man and Daredevil for the Omega Effect crossover. I hate having two random comics from a series I'm not following. And I'm sorry, but the two majors universe expanding crossovers (DC vs. Marvel and JLA vs. Avengers) were short and pointless. Crossovers are only used for money, to make the reader buy comics he would not regularly buy. The only crossover I would get excited for would be Marvel and DC heroes switching universes so they could fight each others' villains. I.e. Batman and Robin taking on Red Skull while Captain America and Bucky face the Joker.

I just want to see Cyclops and Nightwing stare at each other....."Nice Costume"

Ha I so knew when I saw the title of this way there was no way Sara wrote it.

I don't agree at all. We have too many badly written ones. The last time I read a good crossover it was Infinite Crisis. The marvel ones in particular are awful. I really don't want to hate them but when you have Captain America attempting to arrest Cyclops, who has yet to kill anyone for crimes for humanity on a team including every member of the Illuminati, the Scarlet Witch and Wolverine it's very hard to defend them.

I think that when done well, crossovers can be a really good thing.

I thought a Doctor Who LSH crossover made too much sense not to do.

Same goes for a Ninja Turtles Marvel Universe crossover.

I really hope that DC comics will make that Justice League Transformers Crossover that almost was made

We need another crossover like the human race needs another plague.

I read the DC and Marvel crossover..sick stuff

Meh, I'm good. At least as far as big two cape comics go.

I just don't see the appeal of crossovers. Sure it works wonders in terms of marketing because you get to pool together these several huge fan bases, but in terms of actual artistic merit it leaves a lot to be desired. Events just feel like wrestling ppv's to me, they hold back all of the good stuff until one comes out so they can force everyone to buy it. Then you get complaint's like "I don't feel like this event is actually having a big impact on the universe." It just feels slimy to me.

A monthly DC vs Marvel book would be a regular top seller. The companies are crazy for doing it.

Illuminatus! stop pissing in the pool for the rest of us.