This thread is for people to discuss where on this list ( http://www.comicvine.com/cross-company-character-rankings/43598/ ) they think Martian Manhunter and the evil Fernus should rank as there is some room for debate. Mine and Buckshot's debate can be found here: http://www.comicvine.com/message/cross-company-character-rankings/40542/&c=29&page=2#post42051 but I am going to copy and paste our last comments to save clicking.

My point: "MM is at least regular Superman's physical equal, before we consider his telepathy and shapeshifting. He has Superman's powers, is a versatile shapeshifter, possibly immortal, is only vulnerable now to fire with psychic connotations and is a powerful telepath. He easily took out the Crime Synicate's Ultraman on his own (though that was in part because he couldn't win in MM's reality). I think he's bordering on the line between high and middle herald as I would say he's the equal of some of the people on the high list (the GLs and Cyborg Superman and is near Silver Sufer, Mr. Majestic and Thor IMO). I would suggest High Herald for both, but I want to hear what others think. We need some sort of vote and maybe we should put it in it's own thread."

Buckshot's last post was "I think Martian Manhunter is powerful but most (not all, but most) of the High Herald level characters have control over cosmic forces or some enormous amount of energy, be they magic, science or natural. It's more than just their own abilities, but something that really lets them (if they wanted to) impact the universe on a large scale. I think MM (and Fernus) are higher than Mid Herald, but not necessarily High."

So I'd appreciate input from other vine users. Do you think MM is powerful enough to move up the list to High Herald or is he not quite there?

squeaky voice I think we should move him up Cos

deep voice I agree

squeaky voice yay!

deep voice and we bumped the thread too!

all YAY!

Cos whistles as he walks slowly away

Talking to yourself, Cos? You know that's the first sign of madness....

I think that MM should be at least on par with Superman or maybe higher. He basicly has all of his abilities and some.

the manhunter is pretty good.

Ok, you guys think MM is strong, so do I, but do you think that he belongs with characters with cosmic powers and control over vast amounts of powerful energy or not?
Post Edited:2007-05-06 19:39:41

i actually kinda do.

Why?

becuse do you think that sups could beat him?

Not really, but beating another character doesn't mean you should be on that character's level. It's not about individual matchups.

Which kind of characters are we talking about Galactus level or Surfer?

It's on the page linked at the beginning of the thread.

Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Cyborg Superman, The Eradicator (Fortress Mode), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), The Infinity Man, Mr. Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), Sentry, Silver Surfer, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman (B/R and AS), Thor, Void

All of them are at their best, not being written down for plot and using their powers to the best of their abilities. I don't think Martain Manhunter can match the power cosmic (and cosmic powers), 2 moonstones, Mr. Majestic (more cosmic powers), Spartan's void powers, the odinforce, a soul gem, and other things that these characters have. It's these extra things that put those guys above the rest. MM is powerful, he's Superman plus tremendous psychic powers (and other tricks), I just don't think he's on the same level as the characters above.

That is a hard one to say. I think that he is able to keep up with a coule of characters like the Green Lanterns, but not all of them like Surfer. So I don't know.

Although Satyrquaze is thinking of lowering them, I don't think MM could really take a GL using their powers to the limit. The full power of the rings includes things like stopping time, planetary teleportation, resurrection and other crazy stuff. I think that's why they're High Herald. The reason it's only those 3 lanterns at High is because not all Lanterns have that skill or have demonstrated they can use that power.

That is very true. I am not a huge DC fan so I am not sure what MM's limits are.

MM is very powerful. He has TP that dwarfs anything in the Marvel Universe (that I've seen anyway. He puts Xavier, considered the best telepath in the world, to shame.) In addition to his mental powers, he's pretty much Superman's equal. He isn't at default levels but he has total control over his molecules so he can change that (he needs outside mass to add to his own though). Plus he has other things like phasing. All this considered though, I don't see him as having as much power as someone like Silver Surfer.

Well I have heard that he is about as strong telepathy as Xavier although Xavier is not the strongest in the MU. But the other powers sound pretty cool though. I though he could only changee his shape I didn't know he could make himself stronger.

He's a much better telepath than Xavier.

Walkingstone says:

"Talking to yourself, Cos? You know that's the first sign of madness...."

I'm getting answers too, which is the second...

While I agree that MM is not at the Silver Surfer's level of power, he does possess some of that. He is able to draw matter within himself and when he does he gains control of it on a molecular level. This is similar to what the Cyborg Superman does with technology.

He is also more powerful than most (if not all) the people on the middle list. He doesn't use the full extent of his power often because of his respect for other people's minds. He is shown to slow down an entire alien race, the Swarm, who are only defeated by the combined efforts of all of Earth's heroes (DC 1 million).

Further evidence of MM's greatness....

He's great, but I don't see High Herald. His psychic powers put him above most of the people in his current tier (physically he's about equal) but I don't think they put him on the next level with the cosmic threats.

Are psychic powers not powers? Earlier in that issue, he phased Superman into (and I do mean in too) a table. The issue before he starts looking through every mind on the planet I don't think it takes a great deal of imagination to see that as a cosmic threat.

I didn't say it wasn't a power, I just don't think it's enough to put him on the level of people who can affect the universe itself on a large scale. Other than you and I, zeroedge and Satyrquaze are the only ones that have really been changing the rankings. Get them to agree with you because right now it's just you and me. You want him up and I think he should stay. We need someone else to make the decision, a tie breaker or something.

Zeroedge, Satyrquaze my friends. You agree with your old buddy Cos right?

Ey ey, none of that. No buttering them up.

I'll cancel the bribes then.......

I think MM should stay at Mid Herald and Superman should be moved there because Superman doesn't affect things on a cosmic level, either. And you've already said that MM has Superman's powers and then some. ;)

checks the Rankings Oh, they're both Mid Herald.

pause Well, I feel a little silly now. I have no clue what "Superman (B/R and AS)" means, but I guess it makes him more powerful than normal. ;D

reads the debate in the other thread I think there's a VERY good case made for moving Fernus down to Mid or High Herald.

And I'd like to keep MM and Superman at Mid Herald.

I was going to put Fernus wherever MM was but since we have decided where exactly that is yet, I'm leaving him where he is. Thanks for your input.

Superman B/R are Superman Blue and Red, Superman AS is All Star Superman, who is more like his Silver Age self.

It's because I cancelled the bribe isn't it? There is still a bribe, we just can't let Buckshot know....

HAHAHA. Gotta love those LotR references. ;D

I'm quite a dedicated MM fan, but I'd put him, say, below Silver Surfer, or Adam Warlock on an OK day.

Trial By Fire, while being a great arc, and a great showing of J'onn's power, most writer's have since ignored it. Unfortunately, by the end of his current mini-series (where several characters and himself acknowledge Superman as his only true match on Earth), his psychic abilities are not at Trial By Fire levels. And his once Plastic-Man-like shape-shifting abilities are nowhere to be found.

ScoodleDaddle says:

"I'm quite a dedicated MM fan, but I'd put him, say, below Silver Surfer, or Adam Warlock on an OK day."

Yeah, but on a good day....

He seemed a bit underpowered in the latest mini and seemed very out of character, inexplicably lacking any trust in other heroes. Even him and Superman, who he should have no issues with.

I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with you all. More oreos for me.

I want oreos. :(

Starleafgirl says:

"I want oreos. :("

All you had to say is "Martian Manhunter should be High Herald"

I'm not that mean. Oreos for everyone!

No, I mean Surfer and Warlock are on OK days. MM on his good day. Even in Trial.

Also, his behaviour isn't inexplicable, it's because of his encounter with Black Adam in WWIII. Adam "rubbed off" on J'onn. I think we can just chalk up his power level to some continuity changes in Infinite Crisis, and writers ignoring Kelly's JLA run.

If you look at it like that how come Superman is at high herald level, hes above Surfer and genis that's just absurd. Him and MM should be on the same level but both are below high herald.