I was reading the new X-Men comics and I noticed that Colossus is changing ?

He's an Avatar of the Cytorrak.

@ReVamp: On that topic, why did he become a fish monster thing though when he was fighting the Hulk?

I've not been reading Uncanny...

@X35 said:

@ReVamp: On that topic, why did he become a fish monster thing though when he was fighting the Hulk?

I've not been reading Uncanny...

Because he was angry. Oh wait. But no, that's it, he started mutating and letting go of himself, until he saw he was endangering Utopia.

@ReVamp: So... why when Juggernaut got angry did he not become a fish thing... more great work from Marvel, right? ¬_¬

@X35 said:

@ReVamp: So... why when Juggernaut got angry did he not become a fish thing... more great work from Marvel, right? ¬_¬

Do you have to ask? lol.

@X35 said:

@ReVamp: On that topic, why did he become a fish monster thing though when he was fighting the Hulk?

I've not been reading Uncanny...

Gillen is treating the Juggernaut power like a demonic possession. Piotr looses himself to the power of Cyttorak and the more demonic he looks. It's also why he keeps himself in his steel form all the time. He feels that as a normal man he would instantly loose himself to it, but as Colossus as a Superhero, he felts stronger, he feels like he can resist the power.

woa!

@X35: I actually prefer the new look as I never enjoyed the supersized ginger appearance of Cain. He looks more like the Queen of Blades from Starcraft II than a fish monster.

Well thats all very interesting but if I can change the topic for a min... I want Marko to be juggs again. I do not like Colossus as Juggernaut. Ok back to topic... So Colossus is changing because of demon possesstion ?_?

I always felt that the Cyttorak should have been more demonic anyway. You never really had a 'oh poor Juggy' type of feel with Marko and considering that he was basically possessed by a demon I feel the character and power were never given a chance to tell the deeper darker story of a person who is being tortured from within by this evil magic___ I don't care for that specific drawing much but the story they are telling should be good.

The writers are hell bent on ruining everything fans like about Colossus instead of giving us back the real Juggernaut.

@joshmightbe: Aman... Give us back Colossus.

@Kid_Omega_Prime: I'm all for bringing back Colossus but More than that I want Cain back where he belongs

@joshmightbe said:

The writers are hell bent on ruining everything fans like about Colossus instead of giving us back the real Juggernaut.

IKR?......bastards.

this colossus is more interesting. He had always been boring for the past few years, becoming Juggernaut has really added alot to his character development.

@Kid_Omega_Prime: I'm all for bringing back Colossus but More than that I want Cain back where he belongs

I like it.

I liked it at first but I'm getting tired of it.

@Dernman: Dito.

@Mercy_ said:

I like it.

@joshmightbe: @BiteMe-Fanboy:@Kid_Omega_Prime:

I don't understand why people want the old Cain back. Cain was bland to the point where they gave him a hammer and a bad case of the mumbles. The power being passed to Colossus has been the most interesting thing to happen to the mutant and Juggernaut power itself in some time.

Cain is/was a douche that had daddy issues. At least I care about how the influence of Cyttorak affects Colossus.

@Rickbarry: Juggernaut is not meant to be a thinking villain, He's a thug pure and simple. His creators intended him to be a bully basically he is meant to be the exact opposite of Professor X. You're not supposed to care about the Juggernaut, The X-Men are just supposed to fear him because he can't be reasoned with or stopped. Not everything has to be a deep thought exercise.

I'm Confused (:O

tbh i like colossus as jugg better then marko because marko gets his ass kicked like all the time when he was jugg, seeing colossus as jugg scares the fuck out of me and it would be interesting to see his feats.

@moywar700 said:

this colossus is more interesting. He had always been boring for the past few years, becoming Juggernaut has really added alot to his character development.

Completely agree. It's an attempt to shake up the status quo a bit, see how interesting things could be.

It is such a stupid concept. Hopefully in the near future he won't be all jugged out.

@moywar700 said:

this colossus is more interesting. He had always been boring for the past few years, becoming Juggernaut has really added alot to his character development.

How's this for interesting?

@One_Eye said:

@moywar700 said:

this colossus is more interesting. He had always been boring for the past few years, becoming Juggernaut has really added alot to his character development.

How's this for interesting?

that's interesting perspective.

@Enosisik said:

I always felt that the Cyttorak should have been more demonic anyway. You never really had a 'oh poor Juggy' type of feel with Marko and considering that he was basically possessed by a demon I feel the character and power were never given a chance to tell the deeper darker story of a person who is being tortured from within by this evil magic___ I don't care for that specific drawing much but the story they are telling should be good.

Here is the thing.The Destructive nature of The Juggernaut power was just one aspect of Cyttorak. Now it seems it's the only one that is used. It's a shame really. This portraying of Cyttorak as just another demon is a real regression for the character. Cyttorak was portrayed as mysterious and aloof. He has been described as a Demon and a God. The way he is portrayed now? He might as well be Mephisto. Not the guy Dr. Strange (and Cain) was having all those interesting encounters with back in the day.

But on to the point at hand. Cain Marko was never "tortured from within" by the power. He considered it a blessing. Cain is an evil son of a bitch. The power never had to compel him to do anything.

And that is why we love him.

Cain isn't that evil in comparison to most X-men villains. Yes he's a bad bad guy but he still has human qualities unlike someone such as Apocolyps who is just pure evil, there for I disagree with the depiction. I know Cain liked the power (most of the time) I was just saying it would have made him more interesting.

@Enosisik said:

Cain isn't that evil in comparison to most X-men villains. Yes he's a bad bad guy but he still has human qualities unlike someone such as Apocolyps who is just pure evil, there for I disagree with the depiction. I know Cain liked the power (most of the time) I was just saying it would have made him more interesting.

You have it backwards.

Apocalypse at least pretends he has a noble goal if nothing else. Cain was always just in it for self-gratification.

No I don't have it backwards . That's your opinion good fine wonderful but Jugg never did Galway near anything as evil as Apocolyps and I'd bet ANYthing that if you made a poll asking who is more evil of the two it wouldn't even be clos3.

@Enosisik said:

No I don't have it backwards . That's your opinion good fine wonderful but Jugg never did Galway near anything as evil as Apocolyps and I'd bet ANYthing that if you made a poll asking who is more evil of the two it wouldn't even be clos3.

Let's try this again.

Despite his methods Apocalypse probably considers himself a well-intentioned extremist. Cain on the other hand gets off on destruction. Do you see the difference?

@Enosisik said:

No I don't have it backwards . That's your opinion good fine wonderful but Jugg never did Galway near anything as evil as Apocolyps and I'd bet ANYthing that if you made a poll asking who is more evil of the two it wouldn't even be clos3.

Let's try this again.

Despite his methods Apocalypse probably considers himself a well-intentioned extremist. Cain on the other hand gets off on destruction. Do you see the difference?

@Kallarkz said:

You often have attempted to convince people that Cain was some sort of psychopath who only lived to kill with no regrets. I am sorry if that is what you base your attraction to his character on but that was off and on, In various occasions he tried to redeem himself and even stated that he didn't want to do bad things anymore and joined the teams of heroes in order to save the world.

First off Cain is not a psychopath in the Carnage sense. He is a sociopath in the 'doesn't give a damn' sense.

And any of his so called redemption attempts have been quickly forgotten or retconned away. People like to pretend otherwise. Like when he was on the Thunderbolts. But whenever I asked for anything from Cain stating he wanted redemption (or whatever) in that arc? It never seemed to materialize.

Hell in FI he is shown once again willingly succumbing to a destructive influence.

@Kallarkz said:

You often have attempted to convince people that Cain was some sort of psychopath who only lived to kill with no regrets. I am sorry if that is what you base your attraction to his character on but that was off and on, In various occasions he tried to redeem himself and even stated that he didn't want to do bad things anymore and joined the teams of heroes in order to save the world.

First off Cain is not a psychopath in the Carnage sense. He is a sociopath in the 'doesn't give a damn' sense.

And any of his so called redemption attempts have been quickly forgotten or retconned away. People like to pretend otherwise. Like when he was on the Thunderbolts. But whenever I asked for anything from Cain stating he wanted redemption (or whatever) in that arc? It never seemed to materialize.

Hell in FI he is shown once again willingly succumbing to a destructive influence.

I don't care dude!! He is no where near as evil as Apocolyps ! Hitler felt he had a cause. Satan himself has a cause. It doesn't make it any less evil. Jugg goes around robbing banks and getting into fights. Apocolyps does experiments on living beings and wants to rule the world by killing off anyone he feels unworthy... Big difference!

@Kallarkz said:

Explain that. Quickly forgotten? By you maybe. Retconned? What exactly was retconned? You are the one who needs him to be a sociopath when he is not.

When I say "forgotten" I mean by the writers and the characters. Not by some readers obviously. A better word would be ignored.

And one perfect example of this would be X-Men forever. It has Cain acting out of character as a sad sack and finally turning himself in. His next appearance in Generation-X #61 this is never acknowledged. And in a later appearance it was retconned into something more plausible. Cain turned himself in to trick the Government so he can get on the inside for a bit. All to further his own ends.

Honestly you people need to stop pretending that The ChuckAustinnaut is the basis for the character.

@Enosisik said:

I don't care dude!!

Obviously.

@Vendel said:

@Kallarkz said:

Explain that. Quickly forgotten? By you maybe. Retconned? What exactly was retconned? You are the one who needs him to be a sociopath when he is not.

When I say "forgotten" I mean by the writers and the characters. Not by some readers obviously. A better word would be ignored.

And one perfect example of this would be X-Men forever. It has Cain acting out of character as a sad sack and finally turning himself in. His next appearance in Generation-X #61 this is never acknowledged. And in a later appearance it was retconned into something more plausible. Cain turned himself in to trick the Government so he can get on the inside for a bit. All to further his own ends.

Honestly you people need to stop pretending that The ChuckAustinnaut is the basis for the character.

We are going to have to call an agree to disagree on this one.

We'll see how he is written in the future when he makes his comeback.

Yes obviously .. That's the whole point of me making an obvious statement. So that it would be obvious! You're like the one person on this entire forum with that opinion yet you 'obviously' don't get that and want to try to tell us we're wrong when 'obviously' you are in the vast 'very vast' minority on the subject.

@Kallarkz said:

@Vendel said:

@Kallarkz said:

Explain that. Quickly forgotten? By you maybe. Retconned? What exactly was retconned? You are the one who needs him to be a sociopath when he is not.

When I say "forgotten" I mean by the writers and the characters. Not by some readers obviously. A better word would be ignored.

And one perfect example of this would be X-Men forever. It has Cain acting out of character as a sad sack and finally turning himself in. His next appearance in Generation-X #61 this is never acknowledged. And in a later appearance it was retconned into something more plausible. Cain turned himself in to trick the Government so he can get on the inside for a bit. All to further his own ends.

Honestly you people need to stop pretending that The ChuckAustinnaut is the basis for the character.

We are going to have to call an agree to disagree on this one.

We'll see how he is written in the future when he makes his comeback.

The Juggernaut had a great come back only a few short years ago. Then Jeff Parker decided he wanted him for The Thunderbolts and Cain was powered down again. And that was never explained for the entire run. And the explanation they came up with in FI was the worst possible one.

As for "agree to disagree"? Hey, you asked for an explanation. And I gave you one. A perfect illustration of my point.

@Vendel said:

you asked for an explanation. And I gave you one. A perfect illustration of my point.

you gave me a description of how you view things and while you do make good points I simply do not interpret them as you have and I recall other instances that make me believe as I do.

There is nothing bad about not being able to agree on something.

@Kallarkz said:

@Vendel said:

you asked for an explanation. And I gave you one. A perfect illustration of my point.

you gave me a description of how you view things and while you do make good points I simply do not interpret them as you have and I recall other instances that make me believe as I do.

There is nothing bad about not being able to agree on something.

What is there to interpret? In X-Men Forever Cain turns himself in to the Government. In his very next appearance this is ignored. At a later date he literally says he tricked the Government into letting him work for them. So we have the OOC moment, ignoring of said moment and then the retcon.

And despite his setbacks *coughThunderbolts* since he has become a proper villain again there has been nothing stated (or thought) by Cain that would indicate he is looking for redemption. Or to even better himself as a person. We have the opposite in fact. From Cains own mouth/mind.

Something. For once.

What is there to interpret? In X-Men Forever Cain turns himself in to the Government. In his very next appearance this is ignored. At a later date he literally says he tricked the Government into letting him work for them. So we have the OOC moment, ignoring of said moment and then the retcon.

And despite his setbacks *coughThunderbolts* since he has become a proper villain again there has been nothing stated (or thought) by Cain that would indicate he is looking for redemption. Or to even better himself as a person. We have the opposite in fact. From Cains own mouth/mind.

@Kallarkz said:

@Vendel said:

What is there to interpret? In X-Men Forever Cain turns himself in to the Government. In his very next appearance this is ignored. At a later date he literally says he tricked the Government into letting him work for them. So we have the OOC moment, ignoring of said moment and then the retcon.

And despite his setbacks *coughThunderbolts* since he has become a proper villain again there has been nothing stated (or thought) by Cain that would indicate he is looking for redemption. Or to even better himself as a person. We have the opposite in fact. From Cains own mouth/mind.

we are not discussing Cain current events rather his whole character and entire history. We don't know what he is doing right now. I do not see his character the same way that you do.

Yes and in his entire history the time when he was playing hero is less than the amount of time since he has become a villain again. We are coming up on 5 years by the way. Not to mention the decades before Chuck Austin completely reinterpreted Cains character.

That blip on the radar should not be the basis for the way anyone perceives the character. That leads to countless "explanations" for the vast majority of Cains behavior. Or just outright ignoring of said behavior.

As a side note can I add that by giving big C the Juggernaut powers it is ruining two characters that I enjoy.

I Like the new collosus