The Official Civil War Thread

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#1 Posted by Teh_Exploder (80 posts) - - Show Bio

Discuss Civil War here.Who's Side Are You on, Death predictions, Pissed off Rants, Iron man Hating, Cap Hating, Tie in Discussions, do it all here. Personally i am on Cap's side because he got the coolest heros I also think Invisible Woman and Reed are going to die as evidenced by the March Marvel Solicits.
Post Edited:2006-12-18 19:31:18

#2 Posted by Captain Cascader (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

There's no way Reed is dying.

Staff
#3 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Why you gotta hate on Tony? What if some people agree with him? I don't (at least not fully) but someone might, so not everything said about IM would be hate.

And why would you think that Sue and Reed would die? It's more likely that after fighting against each other (not just fighting, but splitting up) they'll need time to fix their relationship so they won't be on the team together, still alive, just taking a chill off the battlefield.
Post Edited:2006-12-18 17:38:51

Moderator
#4 Posted by Teh_Exploder (80 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Why you gotta hate on Tony? What if some people agree with him? I don't (at least not fully) but someone might, so not everything said about IM would be hate. And why would you think that Sue and Reed would die? It's more likely that after fighting against each other (not just fighting, but splitting up) they'll need time to fix their relationship so they won't be on the team together, still alive, just taking a chill off the battlefield.
Post Edited:2006-12-18 17:38:51"

True about the tony thing sorry bad word choice ill edit that. I still think either Reed or Susan is going to be maimed, killed, or like you said chill and dissapear.

#5 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio

It seems that things aren't gonna really get resolved and there's gonna be a lot of aftermath stuff. I think the idea with the Mighty Avengers is Iron Man's team and New Avengers is gonna be Cap's "Secret Avengers" team.

Staff
#6 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

Relax, I don't really care.

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#7 Posted by Teh_Exploder (80 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that was said in an interview of someone in wizard magazine. I'm really looking forward to Mighty avengers BENDIS AND CHO!

#8 Posted by Liverwurst (881 posts) - - Show Bio

Reed wont die, if he will let me be hit with lightning etc.

I wish he would though he's keeping people in the negative zone and he made The Thing leave the country

#9 Posted by The Sovereign Element (10 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Cascader says:

"There's no way Reed is dying."

He's not dying but there will be a new FF

#10 Posted by figerrific (25 posts) - - Show Bio

Anybody here think the mini is fulfilling expectations? I'm a bit disappointed.

#11 Posted by Prodigal Son (3472 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#12 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio

From the future solicits it sounds like the "fallout" from Civil War's gonna continue for a little while. I've been enjoying it for the most part but with all the (unfortunate) delays, it just feels like it's getting to be too drawn out. It would've also been nice if there was more consistancy with the side issues.

Staff
#13 Posted by Jack Spade (24 posts) - - Show Bio

So who is on which side and why?

I'd love to hear a good defense of pro-registration, because I just don't see it. Looking back over the years, I think the heroes have been much better off acting independently than had they been working under the thumb of any government.

#14 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio
Staff
#15 Posted by Prodigal Son (3472 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#16 Posted by Sharkbite (291 posts) - - Show Bio

I work for our local Sherriff's department. For a good pro-Registration defense, I just look around the office at the stacks of paperwork.

Vigilantism doesn't protect the people; it endangers them. Imagine a world where the police can kick in your door, without a proper warrant or probable cause, sometimes without even a reason. Imagine being arrested and detained, but never actually charged with any crime. Imagine being denied your chance to speak with an attorney, not just to find out what your rights are, but being denied any rights at all. A warrant is what makes the differance between a police officer collecting evidence and a street thug stealing your TV; those laws protect us from the people who would take advantage of us. As a society, WE elect our leaders and WE give them OUR permission to create the rules that will govern us. If we don't agree with the things the propose (for example, the US concentration camps of Japanese decent American citizens during WW2) WE have the right to remove those people from office and replace them with someone who will choose what is best for the entire nation. WE, as citizens, do not elect superheroes. WE never give them permission to help us. If we don't like what they're doing, there's nothing we can do to stop them. What about all the middle ground people, like Cardiac, Punisher, or Electra, people who believe in their hearts they are doing the right thing, but day after day they kill civilians. Just in the Civil War series, how many corporate security guards and SHIELD agents have been killed by "heroes" when they committed no crimes and did nothing wrong? Just because a corrupt CEO in charge of Damage Control Inc is a war profiteer responsible for innocent deaths does not mean that every security guard working at any factory of his is an evil person, or that they are even aware of what he is doing for that matter. But Wolverine kills them just the same, for no better reason than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The reason for Registration is to protect the people, the same thing that the superheroes claim that they're wanting to do. But just like alcohol, smoking, and McDonalds fries, you can only protect the nation from the things it wants to be protected from. We will decide, as a nation, where we draw the line between our freedoms and our safety, and how much we're willing to sacrifice from either virtue. That's for us as a nation to decide, not any single person, be they President, General, or Superhero.

What Registration gives us is a chance for accountability. If Hulk picks up your car and uses it to smash over Abomination's head, that might stop Abomination from escaping, but it also costs you $20,000. It's not fair to you to have to come up with 20 grand every time Hulk gets in a fight. It's not fair to Hulk to have to pay for it out of his pocket for everything that gets destroyed either. But the money does have to come from somewhere. By supporting registration, somebody far smarter than us gives Hulk direction of when it's appropriate and when it's not to use your car as a weapon. When he does it, they'll cut you the check so it's not you dropping another year's salary just because Banner had a bad day.

The important things to remember is that superheroes choose to be superheroes. Firestar up and quit. That is an option. If a hero doesn't want to be held responsible for their choices under the mask, they don't have to fight crime. They can leave it up to the police, the military, and the heroes who do register. If She-Hulk never wants to throw a punch again, she can live just fine as a lawyer. Wonder Man can go into acting full time. Arana can work at the burger joint. But much like driving a car, if you're going to take a responsability in your hands that could potentially kill people, then you need to be prepared to accept a full accountability of your actions. If you're afraid to be accountable for your choices, you aren't responsable enough to be trusted with that power.

If a Superhuman does something against the law, in an effort to control people against their will, even if that Superhuman believes it's what is best, they're still a criminal. Dr Doom really believes that if he ruled the world, it would be a better place. Punisher believes that a criminal guilty of any serious crime could never be reformed (and that no trial is nessesary, because obviously his judgement must be infalable). Captain America believes that he has the right to pick and choose which laws he should obey, and Galactus believes our entire planet would taste good. Everyone has differant beliefs. Laws are made to protect the good of the many, occasionally at the expense of the individual. Just because someone believes they should be able to drive a few blocks to get home drunk doesn't mean it's okay; people would be put at risk by those selfish actions. So, regardless of what they believe, that drunk person can choose between calling a cab or going to jail. Their beliefs do not excuse their actions.

I can argue pro-Registration all day, and feel free to message me if you want more. The story of Cardiac is enough for me. I feel as though Civil War has spent far too much time showing the horrible What-Ifs of registration and not near enough of what it would do positive for society. Tony Stark isn't the villain in Civil War any more than it's Robbie Baldwin or Captain America. There isn't a right or wrong, good or evil. Just the law. A law which was democratically endorsed by the people of the United States. If we deny the people their right to vote and let a single man, even if it's Captain America, force everyone else to do things their way, then we are no longer a democracy. We'd have lost our freedom. So then what's even left that's worth fighting for?

#17 Posted by Prodigal Son (3472 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#18 Posted by Captain Cascader (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

Sharkbite: powers include the ability to level a thread with a wall of text on his first post!

Interesting read, welcome to comicvine.

Staff
#19 Posted by Red L.A.M.P. (2828 posts) - - Show Bio

You have made the best argument for Pro-Registration I have ever heard. Very well thought out. Welcome to CV!

Staff
#20 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio

But what about those that weren't doing anything and got busted. Arana was working at the burger joint and wasn't she sought out before using her power? (My memory's a little vague on that ish). What about Prowler? He doesn't have superpowers. Is it a Superhero or Superhuman Registration Act? And what about Spidey getting trounced on just because he said he didn't agree anymore. Before he even could step foot outside, he's blind sided by Stark and his goons.

Yes there should be accountablity but it's not like Daredevil's busting through Joe Schmoe's house. He usually fights on the street. It just seems that Marvel went out of their way to make this as extreme as possible. Sharkbite has great points but it's hard when Stark's acting like such a douche.

Staff
#21 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio

What do you think of these for ish 7?

Staff
#22 Posted by The Voidwalker (272 posts) - - Show Bio

Prurience Man says:

"There's some interesting match ups in that second shot. Is that Cage taking on Sentry? Holy crap! Reed vs. Patriot there in the background? Falcon vs. Ms. Marvel? Spidey vs. Shulkie? Sue vs. Tigra? Somebody's gonna get their clocks cleaned."

My money would be Cage getting his clocked clean first, how many people can actually go toe-to-toe with Sentry.

#23 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

If you enjoy Michael Turner's art, take a stroll over to his creator page (http://www.comicvine.com/michael-turner/3626/) where you can see more images, including this one.

Moderator
#24 Posted by Prodigal Son (3472 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#25 Posted by Prodigal Son (3472 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#26 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the Turner cover's a 1 in 15 deal. Too bad.

Staff
#27 Posted by Zantin (82 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets see what fights are going on in this cover

The Sentry Versus Luke Cage

Wonderman vs Cloak with Dagger coming to help him

She-Hulk vs Spidey

Invisible Women vs Tigra

Human Torch vs Doc Samson

Falcon vs Ms.Marvel

Vision vs Someone I have never seen before.

<_< This fights seem incredibly one-sided on both sides.

#28 Posted by Fourpower (R.I.P) (2021 posts) - - Show Bio

Sharkbite actually just made me pro-reg. I don't want the comics to work that way, because they're a lot less cool. But Sharkbite is right in the real world. Maybe you should write the issues of Iron Man where they try to convince you his position is right....

#29 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio

It may be right but I think they are going way to the extreme with it. Cap's whole civil liberties things kinda makes sense. I still wanna know why the Prowler was taken in. He doesn't have superpowers. He was a former window washer. And Peter getting attacked because he says he won't support the Act after he already registered. Saying and doing something are two different things.

Staff
#30 Posted by Metal Head (112 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, I know the very basics of hte beginning of Civil War, but can someone sum up the entire thing for me now that it's over? What happened? Who died? What happened to Cap? WHy is everyone so pissed that the ending was lame?

#31 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio

The New Warriors had a reality tv show. They got in over their heads. Nitro went ka-blooey and a bunch of people and kids died. The superhero registration act was in the works, the deaths pushed it to be passed. Tony Stark was seemingly against it at first. Took Peter to Washington to listen to him speak against it yet hired one of the old Russian (I think) armored guys to "attack" him so Spidey would have to help him. Spidey reveals his identity to the public to show his support and to please Tony. Captain America is against the registration as it infringes on the civil rights of individuals (plus the government won't be able to safely guard the identities 'cause they're always effing up). Tony and Reed make a clone out of Thor out of a strand Tony had gathered from a first meeting. The clone is semi-crazy and kills Bill Foster, Goliath. Stark was revealed to possibly be profiting on the Negative Zone prison. Nitro was revealed to be working for the CEO of Damage Control to cause destruction to boost their profits. Cap wooses out and gives up after seeing the destruction that the War was causing. Everyone's pissed about the ending 'cause it just ended. The final battle was short. Cap wouldn't have simply given up. He's been in War before. There are casualties. Stark wins. He's the Director of SHIELD now. He's still a douche.

I've probably left some stuff out. I heard about a website that summarized it in like 30 seconds. I didn't check it out but I'll see if I can find the link (if it's worth it).

Staff
#32 Posted by Spiderman1 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

I looked on Amazon and there is like a bunch of Civil War's coming out. is there one that has all of it? theres one that says it had #1-7 is that issues or ??? im confused and also how come it says Collects Amazing Spider-Man #532-538 for the Civil War: Amazing Spider-Man. I like spidey mainly, which one is the best. And could anyone reccomend some good new spidey volumes coming out soon ?
Post Edited:2007-03-03 16:29:14

#33 Posted by -000 (226 posts) - - Show Bio

I really liked the artwork in Civil War, and the ending battle, while cool, was a little cheesy at the end. I still liked #7 though.

#34 Posted by Darkchild (40624 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing that pissed me off was the horrible Thor robot jesus christ why the fuck would they screw with a good character who had a good death

#35 Posted by Ebony Bishop (767 posts) - - Show Bio

To tease his return. We all know Thor is coming back, but they wanted people to fanboy orgasm over his return in Civil War, just to turn it around and have it not be him.

#36 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I thought that was a good move. We all know he's coming back. To have it be a clone came out of nowhere. It showed how serious Stark and Richards were for their cause. I'm sure the Real Thor won't be too pleased that they tried cloning a God.

And let's try to watch the language here. That's why keyboards have the %*$# symbols.

Staff
#37 Posted by Darkchild (40624 posts) - - Show Bio

i apologize for my language but Thor is and forever been a big thing with me and i hate when teh #@$% with us fans

#38 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio

No prob. We all slip and get frustrated. Plus Stark was/is a douche. Makes me wanna curse too. We just have to keep in mind that there are some impressionable youth around her sometimes.

Hopefully Thor will have some words with Stark. Although he may have to get in line after Hulk.

Staff
#39 Posted by Ebony Bishop (767 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know how I feel about Iron Man right now. The Confession made a lot of sense.

Granted, it's frustrating that every writer OTHER than Millar can make sense of this stuff, and Millar just wants to show the smashy-smashy.

#40 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio

What I didn't like about the Confession is that they should've flipped the stories around. When I was reading it I was like WTF? He's still alive? So I take it the second story happened between Civil War #7 and Cap #25.

Staff
#41 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm anti registration and I pity Peter.

#42 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7470 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternal Chaos says:

"I'm anti registration and I pity Peter."

why and anti

#43 Posted by G-Man (30606 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure if you heard:

Staff
#44 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7470 posts) - - Show Bio

G-Man says:

"Not sure if you heard:
" />http://www.waxingamerica.com/images/johnyokowarisover.jpg"

yea i know

#45 Posted by Darkchild (40624 posts) - - Show Bio

heres to all the people who havnt read CW this will sum it up

#46 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7470 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkchild says:

"heres to all the people who havnt read CW this will sum it up
" />http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p159/Comic_Vine/douchebag.jpg"

hahahahahahaha

#47 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

G-Man says:

"Not sure if you heard:
" />http://www.waxingamerica.com/images/johnyokowarisover.jpg"

I know it is. But I just wanted to state my opinion. And fact is fact. When you look at it, Civil War was mostly surrounding Peter, Steve, and Tony. Mostly Peter though.

#48 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7470 posts) - - Show Bio

Eternal Chaos says:

"G-Man says:
"Not sure if you heard:
I" />http://www.waxingamerica.com/images/johnyokowarisover.jpg"
I know it is. But I just wanted to state my opinion. And fact is fact. When you look at it, Civil War was mostly surrounding Peter, Steve, and Tony. Mostly Peter though."

really i thought reed and sue were part of it to

#49 Posted by Darkchild (40624 posts) - - Show Bio

they were but he kinda in a nutshell told who was in the grand scheme of things

#50 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkchild says:

"they were but he kinda in a nutshell told who was in the grand scheme of things"

Yeah pretty much. Reed and Sue were involved, but they weren't involved in it as much as Peter, Steve, and Tony. The leaders were Tony and Steve. Tony for the Registration and Steve for the anti. Peter was the guy that both sides were fighting for and who had to deal with the most but also had to deal with the most aftershock after the war, (i.e. Shooting of Aunt May, going on the run ect).

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