Following a catastrophic tragedy caused by superhumans, the US Government passes a Super-Human Registration Act that requires all super-powered individuals in the country to reveal their identities, disclose their powers and personal details, and register as government employees or risk indefinite incarceration. This causes a deep rift in the hero community, with some backing the Act while others oppose it.
After reading it the affects that came after the personality changes in Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, and Mr. Fantastic. I hated the fact that it tried to push the fact that Cap would go against the Government!!!! And that Tony would Side with it!!!!!! I mean come on with this One More Day wouldn't have to happen, and Tony wouldn't have became a Tony wouldn't be in the Horrible Situation that he is in! So what do you guys think? Do you agree? Disagree?
Well, what do you know? Looks like the final horse finally cross the gate. It only took two years.
Though what Captain America did wasn't go against the government. It was the government that was going against the American ideals. I think Stan Lee put it best.
Civil War played more like apolitical allegory. Just without the pigs or the farm (congratulations on anyone who caught that.). The Registration Act was a reactionary policy to placate civil unrest. They just did it and didn't even consider the civil rights issues. Much in the same way after the attack on Pearl Harbor pretty much anyone of Japanese decent was forced into camps.
What current events are teaching us is to show us the price of such restrictions of privacy for the sake of security can lead to. As a nation the US used to be nation of "The only thing we have to fear. Is fear itself." and in a few short years we've been heading down the path to, "Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid.". Patrick Henry said it best. "Give me Liberty or give me Death." We shouldn't have to give up our rights and values. It's when those values are tested is when they mean the most.
Who has benefited from the events of Civil War, other then Osborn? Everyone has paid a price in some way.
Havn't read all of it, but I agree from what I peice together it did seem backwards. But I guess Tony being shot would not have had the same impact. What I dissliked is all the build up to it, the secret Invasion seemed way overboard, but that could be cause I'm reading it in trades and totaly out of order :| So far the best stories I've read relating to all this is the Front Lines stories centred around normal folk and not the heroes. (If I got these reversed or mixed up, It's because I am reading them after the fact)
"Civil War" did exactly what it was supposed to do, and shake everything up in the Marvel Universe. The characterizations were wrong because they were all written by a wily Scotsman with an incredibly bizarre take on superheroes as a medium. Not Millar's fault, he was given the job and allowed to run free, but it was certainly jarring for those of us that are damn near 30 and have been reading Marvel books since the 5th grade.
Did I like it? Parts of it, sure. I've always thought of Iron Man as kind of a dick and I think if you go back and read some other crossovers, Stark is USUALLY looked at or even written as pompous, a know-it-all, and often as the rich kid trying to impress everyone. "Civil War" took those concepts, cranked them up, and rubbed it in everyone's faces. Spider-Man was written as the biggest doofus, though, and I didn't like that at all. I feel that no matter WHAT, especially if there was a war going on that could possible reverse everything, Parker wouldn't unmask. He's too untrusting, especially of authority of any kind, and worries WAY too much about his family's safety (his parents and uncle were all murdered, ya know) to be standing at a press conferance, taking his mask off while The Sinister Six could be out there with a nuke primed just for the occasion. If anything, Spidey would have been at Cap's side from the very beginning, because I doubt anyone would worry more about having to unmask than he would.
Civil War had equal parts suck and win. The part with Cap going against the government was the best part, it showed Cap wasn't just a government lap dog. That he valued what America stands for, not what they wanted to turn it into. And having Stark side with the government its kinda a double edge sword, I mean he had a ton to lose exposing himself, but also look at the power he wielded during Civil War. I think Civil War was an awesome idea, but seemed alittle to rash in its execution.
Well, I can't say I hate Civil War, I never read it. I'm not going to either. You see, I've been hating on Civil War for my own personal reasons. The concept stinks to me, so I really appreciate this thread and your input. Peace.
"I though the Civil War was one of the greatest comic books storys of all time. "
Then you have terrible taste. "
I guess a large portion of comic readers do as well. "
Unfortunately....or maybe its a good thing. I mean, if people only bought good comics, both Marvel and DC would have to fire half their staff and cancel a good portion of their books.
Unfortunately....or maybe its a good thing. I mean, if people only bought good comics, both Marvel and DC would have to fire half their staff and cancel a good portion of their books. "
Everyone has different taste.Good and Not good is all opinion.I wouldn't be caught dead reading Marvel Apes,but i'm not going to say it's a bad comic.It's just not my taste.
Well there's a difference between being like "I like this silly story that is Marvel Apes/Nextwave/Obamacomic/whatever. I think is is great" and saying "I like this completely serious story in which every established character does things that they would certainly not do in their own book or hell under any half competant writer and the entire premace is just bad. I think it is great."
There is such a thing as a good story and a bad story. Your "right" to an opinion doesn't change this.
" Well there's a difference between being like "I like this silly story that is Marvel Apes/Nextwave/Obamacomic/whatever. I think is is great" and saying "I like this completely serious story in which every established character does things that they would certainly not do in their own book or hell under any half competant writer and the entire premace is just bad. I think it is great." There is such a thing as a good story and a bad story. Your "right" to an opinion doesn't change this. "
I don't know,it feels like you're trying to say people bought Civil War just because it was Civil War and not because it was good.I honestly think Civil War is the best Marvel even to date.
"I don't know,it feels like you're trying to say people bought Civil War just because it was Civil War and not because it was good.I honestly think Civil War is the best Marvel even to date. "
I personally thought that Civil War was pretty good, myself. I haven't read too many Marvel big crossovers so I don't think I can say which I even say is the best, but I liked it a lot. I don't see the problem with someone thinking it was the best story ever or whatever, it is just their opinion.....maybe they're limited to a certain amount of titles or something.
If there was no Civil War there would have been no Initiative and I really enjoy the Initiative. It has introduced many new faces to the MU (Trauma, Butterball, MVP, etc.), some great cameos, and many old characters had a chance to make a better name for themselves (Taskmaster, Justice, WarMachine, etc.) which is great because many of those characters have some great potential and deserve some time in the spotlight.
One More Day would have still happened, cause Marvel wanted to break Peter and Mary Jane up still. Captain America doesn't always side with the government, he sides with the American Dream.
I liked it. I thought it was a great twist on comics. It was daring and was starting to develop the characters into something more than just bad-guy-beaters. There were some great Captain America monologues where he made you feel that the government had gone against the American ideology.
I wish they kept the changes to Spider-man. Quesada is a gigantic pussy for being too scared to let the story unfold after Civil War. Am I the only one bored by the thought of the same super-douches getting resurrected over and over again to have the same crap stories? You want Spider-man unmarried? Read Ultimate Spider-man. I thought One More Day was going to be a tale of Spider-man coming to terms with the loss of his aunt (AGAIN, ahem). But not it was Retcon Crapfest 08.
" Well there's a difference between being like "I like this silly story that is Marvel Apes/Nextwave/Obamacomic/whatever. I think is is great" and saying "I like this completely serious story in which every established character does things that they would certainly not do in their own book or hell under any half competant writer and the entire premace is just bad. I think it is great." There is such a thing as a good story and a bad story. Your "right" to an opinion doesn't change this. "
I don't know,it feels like you're trying to say people bought Civil War just because it was Civil War and not because it was good.I honestly think Civil War is the best Marvel even to date. "
I assume people bought Civil War because they thought it was going to be good.
Make no mistake it wasn't. It was a borderline ridiculous plot solely for the excuse to have Captain America fight Iron Man. On any other day, Cap and Iron Man would have sat down and figured it out. Instead you have two best friends stabbing each other in the back and flat out trying to kill each other. WHY?!? Because it was DRAMATIC! Not because it made sense. Not because it was a good story. Because it was angsty and we got to see heroes fight each other.
Other things that didn't make sense: Iron Man sending supervillains to kill his friends. Reed Richards and Iron Man creating a monster to kill their friends. Reed Richards who spoke out against superhuman registration in the past being one of the biggest supporters of it. Bishop, who grew up in a concentration camp because of mutant registration, supporting superhero registration. Spider-Man unmasking himself. The Anti Registration guys breaking into Tony's prison to free....Daredevil and Nighthawk. There were no all powerful people who were held captive and certainly nobody who could turn the tide against Iron Man's side. Punisher's deep respect of Captain America and wanting to be the new one despite his actions going against everything Cap stands for. Beta Ray Bill having to go to Canada...
I'm sure there are another dozen things I can think of that don't make sense but I honestly think this is enough. The story was full of plotholes and out of character moments. I don't pick up a comic with Captain America and Iron Man on the cover because I want to read about these characters that look like Cap and Tony but don't act anything like them. I pick it up because I want to read stories about the real Cap and Tony who I have read about for years. Civil War was the former strictly so that we could watch superheroes fight each other. It was crap.
I assume people bought Civil War because they thought it was going to be good.
Make no mistake it wasn't. It was a borderline ridiculous plot solely for the excuse to have Captain America fight Iron Man. On any other day, Cap and Iron Man would have sat down and figured it out. Instead you have two best friends stabbing each other in the back and flat out trying to kill each other. WHY?!? Because it was DRAMATIC! Not because it made sense. Not because it was a good story. Because it was angsty and we got to see heroes fight each other.
Other things that didn't make sense: Iron Man sending supervillains to kill his friends. Reed Richards and Iron Man creating a monster to kill their friends. Reed Richards who spoke out against superhuman registration in the past being one of the biggest supporters of it. Bishop, who grew up in a concentration camp because of mutant registration, supporting superhero registration. Spider-Man unmasking himself. The Anti Registration guys breaking into Tony's prison to free....Daredevil and Nighthawk. There were no all powerful people who were held captive and certainly nobody who could turn the tide against Iron Man's side. Punisher's deep respect of Captain America and wanting to be the new one despite his actions going against everything Cap stands for. Beta Ray Bill having to go to Canada...
I'm sure there are another dozen things I can think of that don't make sense but I honestly think this is enough. The story was full of plotholes and out of character moments. I don't pick up a comic with Captain America and Iron Man on the cover because I want to read about these characters that look like Cap and Tony but don't act anything like them. I pick it up because I want to read stories about the real Cap and Tony who I have read about for years. Civil War was the former strictly so that we could watch superheroes fight each other. It was crap. "
That doesn't add up either because that doesn't account for all the hundreds of people saying they liked it? Are you saying they are pretending to like it? Most of the things you think don't make sense can be explained too.
"If there was no Civil War there would have been no Initiative and I really enjoy the Initiative. It has introduced many new faces to the MU (Trauma, Butterball, MVP, etc.), some great cameos, and many old characters had a chance to make a better name for themselves (Taskmaster, Justice, WarMachine, etc.) which is great because many of those characters have some great potential and deserve some time in the spotlight. "
The Initiative could have still happened. In fact, it didn't need a damn thing to justify it. All it needed was for Iron Man or Hank Pym or somebody smart to decide that they needed to step it up. Secret Invasion makes it even easier. I love the concept of the Inititive and it certainly didn't need Civil War.
"If there was no Civil War there would have been no Initiative and I really enjoy the Initiative. It has introduced many new faces to the MU (Trauma, Butterball, MVP, etc.), some great cameos, and many old characters had a chance to make a better name for themselves (Taskmaster, Justice, WarMachine, etc.) which is great because many of those characters have some great potential and deserve some time in the spotlight. "
The Initiative could have still happened. In fact, it didn't need a damn thing to justify it. All it needed was for Iron Man or Hank Pym or somebody smart to decide that they needed to step it up. Secret Invasion makes it even easier. I love the concept of the Inititive and it certainly didn't need Civil War. Same goes for One More/Brand New Day. "
So you're comparing Civil War to Brand New Day? A difference in opinion causing a war between the good guys vs. Parker f#ckin his life up trying to save his aunt? Initiative didn't need Civil War but that doesn't make Civil War any less of a good story.
"If there was no Civil War there would have been no Initiative and I really enjoy the Initiative. It has introduced many new faces to the MU (Trauma, Butterball, MVP, etc.), some great cameos, and many old characters had a chance to make a better name for themselves (Taskmaster, Justice, WarMachine, etc.) which is great because many of those characters have some great potential and deserve some time in the spotlight. "
The Initiative could have still happened. In fact, it didn't need a damn thing to justify it. All it needed was for Iron Man or Hank Pym or somebody smart to decide that they needed to step it up. Secret Invasion makes it even easier. I love the concept of the Inititive and it certainly didn't need Civil War. Same goes for One More/Brand New Day. "
So you're comparing Civil War to Brand New Day? A difference in opinion causing a war between the good guys vs. Parker f#ckin his life up trying to save his aunt? Initiative didn't need Civil War but that doesn't make Civil War any less of a good story. "
No, I'm saying that both of those things which people say needed Civil War to happen....didn't.
@Comiclove5: Me, it was a facinating story that created new interest in Marvel...but the effects of the war on the characters of Tony Stark, Reed Richards and Carol Danvers (among others) was devistating to me. They became villains in a very real sense - willing to do anything or crush anyone to WIN. I for one can't read anything these guys appear in these days, without thinking "How many heroes died because of you?"
I also hate the "Let's just not talk about it." way of dealing with what should still be a tremendouse amount of fallout. Anti-Reg Heroes who should be unwilling to give those three the time of day still associate with them, and nobody seems willing to point out that Norman Osborn hunted them for breaking the SAME LAWS they were willing to enforce when Tony was in charge.
" After reading it the affects that came after the personality changes in Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, and Mr. Fantastic. I hated the fact that it tried to push the fact that Cap would go against the Government!!!! And that Tony would Side with it!!!!!! I mean come on with this One More Day wouldn't have to happen, and Tony wouldn't have became a Tony wouldn't be in the Horrible Situation that he is in! So what do you guys think? Do you agree? Disagree? "
civil war was a great arch and YES it did its job BUT BUT BUT the main problem is that it some things very difficult to go back to.
the mistrust that it caused among the heroes can never be undone it struck a huge chord with fans and you cant just go back to the way it was of having a superhero HAPPY community. ITS over thats all gone. the theme now is who can heroes count on not each other and if so its only for like a alien invasion and then its back to "i hate you and never want to work with you again unless the worlds in danger and I will tolerate you for a while" so thats that.
for me its STARK vs ROGERS FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i mean never ever ever will i think that those 2 should team up again and be HAPPY about it. there is no forgiveness sorry but thats how it is.
LOL! thats great..........................too bad it aint true.........props for the pic! "
If Cap had listened to Tony,Osborne wouldn't be Director of Hammer right now. "
Hmmm...
How's this sound. If Tony hadn't hired a super villain (the Titanium Man) to publicly attack him, then Regestration never would have passed, and the bulk of the Civil War never would have happened.
Long story short, the Civil War proved that Tony and Reed were both too smart for their own good. Thankfully, both seem to realize the error of their ways now. If given another chance, I'm pretty sure that both would back away from the edge.
LOL! thats great..........................too bad it aint true.........props for the pic! "
If Cap had listened to Tony,Osborne wouldn't be Director of Hammer right now. "
Wait a minute...
Just thought of this.
Osborn is in power not because he manipulated anything, but rather because he was filmed shooting the Skrull Queen. Now...the only reason Norman had an office and an Iniative to usurp and manipulate is because Tony created it...and then invested the position with WAY too much power. Tony's doing that didn't have much to do with the Civil War. The War started in opposition of Tony's policies, thus...it seems that Norman would have been able to take control even if their had been no Civil War. The Civil War has little or nothing to do with Norman being in charge.
You know...the fact that Norman just stumbled into this whole situation...lucking out and winning the position of Superhero Czar or whatever...just because he was seen shooting the Skrull equivilent of Osama Bin Ladin...well, that was just silly. It's starting to seem like a very silly plot twist...
I always hated the Civil War stroyline period. I understand that it may be an good idea to create a big crossover where heroes fought each other and to introduce new interesting stories. But IN MY OPINION, Civil War made me hate the humans in the marvel universe. WHY? Because of how they treated most of the superheroes all of because nitro blew over 600 people. For example, after that incident, the human torch was attacked by a group of men and was hospitalized simply because he was a superhero. I understand that it's human nature to fear and hate what is different and that children were killed during nitro's attack, but DID THEY REALLY NEED TO BEAT UP JOHNNY STORM ESPECIALLY SINCE HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. Another point is that when Captain America was winning, he was held back by regular people. Had it not been for them Cap would have won. It is just me or was the whole civil war ark aimed to make captain america's team more likeable than iron man's. Yes the SHRA was designed to keep them in line and it was what spilt up the heroes. Iron Man supported the act becuase it would prevent future "nitro incidents" and Captain America was against the act because it meant that in order to continue being a hero, you must surrender some of your rights. To further increase my dislike for this storyline, Cap was killed and spiderman's life was a mess until that one more day ark somewhat fixed his life. I even started to refuse to buy or read anymore Marvel comics because of Civil War. However, i had begun to like Marvel because in the last issue of "Seige" to SHRA was thrown out and the amoisty between the heroes was over.
I've always seen it as a simple issue of what the rights of the people are. nowhere are you guarenteed, or even implied to have, the right to go out in a costume and fight crime. If the government wants to regulate them then i see no reason the superhero community should have been so angry. I saw it as a government regulation on a rsk to public safety. Having superheroes who the government understands and identifies, even controls to an extent, can be a very good thing. Now I'm not saying that the entire hero community should become the government's attack dog. We regulate and license cars to protect ourselves from the dangers of idiots on the road, why shouldn't we ensure we have competant and regulated heroes to protect ourselves from idiots in costumes? I've never understood what Cap was fighting for. What rights were being violated? If Cap wants to protect people, he should take off the mask, put on a badge, and get on payroll. otherwise how is he any different from just being a vigilante with a code of conduct? Cap seemed to think the government was taking the rights of the people, but isn't that what we pay the government to do? we just make sure the take away the correct rights, like the right to kill people, or the right to deal meth out of your basement,or the right to drive a car with no experience or skill. Maybe I'm just an idealist, but if Cap didn't want to register, then he should have hung up his shield and gotten a day job.
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