Winick's Catwoman isn't my Catwoman!

Posted by keith71_98 (387 posts) - - Show Bio

I remember when Judd Winick was on DC's New 52 Panel at San Diego Comic-Con. When addressing the new Catwoman ongoing series Winick went to great lengths to say that Catwoman would be violent and sexy. I was immediately intrigued and liked the sound of what Winick had in mind. Then came "Catwoman" #1 and I quickly realized that Winick's idea of what's sexy is a far cry from mine.

Catwoman is a sexy character but instead of focusing on what makes her sexy, Winick goes the cheap route and makes her a spectacle. Pink and purple bras, close-up cleavage shots, weird seductive poses, and a wild out of nowhere sex scene that is as forced and contrived as anything you will see. A lot of people are making the sensuality of this book a hot topic of conversation. But I never felt the book was offensive. It was a disappointment.

There were some things I liked about "Catwoman" #1. But Winick ended up putting together a disjointed issue that failed to be exactly what it advertised - sexy!

#1 Posted by fodigg (6094 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm surprised you didn't think of T&A shots when a comic book writer referred to a character as 'sexy.'

#2 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@keith71_98: @fodigg:

I have to agree with Keith... T & A shots aren't necessarily sexy... They're cheap... Often times trashy... but Sexy? No... Sexy should be alluring..mysterious...tantalizing... The shadow of a woman's silhouette through a set of blinds is sexy... A wet T-shirt contest isn't... Huge difference.

#3 Posted by danhimself (21916 posts) - - Show Bio

how is a sex scene between two people who have had sex many times "forced"....I don't get it...she was hurt and took it out on Batman by rocking his world....not "forced"

#4 Posted by fodigg (6094 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm said:

@keith71_98: @fodigg:

I have to agree with Keith... T & A shots aren't necessarily sexy... They're cheap... Often times trashy... but Sexy? No... Sexy should be alluring..mysterious...tantalizing... The shadow of a woman's silhouette through a set of blinds is sexy... A wet T-shirt contest isn't... Huge difference.

I'm not saying they are sexy. I'm just saying, when you hear an author describe that for today's comic book market, I'm not sure why you'd expect anything other than cheap T&A. Trashy or not. Keith must be optimistic.

#5 Edited by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@Timandm said:

@keith71_98: @fodigg:

I have to agree with Keith... T & A shots aren't necessarily sexy... They're cheap... Often times trashy... but Sexy? No... Sexy should be alluring..mysterious...tantalizing... The shadow of a woman's silhouette through a set of blinds is sexy... A wet T-shirt contest isn't... Huge difference.

I'm not saying they are sexy. I'm just saying, when you hear an author describe that for today's comic book market, I'm not sure why you'd expect anything other than cheap T&A. Trashy or not. Keith must be optimistic.

Ah! Fair point. I guess I was just hoping for more... But, it seems you're right.. Sexy, in the comics, basically comes down to T & A shots... It could be so much better...

@danhimself said:

how is a sex scene between two people who have had sex many times "forced"....I don't get it...she was hurt and took it out on Batman by rocking his world....not "forced"

He doesn't mean that SHE was forced... Just that the scene itself was forced... As if the writer thought, "Okay, I need a sex scene. I'll put one here."

#6 Posted by entropy_aegis (13656 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

how is a sex scene between two people who have had sex many times "forced"....I don't get it...she was hurt and took it out on Batman by rocking his world....not "forced"

Yes but did we ever see Selina and Bruce getting it on like that? nope INC is how you do it,as the poster mentioned it's needs to mysterious and alluring.There is nothing comicbook about Catwoman #1,there barely any plot or content,it was boobs,more boobs and sex.It's a product of porn.

#7 Posted by MrMazz (980 posts) - - Show Bio

I like this catwoman. Is it a tad camp yea but this is comics. As a character Kyle knows what she wants and how to get it. Seducing random dude in the bathroom in order to smash his face in required showing some of the goods its logical.Now im sure you could conceivably come up with some way that would keep he shirt on but that didn't happen it kept the book moving which is good. This book was pretty Sexy and Violent so Winick hit his mark.

@danhimself said:

how is a sex scene between two people who have had sex many times "forced"....I don't get it...she was hurt and took it out on Batman by rocking his world....not "forced"

you right I still don't get the where the forced idea came from.

#8 Posted by keith71_98 (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself
The scene was forced not necessarily the sex. I mean it had no real connection with the story. Just BOOM it happens. The entire issue was like that, lurching from one scene to another with hardly any context or flow.
#9 Posted by daak1212 (7853 posts) - - Show Bio

Its sexy as hell its just not a tease like you wanted.

#10 Posted by daredevil21134 (9218 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@danhimself said:

how is a sex scene between two people who have had sex many times "forced"....I don't get it...she was hurt and took it out on Batman by rocking his world....not "forced"

Yes but did we ever see Selina and Bruce getting it on like that? nope INC is how you do it,as the poster mentioned it's needs to mysterious and alluring.There is nothing comicbook about Catwoman #1,there barely any plot or content,it was boobs,more boobs and sex.It's a product of porn.

What did you'll expect its Judd winick lol

#11 Posted by entropy_aegis (13656 posts) - - Show Bio

@keith71_98 said:

@danhimself: The scene was forced not necessarily the sex. I mean it had no real connection with the story. Just BOOM it happens. The entire issue was like that, lurching from one scene to another with hardly any context or flow.

Some are finding that hard to understand.

@daredevil21134 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@danhimself said:

how is a sex scene between two people who have had sex many times "forced"....I don't get it...she was hurt and took it out on Batman by rocking his world....not "forced"

Yes but did we ever see Selina and Bruce getting it on like that? nope INC is how you do it,as the poster mentioned it's needs to mysterious and alluring.There is nothing comicbook about Catwoman #1,there barely any plot or content,it was boobs,more boobs and sex.It's a product of porn.

What did you'll expect its Judd winick lol

Still it's nowhere near the Starfire controversy.

#12 Posted by JediXMan (28067 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself said:

how is a sex scene between two people who have had sex many times "forced"....I don't get it...she was hurt and took it out on Batman by rocking his world....not "forced"

So I take it Batman and Catwoman are a consistent thing now? I always hated the on-again-off-again thing. I don't know, I just always saw them together somehow.
#13 Posted by daredevil21134 (9218 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@keith71_98 said:

@danhimself: The scene was forced not necessarily the sex. I mean it had no real connection with the story. Just BOOM it happens. The entire issue was like that, lurching from one scene to another with hardly any context or flow.

Some are finding that hard to understand.

@daredevil21134 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@danhimself said:

how is a sex scene between two people who have had sex many times "forced"....I don't get it...she was hurt and took it out on Batman by rocking his world....not "forced"

Yes but did we ever see Selina and Bruce getting it on like that? nope INC is how you do it,as the poster mentioned it's needs to mysterious and alluring.There is nothing comicbook about Catwoman #1,there barely any plot or content,it was boobs,more boobs and sex.It's a product of porn.

What did you'll expect its Judd winick lol

Still it's nowhere near the Starfire controversy.

I didn't mind that either.

#14 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's what Winnick had to say in regards to all the controversy:

This is a Catwoman for 2011, and my approach to her character and actions reflect someone who lives in our times. And wears a cat suit. And steals. It’s a tale that is part crime story, part mystery and part romance. In that, you will find action, suspense and passion. Each of those qualities, at times, play to their extremes. Catwoman is a character with a rich comic book history, and my hope is that readers will continue to join us as the adventure continues.

I'm pretty sure that he wanted the controversy. LOL

#15 Posted by entropy_aegis (13656 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85 said:

Here's what Winnick had to say in regards to all the controversy:

This is a Catwoman for 2011, and my approach to her character and actions reflect someone who lives in our times. And wears a cat suit. And steals. It’s a tale that is part crime story, part mystery and part romance. In that, you will find action, suspense and passion. Each of those qualities, at times, play to their extremes. Catwoman is a character with a rich comic book history, and my hope is that readers will continue to join us as the adventure continues.

I'm pretty sure that he wanted the controversy. LOL

Typical.

#16 Posted by keith71_98 (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@jrock85
I'm giving Winick one more issue just because of my love for the character. But I stand by my belief that just showing boobs, butts, and skimpy underwear doesn't equal sexy. Catwoman's sexiness was once mostly found in her character but not in this new incarnation. Where she was once intriguing due to her complexity, now she comes across as an unlikable and almost trashy character that it's easy to dislike. 
 
If this is Winick's "Catwoman for 2011" then I'm ready for a new writer.
#17 Posted by Saren (24413 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked it.

Moderator
#18 Posted by keith71_98 (387 posts) - - Show Bio

It felt almost juvenile. Like something I would read as a 13 year old and then hide from my parents. It stripped Selina of her true sexy qualities and reduced her to an object.
#19 Posted by daredevil21134 (9218 posts) - - Show Bio

Fans overreact too much sometimes

#20 Posted by Jake Fury (17928 posts) - - Show Bio

Issue #2 will be on cinemax. True story!
#21 Edited by keith71_98 (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@daredevil21134
By wanting a good high quality book with solid writing and decent structure? By asking the creators to be, I don't know, creative and not take cheap easy ways out? 
 
I guess so. ;)
#22 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@jrock85 said:

Here's what Winnick had to say in regards to all the controversy:

This is a Catwoman for 2011, and my approach to her character and actions reflect someone who lives in our times. And wears a cat suit. And steals. It’s a tale that is part crime story, part mystery and part romance. In that, you will find action, suspense and passion. Each of those qualities, at times, play to their extremes. Catwoman is a character with a rich comic book history, and my hope is that readers will continue to join us as the adventure continues.

I'm pretty sure that he wanted the controversy. LOL

Typical.

He probably had that statement already prepared before the book even came out. LOL

@keith71_98: Well, I'm not one to complain about and abundance of boobs and butts LOL. I just want Winnick to show more depth to the character.

#23 Posted by entropy_aegis (13656 posts) - - Show Bio
@daredevil21134 said:

Fans overreact too much sometimes

You forgot condom head?
#24 Posted by entropy_aegis (13656 posts) - - Show Bio
@jrock85 said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@jrock85 said:

Here's what Winnick had to say in regards to all the controversy:

This is a Catwoman for 2011, and my approach to her character and actions reflect someone who lives in our times. And wears a cat suit. And steals. It’s a tale that is part crime story, part mystery and part romance. In that, you will find action, suspense and passion. Each of those qualities, at times, play to their extremes. Catwoman is a character with a rich comic book history, and my hope is that readers will continue to join us as the adventure continues.

I'm pretty sure that he wanted the controversy. LOL

Typical.

He probably had that statement already prepared before the book even came out. LOL

@keith71_98: Well, I'm not one to complain about and abundance of boobs and butts LOL. I just want Winnick to show more depth to the character.

Yup,but Winick is something which i take with a grain of salt.Shame,the previous Catwoman volumes both started off strongly even if they did become poor later on but this one is already on the wrong track.
#25 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Same here. I'm gonna stick with this book for now but I'm giving Winnick very little margin for error.

#26 Posted by iLLituracy (13522 posts) - - Show Bio

It was decent enough, IMO.

#27 Posted by cosmo111687 (1488 posts) - - Show Bio

@keith71_98 said:

...a wild out of nowhere sex scene that is as forced and contrived as anything you will see...

I don't know. I think out of all controversial aspects of that issue, the sex scene seemed the most justifiable. The way I interpret it is:

Catwoman establishes in the beginning of the issue that she lives her life by risk. That's an inherent aspect of her character that has done her more harm in her life than good and it's that very quality that prevents her from building lasting relationships with people, because all the people she gets close to get hurt, and forces her to become emotionally detached, because with attachment comes pain. You can see her pain reflected within her eyes when Lola asks her if she is okay. After having had her home taken away from her, rejecting the hospitality of a person she considers a true friend out of fears of someday causing her harm, and having memories of her brutal past resurface, she is left feeling lonely and vulnerable in her hotel room that night. So when Batman, the one dependable person she has in her life, shows up, she engages in sex with him - not out of lust but out of the desire for a feeling of home.

Anyways, that's how I saw it. And you're free to have your opinion on it and I wholly respect that.

#28 Posted by chipsnopotatoes (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@keith71_98: @keith71_98 said:

@jrock85: I'm giving Winick one more issue just because of my love for the character. But I stand by my belief that just showing boobs, butts, and skimpy underwear doesn't equal sexy. Catwoman's sexiness was once mostly found in her character but not in this new incarnation. Where she was once intriguing due to her complexity, now she comes across as an unlikable and almost trashy character that it's easy to dislike. If this is Winick's "Catwoman for 2011" then I'm ready for a new writer.

Well, thank god we only have 3 more months till 2012.

#29 Posted by entropy_aegis (13656 posts) - - Show Bio

@chipsnopotatoes said:

@keith71_98: @keith71_98 said:

@jrock85: I'm giving Winick one more issue just because of my love for the character. But I stand by my belief that just showing boobs, butts, and skimpy underwear doesn't equal sexy. Catwoman's sexiness was once mostly found in her character but not in this new incarnation. Where she was once intriguing due to her complexity, now she comes across as an unlikable and almost trashy character that it's easy to dislike. If this is Winick's "Catwoman for 2011" then I'm ready for a new writer.

Well, thank god we only have 3 more months till 2012.

LOL,but Winick will always be Winick.

#30 Posted by chipsnopotatoes (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: @entropy_aegis said:

@chipsnopotatoes said:

@keith71_98: @keith71_98 said:

@jrock85: I'm giving Winick one more issue just because of my love for the character. But I stand by my belief that just showing boobs, butts, and skimpy underwear doesn't equal sexy. Catwoman's sexiness was once mostly found in her character but not in this new incarnation. Where she was once intriguing due to her complexity, now she comes across as an unlikable and almost trashy character that it's easy to dislike. If this is Winick's "Catwoman for 2011" then I'm ready for a new writer.

Well, thank god we only have 3 more months till 2012.

LOL,but Winick will always be Winick.

You're assuming he stays on the book. I'm not. LOL.

#31 Posted by keith71_98 (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@chipsnopotatoes said:

@keith71_98: @keith71_98 said:

@jrock85: I'm giving Winick one more issue just because of my love for the character. But I stand by my belief that just showing boobs, butts, and skimpy underwear doesn't equal sexy. Catwoman's sexiness was once mostly found in her character but not in this new incarnation. Where she was once intriguing due to her complexity, now she comes across as an unlikable and almost trashy character that it's easy to dislike. If this is Winick's "Catwoman for 2011" then I'm ready for a new writer.

Well, thank god we only have 3 more months till 2012.


LOL...well said
#32 Posted by battyfan1 (203 posts) - - Show Bio

@keith71_98:

ahhhhhhh come on guys.......give this book a chance.......i still believe he can deliver a good story....this was the first issue.......

i agree he that he needs to calm down on the T&A......but the intense relationship with batman.....i like it.....

#33 Posted by keith71_98 (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@battyfan1
The scene with Batman did little for me mainly due to how it comes completely out of nowhere. And since the book had already established for me it's view of sexy, the last crazy scene was even worse.
#34 Posted by slick23 (460 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, uh, can she be my catwoman? I swear I'll dress as Batman if I have to. :)

#35 Posted by StarKiller809 (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't really care for the scene but I knew before the new 52 they hooked up. 
 
I'm fine with this Catwoman.. because it's not terribly different in my opinion.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.