Who else hates the origin in batman returns which is now cannon?

#1 Posted by Skewer (325 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked batman year one but the thing I hated the most was the prostitute origin for catwoman. When the new 52 was brought in the first thing I was hoping was that it would be changed and we would get something more interesting. But now we have the origin used in both batman returns and catwoman, both of which I hate. Why could they not use the first one which she was a child that had seen her mother commit suicide and father die of an over dose of alcohol, the one where she was a socialite by day and catburglar by night and a robin hood to the less fortunate like on batman the animated series or where she had been on the run from the cops like on the dark knight rises. Each of those are better for many reasons, they make more sense, she's more sympathetic and much more interesting.

#2 Posted by Jimay94 (16 posts) - - Show Bio

i agree. nobody seem's to like this origin and YET they still do it. hopefully they'll change it like last time they tried to give her this origin.

#3 Posted by The_Greatest_Username (139 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know why they didn't make it more like her (sort of) origin in DKR. It's obvious that they're wanting her character to resonate with the movie fans, so why not base her off the more recent movie?

#4 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

I still refuse to accept that this really happened.

#5 Posted by SupBatz (1727 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Greatest_Username said:

I don't know why they didn't make it more like her (sort of) origin in DKR. It's obvious that they're wanting her character to resonate with the movie fans, so why not base her off the more recent movie?

Agreed. Nolan really nailed Catwoman pretty well.

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#6 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't wait for Catwoman #0! I'm excitedly waiting for it!

#7 Posted by BumpyBoo (8101 posts) - - Show Bio

@Imagine_Man15 said:

I still refuse to accept that this really happened.

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#8 Posted by Mutant God (3020 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought the one with her mother's suicide was canon

#9 Posted by BumpyBoo (8101 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mutant God said:

I thought the one with her mother's suicide was canon

It is, right? I thought that was part of the prostitute origin?

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#10 Posted by Mutant God (3020 posts) - - Show Bio

@BumpyBoo said:

@Mutant God said:

I thought the one with her mother's suicide was canon

It is, right? I thought that was part of the prostitute origin?

I think it is

#11 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't like.

#12 Posted by HexThis (884 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz said:

@The_Greatest_Username said:

I don't know why they didn't make it more like her (sort of) origin in DKR. It's obvious that they're wanting her character to resonate with the movie fans, so why not base her off the more recent movie?

Agreed. Nolan really nailed Catwoman pretty well.

My thoughts exactly, it's like a big F-you to the latest major motion picture Catwoman.

It's just dumb. But fixable. They can retcon it.

@Mutant God said:

@BumpyBoo said:

@Mutant God said:

I thought the one with her mother's suicide was canon

It is, right? I thought that was part of the prostitute origin?

I think it is

It was used for her revised origin afterwards though, her childhood remained mostly the same throughout the Brubaker years.

#13 Posted by JSH92 (414 posts) - - Show Bio

First off, I really enjoyed Judd Winick's run on Catwoman, despite the negative reviews it mostly got. When I heard about Ann Nocenti taking over, I was a little unsure as to wheter or not I would continue to collect the series. Then, when I heard the horrors of her Catwoman #0, I decided that I was done. I'm not even gonna get the #0. At least it saves me the $2.99 a month, but I really wish that Winnick would've stayed on.

#14 Posted by BatWatch (2561 posts) - - Show Bio

Spoilers! for catwoman 0. I was not near As negative about catwoman 0 as most, but I think the main difference between my perspective and most people's is that I did not think the cats revived selina. I took it simply as an homage to the films, but the cats did not heal hr, they just brought her back to consiousness.

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#15 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio

The question you should be asking is, who actually likes it?

#16 Posted by chipsnopotatoes (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@PsychoKnights: You're one of the few people who actually have reading comprehension skills. It was a nod to Batman Returns, yes, but she was by no means dead or licked back to life by cats. An awning broke her fall and maybe the cats licked her back to consciousness. It's no more stupid than Judd Winick's story where she falls halfway from the sky and only ends up with a dislocated shoulder (which apparently is worse than childbirth, lol)

#17 Posted by chipsnopotatoes (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: My question is would it have been passable under the pen of a better writer? Ann Nocenti can't write Catwoman to save her life.

#18 Posted by danhimself (22442 posts) - - Show Bio

@chipsnopotatoes: I don't know and never will know what child birth feels like but a dislocated shoulder hurts REALLY bad

#19 Posted by BatWatch (2561 posts) - - Show Bio

@chipsnopotatoes said:

@PsychoKnights: You're one of the few people who actually have reading comprehension skills. It was a nod to Batman Returns, yes, but she was by no means dead or licked back to life by cats. An awning broke her fall and maybe the cats licked her back to consciousness. It's no more stupid than Judd Winick's story where she falls halfway from the sky and only ends up with a dislocated shoulder (which apparently is worse than childbirth, lol)

Yeah, personally, I think comic book writers should have to be pushed off of a two story building before they are allowed to write a human superhero book. Most writers seem to have little concept of the effects of gravity. Even good writers like Snyder do dumb stuff. In Batman #2, Bruce falls at least six stories or so and then catches himself on a gargoyle. Yeah right!

I don't see why nobody understands the Catwoman scene like you and I do.

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#20 Posted by Skewer (325 posts) - - Show Bio

To those people who think its a nod to batman returns should watch the movie cause its not a nod, it's an adaptation of that scene. The comic even states the nine lives superstition. Even the angles are the same.

#21 Posted by TeamUnitedNerds (402 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skewer said:

I liked batman year one but the thing I hated the most was the prostitute origin for catwoman. When the new 52 was brought in the first thing I was hoping was that it would be changed and we would get something more interesting. But now we have the origin used in both batman returns and catwoman, both of which I hate. Why could they not use the first one which she was a child that had seen her mother commit suicide and father die of an over dose of alcohol, the one where she was a socialite by day and catburglar by night and a robin hood to the less fortunate like on batman the animated series or where she had been on the run from the cops like on the dark knight rises. Each of those are better for many reasons, they make more sense, she's more sympathetic and much more interesting.

Because DC is incapable of writing female characters correctly

#22 Posted by TDK_1997 (14642 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh well Nocenti likes the way it is.

#23 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6234 posts) - - Show Bio

@TeamUnitedNerds said:

@Skewer said:

I liked batman year one but the thing I hated the most was the prostitute origin for catwoman. When the new 52 was brought in the first thing I was hoping was that it would be changed and we would get something more interesting. But now we have the origin used in both batman returns and catwoman, both of which I hate. Why could they not use the first one which she was a child that had seen her mother commit suicide and father die of an over dose of alcohol, the one where she was a socialite by day and catburglar by night and a robin hood to the less fortunate like on batman the animated series or where she had been on the run from the cops like on the dark knight rises. Each of those are better for many reasons, they make more sense, she's more sympathetic and much more interesting.

Because DC is incapable of writing female characters correctly

Are you not reading Batwoman then?

#24 Posted by Nerd Of A Hero (853 posts) - - Show Bio

I only liked that origin story of Catwoman in the Batman Returns film because it was just in the movie continuing in itself. Even in Batman TAS had a better origin story for her. The only reason they used that origin story in the new 52 was because they didn't had an original idea and thought it would be more 'superhero-ish' with her gaining cat like powers. That's all.

#25 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

a better question would be "who actually likes this origin?"

#26 Edited by smiling4ever (35 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not like the origin of her getting revived by cats nor being a prostitute(I don't really mind the prostitute version..that much) ...I just think it is dumb ..and I prefer her being a socialite by day and/or a robin hood type of thief/cat burglar by night.

#27 Posted by bloggerboy (553 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Batman Returns but I want that Catwoman and her origin stay out from comics.

#28 Posted by ticklefist (32 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm indifferent. I had a very different reaction to the zero issue than most.

#29 Edited by Onemoreposter (4004 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the origin where she was a whore. Why does everyone hate that one so much? You know, there are plenty of whores in real life either by choice or circumstance. It was an interesting take on the character IMO, and for me personally, did not make me think any less of her.

Also, people seem to be saying they prefer the DKRises origin over Millers....Was I the only one who got the vibe that Selena was a bit of a whore in that movie?

#30 Posted by Lady_Shadow (31 posts) - - Show Bio

@onemoreposter:

I like the origin where she was a whore. Why does everyone hate that one so much? You know, there are plenty of whores in real life either by choice or circumstance. It was an interesting take on the character IMO, and for me personally, did not make me think any less of her.

Also, people seem to be saying they prefer the DKRises origin over Millers....Was I the only one who got the vibe that Selena was a bit of a whore in that movie?

I thought she was a whore too or at least in charge of an "escort" service.

I don't particularly like the prostitute origin story but i think it works. It lets her represent the darkest corners of Gotham. It makes her part of a world that is considered trash and full of undesirables. She knows what its like to do what is necessary to survive when no one wants to help. Through this experience she fights to protect and aid those that Batman and the police don't "have time" to deal with.

#31 Posted by akbogert (3213 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll admit I've stayed mostly ignorant of the n52 Catwoman and her origins. I think prostitution definitely fits with the character (as has been pointed out, it ties her to the part of Gotham most people want to turn a blind eye to), so I wouldn't be bugged too much by that.

I'm far more concerned by the implication that she is not actually Selina Kyle. Maybe that was blown out of proportion or I just seriously misunderstood what people were talking about?

Oh, and I hate how she doesn't have green eyes anymore ('least not in JLA).

#32 Posted by Ren_ (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

They've messed Catwoman up SO MUCH in DCnU. They need to do what they did with Green Arrow.

Get a damn good creative team and pull a soft reboot on her title.

#33 Edited by chipsnopotatoes (328 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, if there's one thing they did right in nu52 is doing away with the prostitute origin as it doesn't make any sense at all in explaining how Catwoman became a world class thief. It just really opens the character up to so much abuse and slut shaming (the most odious ones found on Bleeding Cool)

Those who think this as done in the character's best interest are deluding themselves or showing their true colors. From what I heard, this origin was introduced under an editorial regime that hated Catwoman.

http://www.slideshare.net/branding-disasters/destroying-your-brand

Also, she was a con woman and grifter in Nolan's TDKRises. You guys may be confusing that with Frank Miller's TDKReturns.

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