The Problem With CATWOMAN

  • 101 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
#51 Posted by Mrfuzzynutz (1142 posts) - - Show Bio

interesting take Babs, I like this version of Catwoman because she is flawed and is far from perfect. While the Catwoman in the past was confident, sultry and just always managed to stay a half a step out of your reach unless she wanted you to catch her,and she would be gone again just as quickly

But this 52 version is a nice blend of sexiness, loneliness and reckless in her adventures, and while she hasn't grown from the experience, to see her reaction to Lola's death was very intense.

I am looking forward to what a new team can bring for the next 12 months however

#52 Posted by Rise2Ragnarok (139 posts) - - Show Bio

While I've been enjoying the run so far on Catwoman, I can also see the points you are making Sara. Interested to see the direction she's going to go next.

#53 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

Winick has been doing a superb job on Batwing. Hopefully, year two would see that series focus squarely on him and his cast. YOU HEAR ME WINICK?

On the side note, hopefully Catwoman can stop being generic as fudge after the creative shift.

#54 Posted by Zabilac (32 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually enjoyed Catwoman aside from issue #1.

#55 Posted by TheMess1428 (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

Ann Nocenti didn't say she hasn't read Catwoman in 10 years. She said that she wasn't reading them all like a superfan. She said her editors gave her stories to read all the time when she thought she needed to read it. So no, Ann Nocenti isn't going into Catwoman blind.

#56 Posted by Strafe Prower (11892 posts) - - Show Bio

Winnick hasn't done selina justice and I dont expect much from Ann either. If she want to read some good Catwoman stries, read Brubaker or Dixon's run on Catwoman. That was character development!

#57 Posted by Om1kron (1151 posts) - - Show Bio

To be honest my comic book store missed pulling number 3 for me so I missed Lola's death, so I didn't really think much about it since I've gotten every other issue since but Sara does have a point how Lola's death was more of a thing and not a stepping stone or a turning point.

#58 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6836 posts) - - Show Bio

You make some fine points with this article...unfortunately in Winnick's run we see a Catwoman that hasn't learned to grow nor develop. It is sad but in my opinion this past run only leaves Nocenti no direction but to go upward in ways to improve everyone's favorite Cat Burglar who walks the fine line. Sure, it has mad for a lackluster series that could have been so much better over the last year but, live and learn and let changes happen. In truth, if one were to go according to her original characterization in caring only for stealing shiny things and nothing more, then I might say that Winnick's run is spot on. But yes, it would be good to see her actually learn something for a change than just run from her past.

#59 Posted by sethysquare (3842 posts) - - Show Bio

I wasn't really interested in Catwoman but I thought the internet overreacted at issue 1. It was completely unnecessary. I read the tie in and I thought it was really good. I know people were really getting into the story. oh well, hopefully Ann does a better job at Catwoman. I have been enjoying her Green Arrow, but thats really because the first arc was totally horrible. I hope she can do better for both books.

I still think Winick fits the book much better.

#60 Posted by Kallarkz (3295 posts) - - Show Bio

She was referred to as a cat burglar though in the newspaper in the movie

#61 Posted by FoxxFireArt (3404 posts) - - Show Bio

The overall mood for CATWOMAN seems to be sort of off in a random kind of way. It appeared at first that this was going to be a more mature title. Especially given the themes of that first issue. It them went off into some heavy drama with the death of Lola, but quickly started trailing off in no real discernible direction. I wonder if Judd just went too far too fast with that death in issue three.

I saw that you pointed out that you wouldn't have reacted the same way as Selina does, Sara. It shows your passion for the character that you so strongly identify with her, but she's a different (fictional) person. Being written by Judd, she's eventually going to take actions that you wouldn't follow. However, it is the authors job to explain the motivations for said actions.

People often toss around the word plot hole, but I don't see something as really being a plot hole just becasue it's not answered right away. Now that we know that no future answers will be coming. It seems fitting to start calling them holes.It's unrealistic that Nocenti will take up her limited amount of time sewing up all the Judd's loose ends.

I'm more concerned about a rehashing of Selina's origin story. How long are they going to spend on this instead of moving the story forward? Comics spend way too much time retelling pasts in place of building on the future. I would imagine DC gave her some sort of filler to catch her up. I just hope it was more detailed that Cliff Notes. Maybe what the series needs is some fresh eyes and ideas?

It's cause for worry if this doesn't work out what may become of this title.

#62 Posted by mikeymikemikemike (1 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see why anyone is complaining about (except for this pointless Spark character...). It's sexy, smart and pretty fun which is what Catwoman should be. Also there is nothing wrong with being clueless and clumsy. In general comic book characters don't really ever change even during a massive retcon. It's a shame people didn't embrace a Selina Kyle without fifteen various family members; it's a comic book not Days Of Our Lives.

#63 Edited by Billy Batson (58319 posts) - - Show Bio
#64 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

Agree on everything.

#65 Posted by Replicant0658 (86 posts) - - Show Bio

Whose idea was it to hand the series over to a writer who has never written the character before or read a Catwoman story in 10 years?

#66 Posted by NewKid (367 posts) - - Show Bio

i just read the first new 52 trade for catwoman, and i really enjoyed it! can't see what all the hate was about, it's not as serious and heavy as some of the other titles, but it's good fun. it's like a good popcorn movie, you don't need to think too much, just enjoy. i loved the crazy cliffhanger endings. it was like a fast moving, fun, tv show. i think the new writer will make the series take a turn for the worst.

(now winick is off catwoman... maybe he'll be taking over Action comics after grant leaves? that could be interesting...)

#67 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

Dead on.

#68 Posted by Mandrewgora (299 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like the comic very much but I feel I should support it, I love catwoman and the fact she has an ongoing comic.

#69 Edited by DarkChris (301 posts) - - Show Bio

The whole direction of the title is wrong. They should reintroduce her relationship with Falcone and the mafia. Maybe make her an ally of Falcone just to get closer to him. On the other hand, it's too extreme and out-of-character, so I should forget it. :P

We need a Catwoman who is a combination of Year One, Long Halloween and Brubaker's run versions.

#70 Posted by lady_toyano (166 posts) - - Show Bio

Its a good read, but this was something that was bothering the jack shiz outta me once I looked past "forced awkward sexy time". I keep reading the series as if these are her starter days as catwoman, but there not and her lack of forsight and planing tends to be pretty painful at times. I wonder what reason one has for why she acts as so.

#71 Posted by Wolverine0628 (369 posts) - - Show Bio
I read the first issue and was disgusted.  Catwoman is not just another cover girl; she's tough, smart, and talented.  She doesn't need to rely on gimmicks and over-the-top content to sell an issue.
 
@DarkChris

No, I think that's a good idea.  The Falcone family has gotten zero to very little face time in the New 52, and the Catwoman series is the perfect place to put them.  I might actually buy another issue if she went back in this direction to a more Long Halloween-type of series.
#72 Edited by CatBoy (36 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, Sara. I like you so much as a writer and a personality, but everytime you talk about Selina - I cringe a little. I feel like this article should be retitled MY Problem With CATWOMAN.

Ever since the series started, you've had this same issue, her "non-development" as a character, and the idea that she doesn't learn from her mistakes... you also haven't been a fan of March on artist duties. As for the latter, I just can't relate, because I LOVE his art (and I'm going to miss him) - but that's just different strokes... But as far as her character development, I just don't see it. Since the start of this new series, I always thought that each issue played like an episode of Weeds, with Selina as Nancy Botwin. For those of you not familiar, Weeds is about a woman who loses her husband to a heart attack, and now that he was the breadwinner - she has to figure out a way to support her two sons and keep the house. She becomes a drug dealer in the fictional suburban town of Agrestic, and gets in way over her head. Like Selina in the New52, Nancy is always getting in trouble...over and over... from season to season... constantly putting her family and friends in harm's way - not because she isn't developing as a character, but because she has a serious problem. An addiction, like Selina's. And she has sex. And can be pretty violent... ringing any bells?

Nancy Botwin from Showtime's Weeds.

I just find that a good formula for a Catwoman comic. And I get it, just because Selina keeps getting in to serious trouble, doesn't mean there's no development for her character - It just means it's a part of who she is. And that's a tough thing to shake. So, thus - she's bound to make the same mistakes until she learns. Personally I don't see it as chronic as you do, I see that as long as the storyline moves forward - and there's still emotion involved, it makes sense. I don't think Selina has to figure it all out in 4 issues. Of course, this series isn't without it's problems.

Mainly, the fact that I feel like I haven't seen a full picture yet, and I doubt Winick will accomplish this with one issue left. I feel for this Selina, and I wanted to get the entire vision that Winick had in mind... it's disappointing that he only had 12 issues in mind since the beginning. I'm glad Nocenti is continuing with the same torch, but it also worries me that her first issue is #0. I hope her and Winick were in contact so she can get the whole origin right... where it seems like we've been driving to it since #1. I also hope that Nocenti creates characters that aren't so throw-away. I like Gwen, I liked Lola... but most if not all of her supporting cast is pretty weak. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

#73 Posted by georgethecat (65 posts) - - Show Bio

Great post! I would probably also add the art is entirely off-putting, well, to me and to some other women I know. I'm sure there are women out there who love it, but it's not for me, personally. It's really hyper sexualized, even moreso than most portrayals of female characters in comics. And I like my ladies to be sexy, sure, but that's not the only component that makes up a female character. In fact, shockingly, if you've ever met a woman, you'd probably find that you could describe her using more than one term (sexy, sexy, sexy!)

I started reading this series and eventually took it off my pull list. I normally like Judd Winick's work (especially regarding Green Arrow & Jason Todd) but this was just awful for me. It felt like Selina had become the epitome of Kate Beaton's Strong Female Characters, and coupled with the art, I just couldn't keep on. It's sad because I love the character and think she's great, but am really not loving the direction she's going in comics right now. (On the big screen, however, Anne Hathaway did an absolutely fantastic job with Selina -- great writing of her, too! Kudos to that! Now that is definitely more of a Selina for me -- the Brubaker/Cooke/Dini Selina) I hope Ann Nocenti does better with this title, but some of the interviews have made me a bit wary in that she will keep Selina on the same track Winick has put her on. :[

But frankly, I wish we had a Selina that was more like Brubaker/Cooke/Dini's style. Those were great stories and showed a very complex Selina who was sexy, but also intelligent, skilled, capable, mature, and had a distinct moral code. I didn't see much of the complexity in Winick's Selina, but then again, I did stop reading it after issue #5. And hey, if we can get some Ming Doyle on art, I might just pick it up again ^-^

#74 Posted by georgethecat (65 posts) - - Show Bio

@chipsnopotatoes: I keep saying Kathryn Immonen would be fantastic on this book. But I'd love to see a TDKR -esque version (which seemed to be a lot closer to Brubaker/Cooke/Dini's versions)

#75 Posted by Linore (25 posts) - - Show Bio

@CatBoy said:

Oh, Sara. I like you so much as a writer and a personality, but everytime you talk about Selina - I cringe a little. I feel like this article should be retitled MY Problem With CATWOMAN.

Ever since the series started, you've had this same issue, her "non-development" as a character, and the idea that she doesn't learn from her mistakes... you also haven't been a fan of March on artist duties. As for the latter, I just can't relate, because I LOVE his art (and I'm going to miss him) - but that's just different strokes... But as far as her character development, I just don't see it. Since the start of this new series, I always thought that each issue played like an episode of Weeds, with Selina as Nancy Botwin. For those of you not familiar, Weeds is about a woman who loses her husband to a heart attack, and now that he was the breadwinner - she has to figure out a way to support her two sons and keep the house. She becomes a drug dealer in the fictional suburban town of Agrestic, and gets in way over her head. Like Selina in the New52, Nancy is always getting in trouble...over and over... from season to season... constantly putting her family and friends in harm's way - not because she isn't developing as a character, but because she has a serious problem. An addiction, like Selina's. And she has sex. And can be pretty violent... ringing any bells?

Nancy Botwin from Showtime's Weeds.

I just find that a good formula for a Catwoman comic. And I get it, just because Selina keeps getting in to serious trouble, doesn't mean there's no development for her character - It just means it's a part of who she is. And that's a tough thing to shake. So, thus - she's bound to make the same mistakes until she learns. Personally I don't see it as chronic as you do, I see that as long as the storyline moves forward - and there's still emotion involved, it makes sense. I don't think Selina has to figure it all out in 4 issues. Of course, this series isn't without it's problems.

Mainly, the fact that I feel like I haven't seen a full picture yet, and I doubt Winick will accomplish this with one issue left. I feel for this Selina, and I wanted to get the entire vision that Winick had in mind... it's disappointing that he only had 12 issues in mind since the beginning. I'm glad Nocenti is continuing with the same torch, but it also worries me that her first issue is #0. I hope her and Winick were in contact so she can get the whole origin right... where it seems like we've been driving to it since #1. I also hope that Nocenti creates characters that aren't so throw-away. I like Gwen, I liked Lola... but most if not all of her supporting cast is pretty weak. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Wow And I was just bout to get into Weeds and it seems ur analysis is correct

#76 Posted by chipsnopotatoes (330 posts) - - Show Bio

@georgethecat:Haven't read Immonen but I'd been campaigning for years to have DC poach Marjorie Liu to write Catwoman!

BTW, been a while since we chatted, but Congratulations!

#77 Edited by georgethecat (65 posts) - - Show Bio

@chipsnopotatoes: Yes, I totally agree on the Marjorie Liu front. Her Black Widow & X-23 are amazing. I think Selina is a lot closer to Black Widow, but yes, that is a writer I'd love to see writing Selina. Someone told me that she and Kathryn Immonen have exclusive contracts (no writing for DC) with Marvel, though, which made me super sad because I think either one would be a great combo. Ming Doyle on art? (Oh! And Immonen wrote Wolverine & Jubilee, did great on all their voices & did a great Emma Frost, too)

Also, thank you!! I'd love to hear your thoughts on TDKR Selina :D

#78 Edited by chipsnopotatoes (330 posts) - - Show Bio

@georgethecat: Too bad about Liu and Immonen. And yeah, I loved her Black Widow. That's why I thought she'd be perfect for Selina. Haven't seen Ming's work but Yanick is my dream artist for the book.

And TDKR Selina! I'm so giddy! I love that Hathaway proved all the naysayers wrong!!! Her Selina was so different from Julie's and Michelle's. Very elegant and cat like in her movements. Super classy. Super efficient burglar. My favorite was her first two scenes (of which I won't spoil) but that seems to be the consensus by everyone. Jonah Nolan really knocked it out of the park in writing a multi-faceted character and Hathaway pulled her off perfectly. There wasn't any scene of hers I could find fault with at all.

All I can say is thank God Nolan's definition of sexy =/= Winick's definition of sexy :D And guess what, her last scene was my husband's favorite shot of her. Hahaha!

What did you think?

#79 Posted by georgethecat (65 posts) - - Show Bio

I know! I loved every moment she was on the screen. I loved that she was the wise-cracking funny one and also, she was basically the Han Solo character! She was kind of like, no, I got my own thing over here, oh OK, I'll join you and save the day ;) Agreed on the last scene, it was a big fave of mine. I don't think there's a scene of hers I didn't love. She felt just like Brubaker/Dini/Cooke Selina, much moreso Dini Heart of Hush-esque.

Here's a Selina by Ming Doyle: http://www.mingdoyle.com/illust/catwoman.jpg

I thought Yannick did some great facial expressions (and lots of T&A xD) on Batman Inc. v1 no. 1 and he'd be an OK pick for a book with her, but I'd need a sexier Bruce :P

#80 Posted by charlieboy (7096 posts) - - Show Bio

my main problem with the characterization of the new 52 catwoman is she just seems clueless at times. selina before the new 52 planned all of her capers out meticulously. she just doesn't really come off as a master thief in this new series. 

#81 Posted by battyfan1 (203 posts) - - Show Bio

i know there were a lot of people that did not like winnick on Catwoman's book .....but i loved him from day one......

people still forget that she is just starting out...and yes she makes mistakes.... i think she does learn from some of them, Its slow progress but i liked winnick more than i think i will like ann......

#82 Posted by chipsnopotatoes (330 posts) - - Show Bio

@georgethecat: Haha, typical cat. And yes, the wise-cracks. I was rooting for Eva Green and Marion before, but based on what I saw, neither could have pulled off Anne's comic timing. Did you read the Bale interview? He was explaining the bat-cat dynamic and said something like Selina makes Bruce laugh, that's why he can't put her away. And I loved her interactions with Bruce more than the ones with Batman. Great chemistry (not of the smouldering variety like Keaton/Pfeiffer but more Spencer Tracy/Kate Hepburn). Very entertaining snarkfests.

Wow. Nice artwork. Does she also draw a sexy Bruce :D

#83 Posted by The Mighty Monarch (2137 posts) - - Show Bio

@CatBoy said:

Oh, Sara. I like you so much as a writer and a personality, but everytime you talk about Selina - I cringe a little. I feel like this article should be retitled MY Problem With CATWOMAN.

Ever since the series started, you've had this same issue, her "non-development" as a character, and the idea that she doesn't learn from her mistakes... you also haven't been a fan of March on artist duties. As for the latter, I just can't relate, because I LOVE his art (and I'm going to miss him) - but that's just different strokes... But as far as her character development, I just don't see it. Since the start of this new series, I always thought that each issue played like an episode of Weeds, with Selina as Nancy Botwin. For those of you not familiar, Weeds is about a woman who loses her husband to a heart attack, and now that he was the breadwinner - she has to figure out a way to support her two sons and keep the house. She becomes a drug dealer in the fictional suburban town of Agrestic, and gets in way over her head. Like Selina in the New52, Nancy is always getting in trouble...over and over... from season to season... constantly putting her family and friends in harm's way - not because she isn't developing as a character, but because she has a serious problem. An addiction, like Selina's. And she has sex. And can be pretty violent... ringing any bells?

Nancy Botwin from Showtime's Weeds.

I just find that a good formula for a Catwoman comic. And I get it, just because Selina keeps getting in to serious trouble, doesn't mean there's no development for her character - It just means it's a part of who she is. And that's a tough thing to shake. So, thus - she's bound to make the same mistakes until she learns. Personally I don't see it as chronic as you do, I see that as long as the storyline moves forward - and there's still emotion involved, it makes sense. I don't think Selina has to figure it all out in 4 issues. Of course, this series isn't without it's problems.

Mainly, the fact that I feel like I haven't seen a full picture yet, and I doubt Winick will accomplish this with one issue left. I feel for this Selina, and I wanted to get the entire vision that Winick had in mind... it's disappointing that he only had 12 issues in mind since the beginning. I'm glad Nocenti is continuing with the same torch, but it also worries me that her first issue is #0. I hope her and Winick were in contact so she can get the whole origin right... where it seems like we've been driving to it since #1. I also hope that Nocenti creates characters that aren't so throw-away. I like Gwen, I liked Lola... but most if not all of her supporting cast is pretty weak. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

THANK YOU. SOMEONE HAS SOME GODDAMN SENSE.

#84 Posted by Eyz (3042 posts) - - Show Bio

I miss the days of Darwyn Cooke's Catwoman series... That series was so much fun!

It had a "noir" style perfectly represented in background characters such as Slam or Wildcat, Catwoman was explored and developed in every issue no silly "Wait until you see that issue/Origin is revealed/etc." non-sense.

#85 Edited by Grimoire (566 posts) - - Show Bio

Hopefully we can see a turnaround but to tell you the truth I actually like this Catwoman. lol

#86 Posted by bloggerboy (632 posts) - - Show Bio

@jpblair88 said:

If we could get a series similar to Brubaker's run ill be happy.

Same here.

#87 Posted by bloggerboy (632 posts) - - Show Bio

@Eyz said:

I miss the days of Darwyn Cooke's Catwoman series... That series was so much fun!

It had a "noir" style perfectly represented in background characters such as Slam or Wildcat, Catwoman was explored and developed in every issue no silly "Wait until you see that issue/Origin is revealed/etc." non-sense.

Agreed, not to mention it didn't have shock sex/death scenes with little to no build-up.

#88 Posted by chipsnopotatoes (330 posts) - - Show Bio

Ann Nocenti needs to watch TDKR ASAP and MANY MANY TIMES. That's how you write a Catwoman.

#89 Posted by Perfect 10 (1239 posts) - - Show Bio

Judd winick and the artist captured catwoman PERFECTLY. its one of my favorite books and im a lifetime fan of catwoman having read/own ALL of her comic appearances (yes i'm obssessed). i was so happy to see her go back to her roots of her 90's book with her being a thief and planning heists. i just wish she would do bigger/international heists like she did in her 90's series instead of staying in Gotham all the time. i mean how many museums/millionaires are there in gotham to sustain her career? Catwoman is the number one thief in the world (pre-new 52) and i would LOVE to see that explored. have her travel the world, encounter other thieves, track down rare artifacts etc. i'm not looking forward to this new writing team cause green arrow has been a hot mess but maybe the writer can write catwoman better then she did green arrow? keeping my fingers crossed

#90 Posted by CatBoy (36 posts) - - Show Bio

@chipsnopotatoes: Nocenti has stated in interviews that she doesn't want to be effected by the film, so she didn't see it. Personally, I liked the film - but the problem with being inspired by the movie - was that the Nolan/Hathaway Selina is sooooo inspired by the pre-New52 comic Selina. With Holly, her alluded troubled past, and her slight heroism is very much not what the post-New52 Selina is all about.

#91 Edited by CatBoy (36 posts) - - Show Bio

@Linore: and @The Mighty Monarch: Thanks you two!! I'm glad I'm not alone in my analysis. I really want to love this Selina more and she has a lot of potential. But dare I say it, we need a better writer to handle her. Nocenti - I'm looking at you.

#92 Posted by sj_esposito (429 posts) - - Show Bio

Great article.

Catwoman was one of the series that I had high hopes for before it started, but it's clearly fell completely flat. I agree with all the things in this article: Catwoman is a compelling and interesting character, with a complex relationship with DC most popular hero; more than that, Winick is a good writer and has written some of my favorite stories. There's no logically reason that this series shouldn't have worked really well. Shame that it went so wrong.

Also, I'd like to say thanks to Sara for bringing up Nocenti's comment about her not having read a Catwoman book in 10 years. It's ridiculous, unprofessional and, quite frankly, makes me not even want to give her run a try. If she doesn't respect the character enough to read a few stories when DC told her that she'd be taking the reigns, then why would we believe that she's going to turn this series around? That statement was a slap in the face to fans.

#93 Edited by chipsnopotatoes (330 posts) - - Show Bio

@CatBoy said:

@chipsnopotatoes: Nocenti has stated in interviews that she doesn't want to be effected by the film, so she didn't see it. Personally, I liked the film - but the problem with being inspired by the movie - was that the Nolan/Hathaway Selina is sooooo inspired by the pre-New52 comic Selina. With Holly, her alluded troubled past, and her slight heroism is very much not what the post-New52 Selina is all about.

I know what she said and I'm not on board with the idea that she doesn't need to to influenced by the film or read up on past versions of the character to see what worked and what didn't. Especially, since her Trail of the Gun had this shrieky insane addicted-to-her-score Catwoman running around with streaky mascara. Complete turn-off. And if she's going with Winick's version, that's pretty much keeping the bathwater and throwing out the baby.

As for being inspired by pre-New52, I actually liked Hathaway's first two scenes best before she even thought about reforming. She's just a real smart cookie who puts some thought to planning her heists and is very much in control of the situation. She makes sure to anticipate snags and you can plainly see she's good at what she does. She's not this self destructive two-bit thief with low self esteem prone to emotional mood swings.

BTW, did you change your mind about Hathaway?

#94 Posted by Dakk (83 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting take on a great character.

#95 Edited by Manarg (87 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefered Michelle Pfeiffer's catwoman to Anne's. Don't get me wrong the latest screen catwoman was very well done. There was just something about Pfeiffer's take that screamed cat far more than the others. I also liked that she was an accident prone clutz at the start of the movie, and the change is drastic. I guess to me it was the way she toyed with her targets, just like a cat does. (In a good way not a wtf kind of corny crap is this way ala Halle Berry. The problem with Berry's catwoman is: she went full retard, and you never go full retard.

As for the New 52 cat, I was not a fan so did not really give it a chance after issue 1.

#96 Edited by Mistah_B (40 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Mighty Monarch: couldn't have said that better myself, personally after Snyder's Batman, my fav book has been Catwoman, I am dreading the creative change.

@Sara Lima "I understand the idea that to grow up and to mature you have to go through some serious stuff. You have to make mistakes in order to learn and to get better. I also think that if I were to lose someone really close to me, I think I would learn to be more careful with my life and the lives of others. Eleven issues in and it still doesn't feel like Catwoman has learned that lesson, and as a result it's hard for me to sympathize with a character who watched her best friend die as a result of her actions and irresponsibility, and not change",

She's a self absorbed 22 year old world class kleptomaniac that runs around rooftops dressed like a Cat (think i've heard that about another character before) how rational and mature do you expect her to be. Also she didn't watch her Lola die either, she discovered the body upon returning to the apartment. Perhaps like most traumatized young adults would react, she's trying to move on and act like nothing happened, I thought the scene where she meets Batman on a rooftop in either issue 4 or 5 where Batman asks if she had a death wish and Selina screams back "MAYBE I DO !!!!!" was really powerful and revealed a lot about where Catwoman was/ is mentally. I vote zero confidence for a woman who hasn't read anything Catwoman in 10 years

#97 Posted by Haunting752 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Mighty Monarch: I couldn't possibly agree any more with you and I'm so glad to find someone who I agree with so much. I've been the biggest supporter of Catwoman from the beginning and it's my flagship title for starting to read comics in the first place, as was the New 52. I feel the only reason they've replaced Judd Winick who I think is a fantastic writer, with Ann Nocenti is to keep people from being upset. DC is probably tired of the controversy and doesn't have the guts to stand up for it, so they're gonna neuter Catwoman and water it down with a woman doing all the work so it will all be safe. I mean we can have ONE edgy, sexy character, if ALL the heroines weren't like Catwoman with being oversexualized people might not have an issue with Catwoman. Although there are quality heroines who aren't super sexy with it on the surface like Catwoman, but still. I mean, as long as it's not done in a slapstick humorous kind of way, I don't see the problem. The Starfire thing was done in this goofy, stupid kind of way, and then she walks up to some guy and just blurts out a question like THAT? It was all so dumb to me. Catwoman was seducing some evil mobster so she could take him out. Women using their special skills as being sexy has always worked in many stories, it didn't start with Catwoman. Just my opinion, however. Just out of curiosity, though, do you happen to have that paper available to e-mail? LOL I would LOVE to read it.

#98 Posted by CatBoy (36 posts) - - Show Bio

*Spoilers Ahead*

@chipsnopotatoes: LOL I didn't need to change my mind about Anne Hathaway. She still annoys me tremendously. But, she and Nolan did a good job with Selina Kyle. I loved her ties to the pre-New52 Selina, and LOVED Holly's part in it, albeit small. Just like Ledger, I forgot that it was Hathaway, and was just a long for the ride. I loved that she used men like kleenex, and I saw a little dominatrix in her performance with how she dominates the men around her. I also loved that they made Selina Batman's equal.

As far as Nocenti, I too wish she would do some research in to Selina's history - but she also stated that her editor will point her to some past stories for ideas. I understand why she wants to go into this series blindly, because whether we like it or not, this is a new Selina. I don't mind her not seeing the film because it's a completely different Batman story.

Now with Hathaway's first two scenes in the film... she wanted to leave the life she was leading since the beginning - that's why she was stealing Wayne's fingerprints... to get the clean slate. So, reform and redemption was her whole intention.

#99 Posted by chipsnopotatoes (330 posts) - - Show Bio

@CatBoy said:

*Spoilers Ahead*

@chipsnopotatoes: LOL I didn't need to change my mind about Anne Hathaway. She still annoys me tremendously. But, she and Nolan did a good job with Selina Kyle. I loved her ties to the pre-New52 Selina, and LOVED Holly's part in it, albeit small. Just like Ledger, I forgot that it was Hathaway, and was just a long for the ride. I loved that she used men like kleenex, and I saw a little dominatrix in her performance with how she dominates the men around her. I also loved that they made Selina Batman's equal.

As far as Nocenti, I too wish she would do some research in to Selina's history - but she also stated that her editor will point her to some past stories for ideas. I understand why she wants to go into this series blindly, because whether we like it or not, this is a new Selina. I don't mind her not seeing the film because it's a completely different Batman story.

Now with Hathaway's first two scenes in the film... she wanted to leave the life she was leading since the beginning - that's why she was stealing Wayne's fingerprints... to get the clean slate. So, reform and redemption was her whole intention.

Haha! I think Nolan's genius is coming up with a Selina Kyle that you and I both like! Loved her too. Every freaking scene. Especially when she was just Selina and not Catwoman. I would watch a heist movie with Selina Kyle (Hathaway & Nolan's with a little Bale thrown in) even without her ever donning her Catwoman outfit at all.

As for Nocenti, going international is a good direction, but I dread what she's been saying in her interviews about Selina's particular addiction to stealing and I particularly hated her depiction of Catwoman in Trail of the Gun.

The Selina I want to read about would be like Nolan's version even if she doesn't have the motivations of reform and redemption -- smart, manipulative, self-possessed, great at her job but doesn't let that define her. This is what I feel is lacking in Judd Winick's version (before I completely tuned out). His Selina is very immature IMO, like a 13 year old trapped in a twenty something's body. Not all that smart either.

#100 Posted by YMCMB (160 posts) - - Show Bio

They should have just let Winick do his thing and make Ann stay away, there's no way she's gonna be any better or equal to Winick.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.