Judd Winick's Catwoman Revamp: No Relationship with Batman

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Posted by No_Name_ (17403 posts) - - Show Bio

Last week comic fans were surprised when they saw the reveal of DC's upcoming Batgirl ongoing series. While the lovely Adam Hughes cover depicting a fiery redhead reaching out to her audience is certainly a beautiful image; it's also a very controversial one amongst the readership. When the reveal that the redhead is none other than Barbara Gordon, the current Oracle, fans had no problem holding back all kinds of emotions about the future of many of their favorite characters.

With the revamp and introduction of 52 new DC titles scheduled for release this fall, it's not just Barbara Gordon who'll be undergoing some serious changes; another very popular DC heroine that will also be seeing a facelift (albeit not literally) is Catwoman; something writer Judd Winick made clear in a recent interview.

== TEASER ==

The best way I can describe it is that it's going to be a lot of dark fun. Again, it's pretty damn violent! I won't lie to you...But she's a very, very particular character, which we are allowed to go many places with..."She's someone who is very aware of her sexuality, and we're letting her stay aware of it! [Laughs] On top of that is the fact that's she's not actually a superhero, nor is she a bad guy. She's a thief. She steals things...She's addicted to danger. She's also quite brilliant...There's a little bit of [an] "Ocean's 11" bent to this. She is not unlike a detective who has to do a bit of research, a bit of recon, she's got to find out where she's going and how and what tools she needs to have so she can get in and steal the thing she needs to steal.

I must confess, seeing Judd Winnick refer to Selina as "quite brilliant" does make my heart aflutter- although it does bring up questions about what the changes that Winnick will instill for Selina Kyle will be. Ever since Jeph Loeb's run on Batman with HUSH, Catwoman has appeared as less and less of a threat to Batman and more of an ally. In fact, the pair teamed up in HUSH and went so far as to solidify their romantic commitment to one another (if you can call it that). Following Hush and Zatanna's mind wipe trick in Infinite Crisis, Catwoman has grown relatively docile. Later, Selina teamed up with Dick Grayson in Battle for the Cowl and more recently with Poison Ivy to babysit Harley Quinn in Gotham City Sirens.

Over the course of the last several years, Catwoman has done a lot less stealing and become less and less of an anti-hero- and I would almost blame her romantic feelings toward Batman or that. Why is it that she lost her sense of self? Did she have to lose herself in order to be in love with Bruce Wayne? Is it really in character for Catwoman to be in love with Batman? Lately, the Catwoman that fans have grown familiar with is nothing like the Catwoman Judd Winick will be writing come the fall.

...If you are a thief the dumbest thing you can do is be involved with Batman in any way shape or form, and there she is. I think Batman and Catwoman make for a very interesting pairing, let's say.

So basically, no Batman and Catwoman relationship; but what about all the sexual tension that made Batman/Catwoman stories such a joy to read? Sure, I don't think these two characters should be together because when they have been, Selina always manages to lose her identity and self awareness- but to ensure they aren't involved in "any way shape or form" is a bit much, no?

If Judd Winick is taking Selina Kyle back to her roots as a self assured, self aware thief who is both well aware of her own sexuality and willing to do whatever it takes to get what she wants- sign me up. That's a Catwoman book I have been waiting for. I'm more than happy to see Catwoman the anti-hero make her return to comics, what about you? What do you think of the new direction Winick will take Catwoman? Do you think removing her relationship from Batman is a good idea?

Source CBR

#1 Posted by Amegashita (3601 posts) - - Show Bio

  What's the point of saying she's addicted to Batman in the summary then?

#2 Edited by MrUnknown (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

Really really bad idea! I hope this loses its flame really quick so no long term damage can be done. Where is Dini when you need him?!

#3 Posted by doordoor123 (3721 posts) - - Show Bio

This is for the best.

#4 Posted by longbowhunter (7286 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont mind the approach. I'm still on the fence about picking this up.
#5 Posted by blur1528 (1055 posts) - - Show Bio

Sounding good. I'll pick up the issue and see how it goes.

#6 Posted by EnSabahNurX (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

O_O I liked her with batman, to just erase that is just lazy writing because he doesn't want to deal with writing a relationship. Catwoman is back at square one again how irritating

#7 Posted by The Stegman (25022 posts) - - Show Bio

sounds good to me, i always found it dumb that selina, this hot, smart woman had her life revolving around Batman, give her her own identity again!

#8 Posted by HubrisRanger (144 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, Winick is punching all my right buttons with these statements. A heist book with an intelligent, confident female lead? Not afraid to shy away from violence and sexual content as the T+ rating implied? Complicating the Batman/Catwoman relationship again? Yes, yes and yes please.

#9 Posted by hitechlolife (194 posts) - - Show Bio

Judd's right it would be a dumb thing to do. He's the Batman. That doesn't mean she won't do it anyway.

#10 Posted by Mercy_ (92857 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm split on this, to be completely honest.

Moderator
#11 Posted by garrison12795 (33 posts) - - Show Bio

I rather missed their forbidden relationship.
#12 Posted by pikahyper (12399 posts) - - Show Bio
@Amegashita said:
  What's the point of saying she's addicted to Batman in the summary then?
I'm wondering that myself, little conflicting there.
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#13 Posted by Mbecks14 (2068 posts) - - Show Bio

Sounds interesting. She's a wild loose cannon. Isn't that who she is? Neither Hero nor villain. A thief who loves Batman and danger? That is Catwoman.

#14 Posted by lapis2 (40 posts) - - Show Bio

I gotta say "yawn" to catwoman.  the only thing about her I ever found interesting was her relationship with Bats. Its a book I never read anyway so Judd can do whatever he wants.

#15 Posted by sj_esposito (457 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always been partial to the Catwoman portrayed in Loeb's stories -- The Long Halloween and Dark Victory in particular. The way she was written in Hush, and thereafter, is alright, but I do feel like the character lost a bit of her vigor recently. 
 
I think Selina is interesting as a kind of witty, overtly devious character that will use anything -- including her sexuality -- to meet her own ends. 

#16 Posted by HubrisRanger (144 posts) - - Show Bio

@pikahyper said:

@Amegashita said:
What's the point of saying she's addicted to Batman in the summary then?
I'm wondering that myself, little conflicting there.

I read that as her being addicted to Batman as a foil. The solicit also says that she's most addicted to danger, and the thrill of almost being caught by Gotham's foremost crime fighter is likely to intensify that danger. Plus Batman is damned impressive, more so that the other rubes that Selina would rip off most of the time. I imagine there is a mutual respect between the two, as well as a mutual attraction. But like Winick says, an actual romantic relationship would endanger the lifestyle that Selina is addicted to too much to be a reasonable option.

#17 Posted by The Mast (790 posts) - - Show Bio

I just think this whole thing is a bad idea. I get it, they're a business, but we all know this will succeed or fail based on the fans they already have, not the new ones they think they'll gain.
 
I loved the sexual tension between the two. No matter how focused you are on a goal, as a man or woman, sexual urges are more powerful than fear gas. I could be defusing a nuke, but if my girl strolled in decked out in Victoria's Secret products, I'd probably be like, "Ok, there's 30 seconds on the countdown, I can spare 10 to look."
 
It made things crazy exciting between the two. Not sure how happy I am about this being gone. 
 
-The Mast

#18 Posted by CrimsonTempest (307 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure if awesome. It'll reinvigorate the character, to be sure, but, it's just going back to basics.

#19 Posted by pikahyper (12399 posts) - - Show Bio
@HubrisRanger: that makes sense.
Moderator
#20 Posted by ragdollpurps (15572 posts) - - Show Bio
@Amegashita said:
  What's the point of saying she's addicted to Batman in the summary then?
Exactly. And all he said was that being in any kind of relationship with him is dumb if you're a theif. Not that it wasn't going happen. I think someone jumped to conclusions here. There's no reason they'd say she's addicted to Batman if they weren't going to acknowledge their relationship in the series. 
#21 Posted by Axdemon (21 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't read that as Winnick saying the relationship was going to be axed, simply that it is an intriguing avenue to explore. I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions just yet about who will and won't still be soulmates just quite yet.

#22 Posted by Duo_forbidden (1161 posts) - - Show Bio

This does sound like a good idea for the reboot, but then again, I'm mixed on the decision. Ever since Bruce revealed to her that he was Batman, I thought the stories with Batman and Catwoman were even better than before.
But then again, after what's been going on with Gotham City Sirens, maybe this is for the best.

#23 Posted by ScarlettLynn (160 posts) - - Show Bio

I think you're reading a bit extra into the interview beyond what's there. I don't think he's clarified the state of their relationship one way or the other based on the full interviews I've read with Winick.

#24 Posted by shawn87 (2095 posts) - - Show Bio

" the fact that's she's not actually a superhero, nor is she a bad guy. She's a thief." 
 
I thought it was funny how he states she's not a bad guy, she's a thief. Like they're two different things. Aren't thieves bad people? lol 
 
Anyways I love Catwoman and I wouldn't want them to change that about her. That wasn't what I was trying to get at. I do like Judd Winick and I hope the better part of him comes up with some great stories for her. I would love to read an awesome Catwoman series that's true to her character. 

#25 Posted by DMC (1551 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess I would be ok with this as long as Winick doesn't start completely from square 1 and they don't know each other at all. A story explanation would be nice but we probably won't get that. 
 
i guess I wouldn't mind seeing Selina tug at Batman's heartstrings more often, using his attraction to her to her advantage,

#26 Posted by HubrisRanger (144 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawn87 said:

" the fact that's she's not actually a superhero, nor is she a bad guy. She's a thief." I thought it was funny how he states she's not a bad guy, she's a thief. Like they're two different things. Aren't thieves bad people? lol

To use the example he does, do you think that the main characters from the Ocean's 11 movies are bad people?

#27 Posted by Wolverine0628 (398 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought that Bruce revealing his secret identity to Catwoman was completely out of character.  I prefer the way they were written together in Dark Victory and some of the other older stories.
#28 Posted by Chibi-Iroh (388 posts) - - Show Bio

Um at what point in his statements did he say that she wouldn't have a relationship with Bruce, because it sounded to me like they were going to be an interesting pairing to write for.

#29 Posted by Shock Tower (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Uh..with no Catwoman/Batman thing..what is to come of Huntress.  I mean..she is their daughter.  I mean yes its from the second earth and all that, but they are really going too far just changing stuff like that.

#30 Posted by StarKiller809 (1238 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll be honest and say that I never like Selina and Bruce together.
#31 Posted by Emperormeister734 (819 posts) - - Show Bio

NOT CATWOMAN! PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS RIGHTEOUS ANYONE BUT HER!

#32 Posted by ArtisticNeedham (2272 posts) - - Show Bio

I just read Catwoman's Big Score, and its a lot like Ocean's 11, what with all the planning, finding the guys she needs, doing what she needs to in the end.  If thats what they will make her like then thats fine by me, I was unaware she wasn't like that in the current comics.
I understand her not being involved with Batman, but I liked her role in Hush.  Wonder if these revamps will go along with the movies at all.  Will Catwoman in the comics now run side by side with the Anne Hathaway Catwoman in the movie?

#33 Posted by Casshern (142 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't stay a harden anything if your in Love with an actual person...hmmmm?
 
So this idea that the character left her ways for Batman is true...she likes her life, but she wants Batman (another Great Jewel to steal). 
 
Of course this theory gets thrown out the Mother F***** Window when you here Killers and Super-Solider Nazis having Children and still being Evil! 
 
This story can work with Batman desire or not, and since its a revamp, NO Batman is just easier to write, then telling the drama in half of the 52 issues, how they broke up.  

#34 Posted by No_Name_ (17403 posts) - - Show Bio

@Chibi-Iroh said:

Um at what point in his statements did he say that she wouldn't have a relationship with Bruce, because it sounded to me like they were going to be an interesting pairing to write for.

...If you are a thief the dumbest thing you can do is be involved with Batman in any way shape or form

#35 Posted by HexThis (902 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually find Selina's sexuality to be the most thoroughly overused aspect of her character. At this point, there's enough associated with her character in terms of sexuality that the audience doesn't need to be convinced of. 
 
What's really interesting, if you ask me, is that Bob Kane intended her to be the female equivalent to Bruce. Like Bruce she was was orphaned yet unlike Bruce it was by her own parent's doing, like Bruce she showed remarkable resilience but unlike Bruce she's the working class "costumed freak", like Bruce she operates on a code of moral and still unlike Bruce her morality is her own. She's a character who has perspective that tinges and provokes Batman just enough to shoot out sparks from both directions. 
 
So I don't want a temptress Selina or a fickle thief who doesn't know where her loyalties lie, I want a Selina who's self-made and has no problem getting down and gritty in order to pull off a heist. I also want a Selina Kyle who is not a prostitute, for god's sake.

#36 Posted by niamahai (39 posts) - - Show Bio

Well sounds like they're writing her like how Kevin Smite depict the character in his mini-series (the one with St. Cloud).

Selina : "Bruce! Don't go! I'm not wearing panties!"

/cringe

On another note, I don't like how that March guy draws ladies.

Its like he always try to make the panel focus on their ass a lot. Even Ed Benes don't go as ass crazy like him.

#37 Posted by Renee (10289 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know about you miss kitty, but I feel...so much yummier.

#38 Posted by Chibi-Iroh (388 posts) - - Show Bio
@Babs said:

@Chibi-Iroh said:

Um at what point in his statements did he say that she wouldn't have a relationship with Bruce, because it sounded to me like they were going to be an interesting pairing to write for.

...If you are a thief the dumbest thing you can do is be involved with Batman in any way shape or form

See that just sounds to me like he is going to change the dynamic of their relationship but still have them together in some capacity.
#39 Posted by The Mast (790 posts) - - Show Bio
@shawn87 said:
" the fact that's she's not actually a superhero, nor is she a bad guy. She's a thief."  I thought it was funny how he states she's not a bad guy, she's a thief. Like they're two different things. Aren't thieves bad people? lol  Anyways I love Catwoman and I wouldn't want them to change that about her. That wasn't what I was trying to get at. I do like Judd Winick and I hope the better part of him comes up with some great stories for her. I would love to read an awesome Catwoman series that's true to her character. 
Someone who steals isn't necessarily a bad person. I think illegal downloaders are douches for doing it, but they're not necessarily bad people overall. If you steal bread to feed your starving family, are you bad?
 
-The Mast
#40 Posted by Pokeysteve (8414 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mast said:
@shawn87 said:
" the fact that's she's not actually a superhero, nor is she a bad guy. She's a thief."  I thought it was funny how he states she's not a bad guy, she's a thief. Like they're two different things. Aren't thieves bad people? lol  Anyways I love Catwoman and I wouldn't want them to change that about her. That wasn't what I was trying to get at. I do like Judd Winick and I hope the better part of him comes up with some great stories for her. I would love to read an awesome Catwoman series that's true to her character. 
Someone who steals isn't necessarily a bad person. I think illegal downloaders are douches for doing it, but they're not necessarily bad people overall. If you steal bread to feed your starving family, are you bad?  -The Mast
She isn't stealing to feed her family. She steals because she's greedy and can't help herself haha.
#41 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio

From his interview I read on CBR I like what he had to say, I'm not the least bit worried about Selina and Bruce's "relationship" seeing as how they aren't officially together now and weren't for very long during Hush. I love the way that Loeb wrote her in his Long Halloween, Dark Victory days but found her less and less interesting as writers started toning her down to make her more palatable to those who wanted her to go full on good girl so she can be with Bruce. Seems like Winick's going to give the kitten her claws back and I'm all for it. To me their sexual tension and irresistible allure for one another was stronger when Selina was written this way.  

#42 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

Making her into an individual that walks the fine line between good and evil is fine...taking out the potentialities in romance between her and Bruce..not so much.

#43 Posted by ILuvMsMarvel (109 posts) - - Show Bio
@shawn87 said:
" the fact that's she's not actually a superhero, nor is she a bad guy. She's a thief."  I thought it was funny how he states she's not a bad guy, she's a thief. Like they're two different things. Aren't thieves bad people?   
 
By that line of thinking there are a lot of "bad people" all across the comics worlds. Those who are currently thieves, those who have been thieves, the industry is full of them. 
 
When they first announced this whole revamp thing, I had my doubts that it would be a viable change; but as they keep bringing out these bits of what they are doing to who, it's looking pretty good.
#44 Posted by Supachicken (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Sounds like a good re-butt, em-em reboot, hell yeah keep her over sexualized persona its one of her greatest attributes (no pun intended) and weapons as long as its done cleverly and for the benefit of the character.  
 
No romantic relationship with the Dark Knight, if anything she needs to use her association with Batman, financially or sexually, string him along and dump him like a bad smell but keep him frustrated, I'd read that book.

Excited to see this reboot I hope she kicks gluteus maximus ;p

#45 Posted by AlKusanagi (610 posts) - - Show Bio

They've got copies of Arkham City to sell come mid-October. The relationship ain't going nowhere.

#46 Posted by zombietag (1497 posts) - - Show Bio

cat woman and black cat are similar

#47 Posted by The Mast (790 posts) - - Show Bio
@Pokeysteve said:
@The Mast said:
@shawn87 said:
" the fact that's she's not actually a superhero, nor is she a bad guy. She's a thief."  I thought it was funny how he states she's not a bad guy, she's a thief. Like they're two different things. Aren't thieves bad people? lol  Anyways I love Catwoman and I wouldn't want them to change that about her. That wasn't what I was trying to get at. I do like Judd Winick and I hope the better part of him comes up with some great stories for her. I would love to read an awesome Catwoman series that's true to her character. 
Someone who steals isn't necessarily a bad person. I think illegal downloaders are douches for doing it, but they're not necessarily bad people overall. If you steal bread to feed your starving family, are you bad?  -The Mast
She isn't stealing to feed her family. She steals because she's greedy and can't help herself haha.
The question was, "Aren't thieves bad people?" The answer is, "No, not necessarily."
 
-The Mast
#48 Posted by The Devil Tiger (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I the only one that feel that DC as just taken Joe Quesada as an undercover writer ? 
#49 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13408 posts) - - Show Bio

if im not mistaken, it was Tim Drake she teamed with not Dick but still pretty much the same effect. so there was really no need for me to bring it up in the first place. shutting up now
#50 Posted by Pokeysteve (8414 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mast said:
@Pokeysteve said:
@The Mast said:
@shawn87 said:
" the fact that's she's not actually a superhero, nor is she a bad guy. She's a thief."  I thought it was funny how he states she's not a bad guy, she's a thief. Like they're two different things. Aren't thieves bad people? lol  Anyways I love Catwoman and I wouldn't want them to change that about her. That wasn't what I was trying to get at. I do like Judd Winick and I hope the better part of him comes up with some great stories for her. I would love to read an awesome Catwoman series that's true to her character. 
Someone who steals isn't necessarily a bad person. I think illegal downloaders are douches for doing it, but they're not necessarily bad people overall. If you steal bread to feed your starving family, are you bad?  -The Mast
She isn't stealing to feed her family. She steals because she's greedy and can't help herself haha.
The question was, "Aren't thieves bad people?" The answer is, "No, not necessarily."  -The Mast
No you're right. Not all thieves are bad people. Selina certainly isn't good though. She doesn't steal for any noble reason. She's bored and she is great at robbing people. Also because she can. That makes her a bad person. 

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