Catwoman Then And Now: How Much Has Changed?

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#51 Posted by FoxxFireArt (3404 posts) - - Show Bio
@knighthood
Not sure how well that's going to work out for your desire to see Nocenti off the book. If people are buying it. DC is just going to think people like what she's doing. It doesn't matter what people say on a message board. It's the sales that influence publishers.
#52 Posted by CtrlAltDesign (2 posts) - - Show Bio

meow.

#53 Posted by SolthesunGod (278 posts) - - Show Bio

Just a short comment. I really enjoyed this article and the Wonder Woman one. It would cool if you kept them up with DC's other leading ladies.

#54 Posted by Jimay94 (16 posts) - - Show Bio

as far as im concerned, the real Catwoman isnt in the dc comics anymore. i didnt 100% like what judd was doing but he understands the character WAY more than nocenti does. he showed her some one who was reckless cuz its early in her carer but who is a good person. she wanted to help save those victims from doll house when the police were not doing anything, THATS more like her character. until they get rid of this origin and do something similar to brubaker then she isnt the real Selina we all know and love. as for her relationship with Batman, i was really mad and dissapointed that everything they had developed pre-flashpoint isnt in the new continuity, but i guess it gives wrighters a chance to wright more stories for their realationship develping for the new readers who havent seen their early stages.

#55 Edited by chipsnopotatoes (330 posts) - - Show Bio

I, for one, would be happy if they totally did away with the prostitute origin. It's a double edged sword that could go very very wrong depending on the writer (Judd Winick, I'm looking at you). I was hoping they'd give her something that's a more logical progression towards becoming a world class thief; however, this Batman Returns origin was a lazy way out. And written so haphazardly that it's really insulting to even call it an origin issue for the character. Maybe they knew how ridiculous it was that's why she has another "secret origin" in Catwoman #13

As for the other points in this article, I disagree that her sole motivation now is an attraction to shiny objects. In Winick's run, if you go back to Issue #3 (which was the peak of this series), Selina stole because she thought she was good at it. I have no problems with that. It's like how someone who's quantitatively inclined likes to do math quizzes. It's honing a skill and a livelihood. I never really cared if she was doing it for herself or being Robin Hood. The latter is less interesting, frankly. In Nocenti's issue, she's stealing as an emotional crutch. She had a bad encounter which hurt her ego so she goes stealing to make herself feel better. Maybe that's her equivalent of going to a spa after long stressful day. I don't really have a problem with either of the above.

What really irks me about this DCnUked Catwoman is that she's pretty much lost her smarts, cunning and class (Winick's Selina is described as the Monica Lewinsky of the Batman Family by one reviewer)

1. Winick's Catwoman is unnecessarily violent, reckless to the point of stupid, self destructive and has low self esteem (identifying with Dollhouse and calling herself a monster? Yuck.) I've always thought that to be a world class thief, she would have to do a lot more prep work/planning/strategizing but Winick never really upped her game from these two bit heists he has her pulling. She's probably just a notch above a pickpocket. Not at all worth my time and money. I'm glad he was given his marching papers (and, no, I don't believe the face saving excuse that he was only signed up for 12 issues).

2. As for Ann's first issue, all I can say is so much for "Accidental Feminist" because it was a trainwreck. The concepts weren't bad but it was executed very poorly. And I really don't think she gets Selina at all based on her interviews and past history with the character. Anyone who's read Trail of the Gun would have known that. I hope her run is short because it won't be sweet.

As for who I'd love to see on this book, I recently came across this article by Paul Tobin (currently penning Bionic Woman) on his favorite female character. I've never read anything of his, but, boy, does he get Catwoman! Why isn't Mike Marts/Rachel Gluckstern knocking on his door yet?

http://www.paultobin.net/?p=4914

Excerpts:

But, having talked about great Catwoman writers, what exactly are the elements that make a great Catwoman writer? What traits make her who she is? For me, it’s simple… she has no need to prove herself, and she’s still doing it. Her life is one that could have crushed her, but it didn’t. She enjoys the lure of crime, but doesn’t want anybody to get hurt. She’s comfortable with who she is, but that doesn’t mean she’s not constantly striving to be better. She’s comfortable with criminals. She’s comfortable with heroes. She’s comfortable with the rich. She’s comfortable with the poor. She’s comfortable shouting. She’s comfortable with silence. She’s comfortable with men. She’s comfortable with women. She’s always balanced on the absolute verge of falling completely away, but… she’s comfortable.

I wanted to high five him so much. I don't really understand why DC is pushing this damaged personality on Catwoman fans.

And here's another gem:

Worse, this is from a "man-hater" storyline, and I despise such things. If a writer decides to pen a strong female character, and gives her a trait of "she hates men!"... then the author ISN'T writing a strong female character, they're writing a weak male's fear.

Bravo. Women don't need to be written like they're perpetually on PMS in order to be considered strong or bad ass.

#56 Posted by mpgeist (75 posts) - - Show Bio

Nolan treated her better than any comic has since Brubaker's run. Except maybe the two issues of Batman Incorporated she was in.

#57 Posted by wickedfun (61 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing that ticks me off with the new series is, after all Selina has been through you'd think she'd grow up, but no she's a trainwreck. Judd Winick seemed to be going the right route as of late but then they decide to hand over the series to Ann Nocenti and I'm a tad concerned for Selina. After the horrible reviews for her origins issue which Ms. Nocenti wrote (which I haven't read simply due to the fact that I might gouge my eyes out in horror) I'm scared for Selina's future. I don't want her series being cancelled as it's my only means of getting my monthly Catwoman fix. I've been a fan of hers ever since I was a wee little tot, and I intend to remain. I just wish DC would get it together!

#58 Edited by dizzybone011 (11 posts) - - Show Bio

When I got the Catwoman Zero issue, it took me three days finish it after looking at the first three page...

#59 Posted by TDK_1997 (15089 posts) - - Show Bio

With the recent #0 I was really surprised with what they have done to her in the bad way.After this issue I think I will definitely drop the book.I just don't like the direction of where it's going.

#60 Posted by zachkastner (188 posts) - - Show Bio

I just spliced Brubaker's Catwoman into my headcanon DCnU. She is out and roaming, I'm just not buying her series anymore. Turning a blind eye to her corner of Gotham means she can stay the character she was in my head after Brubaker's run.

Then when I see her pop up in "Night of the Owls" or "Death of the Family" all I see is Ed's Selina. :D I'm happy. SEE.

#61 Posted by Perfect 10 (1242 posts) - - Show Bio

thanks for this mini tribute to one of my fave characters but everyone seems to forget that this is a NEW universe that is just starting. costume heros and villains have only been around for less then 10 years (bruce was batman for two years before joining justice league which was five years ago). taking that into account we are back at square one with a lot of characters (teen titans, supergirl, superboy, the ravagers, etc.). this is them as they first started out. catwoman was a costumed theif for what 60 years? sure sometimes she teamed up with birds of prey or batman but for the most part she was a villain. then in her second ongoing she became the robin hood-esque crime fighter that newer readers know. i started reading catwoman from the 90s and i actually preferred her life as a thief who would on occasion fight on the side of the angels. so that was why i was excited for this series but when judd winick went away all my dreams were shot. and looking at the sales figures for nocenti's first issue of catwoman (which was an awful issue) she's not going away anytime soon but the selina kyle i know no longer exists :(

#62 Posted by Perfect 10 (1242 posts) - - Show Bio

@CaioTrubat: what? that cover is HOTT!

#63 Posted by Red_Jack (285 posts) - - Show Bio

I gotta be honest, I only ever liked Catwoman in one way: as a pesky catburglar in Batman comics. Loved the way Doug Moench writes her. Never liked her solo series. Didn't like how she got to be one of those who know Batmans identity. Didn't like how Black Mask was reduced to becoming more of a Catwoman enemy instead of a Batman enemy.

I have been actively trying to avoid reading anything regarding the New 52... I don't even know what a "New 52" is. But if they've changed Catwomans origins in the way that posters here have put it, I wont be too impressed with this New 52 malarky.

#64 Posted by Capitão Sicron (16 posts) - - Show Bio

Catwoman is a really fascinating character! I think she has something we all have, she is not a "completed person". She has doubts, she has uncertainties... She is until more "human" than Batman is. In fact, Batman sees black or white. Catwoman sees the gray... :D

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