The Enemy Within, Captain Marvel/Avengers Assemble Crossover.

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#1 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23238 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh, can't that series just be cancelled so DeConnick can stop ruining MS MARVEL already T__T

#3 Posted by Distraction (12 posts) - - Show Bio

Since I like both titles, I’m really looking forward to this.

#4 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@Distraction: It's nice to see a crossover where I don't need to buy other titles, because I already buy both. :)

Apart from the one-shot tie-in. But that's fine.

I'm kinda hoping Captain Marvel has a new artist by then though. I don't think the current one works too well with the series.

#5 Posted by Distraction (12 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@Distraction: It's nice to see a crossover where I don't need to buy other titles, because I already buy both. :)

Apart from the one-shot tie-in. But that's fine.

I'm kinda hoping Captain Marvel has a new artist by then though. I don't think the current one works too well with the series.

I don’t have anything against the current artist, but I think your right Andrade isn’t the best fit for this book. Who knows maybe Captain Marvel will get a new artist during or after the cross over.

#6 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@Distraction: I can imagine his style would fit well in a different setting, but it looks out of place here.

It'd be cool if Dexter Soy came back, but I'd probably be quite happy with Stefano Caselli, as he seems to draw her quite well in Avengers Assemble. Plus having the same artist on both titles would add a nice bit of consistency throughout the crossover.

#7 Posted by DJ1107 (244 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt: let's not have it cancelled since those book is actually awesome

#8 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh. Just ugh.

#9 Posted by DJ1107 (244 posts) - - Show Bio

@X35:

Please just stop your pointless hate against Captain Marvel it's getting old.

#10 Posted by X35 (5981 posts) - - Show Bio

Please just stop your pointless love for Captain Marvel it's getting old.

#11 Posted by Decoy Elite (29923 posts) - - Show Bio

Welp. Another event thingy.

Marvel just doesn't want me to enjoy a book at this point.

#12 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

Welp. Another event thingy.

Marvel just doesn't want me to enjoy a book at this point.

It's only over two titles, and possibly just five issues between them, so it's a very small event. :)

#13 Posted by Decoy Elite (29923 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@Decoy Elite said:

Welp. Another event thingy.

Marvel just doesn't want me to enjoy a book at this point.

It's only over two titles, and possibly just five issues between them, so it's a very small event. :)

Still I don't like how Marvel has to cram events into titles so often. I just want to read a strait up run without some tie ins for once.

#14 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@Decoy Elite said:

Welp. Another event thingy.

Marvel just doesn't want me to enjoy a book at this point.

It's only over two titles, and possibly just five issues between them, so it's a very small event. :)

Still I don't like how Marvel has to cram events into titles so often. I just want to read a strait up run without some tie ins for once.

Fair enough, I can understand that.

I read both series anyway, so I don't mind too much in this case.

#15 Posted by TDK_1997 (15064 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that Ms. Marvel is becoming a bad character more and more every day.

#16 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997 said:

I think that Ms. Marvel is becoming a bad character more and more every day.

How so?

#17 Edited by DMC (1551 posts) - - Show Bio

Man I was psyched for this book when it first came out, but it's died down a bit, partially because Dexter Soy's been absent and the last couple issues haven't done it for me. Low key day-in-the-life stuff is needed now and then I guess but loosing her ability to fly seems meh. Plus my pet peeve that the majority of artists (besides Soy) wont draw the helmet (best part of the costume imo) or get her new hairstyle right.

Anyway, I had big hopes for Carol as Captain Marvel, hopes that a bigger role in the Marvel U would be given to her. S.W.O.R.D would be nice especially since she's part of it in the Avengers EMH, and it's an ideal setting to slip in space adventures as well. She is a semi-cosmic character after all. S.W.O.R.D it's all but forgotten these days in the Marvel Universe. Will Abigail Brand even make it to Marvel NOW?

I'll admit I was pessimistic when I heard about the crossover, a low sails indicator that could lead to the end of Captain Marvel book. While that may be true, the premise of the crossover is interesting, so I'll buy it as long as it keeps the book going. Then maybe she can move on to bigger things down the road...we'll see : )

#18 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@DMC said:

Man I was psyched for this book when it first came out, but it's died down a bit, partially because Dexter Soy's been absent and the last couple issues haven't done it for me. Low key day-in-the-life stuff is needed now and then I guess but loosing her ability to fly seems meh. Plus my pet peeve that the majority of artists (besides Soy) wont draw the helmet (best part of the costume imo) or get her new hairstyle right.

Anyway, I had big hopes for Carol as Captain Marvel, hopes that a bigger role in the Marvel U would be given to her. S.W.O.R.D would be nice especially since she's part of it in the Avengers EMH, and it's an ideal setting to slip in space adventures as well. She is a semi-cosmic character after all. S.W.O.R.D it's all but forgotten these days in the Marvel Universe. Will Abigail Brand even make it to Marvel NOW?

I'll admit I was pessimistic when I heard about the crossover, a low sails indicator that could lead to the end of Captain Marvel book. While that may be true, the premise of the crossover is interesting, so I'll buy it as long as it keeps the book going. Then maybe she can move on to bigger things down the road...we'll see : )

I'm missing Dexter Soy too, his issues were really cool. I thought Emma Rios; issues were alright, but I'm not a fan of Filipe Andrade on the recent issues. I think the source of her not being able to fly is to be explored in the crossover, so we could see some interesting insights on it.

Whilst sales are admittedly a bit low, I don't know if the crossover is a sales tactic. I'm only saying this as Kelly Sue Deconnick writes both titles, so maybe she just felt like this was the best way to tell the story? Maybe it is a sales thing though.

I'm hoping the crossover will mean a new artist on Captain Marvel. Avengers Assemble seems to stick to good standard artists, so hopefully we'll get an artist more like that. It'd be weird for the story to switch between Filipe Andrades' abstract designs and something more normal.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to it, and I'm also interested to see where things go in the future. :)

#19 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

I've just seen the solicits for May and June, and we now know that Scott Hepburn will be providing art for The Enemy Within one shot, and Captain Marvel #13, and Matteo Buffagni will be providing art for Avengers Assemble #16. They both seem to be pretty good from what I've found, and they look like they're similar enough to not be distracting when crossing between titles.

And there are covers available:

June solicits here: http://www.newsarama.com/comics/marvel-comics-june-2013-solicitations.html

#20 Posted by daedalus25 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Ugh, can't that series just be cancelled so DeConnick can stop ruining MS MARVEL already T__T

My sentiments exactly. The series has pitiful sales right now - it needs to be canned ASAP so that a competent writer can come along and bring Ms. Marvel back to her former glory.

#21 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@daedalus25 said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Ugh, can't that series just be cancelled so DeConnick can stop ruining MS MARVEL already T__T

My sentiments exactly. The series has pitiful sales right now - it needs to be canned ASAP so that a competent writer can come along and bring Ms. Marvel back to her former glory.

What are you not liking about it?

#22 Edited by Soupnazi (32 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously, guys, not liking the new series is fine, but fans of the series might actually like to discuss it without every other post being "I don't like this." If you're not going to quantify your negative opinions so as to start discussion, you're just being rude.

#23 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@soupnazi said:

Seriously, guys, not liking the new series is fine, but fans of the series might actually like to discuss it without every other post being "I don't like this." If you're not going to quantify your negative opinions so as to start discussion, you're just being rude.

Well put. :)

Do you have any thoughts on the crossover, or the series in general?

Welcome to Comicvine. :)

#24 Posted by Soupnazi (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: The crossover looks really interesting. As one would expect, I really like DeConnick's writing, and this tumor plotline is metaphorically killing me. I can't wait to see where it goes.

Thanks! I've been lurking for a while, and provided a bit of stuff for the Captain Marvel (2012) page, and the unreasoned hate brought me out of the woodworks. Grumble grumble.

#25 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@soupnazi: I expect it'll be good. I'm wondering how the tumor problem will be incorporated into the plot. I imagine they're linked somehow.

Do you buy both titles already then? I only started reading Avengers Assemble when Kelly Sue took over, so I don't know how important Carol was to the stories before that. I liked her appearances so far, and it's nice to see that she'll be involved again. I kinda hope she'll be a regular in the series after the crossover.

No problem. Hope you enjoy being out of the woodworks. :)

#26 Posted by Soupnazi (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: Yeah. I can only wonder if there's going to be a proper villain. The lack of information really has me scared! XD

Nah, I only read CM--I'm afraid to buy any comics other than it because I don't want to go down that rabbit hole. Ever since I got a Ms. Marvel (2005) copy when I was a kid, I've been fond of Carol for no particular reason, and upon hearing of the new series I was intrigued enough to check it out, but I'm still not a huge comics person.

I hope I do too. :)

#27 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@soupnazi: I think the villain is called The Magnitron, which makes me think he must be Kree, and I'm guessing it's probably that guy in the hat who's been skulking around.

You'd maybe like it. Kelly Sue DeConnick has been the writer for the last five issues, Carol has been in three of them, and Spider-Woman's been in all five.

#28 Posted by Soupnazi (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: Ooh, Kree! That sounds really cool. Thanks for the info.

Yeah, I've seen some stuff from it on Tumblr--I'll probably check it out when/if it gets a trade paperback.

#29 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@soupnazi: Amazon says it'll be out on August 27th. It doesn't say which issues are in it, but it's called Science Bros, which was the name of the #9-11 arc, and the cover shows the three characters that were focused on in #12-13, so it seems that it'll include these issues. It might also have the Age Of Ultron tie-ins that are coming out in the next two months, but I don't know for sure.

#30 Posted by Soupnazi (32 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Edited by daedalus25 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

@soupnazi said:

Seriously, guys, not liking the new series is fine, but fans of the series might actually like to discuss it without every other post being "I don't like this." If you're not going to quantify your negative opinions so as to start discussion, you're just being rude.

You've got a point, and I apologize for the rudeness to her current fans, but I think we previous fans of Ms. Marvel have every right to be angry at the rudeness that was given to us. (Not trying to justify any attempt to derail this thread but offering an explanation of sorts.) Given that you claimed to be just a kid when reading the previous Ms. Marvel run, you're far younger than most of us and don't have the decades of experience growing up with Ms. Marvel before this change. Granted not all of it was good - some of it was absolutely awful. But we stuck by her and watched new writers take her away from the nonsense and bring her back to her glory. Then in 2006, Brian Reed brought her to near perfection, and her sales were amazing for a female-led comic book. She stayed in the top 20 for quite a while. We fans love her costume, her name, her attitude - we love Ms. Marvel. Then for absolutely no reason at all, Marvel decided to try and destroy her again. After the whole Secret Invasion event, her stories have been going downhill. Then Marvel decided to do what has been proven time and time again to fail. They decided to change her name and costume. It didn't work as Binary. It didn't work as Warbird. And it's not working as Captain Marvel.

I get that there are some fans out there that like this name, costume, and self-doubting personality. But why didn't Marvel just create a new character and leave Carol alone for her fans? It would have taken absolutely no effort to create a new female, give her this costume and let her take the codename of "Captain Marvel". They did it before when they first created Monica Rambeau. Why couldn't they do it again with another new character? No, instead they decided, let's piss off Carol Danvers fans and have her morph into something they won't even recognize anymore.

I'm positive she'll return to the name "Ms. Marvel" with her black costume again. There's very little doubt of that. It could be next year. It could be five years from now. That's the nature of comic books. Look at what DC did with Power Girl. They tried changing her (into something even worse than Ms. Marvel), and now they're returning her to her iconic look. The most popular versions of a character always cycle around, but frankly some of us are getting tired of waiting for it. Hence you'll see negativity cropping up fairly regularly.

#32 Edited by Soupnazi (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@daedalus25: Erm, I really question the way you're calling DeConnick's Carol "self-doubting" as if it's a bad thing, and also criticizing the new costume and name as if wearing a more tasteful (and, let's be real, personality-fitting--why would Carol ever want to fight bad guys in a swimsuit?) costume and authoritative name isn't the opposite of that. And let me tell you, when I look at DeConnick's Carol, I'm seeing a woman who's refusing to believe that a brain tumor could be negatively affecting her, whereas I've got a Ms. Marvel in my lap where she says how she "don't [doesn't] deserve a friend like this." You're crying foul about how Carol's being "ruined" and isn't even recognizable, but I'm looking at a Ms. Marvel quote ("William? It's Carol. I'm outside your restaurant and, well, I came to see you, but then this crazy lady named--get this--Battleaxe started swinging--you guessed it--battleaxes at me.") and thinking about how snarky and cool she is, then looking at Captain Marvel (To Chewie: "Don't answer that. I meant the question, not the phone. I'm answering the phone. You don't have thumbs") and seeing the same awesome character.

And finally, "tired of waiting for it"? DeConnick's Carol hasn't even been around for a year.

#33 Posted by Soupnazi (32 posts) - - Show Bio

On that note, here are a few examples of DeConnick's Captain Marvel. I'm not sure how much of it you've read, and these were taken for a general appreciation post and thus don't show off Carol specifically, but they do give a bit of a feel of her character. (Self-doubting indeed.)

#34 Posted by Oscars94 (2621 posts) - - Show Bio
#35 Posted by Soupnazi (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@oscars94:Yeah! He's not there for long (just a tiny bit more than that cap), but he's pretty hilarious.

#36 Posted by Strider92 (16825 posts) - - Show Bio

@oscars94: Yep thats Pete. This was pre-Superior back in Captain Marvel 1. Its kind of funny seeing how Dextor Soy drew Spider-man back then compared to how he drew him in ASM 6.

#37 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

Last two covers revealed. Nice ones too:

#38 Posted by Soupnazi (32 posts) - - Show Bio

The cover for Captain Marvel 14 is probably my favorite comic book cover. I mean, I certainly haven't seen a ton, but wow. Just.... WOW.

#39 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@soupnazi: I agree. I'd love it as a poster.

#40 Posted by Vance Astro (91403 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Ugh, can't that series just be cancelled so DeConnick can stop ruining MS MARVEL already T__T

My sentiments exactly. The series has pitiful sales right now - it needs to be canned ASAP so that a competent writer can come along and bring Ms. Marvel back to her former glory.

What about a writer change? Why does the book have to be canned for Marvel to get a new writer? Especially if sales are down? If they can it, we won't see Carol with her own title again for a long time and that will cut down on how often we see her severely.

Moderator
#41 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@daedalus25 said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Ugh, can't that series just be cancelled so DeConnick can stop ruining MS MARVEL already T__T

My sentiments exactly. The series has pitiful sales right now - it needs to be canned ASAP so that a competent writer can come along and bring Ms. Marvel back to her former glory.

What about a writer change? Why does the book have to be canned for Marvel to get a new writer? Especially if sales are down? If they can it, we won't see Carol with her own title again for a long time and that will cut down on how often we see her severely.

Very true. The only other title where she's a regular member is Avengers, and she has to compete for the spotlight with 17(rising to 23) other members. She's been in, and will be in Avengers Assemble, but as Kelly Sue DeConnick writes both titles, that may be why.(I haven't read the 3 issues she was in written by Brian Michael Bendis, so I don't know how important she was to the story in them). I think I'd only put up with a cancellation if it meant she'd be leading, and be the main focus, of a team title. Like an Operation Lightning Storm ongoing, or an Avengers team or something, but a solo title is still the best thing to have.

I like what Kelly Sue has been doing with the series, and I'd like her to continue, but writers do come and go now and again, so it's possible someone else will come along, and do things differently. I'll still read it, as I'm a Carol fan, and it's easily possible that I'd like it, but for now I'm quite happy with the writing.

Out of curiousity, what is it about Kelly Sue DeConnicks writing that makes you say that she's incompetent, and what would you suggest doing to bring Captain Marvel back to her former glory?

#42 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

I've just found out that the covers I've been showing are unfinished versions. Here are the proper, even better versions:

#43 Posted by Strider92 (16825 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: How is Captain Marvel doing storywise? I picked up the first few issues but was forced to drop it (as I wanted to follow Harbinger and at the time it was either that or Spider-man and being the hard-core Spidey fan I am I couldn't drop it). I've been hearing conflicting reports but i'm thinking of picking it back up again.

Thought i'd ask you as you're a fan. Fans are generally more knowledgeable than the haters lol.

#44 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92:

I've been enjoying it. It's been interesting recently as she's been dealing with a potentially quite serious health issue, and she's trying to carry on despite it, doing not bad. There's a mysterious villain out to get her, using Deathbird to try and weaken her. There've been a couple of other odd occurrences that could be down to this person, but it hasn't been stated outright.

It seems that this arc has elements that will be addressed in more detail in the mini-event, with a villain with a personal agenda against her and her health issue being important parts, which makes me think they must be linked.

The writing has generally been good. The dialogue works, the little bits of humour are nice, it's written in such a way that you really feel for her, and find yourself worried for her, which I haven't felt with a lot of comics. It's good to have some emotional attachment to the characters you're reading.

The artwork in the current arc has quite mixed opinions. I hated it to begin with, but I've kind of gotten used to it. There'll be a new artist for the next arc though, which I am glad about. It's not great, but it doesn't get in the way of the story. The artists handling the crossover seem to be more standard comic book style, so it might be a bit more reader friendly.

If you're looking to catch up, or jump back in, You may be able to start with the mini-event, but it might be useful to read this arc to set it up. If you know basically what's happened you might be alright. Issues #7-8 probably aren't vital to the story overall, but are still enjoyable, especially if you like Monica Rambeau. It was just a short story between arcs, but if you get the chance, I'd recommend it.

To sum up, it's been a good series, so if you like Carol and think it's your kind of thing, you're probably right. If you decide to jump back in, I hope you enjoy it. :)

#45 Edited by Strider92 (16825 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: Ok I might pick it up again. Honestly I tend to judge the comic on its writing rather than the art (although I do like it even more when a talented artist is on it) hence the reason i'm still reading Scarlet Spider for Yost's writing despite not liking Pham's art.

#46 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: I can understand that. If it's bad writing with good art, it's probably just good for looking at rather than actually getting any story out of it.

#47 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

Found some interesting, possibly kinda worrying quotes in an interview with Kelly Sue DeConnick.

Are there any specific details that you can tell us besides what’s already been released?

It’s an old Marvell foe, and someone with an axe to grind against Carol, and it’ll have big repercussions on Carol and Jessica’s relationship.

Well, it was just a matter of a Google search. Do you feel you’ve succeeded in that? And is that swagger going to be affected in any way by the events of the crossover?.

I do think I’ve been effective in it. Yes, it will be affected. Carol’s status quo is going to change. It’s going to be rough on some people (pauses). But I wouldn’t wanna do it if I didn’t think it was an interesting choice and good for her, you know?

I wonder what this could mean.

Full interview

here.

#48 Posted by Soupnazi (32 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh man, I really hope that this is indisputably awesome and there won't be a whole new wave of "waaah Kelly Sue DeConnick is ruining Carol Danvers!!!1!" At least I know I'll love more Carol/Jessica stuff. I didn't even know Jessica Drew existed before Captain Marvel, but she's really awesome.

#49 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6532 posts) - - Show Bio

@soupnazi: Seeing as "it’ll have big repercussions on Carol and Jessica’s relationship." , I'm guessing Jessica will be quite important in this arc. Repercussions is a scary word though. I hope they're not having a big falling out.

I really like Jessica too, so it'll be nice to see more of her. :)


#50 Edited by darthfury78 (943 posts) - - Show Bio

It's too bad that Marvel never considered adding Spider-Man and Spider-Woman in a guest spot with Captain Marvel for the first 3-issues against Omega Red from conducting a mutated Smallpox outbreak that would devastate the world. That alone would have kept the audience glued to the series as it could have maintained a 50K copy per month quota. And the intermission could have focus on her personal life outside of the Avengers working for Daily Bugle as Editor in Chief as her regular day job.

As for Carol's friendship with Jessica Drew, I would love to see more of that as well. Although, I would also prefer to see Jessica Drew and Natasha Romanoff's friendship with Peter Parker in a retrospective content between Peter's relationship with Felicia Hardy to his marriage to Mary Jane(excluding OMD).

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