Trial of Captain America...Good Idea\Bad Idea?

#1 Posted by Sempurna (62 posts) - - Show Bio

What do you think?

#2 Posted by jayskee (1903 posts) - - Show Bio

i like it
#3 Posted by ReVamp (22859 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmm... Well I thought it was interested, but it was incredibly stupid to have him walk down in open air... Not that it was that that killed him, but there should have been less people around and everything. But yeah I liked it... They should have gone with that instead of killing Cap, it should have ended like the What if? Y'know the one where they give all the Secret Identities of the Superheroes to cap. Yeah that one.

#4 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp:  I think he's talking about current Cap's trial.
#5 Posted by ReVamp (22859 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin:
Oh lol my bad. xD. To be honest, I am not reading the current Captain America stuff... but I think that depending on the outcome it can be both a good and a bad Idea. I'll probably get it when its collected since I really am kind of a Bucky Barnes fan and I am interested in seeing the outcome. 
Again, my bad sorry, lol, I was about to go on a rant and everything :P 
>-<
#6 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp:  Lol, no biggie.  It's hard to keep up with everything that's going on in all the titles.  I' ve been reading them, and it's been pretty good so far.  I think the trial is necessary for Bucky to really cement himself as Captain America.
#7 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the idea is pretty stupid.....

Moderator
#8 Posted by ReVamp (22859 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro:  
I can totally see why, the World shouldn't know the he was a killer, and if they did he shouldn't go to trial for it. Plus let us not forget that this was an act of war during the Cold War, many people have killed in war and gotten away with it. Why should he, after so much time go to prison for something other people got away with (even though they didn't go live in the enemy country - but still), happened so long ago and he was brainwashed. The last fact alone should end it.
@Green Skin said:
" @ReVamp:  Lol, no biggie.  It's hard to keep up with everything that's going on in all the titles.  I' ve been reading them, and it's been pretty good so far.  I think the trial is necessary for Bucky to really cement himself as Captain America. "

 
1. I knew that this was happening but since I haven't read it and it really isn't being mentioned in other books I kind of forgot about this when reading the thread :P 
2. Is this a good thing? Do we really want Bucky to cement himself with this identity? I think I'd prefer if he'd go back to being Winter Soldeir in some time.. not anytime soon since Steve is now the SHIELD director, but y'know, so when it happens Bucky isn't all sad to give up the Shield.
#9 Edited by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:

" @Vance Astro:  
I can totally see why, the World shouldn't know the he was a killer, and if they did he shouldn't go to trial for it. Plus let us not forget that this was an act of war during the Cold War, many people have killed in war and gotten away with it. Why should he, after so much time go to prison for something other people got away with (even though they didn't go live in the enemy country - but still), happened so long ago and he was brainwashed. The last fact alone should end it.

They shouldn't even know who Captain America is.He's not registered so why the hell are they putting him on trial.These are the type of ridiculous current continuity story arcs that are the reasoning behind me reading mostly old comics.The other thing that is killing me about this is if they send him to jail..everything they've done to build the character up would have been for nothing.I'm sick of Marvel doing that too.Don't make me like a character and then just ruin them.Hank Pym was the Leader of the Mighty Avengers and just became the Scientist Supreme..and what does Marvel do with him? They make him train the rookie Avengers in Avengers Academy.Why can't he be a damn Avenger? Why are they wasting roster space putting two characters on the same team? This is the same type of rhetoric to me.They never consider who actually grows to like these characters and how it effects the readers. I like how there's an actual trial for this when as you said...Bucky was brainwashed! He had no control over his actions.This whole thing is just stupid IMO.
Moderator
#10 Posted by ReVamp (22859 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
"@ReVamp said:

" @Vance Astro:  
I can totally see why, the World shouldn't know the he was a killer, and if they did he shouldn't go to trial for it. Plus let us not forget that this was an act of war during the Cold War, many people have killed in war and gotten away with it. Why should he, after so much time go to prison for something other people got away with (even though they didn't go live in the enemy country - but still), happened so long ago and he was brainwashed. The last fact alone should end it.

They shouldn't even know who Captain America is.He's not registered so why the hell are they putting him on trial.These are the type of ridiculous current continuity story arcs that are the reasoning behind me reading mostly old comics.The other thing that is killing me about this is if they send him to jail..everything they've done to build the character up would have been for nothing.I'm sick of Marvel doing that too.Don't make me like a character and then just ruin them.Hank Pym was the Leader of the Mighty Avengers and just became the Scientist Supreme..and what does Marvel do with him? They make him train the rookie Avengers in Avengers Academy.Why can't he be a damn Avenger? Why are they wasting roster space putting two characters on the same team? This is the same type of rhetoric to me.They never consider who actually grows to like these characters and how it effects the readers. I like how there's an actual trial for this when as you said...Bucky was brainwashed! He had no control over his actions.This whole thing is just stupid IMO. "


1. I doubt that he will stay in jail if he is sent.  
2. QFT - Hank needs more.   
I see your problems with this, but you are forgetting one thing. Bendis, the evil of this world. (joking, I don't even dislike Bendis) On a serious note, I don't know if you read the first story arc of the Avengers series. But what happened there was that basically they went into the future and saved the world blah blah blah, but then when they leave, there is this page where the guys in the future (don't want to spoil who, just in case), comment about how they hate Bucky and how he will Get what he deserves. Now if this trial is all to just make him go down a dark path (remind anyone of someone staring with D and ending in devil?), I will be pissed off to no end. Not because something bad will happen to him, no, I seriously dislike the idea but the fact that heroes (again don't want to spoil) in the future dislike him, means that he is gonna end up doing some serious BS. If that happens. I will... have one less title to stop buying Marvel Comics. And that is definitely not what Marvel needs people to do now.  
#11 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:
1. I doubt that he will stay in jail if he is sent.  
2. QFT - Hank needs more.   
I see your problems with this, but you are forgetting one thing. Bendis, the evil of this world. (joking, I don't even dislike Bendis) On a serious note, I don't know if you read the first story arc of the Avengers series. But what happened there was that basically they went into the future and saved the world blah blah blah, but then when they leave, there is this page where the guys in the future (don't want to spoil who, just in case), comment about how they hate Bucky and how he will Get what he deserves. Now if this trial is all to just make him go down a dark path (remind anyone of someone staring with D and ending in devil?), I will be pissed off to no end. Not because something bad will happen to him, no, I seriously dislike the idea but the fact that heroes (again don't want to spoil) in the future dislike him, means that he is gonna end up doing some serious BS. If that happens. I will... have one less title to stop buying Marvel Comics. And that is definitely not what Marvel needs people to do now.   "
He might not stay in jail but it seems that Brubaker is recycling his storylines.He already wrote a trial of Daredevil..recently too....  
My beef isn't even with Bendis anymore.It's with Marvel in general.Brubaker was one of my favorite writers a year ago...now I don't give a damn about anything he writes.His Secret Avengers sucks and his Cap died after the Baron Zemo arc.I was so happy with most of what he's written for Bucky..even when he was Winter Soldier but at this point it's getting stupid and this keeps happening with every book.Spider-Man and Hulk are the only books IMO (even with the Loeb arcs) are the only books that are staying true to the characters.
I don't know what's going to happen to Bucky but I feel like they are wasting issues with this trial.I can read a story with less actions and more story if the story doesn't suck.
Moderator
#12 Posted by War Killer (19485 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:
" @Vance Astro:  
I can totally see why, the World shouldn't know the he was a killer, and if they did he shouldn't go to trial for it. Plus let us not forget that this was an act of war during the Cold War, many people have killed in war and gotten away with it. Why should he, after so much time go to prison for something other people got away with (even though they didn't go live in the enemy country - but still), happened so long ago and he was brainwashed. The last fact alone should end it.
The fact of the matter s that Bucky committed terrorism on American soil, and the whole storyline is about this man who was brainwashed into doing this and is this man still responsible for those crimes even though he wasn't in control of his actions. Short answer: No, he wasn't; and should be pardoned like Steve had suggested to the President at the beginning of the arc, but Zemo screw Bucky over by showing the world what Bucky had done and when the media got a hold of it, people became selfish and the whole "Guilty until proven innocent" crap came into play. Now the government, being the chickens that they are, are afraid of "looking bad" to the American people and now "HAVE" to blame someone for this. As was said in the last issue, Bucky wasn't responsible, his programmers were, but since Lukin is dead, Bucky's the only one left to take the bullet for his brainwashed actions. It's morel like he's been framed for something he actually did to be honest.
 
But overall I think this has been a fantastic storyline, Bucky has been running away from his past and after what Zemo did, Bucky now has to face those sins to become the man he wants to be, to truly become Captain America.
#13 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:

The fact of the matter s that Bucky committed terrorism on American soil, and the whole storyline is about this man who was brainwashed into doing this and is this man still responsible for those crimes even though he wasn't in control of his actions. Short answer: No, he wasn't; and should be pardoned like Steve had suggested to the President at the beginning of the arc, but Zemo screw Bucky over by showing the world what Bucky had done and when the media got a hold of it, people became selfish and the whole "Guilty until proven innocent" crap came into play. Now the government, being the chickens that they are, are afraid of "looking bad" to the American people and now "HAVE" to blame someone for this. As was said in the last issue, Bucky wasn't responsible, his programmers were, but since Lukin is dead, Bucky's the only one left to take the bullet for his brainwashed actions. It's morel like he's been framed for something he actually did to be honest.  But overall I think this has been a fantastic storyline, Bucky has been running away from his past and after what Zemo did, Bucky now has to face those sins to become the man he wants to be, to truly become Captain America. "
The timing of this is off.I'm all for this Winter Soldier issue coming into effect but this should have been the first order of business in the Heroic Age.
Moderator
#14 Posted by War Killer (19485 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @War Killer said:

The fact of the matter s that Bucky committed terrorism on American soil, and the whole storyline is about this man who was brainwashed into doing this and is this man still responsible for those crimes even though he wasn't in control of his actions. Short answer: No, he wasn't; and should be pardoned like Steve had suggested to the President at the beginning of the arc, but Zemo screw Bucky over by showing the world what Bucky had done and when the media got a hold of it, people became selfish and the whole "Guilty until proven innocent" crap came into play. Now the government, being the chickens that they are, are afraid of "looking bad" to the American people and now "HAVE" to blame someone for this. As was said in the last issue, Bucky wasn't responsible, his programmers were, but since Lukin is dead, Bucky's the only one left to take the bullet for his brainwashed actions. It's morel like he's been framed for something he actually did to be honest.  But overall I think this has been a fantastic storyline, Bucky has been running away from his past and after what Zemo did, Bucky now has to face those sins to become the man he wants to be, to truly become Captain America. "
The timing of this is off.I'm all for this Winter Soldier issue coming into effect but this should have been the first order of business in the Heroic Age. "
What are you talking about? This story couldn't have happened without the No Escape storyline being first, Zemo believing that Bucky has to "earn" the shield was the whole reason we're even seeing a trial. Without Bucky's past being outed, no one would have ever known of the Winter Soldier and Bucky wouldn't be facing this all now. It's perfect timing actually.
#15 Edited by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:

What are you talking about? This story couldn't have happened without the No Escape storyline being first, Zemo believing that Bucky has to "earn" the shield was the whole reason we're even seeing a trial. Without Bucky's past being outed, no one would have ever known of the Winter Soldier and Bucky wouldn't be facing this all now. It's perfect timing actually. "

Sure it could have.The way Bucky got outted didn't have to happen exactly like that.They could have come up with something simpler and wrapped it up in a one-shot.
Moderator
#16 Posted by War Killer (19485 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @War Killer said:

What are you talking about? This story couldn't have happened without the No Escape storyline being first, Zemo believing that Bucky has to "earn" the shield was the whole reason we're even seeing a trial. Without Bucky's past being outed, no one would have ever known of the Winter Soldier and Bucky wouldn't be facing this all now. It's perfect timing actually. "

Sure it could have.The way Bucky got outted didn't have to happen exactly like that.They could have come up with something simpler and wrapped it up in a one-shot. "
How could a story that complicated be a one-shot?
#17 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:
" @Vance Astro said:
" @War Killer said:

What are you talking about? This story couldn't have happened without the No Escape storyline being first, Zemo believing that Bucky has to "earn" the shield was the whole reason we're even seeing a trial. Without Bucky's past being outed, no one would have ever known of the Winter Soldier and Bucky wouldn't be facing this all now. It's perfect timing actually. "

Sure it could have.The way Bucky got outted didn't have to happen exactly like that.They could have come up with something simpler and wrapped it up in a one-shot. "
How could a story that complicated be a one-shot? "
Read my post again...
Moderator
#18 Posted by War Killer (19485 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

" @War Killer said:

" @Vance Astro said:
" @War Killer said:

What are you talking about? This story couldn't have happened without the No Escape storyline being first, Zemo believing that Bucky has to "earn" the shield was the whole reason we're even seeing a trial. Without Bucky's past being outed, no one would have ever known of the Winter Soldier and Bucky wouldn't be facing this all now. It's perfect timing actually. "

Sure it could have.The way Bucky got outted didn't have to happen exactly like that.They could have come up with something simpler and wrapped it up in a one-shot. "
How could a story that complicated be a one-shot? "
Read my post again... "
And again I ask....

 "How could a story that complicated be a one-shot? "

This story is WAY too complicated to fit into something like a one-shot, Bucky KILLED people on American soil, was a terrorist for decades, how can you possibly have him face all of that in a simple one-shot? Even if you take Sin out of the picture, there's still so much they have cover that it's too much to just write off as a one time thing.
#19 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:

And again I ask....

 "How could a story that complicated be a one-shot? "

This story is WAY too complicated to fit into something like a one-shot, Bucky KILLED people on American soil, was a terrorist for decades, how can you possibly have him face all of that in a simple one-shot? Even if you take Sin out of the picture, there's still so much they have cover that it's too much to just write off as a one time thing. "
It doesn't take an entire arc for a trial.It's not so complicated that they need an entire arc to visit all the details.
Moderator
#20 Posted by ReVamp (22859 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:
" @ReVamp said:
" @Vance Astro:  
I can totally see why, the World shouldn't know the he was a killer, and if they did he shouldn't go to trial for it. Plus let us not forget that this was an act of war during the Cold War, many people have killed in war and gotten away with it. Why should he, after so much time go to prison for something other people got away with (even though they didn't go live in the enemy country - but still), happened so long ago and he was brainwashed. The last fact alone should end it.
The fact of the matter s that Bucky committed terrorism on American soil, and the whole storyline is about this man who was brainwashed into doing this and is this man still responsible for those crimes even though he wasn't in control of his actions. Short answer: No, he wasn't; and should be pardoned like Steve had suggested to the President at the beginning of the arc, but Zemo screw Bucky over by showing the world what Bucky had done and when the media got a hold of it, people became selfish and the whole "Guilty until proven innocent" crap came into play. Now the government, being the chickens that they are, are afraid of "looking bad" to the American people and now "HAVE" to blame someone for this. As was said in the last issue, Bucky wasn't responsible, his programmers were, but since Lukin is dead, Bucky's the only one left to take the bullet for his brainwashed actions. It's morel like he's been framed for something he actually did to be honest.  But overall I think this has been a fantastic storyline, Bucky has been running away from his past and after what Zemo did, Bucky now has to face those sins to become the man he wants to be, to truly become Captain America. "

Or did he? I'm not a historian but, isn't it called the cold war for a reason?
#21 Posted by PowerHerc (78172 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's a good idea.  I just hope it's well written and so far; it is.
#22 Posted by SladeRogers (291 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro:
Wherever there's confusion about Captain America (or pretty much anything) leave it to Vance Astro to clear it up.

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