I've never really been into Ultimate, but I know for certain that U!Cap is seen as the biggest d!ck south of Canada.

What do you have against Canada?

Yes compare to the 616U Captain America the UM Cap is a jerk.

He is a horrible character all around.

Ult Cap: Oh hey Spidey, how's business going?

Spider-Man: Oh well the other day I stopped 4 bank robberies and saved the city, then I defeated the Green Goblin after he-

Ult Cap: Yeah,yeah whatever bro, I got a plane to catch, see you later Spider-Sh!t.

Spider-Man- The hell you just say?

Ult Cap: You heard me skin and bones,*violently flexes muscles*

@herokiller12344: The Ultimate U loves to turn characters into sociopaths. I believe Ultimate Peter Parker is one of like 5 characters in the whole place that aren't almost just as bad as their villains.

@thecheesestabber:

Thanks for reminding me that Ultimate Captain America is crazy too :)

;3

Well for one thing, after Hank beats his wife, Janet Van Dyne. He just beats the crap out of Hank. You know, because in Ult. Caps mind, violence solves everything.

In all fairness, pretty much every character in the Ultimate U was kind of a shady di*k bag.

@thecheesestabber: I just spend months erasing that quote from my head. Back to square one for me.

@thecheesestabber said:

@herokiller12344 said:

I've never really been into Ultimate, but I know for certain that U!Cap is seen as the biggest d!ck south of Canada.

@humanrocket said:

Yes compare to the 616U Captain America the UM Cap is a jerk.

@wolverine08 said:

He is a horrible character all around.

One of the best quotes in comic book history. =)

@humanrocket: @manchine:

@thecheesestabber said:

@humanrocket: @manchine:

Captain America loves his letters.

I'm pretty sure @cadencev2 would love the Ultimate Cap pics in this thread :)

@thecheesestabber said:

@humanrocket: @manchine:

Damn, he's hungry.

@thecheesestabber: oh now that just ain't right >.<

This. Everyone in the Ultimate U are sociopathic, murderous, cannibals or just generally unpleasant people.

Jeez, don't know why Jeph Loeb and co thought that made for interesting storytelling.......

I can't get over how much of a pervert they turned Logan into, dude tried to bang a 16 year old Mary Jane (granted he was in Peter's body..but still!)

That made me hate Ultimate Logan (616 all day). Ultimatum and Ultimates went overboard with the gratuitous edginess with Scarlet Witch and Quick Silver committing incest, Iron Man and Black Widow releasing a public sex tape, Pyro gleefully raping a girl, Wasp flashing Hulk her boobs to please him, etc.

Gosh, the Ultimate Universe has gone to sh%t.

Don't forget them having Thing crush Doom's skull, Hank Pym biting Blob's head off and Cyclops straight up executing Magneto.

It really needs to reboot or something.....

@thecheesestabber said:

@humanrocket: @manchine:

That was pretty damn funny.

@the_stegman:

I think it is more realistic, its a ugly world. America as a whole watches Walking Dead, and praise it every season as a country. Breaks new records every time it is on. Yet what is in it? Murderous, backstabbing, raping, disturbing people. Ultimate Verse IMO is a more realistic reflection most of the time of the crappy side of the world we live in.

That said, it all went down hill thanks to Ultimatum. It started to climb back from that spiral afterword, but the damage was done. Blob eating Wasp was pretty lame when Blob never showed Cannibal tendency before. They killed over half the cast of the Ultimateverse.

In short, **** Loeb and his horrible work.

The Walking Dead TV show and comic is more of a survivalist show that incorporates aspects of the zombie genre like murder, gore, etc. in a classy way in my opinion. When the Ultimate Universe started going overboard with the cannibalism, incest, sex tapes, etc. it felt less like an introspective look into the ills of society and more like a "jus cause" competition between kids about who can writer grittier stuff.

you're all talking about stuff that happened over 4 years ago...have any of you read anything from the UU since Ultimatum?

a lot of that stuff was from Ultimates 2 and that and Ultimates 1 were some of the best UU stories told....just because something is different from the 616 doesn't make it bad

1. they never specifically say that the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were doing anything incestuous...sure it's heavily implied but nothing other than that

2. Iron Man and Black Widow didn't release the sex tape...Ultron did..and that's from Ultimates 3 which was written by Loeb which has all but been completely ignored by writers since then

3. again...Loeb

4. she didn't do it to please him...she did it to distract him and get his attention...what else was Wasp supposed to do against the Hulk

rebooting is never the answer...just because one bad writer gets a hold of a book doesn't mean that it needs to be rebooted....reboots are the worst thing that ever happened to comics...if a writer can't come along and work around a previous writer's mistakes then they're no better than the previous writer...Loeb was a dark stain on the UU and every writer since has completely ignored everything he wrote

@wolverine08: At least Ultimate Spider-Man is still good lol

Yes, but to be fair, the recent Ultimate stuff is not that bad, and the Ultimate spider Man/Fantastic Four stuff was very PG rated.

@danhimself:

1. they never specifically say that the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were doing anything incestuous...sure it's heavily implied but nothing other than that

Heavily implying the incest doesn't make it much better.

2. Iron Man and Black Widow didn't release the sex tape...Ultron did..and that's from Ultimates 3 which was written by Loeb which has all but been completely ignored by writers since then

Shouldn't have even been in the story.

3. again...Loeb

Yup.

4. she didn't do it to please him...she did it to distract him and get his attention...what else was Wasp supposed to do against the Hulk

Distract him by pleasing his sexual desires. Was that really the only thing Wasp could have done? Was that the only solution.

I don't think that the Ultimate U should reboot either, I was just noting that they are in a bit of a mess right now.

The Ultimate Spider-Man line is still awesome. Miles is a pretty kick ass Spider-Man.

Loeb had no idea what the UU was about...he's one of those people who thinks that the UU is supposed to be a more "realistic, gritty" look at Marvel characters but that's never what it was supposed to be...it's original goal was to create a place free of continuity where Marvel could put new and upcoming writers and they could write stories free of the continuity of the 616 and to show what the Marvel Universe might look like if it were started in modern times

as for why Wasp flashed the Hulk....you can say that there were plenty of other ways to get his attention and that may be true but this was the Ultimates' very first time in the field...Captain America was the only one there with any experience that we know of for sure, Iron Man had been operating for some unspecified amount of time but we know that he had never faced anything like the Hulk, Hank and Jan were scientists up until then with absolutely no field work at all

you say "right now" and yet almost every site has been doing nothing but giving positive reviews for all of the UU books for the past year or so...Ultimate Spider-man has never once dipped in quality...it's still just as good as when it started....Wood's Ultimate X-men has been getting stellar reviews...Fialkov's Ultimates has been excellent and the Cataclysm issues have all been getting positive reviews across the board

you can judge 13 years worth of books based off of ten issues written by a bad writer 4 years ago

@danhimself:

you can judge 13 years worth of books based off of ten issues written by a bad writer 4 years ago

I haven't done so throughout this thread. Did I ever say "The Ultimate Universe has always been crap due to Loeb!"? For goodness sakes, something like that isn't even ever insinuated in any of my posts.

Ultimate Captain America is a great character; a bit of a jerk at times sure, but ultimately a good-hearted hero and patriotic soldier. You're all either a) insane or b) more likely, have never read an Ultimate Cap comic in your life but drew that conclusion from word-of-mouth or out-of-context panels.

I got a thousand refutations right here, but frankly I'm quite sick and tired of defending the Ultimate U's merits every few months.

fine but you do say that it's "a bit of mess right now"...what's messy about it?

I do feel that there have been some pointless deaths here and there, and with the Ultimate Universe's unspoken stay dead rule, I have lost some of my favorites, but the universe is still going generally strong in story quality like you noted in your previous posts.

and I guarantee that those pointless deaths were all written by Loeb

I will say that I understand the point of Ultimatum...I think what they were trying to do was to make it drastically different from the 616 by getting rid of the characters who were too indistinguishable from their 616 counterparts...it just sucks that it was done by Loeb and that he did it in such a tasteless and shocking way instead of giving the characters meaningful deaths like how Bendis did with Peter Parker

That is honestly one of the top 5 comic book deaths I have ever read. It had so much weight and finality to it. Tugged at your heart strongs.

And what has influenced or caused this obviously well thought-out opinion?