Marvel has spat in the face of James Barnes

Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

First off, this blog deals with the events of Fear Itself numbers 3 and 4. If you have not read those comics, then I advise you do not continue reading this post until having done so.
 
I'll be honest: Barnes is the most intricate character that I've loyally followed since Daredevil's FBI-outing. Yes, I was shocked by his death in FI, but I did nonetheless see it coming with all the arrows of Brubaker's run pointing to Steve reclaiming the shield. For the record, I don't like calling him Bucky, because he has outgrown that name and mantle. Notice that all the other heroes call him Bucky, but Natasha calls him James? I like that. It's noting that he's no longer that kid he used to be, but has become a man in his own right. With that out of the way, I have to say that the way they handled his death in FI was completely and utterly disrespectful to the beautiful character and personality that Brubaker has crafted over the time since Steve's death and the mantle passing. 
 
Don't agree with me? Think I'm just tooting my Barnes horn? Keep reading.
 
Firstly, I liked how he died. Barnes is a tough nut. He doesn't go down easily. He had a rather massive hole blown through his chest and had his cybernetic arm ripped off. If that won't put you down, then Logan called; he wants his healing factor back. I liked that.  That was about the only thing I liked about his death.
 
I will firstly address the dialogue. Having loyally (almost religiously) been following Barnes' run as Captain America since Steve's death (I only really read Brubaker's work, as Barnes is pretty much HIS character), I am disgusted by the completely out of character final words he gave. "Nat...the serpent is coming...." Might as well add on "with a cup of tea and some christmas cake..." What the heck is that? That is not the character Brubaker crafted. If Brubaker was running the dialogue show, I would have expected something much, much more meaningful. Hell, he probably wouldn't speak to anyone but  Natasha. If Brubaker had the show, I would, no doubt, have expected something along the lines of "Thank you, Nat." Aw, isn't that just lovely and soppy? Yes, but it's also context-sensitive. Natalia was, really, the thing that held him together during his time as Captain America. Seriously, if you don't believe me, I encourage you to re-read the Death of Captain America, The Man With No Face and the Trials of Zemo (or whatever it was called). She was the one constant thing that supported, encouraged and held him in check. It's context-sensitive. He would undoubtedly thank her for that. My side peeve is also that the dialogue writer had Nat yell "BUCKY NO!!" Again, I must have missed the part where the FI writers tossed out previously cemented personalities. I get seriously irritated just thinking about it. 
 
Barnes' death was over in two seconds. Everyone took a few seconds to stop, notice his bloody and limb-missing corpse, and then suddenly it's back to normal. It's those moments you get in a retail store, when the power goes out for a couple of seconds, then comes back on. People stop and note "that was strange", then proceed to shrug their shoulders and continue on with monochromatic activities. Really, Marvel? I mean, really? This is the guy who brought so much more life back to the Captain America story, the guy who stood up to Thor during the Secret Invasion and basically told the God of Thunder and mighty Mjolnir to get over the fact that he's Captain America now and Steve isn't. I wanted more reactions from those closest to Barnes. Sure, I understand that the book is focusing on the FI storyline. But come on! Goliath got more attention when he died during the Civil War. Goliath. I also understand that tie-ins and actual running series' loyal to that character will deal with the effects, but for someone like Barnes, he deserves more. Far more. I know that Natalia had her own tie-in with the Secret Avengers, hunting down the newspaper that is slandering Barnes' name. But I want more emotional reactions. 
 
Which brings me to my next point: does Marvel hate Widow? Seriously. They have really gone overboard in establishing her as carrying the widow's bite (meaning she seduces and kills with her bite). They've had her pursue far too many romances, some ridiculous, some legit. What annoys me is that the Barnes/Natalia relationship seemed permanent. Look at Liu's Black Widow run, Liu had Natalia drop the 'I love you' line multiple times in that run. Brubaker outlined pretty clearly that there wasn't anyone James cared for more. ...you know what? I'm going to stop there. I could write another flipping blog on this subject. I just might. 
 
Finally, and no doubt a controversial topic, killing Barnes for profit. They killed off Barnes because of the Captain America movie. Yes, from a marketing point of view, it's a logical decision as movie-goers will pick up some Captain America issues and wonder why Bucky is Captain America and not dead. You would think, after decades and decades in the comic business, Marvel might see the logic in creating a movie spin-off series instead of killing Barnes.  Oh wait! They did. Fantastic. Killing two birds with one stone, eh Marvel? If I was Brubaker (which will never happen as that man is unimaginably talented, and probably a gentleman), I would introduce the marketing team to this fantastic concept named character development. Brubaker has made this picturesque sand castle since Steve's death, and the marketing team has come along and kicked it to crumbles. Bullying doesn't stop when you leave school, apparently. 
 
In closing, I am ashamed of the decision Marvel made. I don't know what hurts more: the horrible defacing of Barnes' character development, or the fact that Captain America will no longer be an attractive buy (I'm sorry Ed, with all your writing talents, Steve Rogers is the most two-dimensional character since Ryu from Street Fighter). 
 
Here's to the memory of one of the most appealing characters of this decade.

#1 Posted by blur1528 (1055 posts) - - Show Bio

I read the first three issues of Fear Itself just to see what happened to Bucky. It was poorly executed. Being killed off in an event is a slap in the face to any hero and it felt out of place and completely unneeded. I won't finish the story. Don't care to. Even though they ended an amazing book for marketing reasons, I will follow this new series because the last one was no miss and I hope Brubaker will deliver what the fans want in this one.

#2 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio
TOtally understand how you feel. Many might comment that it's no big deal and that he will "come back" at some later point since no character stays dead but the thing is I agree that in this case his death served no real point. 
He deserved much more respect than Marvel had given him. I haven't read many Steve Roger stories but imho they were bland...I did enjoy what I read of James. 
I never really took into account the different names used to refer to James. Bucky was the child and he has changed much since then. 
  
 
@RainEffect
said:
(I'm sorry Ed, with all your writing talents, Steve Rogers is the most two-dimensional character since Ryu from Street Fighter).   
This had me near choking on my sandwich ;p
#3 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, I would have liked his last words to be a little more meaningful as well. That analogy of the electricity going out in a supermarket was accurate.

#4 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

have you seen the grave? have you seen the whole "we're heroes and now talk about death" thing? he's been dead for decades. he just returned recently. you have waited DECADES for his return, you cant wait a little more for conformation? GOD, some people just like whine.

#5 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@KainScion said:
have you seen the grave? have you seen the whole "we're heroes and now talk about death" thing? he's been dead for decades. he just returned recently. you have waited DECADES for his return, you cant wait a little more for conformation? GOD, some people just like whine.
 
 
This didn't make any sense to me. What exactly are you talking about?
#6 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32223 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect: I agree with every thing you said there fore I have stop reading Marvel, just cant take the crap any more
#7 Posted by Deep_Six (142 posts) - - Show Bio

Listen... he'll be iite.  Just take it as it comes mann. I don't believe they killed him off for profit or any of that other bullshyt, LOL at the street fighter plug but I mean we had  Steve Rogers come back from the grave not too long ago so who's to say Bucky can't do the same?  I do agree how they went about offing BB was lame as hell.. I always thought he was destined for more and that death, wasn't having it bro. They didn't have to do it. Gohan is the shyt, btw. Cheers.

#8 Posted by Deep_Six (142 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@RainEffect: I agree with every thing you said there fore I have stop reading Marvel, just cant take the crap any more


Hell yea. DC is where it's at, far as I'm concerned.

#9 Posted by Mercy_ (92257 posts) - - Show Bio

So much freaking win right here. Extremely well put.

Moderator
#10 Posted by War Killer (19868 posts) - - Show Bio

You sir are officially my new best friend, not only do I agree with EVERYTHING you just said, but the fact that you have a freakin’ Gohan avatar is like icing on the cake!!!

Seriously, I agree with every word you just said. And I agree that he has out grown the “Bucky” name, but personally I’ve always seen it not as a codename like many mistaken it as but actually the fact that it HIS NAME. I think a lot of people overlook that “Bucky” was James’ nickname and it just stuck when he became Cap’s partner. I can understand Steve calling him by that name because it’s like an older brother calling his younger brother by his nickname. I even remember when he joined the New Avengers Spider-Man asked Hawkeye what was James’ adult name and everyone just kept referring to him as “Bucky”.

I also liked how Fraction handle the whole battle between Cap and Sin (up until the end at least) and how it shows Bucky’s willingness to not give up, not to mention that this was just after he escaped from Russia and at the time of his death he was technically an international fugitive and yet still was fighting for his country. If that’s not Captain America, then I don’t know what is. But I did like the fact that they didn’t make up some PIS and have Bucky beat Sin because it made sense that if a normal human is going to go up against an Asgardian powered super-villain, you’re going to get smacked around pretty good.

Honestly I don’t know what Brubaker is up to, deep down I want to trust him since he’s done so much with the character, and yet on the other hand I feel a little betrayed since he was the one who let Fraction do that to Bucky. (Read the many interviews between Ed and Fraction about FI and you’ll see what I mean.) And I’m pretty much the same way, I started reading Captain America at #33 right after Steve’s death and have been with Bucky every step as he slowly grew into the mantle and watched as he become more and more of the hero we all wanted him to be. And I too felt that his final words were a bit…lame. Bucky’s not afraid to die, he’s already “died” once and has been through worst crap than getting a bionic arm and a hole blown through his chest, but the fact that when you read his final scene in FI #3, it comes out as if he’s begging. I mean look at this…

Fear Itself #3

I understand he had just gotten his butt beaten, but the man’s a soldier and he’s CAPTAIN AMERICA; he wouldn’t have acted like that. On top of that, I was reading an interview with Fraction and the whole point of Bucky mentioning the Serpent was “he was the first to know about the Serpent” and that’s how Bucky will go down in history, as the man who said a villains name….yeah, VERY heroic Matt. Not to mention also that Thor already knew about the Serpent and could have easily told the heroes in the next issue, but nope, Bucky dies mumbling the name of a villain to his lover as he dies, yup, that’s very dramatic and heart breaking. I mean when Steve died we didn’t see him whispering “…Red..Red Skull…”, no he was all heroic selfless and told Sharon to keep the public safe. But obviously it’s Steve Rogers and he HAS to look epic even on his deathbed…

And the reaction to his death was the worst reaction I’ve ever seen in a comic book death, I mean even Nightcrawler got a little love when he died but all Bucky gets is Nick Fury saying:

Fear Itself #4

And honestly, Nick there is right, Bucky does deserve better. The whole point of Bucky’s death was for Marvel to get Steve back in the uniform and it’s obvious in the issue. We don’t even see Steve morning the body, all we see is him in his Cap uniform and completely ignores the fact that his closes and dearest friend just died…again and Steve acts as if nothing happened. Heck, both IRON MAN and THOR showed more emotion to Bucky’s death than Steve did.

And I love the fact that you brought up the whole fact of Natasha and Bucky’s relationship because you are one-hundred percent correct on everything you said. And I also love how Brubaker and even more how Liu showed the relationship and actually Liu explored that these two character truly do love and care for one another. She was the one who stood by him, even in the most rashes decisions; she was by his side even when the world was seemingly against him. When Bucky became Captain America she expressed how she felt about him having such a burden placed on his shoulders, and when he was arrested and sent to Russia, she went above and beyond to clear and free the man she loved. Personally I’d love to see you do another blog on this topic because it’s one I’d enjoy discussing.

And this is the thing that I believe is the MAIN REASON why every Bucky fan is most upset about Bucky’s death. Not only did Marvel take a character with such a great back story and history, but they took a character who over the past few years has gone through so much character development and growth, and they threw ALL OF THAT out the window for a freakin’ MOVIE! I don’t care what Brubaker or Marvel says, Bucky’s death was for one reason and one reason only, and that was to get Steve back into the uniform for the movie. Period. It wasn’t some big master plan that they had worked on for a year in advance, but was simply to make money off of the movie, that’s it.

And really that’s the thing that really just makes me want to scream is the fact that it was all for a freakin’ movie. And don’t get me wrong, I loved the movie and the movie was not bad in any shape or form, no it was the fact that Marvel has the crazy idea that if Steve Rogers isn’t Captain America when the movie comes out, the Captain America comics wouldn’t sale and ignoring the fact that most people who see a comic book movie will NEVER think about reading an actually comic book which makes everything pointless.

But I agree that Steve Rogers has become a two-dimensional character in one way or another I’ve said this in other threads and I’ll say it here: Steve Rogers death was the best thing to every happen to Captain America. Since literally the 1940’s, we’ve had the same character and the same story of a “man out of time” who is trying to fight for country that is completely different from the one he knew. But with the death of Steve we saw the end of one era and the birth of a new with Bucky taking up the mantle. With Bucky as Captain America, we were introduced to stories we’ve never seen and would have never seen with Steve. We were able to see a man as he does his best to live up to a role that he may never truly reach, to live up to a Legend who had inspired so many heroes and has saved the world countless times. We were able to see Bucky as he learns what it means to be Captain America, to see what it feels like for someone to carry the burden that Steve has always had to carry. This is something we never were able to see with Steve because since his very first appearance Steve was already a legend and already was a symbol. We were never able to see him grow like we see character like Spider-Man grow and learn from their mistakes and become a better hero. Steve was basically born a Living Legend.

But with Bucky, we were able to watch as this man slowly tries to live up to the legacy Steve Rogers created, to see this man make mistakes and to learn from those mistakes, and to see him become a legend in his own way. Along with this, we were able to see Bucky’s inner thoughts, to see how he didn’t want to be Captain America but didn’t believe anyone else deserved to carry the mantle and along the way we saw Bucky as he began to understand what being Captain America was like for Steve and how he started to understand the burden Steve has always had to carry and how Bucky saw the mantle as a form of redemption for his past sins as the Winter Soldier. I really like how Brubaker wrote the scene when Bucky was in prison awaiting his trial and he mentions how after being Captain America that he now wants the burden because it changed him for the better and made him a better person. Along with Steve’s death, we got to see Bucky ask the question “what would Steve do?” when it comes to his early choices as Cap and this was one of things that I felt was taken away (along with others) when Steve returned because we couldn’t have those inner thoughts where Bucky would wondering how Steve would handle a situation.

There were plenty of stories left to tell with Bucky as Captain America, with him in the role we were open to new doors and new adventures. And this is one of the things I hate about Steve return and Bucky’s death. Not only are all of those new doors now closed and will quickly be forgotten, but instead of new stories with a fresh new character, Marvel decides to recycle Steve Rogers in the role with the whole “man out of time” issue which personally I feel Steve should be over by now. I mean think about it, the man has been in the present for YEARS now, he’s gone through so many adventures and has been in the present for so long that I find it hard to believe he still feels “out of touch”. Not to mention the whole “I’ve out lived by fellow soldiers” issue us also really pointless seeing as how pretty much most of his closes allies from the war like Bucky, Fury, Dum Dum Dugan, ect are STILL ALIVE today.

James “Bucky” Barnes is a prime example of how Marvel is afraid of permanent change and how instead of allowing characters to grow after literally decades of stories choose to throw away perfectly good characters fresh new stories in favor of the same old stories and problems we’ve seen and read a dozen times over and frankly I’m tired of it.

Bucky Barnes is MY Captain America and want him back dangit!

#11 Edited by War Killer (19868 posts) - - Show Bio
@KainScion said:

have you seen the grave? have you seen the whole "we're heroes and now talk about death" thing? he's been dead for decades. he just returned recently. you have waited DECADES for his return, you cant wait a little more for conformation? GOD, some people just like whine.

First off we're not "whining" but are stating our opinion on the matter that how Marvel treated a great character was stupid and slap to the face to that character's fans...and yeah, we're freakin ticked about. Deal with it.
 
Secondly, "seen the grave"? "Conformation"? Uh, hello! His body was seen dead on a table...

Thirdly: Exodus 20:7, look it up.
#12 Posted by moviegeek17 (1474 posts) - - Show Bio

i completely agree with you as a black widow fan, she seems to keep getting under appreciated as a character at marvel. First getting her series cancelled and now ending this great relationship she had with bucky. i might not have been there to see their relationship start from the beginning but from liu's black widow book and brubaker's trials of cap and gulag arcs i could definitely tell there was a strong connection between these two characters.  It's a damn shame that marvel doesn't like too serious of relationships in comics cause i really was interested in seeing where this one was going
 
It's spite enough to bucky's fanbase that they brought him back only to rekill him like that.  Anyways great post man

#13 Posted by alexandrinus (428 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer

James “Bucky” Barnes is a prime example of how Marvel is afraid of permanent change and how instead of allowing characters to grow after literally decades of stories choose to throw away perfectly good characters fresh new stories in favor of the same old stories and problems we’ve seen and read a dozen times over and frankly I’m tired of it. 
  
 
Completely agree with you here. James "Bucky" Barnes was finaly being the character he was deserving to be and they do this when there were so much options to explore with him as Captain America. A waste of a talented character. Marvel should know better. 

#14 Posted by Kairan1979 (16703 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer

 James “Bucky” Barnes is a prime example of how Marvel is afraid of permanent change and how instead of allowing characters to grow after literally decades of stories choose to throw away perfectly good characters fresh new stories in favor of the same old stories and problems we’ve seen and read a dozen times over and frankly I’m tired of it.

You are right. They should let Bucky stay as Captain America and Steve Rogers to be Super-Soldier. Instead we are back at square one.
#15 Posted by daredevil21134 (10656 posts) - - Show Bio

RIP Bucky....you were cool but you weren't Cap

#16 Posted by daredevil21134 (10656 posts) - - Show Bio

RIP Bucky....you were cool but you weren't Cap

#17 Posted by Batmarcus (103 posts) - - Show Bio

Its just like Nick Fury said he deserved better he deserved to remain Captain America and yes I do agree with the fact that Steve Rodgers is the most 2 demesional charecter ever. But honestly as much as most people want him back it probably won't happen even tho he deserves to return.

#18 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect
@War Killer said:


                   

You sir are officially my new best friend, not only do I agree
with EVERYTHING you just said, but the fact that you have a freakin’ Gohan
avatar is like icing on the cake!!!


 


Bucky Barnes is MY Captain America and want him back dangit!



                   

               


I swear that I was (and still am) going to make a blog on this. The only problem is that I haven't personally read Fear Itself, so I didn't want to blog on something that I didn't have first hand experience.  
 
I think War Killer put it best, not only do I have 100% the same opinon as you, you also have a f**king Gohan Avatar. God I love you. I.want.Barnes.Back. He was such a deep and interesting character, he has such a good relationship with other characters and is, for sure on of the best characters in all of comic book history. I could write a blog on this, but I don't want to anymore. I feel it would be sub par with hat you (and maybe War Killer - Since I haven't read it yet) wrote.
#19 Posted by King Quisling (1980 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel Architects know what their doing. No huge loss with his death.

#20 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12420 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel JUST released Bucky Cap for Super Hero Squad online........oh the irony.
#21 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

I love that people dig my Gohan avatar. Mystic Gohan for the freaking win!

@The Dark Huntress: Thanks! I was pretty passionate when writing it.  
 
@ReVamp: You should totally make a blog on it. I'd definitely read it.
 
@War Killer: Haha, I'm humbled you totally agreed with me and went to the effort of creating that post.  

Yes! It's that first image! Barnes looks like an absolute wuss in that image! It's exactly like you said, Steve got a more dignified death when he was killed. Sharon was cradling his head and his last words were "Sharon ... so pretty ... you take my breath away..." It was a MASSIVE moment. The effects were huge across the Marvel Universe (of course, Steve has far more recognition than Bucky, but still). I mean, even Stark broke down and cried. But the only person who batted an eye was Natasha, man, even Thor showed sympathy. 
 
I totally dig that you agree with me on the Natalia/Barnes front. A lot of people take comic book relationships for granted as just a means of adding intimacy to a story, but it was far beyond that. I remember one of Brubaker's dialogue narrations had Barnes say "Natasha made me remember what it was to feel human, and they punished us both for that." That was back when he was the Winter Soldier. It means there's so much more depth to their relationship, and now we won't see it. Call me a wuss, I don't care, but I'm actually really cut that Natalia is now alone again.
 
I went and had a glance at that interview you mentioned, and I actually don't believe Ed. He says he's been planning Bucky's death for a while now, but I bet he was pressured into it (or given a timeline) by Marvel marketers for the Captain America movie. I find it incredibly hard to believe that he would choose to fizzle out Barnes' death alongside this event; especially with all the work he's done over the years. He mentioned that having Barnes escape the Gulag to return to D.C was a good show of character. I totally agree with that. However, at the very least, you could've had Barnes be seriously wounded in Fear Itself, hospitalized and then eventually dying afterwards. That way, he gets the attention he deserves (even if that's a bit of a quiet way to die, it's better than what he got). 
 
He won't come back. You know that inner-comics circle joke, "no one stays dead except Bucky"? He said they're sticking to it this time.

#22 Posted by War Killer (19868 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect: What can I say, Bucky’s my favorite character and the fact that I see people actually speaking out against Marvel decision to just throw away a perfectly great character makes me happy as a fan. 

And that’s probably one of the things I find even more annoying about Bucky’s death is that with Steve’s, we KNEW he was dead, they made it obvious that he had died and we even saw the lifeless body all on the same issue. But with Bucky, and I’ve seen another’s mention this as well, we weren’t even sure Bucky was actually dead, all we see is a badly wounded Bucky on the ground crying out about this Serpent and then it simply fades to white and we’re all left thinking, “What the crap just happened?” I mean look at the past deaths we’ve had recently, Nightcrawler, Cable, and Johnny Storm, we KNEW they were dead in the issue and they didn’t leave us hanging. But with Bucky’s, we didn’t know he was actually dead until the next issue and to me it takes away from his death even more because the fact that we weren’t sure took away from the impact of his death along with the other things we’ve mentioned.

Agreed, personally it was their relationship that I loved most of Black Widows most recent series and how Liu showed the love and compassion they had for one another. I mean just the little comments when they were on a date and Bucky knew what she was REALLY up to when she went to the restroom, or when he talks with her on the train and she tells him he’s a good man but he simply tells her he isn’t but she’s the only one understands that. Deep and powerful moments that I feel we rarely see in comics nowadays with all of these retcons and reboots where characters like Spider-Man/MJ and Superman/Lois are destroyed for the sake of simply ruining decades of stories because writers feel that younger readers won’t be able to relate to a married superhero. And you’re not a wuss, I’m a 17 year old teenage guy who plays Modern Warfare and likes getting headshots with a sniper rifle, but I still love me a good romance in my comics books. It adds to the characters and makes it feel like there are real and care for one another.

I can understand that and honestly I want to believe that he was forced to do it and didn’t just spit in the face of his loyal fans. But whether it was his choice or not, we all know it was because of the movie. What I find funny is how they’ll kill of Bucky so that Steve would be Cap when the movie comes out, but I doubt next year when ASM comes out Peter Parker will magically turn back into a teenager to match up with the movie. I mean if Marvel thinks that Bucky being Cap would mess new readers up, then by their logic, wouldn’t new readers be even more confused to see a movie with a teenage Spidey only to find an adult Spider-Man in the comics? It’s total bull-crap.

Really they didn’t even have to kill Bucky off at all, they could have easily left Bucky in a coma or something and it would prompt Steve to become Captain America again since Bucky can’t at the moment. Killing him off was just to make sure fans couldn’t demand Bucky return to the mantle after he healed. One of the things I’m going to be ticked off about is if Steve someone PIS Sin at the end of Fear Itself while Bucky just got his butt smacked around for a whole issue. But if Marvel really wanted to write a superhero epic, they should have gone with the classic story and show Bucky get beat up like he did, but by the end of the event make a comeback as Cap and go against the odd to find a way to beat Sin. THAT would be an event I’d want to read, but sadly Marvel’s more into getting money than writing great quality stories nowadays….

Where did you read that? I’m asking because I’ve spoken with a fellow Bucky fan and we’ve brought up the fact that if you read the last issue of the Gulag storyline, it ends with Bucky claiming his mission isn’t done and talks as if he’s going to shut down the scum that turned him into the Winter Soldier once and for all by stopping these old Russian sleeper-agents that are about to be released onto the world, and yet he dies in the exact next issue without completing this mission. There are simply too many things Brubaker had set up for Bucky not to come back and get closure with.

#23 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12420 posts) - - Show Bio

Im a steve fan and have never read anything with Bucky outside his New Avengers appearences, but i sympatize with you and greatly admire your passion you do bring up some valid points as well

#24 Edited by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer: Ok, you may in fact be my brother from another mother. We have some scarily close views. Hah!
 
First off, here's the link for the interview I read: http://www.newsarama.com/comics/facing-fear-fear-itself-3-110602.html 
A quarter of the way down is this: 
" Fraction: Isn't it true that the last panel of "Gulag" is Bucky hopping into a cab, and saying "Washington D.C., step on it!"?

Brubaker: It is basically along those lines." 
 
This is wrong. I assume they are talking about Captain America #619, which does not have an ending like that. The last few Bucky moments of that issue is him jumping into a helicopter with Natalia (not before some flirting) and then Barnes reminiscing about his redemption. Brubaker's probably just nodding his head because he has to. Then it switches to Steve talking to the President, I honestly couldn't give a damn what they were talking about. As soon as I saw Steve, I was disinterested and just skimmed it until the end. Brubaker then goes on to talk about how he wanted Bucky to go out with a bang. Go out with a bang. I'm sorry Ed, you are, by far, my favourite writer in comics today but that was not going out with a bang. He fizzled out and the last shot we got of him was his cowering, dying body muttering the name of a villain helplessly. War Killer, it's exactly like you said. Steve didn't die mumbling "Red Skull, Red Skull", he got his priorities straight and addressed the things closest to him. 
 
Hah! I loved those Black Widow scenes. The restaurant scene, where she says something along the lines of "I think I love you, James" was just brilliant. It had a flirting exterior, but deep down she really meant it (and she says it again at the end of Majorie's run after the fight with Imus). But you are totally right, and the more we talk about this, the more and more I'm getting ideas for my next blog. I went out and bought the latest Secret Avengers Fear Itself tie-in, the one where Widow confronts the newspaper and, although it had nothing to do with the Secret Avengers, I liked that she was standing up for his name. It would have been nicer if the writers had her show more emotion. Natalia's not an ice queen, sure she's had a rough life, but she's still got a heart. But as I said, I'll leave it for my next blog. I'll let you know when that's up so we can have more passionate discussion.
 
Ah... Modern Warfare. I clocked up something like 512 hours on Modern Warfare 2, before moving to Bad Company 2. :P
 
But I'm glad you appreciate romance in a story. As soppy and cliche as it is, love is a real driving force of a story.
 

#25 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer
 I'm also extremely happy that people are speaking out against this stupid decision that Marvel took, I mean, even if they want to accumulate a greater amount of sales through comic book deaths, they still didn't do it right! The death was meaningless and didn't add anything to the story expect to add some tension before the fight against the antagonist. And even that wasn't done properly. So basically Marvel is telling me that at most, everything that has happened for the greater part of the Captain America series isn't even worth one good moment, it makes me think that Marvel sees Bucky's run as a "filler", while Steve was "dead".   
 
@RainEffect said:


                    @War Killer: Ok, you may in fact be my brother from another mother. We have some scarily close views. Hah! 
  
Hah! I  loved those Black Widow scenes. The restaurant scene, where she says something along the lines of "I think I love you, James" was just brilliant. It had a flirting exterior, but deep down she really meant it (and she says it again at the end of Majorie's run after the fight with Imus). But you are totally right, and the more we talk about this, the more and more I'm getting ideas for my next blog. I went out and bought the latest  Secret Avengers Fear Itself tie-in, the one where Widow confronts the newspaper and, although it had  nothing to do with the Secret Avengers, I liked that she was standing up for his name. It would have been nicer if the writers had her show more emotion. Natalia's not an ice queen, sure she's had a rough life, but she's still got a heart. But as I said, I'll leave it for my next blog. I'll let you know when that's up so we can have more passionate discussion.
 
Ah... Modern Warfare. I clocked up something like 512 hours on Modern Warfare 2, before moving to Bad Company 2. :P
 
But I'm glad you appreciate romance in a story. As soppy and cliche as it is, love is a real driving force of a story. 
 



                    

               

So that's where that was from! I was looking for that, I skimmed through ALL my Captain America series trying to look for that scene, just becasue I love it so much. So it was from the Black Widow scene, it explains why I didn't find it. 
  
 
I'm not sure about what you said before though. I'm not sure how dead Bucky is going to be. I probably the only person on ComicVine that still talks about it, but in the first arc of the Avengers series, it was heavily implied that he would do something to become some sort of villain.  
 
Me thinks Marvel wants to pull a Jason Todd on James Barnes.  
 
Me not like.  
#26 Posted by War Killer (19868 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp: Exactly! The death did nothing but hurt a perfectly good character and ruin years of work that Brubaker had put into him. Basically how Fraction put it in an interview was that Bucky would be the first one to learn of the Serpent and that's whine he was freaking out at the end and mumbling about this "serpent", which ironically in the exact issue the rest of the Avengers till know nothing about this Serpent he was speaking of because Black Widow confuses the Serpent with Sin so Bucky mumbling all of that didn't really help the other heroes in anyone but instead made him look like a dead fool who died mumbling about a snake...not to mention that since Thor popped up right in the next issue he could have easily explained to the Avengers who the Serpent was, but hey why use logic when you can just make other characters look stupid...
 
And going on that scene in the Avengers, I'm pretty sure that was Bendis hinting at the Trial of Captain America and Bucky's fate in Fear Itself. But I have a few issues with that scene and how badly Bendis handled it because for on why on earth would Thor's daughter give a crap about Bucky? She's never met the guy`so why would she randomly say "I hate him"? It seemed really random. And secondly, Hulk talks about how Bucky will get what's coming to him so that makes me think he's refering to the Trial of Captain America and Bucky having to face up to his sins as the Winter Soldier. But even there, I still find it funny how the Hulk of all people, who's killed how who knows how many people every time he had a little anger fit, is passing judgment on a man who didn't have control over any of those actions in the first place. Most of the stuff involving Bucky in the Avengers (and New Avengers) was really out of character anyways, so I try my best to ignore it.
#27 Posted by War Killer (19868 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect:  That’s the same interview I read and I agree that what they are talking about and how things go down in the comics don’t add up. If you read Cap #619 and Fear Itself (which are supposed to tie together and explain how Bucky ended up in D.C. according to Brubaker) there’s a gap of time between Bucky breaking out of prison and him in D.C. suited up and fighting Sin. There’s as gap that links to the two stories together that’s missing and honestly I wonder if Ed had something planned with Bucky and how he would end up in D.C. but we unable to finish and had to slip in the scene with Steve instead. And don’t even get me started on the scene with the President, I hated that scene because the President goes on and on about how Bucky’s too tarnished to be Captain America and says that because he’s a fugitive he can’t be Cap and then tells Steve that he’s needs a Captain America.
 

First off, my biggest complaint about this scene is: Since when does Steve give a crap about what the President thinks? Who’s been fighting for the country as Captain America? Steve, not the President. Who’s went against his own country and people during Civil War, becoming an ENEMY OF THE STATE? Steve! Why on earth Steve let Nick Fury and the President say that Bucky is to tarnished to carry the shield is stupid  and I believe Brubaker only wrote that because Marvel made him do it so Steve could go back to wearing the flag.

Secondly, and this is going back to the part of Steve being an enemy of the state. During Civil War, Steve Rogers stood up against the American people and S.H.I.E.L.D. in the name of freedom. No matter how Marvel tries to twist it, Steve was a fugitive and was breaking the law. And yet when Steve comes back, Marvel makes it look like Civil War never happened, having the President throw out the SHRA just because Steve asked him to and the public seemingly forgetting everything that Steve did during CW (except to argue with Iron Man, who ironically ISN’T suppose to remember any of that…). Not to mention during the Trial of Captain America, Steve points out to the President how FDR pardoned Namor when he flooded Manhattan back in the ’40’s and all of that and the President acts like a wimp who’s afraid of the media instead of letting war hero go free. And yet because he’s Steve Rogers, you apparently are giving a “get out of jail free” card. But when Bucky, a man who was used to kill, tries to earn redemption, the President says it’s a big no-no.

If anything, Bucky represents what being Captain America is truly all about it. America was founded on people who wanted to be free, to find a second chance in life and to allow others to escape their past and be free of persecution. Bucky is a hero who was taken and turned into a weapon against his will, who even though has been through a personal hell still answered the call when it was sounded, not only saving the President (the same one who brands Bucky a fugitive), but helped save the world on at least three occasions (Secret Invasion, Avengers/Invaders, and Siege). Who took on the mantle of Captain America so that his country would have a symbol in its darkest hour and to find redemption for his past sins; becoming Captain America not because he felt he deserved it but because it was what his country needed. America is a place where people come to find a second chance, to escape their pasts and to find a better future. And if anyone represents what it means to have a second chance in life, that person is James “Bucky” Barnes.

I thought about picking up that issue of Secret Avengers, but never got around to it. But I was glad they showed a little aftermath to Bucky’s death instead of how it was basically forgotten in the main story.

#28 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer
Oh please War, don't even get me started on how he spent his final moments. I just went and read all the first half of Bucky's run yesterday since I was kind of missing him already, and Steve's death was, one of the most honorable and selfless moments in the history of comic book deaths. (Yeah I know it was redundant). Steve could have LIVED, but instead he pushes some random cop from the path of the bullet so he wouldn't get hurt, NOT to mention that he had the strength dampeners, which meant that he should at MOST be able to walk. But he did all that. And what he said to Sharon, f*ck my mouth if I sound like a girl, but it was honestly one of the sweetest and most romantic moments in Comic Books. It was memorable. Not to mention that he was worried about the civillians and that he had a child, which he knew about.  Bucky doesn't even speak to Natasha. Fraction needs to double facepalm himself.
 
See, that is exactly where I think that you have it all wrong. I cannot think of a hero who thinks that Bucky Barnes is a bad person for what he did. And they definitely wouldn't curse him out like that, so I really, honestly have my doubts that they are judging him for what he has donev as the Winter Soldier, but instead they are judging him for something that he has yet to do. Me thinks that they are going to ressurect Bucky and that they are going to turn him into a Villain, IF they ressurect him. I might just be interperting all of this wrongly, and they may in fact be judging what he did as the winter Soldier and reffering to his death when they say "He's going to get what he got coming to him" (or something along those lines). However, I haven't been totally convinced by this.  
 
And yeah, I ignored the fact that Bucky wasn't being written all that well, mnostly due to the fact that Bucky isn't that much of a mainstream character and I really didn't expect for too many interaction with the memebers of the Avengers.
#29 Posted by Dernman (14615 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer bucky as winter soldier spy type character to a out in the open flag wearing character.

#30 Posted by War Killer (19868 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp: Steve Rogers death was very well handled and executed perfectly. The whole death was written in a way that moved the reader, causing them to feel for Steve as he died as well as showing just what kind of hero he truly was. But even then, Marvel found a way to ruin it by bringing him back, causing all of the stories coming from that death meaningless because it's as if Steve had never died now. I mean seriously, who actually still acknowledges Steve was dead in the comics anymore? No one, because Marvel wants to act like it never happend, that Civil War never happened, and that Bucky never came back. Steve's death was an epic story of a hero who has fought all his life and died for what he believed in and he was treated as the hero he was with respect and honor. Bucky died fighting for his country, to defend his nation and the people in it even though he was at the time branded a traitor, but unlike Steve's death, Bucky was not given the same respect and was treated as if he never mattered. If Fraction got anything right with Bucky's death, it was what Nick Fury said: "You deserved better, kid."
 
Exactly, I mean even Hawkeye's reaction to when Bucky was outed as the Winter Soldier felt a little out of character to me. I mean here's a guy who has worked along side people like Wolverine who's been under mind-control, not to mention Iron Man who armor was once taken over and forced to kill a diplomat on live television. And yet when he learns that Bucky was brainwashed and forced to kill people, he flips-out and acts like he never worked alongside the man. I really don't think they'll bring him back as a villain, if anything they'll try to tie it with the Cap sequel and make him Winter Soldier again. Which honestly would further degrade the character, not to mention bringing him back would just make his death seem even more pointless than it already is.
 
I really liked seeing Bucky on the Avengers, even though I loath Bendis' writing I liked seeing Bucky interact with other heroes like Spider-Man and Ms. Marvel. It made him feel like he really matted in the universe and it acknowledged the fact that people knew he was Captain America.
#31 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:


                    @ReVamp: Steve Rogers death was very well handled and executed perfectly. The whole death was written in a way that moved the reader, causing them to feel for Steve as he died as well as showing just what kind of hero he truly was. But even then, Marvel found a way to ruin it by bringing him back, causing all of the stories coming from that death meaningless because it's as if Steve had never died now. I mean seriously, who actually still acknowledges Steve was dead in the comics anymore? No one, because Marvel wants to act like it never happend, that Civil War never happened, and that Bucky never came back. Steve's death was an epic story of a hero who has fought all his life and died for what he believed in and he was treated as the hero he was with respect and honor. Bucky died fighting for his country, to defend his nation and the people in it even though he was at the time branded a traitor, but unlike Steve's death, Bucky was not given the same respect and was treated as if he never mattered. If Fraction got anything right with Bucky's death, it was what Nick Fury said: "You deserved better, kid."  Exactly, I mean even Hawkeye's reaction to when Bucky was outed as the Winter Soldier felt a little out of character to me. I mean here's a guy who has worked along side people like Wolverine who's been under mind-control, not to mention Iron Man who armor was once taken over and forced to kill a diplomat on live television. And yet when he learns that Bucky was brainwashed and forced to kill people, he flips-out and acts like he never worked alongside the man. I really don't think they'll bring him back as a villain, if anything they'll try to tie it with the Cap sequel and make him Winter Soldier again. Which honestly would further degrade the character, not to mention bringing him back would just make his death seem even more pointless than it already is.  I really liked seeing Bucky on the Avengers, even though I loath Bendis' writing I liked seeing Bucky interact with other heroes like Spider-Man and Ms. Marvel. It made him feel like he really matted in the universe and it acknowledged the fact that people knew he was Captain America.

                   

               

Yeah man. Who knew Fury could break the fourth wall. Him and Deadpool need to team up... 
 
IKR? I swear I was going to mention this in my previous post, but then I didn't because it kinda went against my point, even if it didn't directly. I was thinking like, Hawkeye, WTH, did your ears stop working when they mentioned that he was BRAINWASHED. Seemed a little Bull***t to me.... 
I don't think so, I think that him going back to Winter Soldier really isn't that bad, it was inevitable, and I kind of liked this Persona of him. It had a certain taste and flavor, his personality, being a little bit more ruthless as well as his powers. (Whatever happened to the Bionic Arm, I swear I could make a blog on this. It seems to have been kind of forgotten, which is a shame since there was so much potential, I could blog on just THIS). But yeah, I see where you're going with this, however I think that they'd still be in time if they ressurected him within the Story arc... (Which probably won't happen). Even though unlike Steve, his death was executed so poorely, that if he were to be back it wouldn't matter as much. His dying moments weren't that interesting at all.  
And yes, I agree completely on the last point. He was truly accepted, which was the reason I put up with that god awful series for as long as I did. That and Noh-Varr, who just made the cake look better. Even though it was a lie (Hi 5 to whoever gets that reference). Though I would have read it, even if Noh Varr wasn't in the book.   
#32 Posted by War Killer (19868 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp: Now looking back at those scenes, I guess you could just blame Clint's reaction due to the fact that he may have just been more angry that Steve never told the Avengers. But even then, I agree that he did go a little bit overboard with the issue.
 
Personally I really hate the name "Winter Soldier", it's doesn't sound superhero'y at all and really I like Bucky as a superhero than as a black opts assassin. Plus I really think going back to Winter Soldier would be out of character for him, seeing as the name brings back so many bad memories not to mention that since the world knows he was Winter Soldier and what he did under that name, going back to the role wouldn't help him earn the trust of the public back. This isn't like with Dick Grayson where he can quit being Batman and just go back to being Nightwing like that. When the idea of Bucky becoming U.S.Agent came up I actually liked the idea since it would probably be the closes we'd get to having him back in the Cap role. Plus they could easily give him a new uniform as well as a new bionic arm that could have Steve's energy shield built into it. But a buddy of mine here on the site asked Brubaker on Twitter (or at least saw him answer the question on Twitter) of Bucky becoming U.S.Agent and Brubaker said he wouldn't come back under that name so that instantly threw that idea out the window...
 
Same, I only read the Avengers for Bucky as Cap, once he left and was replaced by Red Hulk (seriously, who's bright idea was that??? ...Oh wait, Bendis... -__-) I stopped reading Avengers all together.
 
Either way, whether or not they decide to bring Bucky back, the fact that he won't be Captain America anymore basically ruins the character for me. I don't care how cool or epic Steve's stories may be, Bucky is and always will be my Cap. And until he returns to that title, I find no interest in reading Captain America anymore....
#33 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer
I still think it was out of character, since he knows Bucky personal, but was still judging him. (Remember how he brought up JFK?). Even though Barton is impulsive, I think he wouldn't swoop down to that level. (or would he?) 
 
Yeah, this isn't exactly what I meant. I don't want him to go back to Windter Soldier. He doesn't have to take that name. I just like the idea of that type of character on him, even though you, aparently prefer a different type of Bucky. If he became US agent in a different version of the uniform, I would like it, otherwise he'd just be in Steve's shadow.  
 
All I can say is LOL. Red Hulk. LOLOLOL.  
 
Oh, yeah. I'm not going to be reading Captain America with Steve in it, though I would definitely pick up a Bucky Solo series, even if he wasn't Captain America.
#34 Posted by War Killer (19868 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp: Agreed, in a way Brubaker kinda played their realtionship off as a type of brotherly realtionship. When Clint first confronted Bucky after he became Cap you could tell they respected each other, at least in the way they saw Steve. But I agree that it was still out of character.
 
Oh okay. No I agree and like that type of character for him. Really, if Marvel was smart, they could easily bring Bucky back as Captain America (or U.S.Agent) and have him lead the Secret Avengers while Steve takes over the main Avengers again. Seems to fit Bucky's style anyways plus he'd be working along side Black Widow. I think they could easily modify the U.S.Agent look to look more like Bucky's Cap uniform, but honestly I don't see what's so wrong with having two Captain America's? I mean you'd think Steve wouldn't mind having some extra help plus it would allow him to continue being a symbol while also allowing Bucky to still be a hero. Heck, they could even put each of them on different sides of the country, have Steve be the Cap in New York and lead the Avengers there and place Bucky as Cap in California and have him lead the New Avengers from the old West Coast Avengers compound.
 
Don't even get me started on Red Hulk :P I loved teh character as a villain but this whole redemption crap and him being on the Avengers makes no sense. Bendis simply needed a new Sentry and he got one.....
 
Not sure, I'd probably pick up a series if it focused on Bucky under a new name but currently I'm not reading neither Captain America or Captain America & Bucky.
#35 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer:  
Clint Barton is one of my favourite characters (nowhere near Bucky, but that's difficult) and I kind of like the relationship they built. When I think of them I always remember that one scene in the gym in the Road to Reborn arc, just before they attend Steve's memorial. That scene doesn't display a lot, but it shows their relationship through the subtlety of the dialogue and postures.  

Yeah, I see where you're coing from. But no, there couldn't be two caps, there would have to be only one for the same reason DC stopped it with the two Batmen. Too confusing. But yeah I like the idea of him in the secret Avengers, it would truly suit him.  
 
Yes... I know. Dammit, the only difference is that the Sentry wasn't a good character to begin with, but this is Ross we're talking about. I'm not Hulk Fan, but he's a major antagonist to the Hulk, if Bendis gives Rulk the sentry treatment, then the character behind the transformation will also be screwed.  
 
I'm not reading any of those. Period.
#36 Posted by evildupe (17 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Quisling: QFT (I just learned what that meant a few days ago)
Bucky was never really that big a deal. He had it coming, and I'm pretty sure he's died before, right? He's like the Jean Grey of the Avengers.
#37 Posted by War Killer (19868 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp: I like that scene as well, or when they team up in Cap: Reborn and how they seem so use to working together.
 
Eh, maybe I'm just trying to please both Bucky and Steve fans,  but I don't see how it would be confusing. I mean right now they have Invincible Iron Man which has Tony and Iron Man 2.0 which stars War Machine and it doesn't seem to be confusing for anyone. But honestly I'd rather they just kept Steve dead and let Bucky remain as Cap for a new generation. But like always, Marvel will always go back to the same old, same old...
 
I liked the fact that we had an "evil" Hulk that the Avengers could fight instead of the same Hulk battles we've always seen. Plus to me it was the most logical progression for Ross' character seeing it as his way of "fighting fire with fire" so to speak. But him being on the Avengers makes no sense, Bendis in an interview said brought up that the Avengers has always been a team were villains could come and be heroes, but the Red Hulk attacked the freakin' White House and then is suddenly on the Avengers? How does that work? If he's trying to "redeem" himself, he should be placed on the Thunderbolts and EARN his place on the Avengers...
#38 Posted by Dernman (14615 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I just imagining it? 
Didn't they rename Captain America to Captain America and Bucky?
If they did doesn't that mean hes alive?

#39 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:


                    @ReVamp: I like that scene as well, or when they team up in Cap: Reborn and how they seem so use to working together.  Eh, maybe I'm just trying to please both Bucky and Steve fans,  but I don't see how it would be confusing. I mean right now they have Invincible Iron Man which has Tony and Iron Man 2.0 which stars War Machine and it doesn't seem to be confusing for anyone. But honestly I'd rather they just kept Steve dead and let Bucky remain as Cap for a new generation. But like always, Marvel will always go back to the same old, same old...  I liked the fact that we had an "evil" Hulk that the Avengers could fight instead of the same Hulk battles we've always seen. Plus to me it was the most logical progression for Ross' character seeing it as his way of "fighting fire with fire" so to speak. But him being on the Avengers makes no sense, Bendis in an interview said brought up that the Avengers has always been a team were villains could come and be heroes, but the Red Hulk attacked the freakin' White House and then is suddenly on the Avengers? How does that work? If he's trying to "redeem" himself, he should be placed on the Thunderbolts and EARN his place on the Avengers...

                   

               

Yeah, I do too. I think that its would also have been cool for Steve to stay dead, but somehow I feel that its good for him to be alive, even though I don't want to read any book in particular that stars him in it. Him being alive actually balances things on with Tony Stark and stuff.  
About the Red Hulk, I honestly don't know much about him, I didn't even know he attacked the White House. But yeah, its stupid. You don't get villains of THAT sort in the Avengers. It just ain't right. Hawkeye wan't even really a villain to begin with.
@Dernman: 
Its set back in the 1940, during the second world war.
#40 Edited by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp: Yeah mate! That scene's from Majorie Liu's Black Widow series. If you haven't picked those up, I highly recommend you do. They really get into the psyche of Natalia and it's a brilliant read (if the art is a little lackluster at times).
 
@War Killer said:

@RainEffect:  

If anything, Bucky represents what being Captain America is truly all about it. America was founded on people who wanted to be free, to find a second chance in life and to allow others to escape their past and be free of persecution. Bucky is a hero who was taken and turned into a weapon against his will, who even though has been through a personal hell still answered the call when it was sounded, not only saving the President (the same one who brands Bucky a fugitive), but helped save the world on at least three occasions (Secret Invasion, Avengers/Invaders, and Siege). Who took on the mantle of Captain America so that his country would have a symbol in its darkest hour and to find redemption for his past sins; becoming Captain America not because he felt he deserved it but because it was what his country needed. America is a place where people come to find a second chance, to escape their pasts and to find a better future. And if anyone represents what it means to have a second chance in life, that person is James “Bucky” Barnes.

I could not have put it better myself. That's exactly what Barnes was all about. I love that confrontation he has with Barton in the Death of Captain America where he says "I don't have to explain my actions to you. I'm doing what I need to, to keep moving on. If you don't like it -- tough." That's just a perfect example of Bucky's character. He just consistently stands up for himself, against Thor, Barton and others who don't like that he's wearing the Captain America mantle or that he's not like Steve. He's doing what he needs to do in order to earn redemption. 
 
I actually love the name Winter Solider. It's not meant to be super-heroish, it's more of a codename the Soviets gave him. But if Marvel resurrected him as a villain (in comics, I don't mind him being in the sequel to the First Avenger), I would probably take the blue pill and deny it ever happened. :P
#41 Posted by Primmaster64 (21137 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL Gohan, when he was bad-ass again. I agree with everything you wrote friend

#42 Posted by PowerHerc (80827 posts) - - Show Bio

I still can't believe Marvel did this so soon after bringing him back.

What a shame.

#43 Posted by The_Warlord (1777 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with you on that, James deserved better

#44 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:

I still can't believe Marvel did this so soon after bringing him back.

What a shame.

QFT
#45 Posted by daredevil21134 (10656 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Quisling said:
Marvel Architects know what their doing. No huge loss with his death.
Agreed
#46 Posted by Captainamerica119 (200 posts) - - Show Bio

Bucky didn't die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He became the Winter Soldier again

#47 Posted by Captainamerica119 (200 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel has spat in Bucky's face. But I love him as Winter Soldier. It is more fitting yhan him being Cap

#48 Posted by spider11211 (1134 posts) - - Show Bio

I like him as the Winter Soldier better, but he was a good Cap substitute.

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