Is Cap peak human or super human?

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#1 Posted by JoeEddie (484 posts) - - Show Bio

I read his bio and it says he's peak human. So do writers just write him as super human? How else can he beat Spider-Man, Wolverine, Hulk, etc?

Thanks,

Joe

#2 Posted by The_MVPs (84694 posts) - - Show Bio

He's peak human who randomly accomplishes superhuman feats. As far as how he's able to defeat certain characters, that all depends on the situation. Sometimes its through tactical brilliance and strategy/preparation, and other times it may just be PIS (plot induced stupidity).

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#3 Posted by JoeEddie (484 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler:

Thanks! I want to learn more about him. Can you recommend any books?

#4 Edited by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

@JoeEddie said:

@Gambler:

Thanks! I want to learn more about him. Can you recommend any books?

Anything by Brubaker, Waid or Gruenwald.

Also Marvel NOW! wil be a good jumping on point, Captain America#1 comes out this week, I think

#5 Posted by JoeEddie (484 posts) - - Show Bio

@tg1982:

Thanks

#6 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

@JoeEddie: You're welcome

#7 Posted by cameron83 (7421 posts) - - Show Bio

cornucopia

#8 Posted by TheSwordsman (1954 posts) - - Show Bio

Peak human stats except for endurance, which is definitely superhuman.

#9 Edited by Teerack (6628 posts) - - Show Bio

He's super human because he's the height of human perfection which is impossible.

He also heals faster then normal and his body reacts to things abnormally which could be considered super-human traits.

#10 Posted by THORSON (2449 posts) - - Show Bio

peak human.

he doesn't have powers.

#11 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7901 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't he bench 3000 lbs. one time? I'd say that's somewhat superhuman.

#12 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

By Marvels definition he is the peak of human "potential". Handbooks leave out potential making it lose its meaning.

Other writers have also called him the next step in human evolution. By Marvel definition Cap is a "pure" human. But genetically the highest level. So technically there right to say he is not "super" human. But he is at a superhuman level. Especially with his adrenaline bursts of running easily a mile a minute to seeing faster then us. To building level fall and jumps.

#13 Posted by oceanmaster21 (8187 posts) - - Show Bio

@JoeEddie:

captain america is is the bigging peak of superhuman bc batman and jason todd nightwing tim drake are as strong as a human can get then captain america is above that

#14 Posted by fury714 (589 posts) - - Show Bio

Peak-Human, although seems to be enhanced to superhuman levels at times.

#15 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

This post covers it very well. He is beyond human but still is human at one of it's highest potential.

@SlimJ87D said:

Captain America is NOT just a peak human. He is what humans will be one day when we evolve and he is at the peak of that.

From the words of Ed Brubaker himself. The man who wrote Captain America for 8 years.

"I agree with parts of a lot of people's comments here and elsewhere. But I think it's a bit funny to see people get so bent out of shape when a guy who's given something called the "Super Soldier Serum" turns out to be a bit more than the average human. He's been leaping out of the windows of eight story buildings and across city streets in NYC, dodging bullets, doing amazing feats of speed and strength, since I started reading the book in the early 70s.

My take has always been that Cap is the peak of human POTENTIAL. What humans might someday be able to do, physically, he already can. If it was just about having an olypic-level athlete, do you really think all these groups and scientists would have been wasting 50plus years trying to replicate the SSS?

All I've done is have him say outloud what's always been pretty clear to me as a fan of the character. He's always been a lot stronger and faster than the average well-trained athlete. And I've always hated the Batman comparisons. Batman trained himself, Cap got given a miracle serum. I'm not making that up or changing anything.

Daredevil is more like Batman, physically, and yet in Born Again, Cap races by him so fast he's a breeze. As for Cap running 60mph. In the comic, I think he says he can run a mile in a little over a minute when he HAS to. It's not even implied that he can keep that up all day. It's a full-on burst of speed, when he has to."

"Daredevil is more like Batman, physically, and yet in Born Again, Cap races by him so fast he's a breeze. As for Cap running 60mph."

Here, this is what Brubaker was talking about.

And finally this is Ed Brubakers writing here where he clearly puts it out there in his own dialogue, no artist is determining an obscure feat here. Cap is clearly running 5 miles in 5 minutes.

Again, what Ed Brubaker is saying is that Steve is not just the peak of man, but evolution wise he is the absolute peak of what a human can be physically in evolution. Whatever physical potential we have in evolution, he already is.

"My take has always been that Cap is the peak of human POTENTIAL. What humans might someday be able to do, physically, he already can."

#16 Posted by Kyzuko (120 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't enhanced human > peak human? And if it is, doesn't that make Cap enhanced human since he is a step below superhuman?

#17 Posted by guardiandevil (38 posts) - - Show Bio

@krauser99: Very informative post, thank you!

#18 Posted by Video_Martian (5645 posts) - - Show Bio

He's peak human.

#19 Edited by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kyzuko said:

Isn't enhanced human > peak human? And if it is, doesn't that make Cap enhanced human since he is a step below superhuman?

For what it's worth, in Civil War, he was listed as "enhanced human" on a S.H.E.I.L.D. computer, IIRC.

But many still consider him Peak Human.

#20 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

Like Batman, he is consider a peak human....but somehow he achieved superhuman feats on daily basis==

#21 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardiandevil said:

@krauser99: Very informative post, thank you!

Your welcome I supplied two scans on that post but it was SlimJ87D who provided the rest. The facts show that Steve is "superior" to guys like Batman, Daredevil. He is the peak of human "potential" or as referenced above the next step in human evolution. 
#22 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5471 posts) - - Show Bio
@GodDamnIronMan

Like Batman, he is consider a peak human....but somehow he achieved superhuman feats on daily basis==

Cap is way above Batman. Bats is more in Daredevils league, slightly above.
#23 Edited by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@JoeEddie said:

I read his bio and it says he's peak human. So do writers just write him as super human? How else can he beat Spider-Man, Wolverine, Hulk, etc?

Thanks,

Joe

  • Peakhuman Strength: Rogers' physical strength is enhanced to the very peak of human potential. As a result, he is as physically strong as a human being can be classified as superhuman. Captain America had been seen bench pressing 500 kg (1,200 lbs) which is consistent with his strength level, as benching is easier than military press lifting. He can snap steel handcuffs and chains, and is capable of breaking through wooden walls and steel doors with a single kick.
  • Peakhuman Speed: He can run at speeds of up to approximately 48 kilometers per hour (30 miles per hour), and has on occasion run a mile when under duress mile (1.6 km) in 73 seconds (49 mph/78 kph).).
  • Peakhuman Stamina: Rogers' body eliminates the excessive build-up of fatigue-producing chemicals in his muscles, granting him exceptional endurance and lung capacity. He can exert himself at peak capacity for a hour without any rest and before showing any signs of fatigue.
  • Peakhuman Agility: His agility is greater than that of an Olympic gold medalist.He can coordinate his body with balance,flexibility, and dexterity. He also has the ability to leap 50 yards out in a single bound and 20 ft into the air without a running start.
  • Peakhuman Reflexes: Rogers' reflexes border on superhuman level. His reaction speed is 20 kph, which makes it possible for him to dodge gunfire even in point blank range from multiple gunners at the same time.
  • Peakhuman Durability: His bones and muscles are denser and harder than normal, to the highest human potential, which makes him very durable compared to a normal human. He is durable enough to the point that if a person beats him with a thick wooden stick, the stick would eventually break and Rogers would show little discomfort. This level of durability is how he survived other forms of extensive punishment throughout his career such as falls from several stories like when he landed on a car from 200 feet with no discomfort.
  • Peak Human Healing: Rogers' healing speed and efficiency is at the highest limits of human potential, which means he can heal faster than most humans. The white blood cells (WBCs) and the SSS in his body are efficient enough to fight off any microbe, foreign body and others from his body keeping him healthy and immune to most if not all infections, diseases and disorders, also Rogers cannot become intoxicated by alcohol, drugs, or impurities in the air and is immune to terrestrial diseases. He is also highly resistant to hypnosis or gases that could limit his focus.
  • Peak Human Mental Process: His mental performance has been greatly enhanced, allowing his mind to operate in the most efficient and rapid manner possible. One manifestation of this is his tactical genius; the ability to quickly process multiple information streams (e.g., threat assessment) and rapidly respond to changing tactical situations. Rogers also possesses an eidetic memory, meaning that he never forgets anything and has perfect recall. This enables him to remember any military tactic and apply it to any situation.
  • Peakhuman Senses: Rogers' senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste, and touch are at the highest possible limits of human potential. He once said that he is able to dodge bullets because he sees faster than them.
  • Peak Human Longevity The SSS dramatically slows Roger's aging due to extensively healthy cells. Sersi once stated because of this it is possible that he may indefinitely maintain his youth.This would presumably also include Isaiah Bradley and Josiah X, two others exposed to the Super Soldier Serum.
    • This is true in the case of Isaiah Bradley, who has been shown to be in peak physical condition for someone being between 60 and 70 years old.

He's a highly skilled fighter,which is why and how he pulls off feats.

#24 Posted by Kyzuko (120 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm hella sure he's enhanced human since he's borderline superhuman.

#25 Posted by XEL820 (230 posts) - - Show Bio

@GodDamnIronMan:

Cap is above Batman. Batman is like an amalgamation of Olympic athletes. He does everything extremely well. Batman is peak human.

Cap isn't just peak human. He's at the peak of human potential. That means all the things that humans, Batman included, might one day be able to achieve through evolution, Cap can already do. Hence him performing superhuman feats every now and then.

#26 Edited by Rogan2112 (600 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, I'm sold. I've been arguing low level super human for a long time now, but y'all and...well..Ed Brubaker have convinced me. The stuff that has SEEMED super human has just been the "peak of human potential" y'all keep mentioning. Actually, it's a little cooler this way. Thanks for the info.

#27 Edited by Kyzuko (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogan2112: I guess 'peak of human potential' is low level superhuman, only until humans in Marvel comics evolve to Steve's stage, which won't happen as then there'd be nothing special about Cap's abilities.

#28 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11745 posts) - - Show Bio

This post covers it very well. He is beyond human but still is human at one of it's highest potential.

@SlimJ87D said:

Captain America is NOT just a peak human. He is what humans will be one day when we evolve and he is at the peak of that.


From the words of Ed Brubaker himself. The man who wrote Captain America for 8 years.

"I agree with parts of a lot of people's comments here and elsewhere. But I think it's a bit funny to see people get so bent out of shape when a guy who's given something called the "Super Soldier Serum" turns out to be a bit more than the average human. He's been leaping out of the windows of eight story buildings and across city streets in NYC, dodging bullets, doing amazing feats of speed and strength, since I started reading the book in the early 70s.

My take has always been that Cap is the peak of human POTENTIAL. What humans might someday be able to do, physically, he already can. If it was just about having an olypic-level athlete, do you really think all these groups and scientists would have been wasting 50plus years trying to replicate the SSS?

All I've done is have him say outloud what's always been pretty clear to me as a fan of the character. He's always been a lot stronger and faster than the average well-trained athlete. And I've always hated the Batman comparisons. Batman trained himself, Cap got given a miracle serum. I'm not making that up or changing anything.

Daredevil is more like Batman, physically, and yet in Born Again, Cap races by him so fast he's a breeze. As for Cap running 60mph. In the comic, I think he says he can run a mile in a little over a minute when he HAS to. It's not even implied that he can keep that up all day. It's a full-on burst of speed, when he has to."

"Daredevil is more like Batman, physically, and yet in Born Again, Cap races by him so fast he's a breeze. As for Cap running 60mph."

Here, this is what Brubaker was talking about.

And finally this is Ed Brubakers writing here where he clearly puts it out there in his own dialogue, no artist is determining an obscure feat here. Cap is clearly running 5 miles in 5 minutes.

Again, what Ed Brubaker is saying is that Steve is not just the peak of man, but evolution wise he is the absolute peak of what a human can be physically in evolution. Whatever physical potential we have in evolution, he already is.

"My take has always been that Cap is the peak of human POTENTIAL. What humans might someday be able to do, physically, he already can."

I mean, if everyone would just stop scrolling passed the long post and read this, it's pretty self explanatory. Brubaker answers the questions for us.

#29 Posted by SlimJ87D (10063 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: Yep, but people don't argue to learn around here. They argue because they think they're right and they don't like the counter arguments.

#30 Posted by Rogan2112 (600 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

For what it's worth, here's a scan defining Cap's strength as being preternatural. Preternatural means beyond normal, basically.

#32 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Yup there is another time when its called preternatural. When Steve fought against Baron Blood during WW2(Invaders volume 1). Blood was sky high in the clouds chasing after someone as Steve felt helpless on the ground. The narration then stated Steve uses his preternatural strength to throw his shield and he tags Baron Blood and saves his friend.

#33 Edited by MuyJingo (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

There hasn't been any convincing to show cap is anything more than peak.

  • Scans which say he is peak, which people are interpreting to mean he is more than peak.
  • A statement by one of the writers.
  • Cherrypicked feats, which mean little.

If you go just by feats to qualify him as more than peak, then that same logic holds for other character.

It's ridiculously flawed approach because it's then easy to make an argument for any character to be superhuman.

At the moment, there is nothing substantial to show him being more than peak.

#34 Edited by Alexander505 (2146 posts) - - Show Bio

Scans which say he is peak, which people are interpreting to mean he is more than peak.

Because many people - for reasons that I don't understand yet - have always overestimated the Cap's physical abilities. I read stupidity like: "I don't care if the Marvel said that Cap is a peak human, for me is more than peak human".

Fanboy.

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#35 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Truth be told. I don't mind people calling him Peak human. That is what he is but to ignore the details of what his "Peak" represents is a tall tell sign in itself. Peak human sure....yes....but the rest as well.

Peak of human potential.

Super Soldier

The Perfect Man

Maximum human level

Preternatural

Super Man

Enhanced Human

The next step in human evolution.

A new breed.

#36 Posted by MuyJingo (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

Just to be clear, there is no evidence aside from one writers opinion that cap as a peak human means anything more than you would expect the word to mean, i.e. the best a man can be in all regards today.

To claim he is more than that is a matter of interpretation, and not supported.

#37 Posted by Alexander505 (2146 posts) - - Show Bio

To claim he is more than that is a matter of interpretation, and not supported.

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#38 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Also your interpretation is not supported. Comics at least support that Steve is unique to himself. One writer.....more like many writers. You two are both Batman fans who seem to have agenda. Poster Alexander505 posts about in the batman forums and you participated against Cap in the Batman vs Cap thread. Its is clear that because of this you will ignore and accept more to your agenda. But this information of Steve is not new. Preternatural........beyond natural. Batman, Daredevil, Puniser....are at a natural level while Steve is at a preternatural level. No amount of nit picking semantics is changing this.

Steve is the next step in human evolution. One writer Bru is not even required, since it was not Bru who first stated this nor the peak of human potential.

#39 Posted by MuyJingo (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve is the next step in human evolution

You don't get it kiddo.

You stating that is meaningless, unless a definition is agreed upon. You seem to think yours is correct. I and others disagree. Unless you can actually show something canonical or official explaining that, it's a matter of interpretation.

Please, try to understand that before you jump in with another reply reiterating the same incorrect nonsense.

#40 Edited by Dernman (15160 posts) - - Show Bio

The way I see it is he is peak human but not like Batman. Batman is the peak for a man of his height/weight and the best he can be.

That means he can still be slower/weaker then someone who's body is built more towards that.

Captain America on the other hand is peak regardless.

Also where Batman has to keep striving to become peak. Cap starts out that way and only has to make sure he doesn't let himself go.

#41 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo said:

@krauser99 said:

Steve is the next step in human evolution

You don't get it kiddo.

You stating that is meaningless, unless a definition is agreed upon. You seem to think yours is correct. I and others disagree. Unless you can actually show something canonical or official explaining that, it's a matter of interpretation.

Please, try to understand that before you jump in with another reply reiterating the same incorrect nonsense.

It is your logic that is incorrect. Me stating that is simply a fact that you happen to dislike. Cap is the next step in human evolution. Unless you can show that he is not the next step of human evolution. Then the burden is on you.....but I can phrase that many times since he was stated to be so.

Again Cap is the next step in human evolution.

#42 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

The way I see it is he is peak human but not like Batman. Batman is the peak for a man of his height/weight and the best he can be.

That means he can still be slower/weaker then someone who's body is built more towards that.

Captain America on the other hand is peak regardless.

Also where Batman has to keep striving to become peak. Cap starts out that way and only has to make sure he doesn't let himself go.

Agreed. Steve has been described as preternatural meaning beyond the "natural." While Batman though "incredible" is still on a natural level.

#43 Edited by MuyJingo (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

It is your logic that is incorrect. Me stating that is simply a fact that you happen to dislike. Cap is the next step in human evolution. Unless you can show that he is not the next step of human evolution. Then the burden is on you.....but I can phrase that many times since he was stated to be so.

Again Cap is the next step in human evolution.

Again, you don't seem to be comprehending what I'm saying.

Please define "next step in human evolution". Then show support for your definition.

Until you do so, reiterating that statement is meaningless. Although I'm guess you won't be able to understand why.

#44 Edited by k4tzm4n (45910 posts) - - Show Bio

Running roughly 60mph on at least 3 occasions isn't something peak humans can do. Unless I wasn't CC'd on the latest e-mail which redefines peak humans. If that's the case, please forward.

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#45 Edited by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio
@muyjingo said:

Just to be clear, there is no evidence aside from one writers opinion that cap as a peak human means anything more than you would expect the word to mean, i.e. the best a man can be in all regards today.

To claim he is more than that is a matter of interpretation, and not supported.

He is more than that, and has been more than that for quite a while. You say "the best a man can be in all regards today", well how many humans today are immune to every earth disease? How many humans today can sustain peak physical performance and exertion for days at a time without rest? How many humans today can dodge bullets after they've been fired and says that they simply see faster than them? How many humans can throw a 12lbs disk and cleave a moving truck in half lengthwise? You say there is no evidence, but all this is canon.

#46 Edited by MuyJingo (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

@tg1982: The problem is with that logic, Batman is also a superhuman. Feats in comics don't mean much, not when trying to establish if someone is human, enhanced human or superhuman. Steve is more than peak human when it comes his healing factor, but not strength, agility etc.

#47 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo: To clarify, I don't think, nor am I saying, that Cap is superhuman. I just go with the belief that he is at the peak of the next step of human evolution. Whch would account for all the feats he can do and still beconsidered "human".

#48 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo said:

@krauser99 said:

It is your logic that is incorrect. Me stating that is simply a fact that you happen to dislike. Cap is the next step in human evolution. Unless you can show that he is not the next step of human evolution. Then the burden is on you.....but I can phrase that many times since he was stated to be so.

Again Cap is the next step in human evolution.

Again, you don't seem to be comprehending what I'm saying.

Please define "next step in human evolution". Then show support for your definition.

Until you do so, reiterating that statement is meaningless. Although I'm guess you won't be able to understand why.

Again, you don't seem to be understanding what I am saying. I will quote that Steve is Peak Human or Peak of human potential or The next step in human evolution. Stating this is not meaningless since this is what Cap is. It's no different then you stating he is Peak Human. Although I guess you won't be able to understand why your statement is meaningless.

#49 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo said:

@tg1982: The problem is with that logic, Batman is also a superhuman. Feats in comics don't mean much, not when trying to establish if someone is human, enhanced human or superhuman. Steve is more than peak human when it comes his healing factor, but not strength, agility etc.

No he's not. Because it isn't just about impressive feats. Batman is never called a super soldier. Nor preternatural strength...nor strength of 10...nor strength of half a platoon of men. He has never been referred to as enhanced strength, enhanced speed or even title "super human physique" like Steve. By your logic Daredevil has superhuman feats but there not super in there universe. I mean Matt had KO'ed to male adult tigers and despite looking super he is not what Captain America is.

#50 Posted by MuyJingo (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

Again, you don't seem to be understanding what I am saying. I will quote that Steve is Peak Human or Peak of human potential or The next step in human evolution. Stating this is not meaningless since this is what Cap is.

Lol...

The only possible response here, is WHOOOOOSH.

Read what I wrote, don't just quickly write a response because you're feeling defensive. Until you understand what I wrote above, there isn't any point in discussing it with you.

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