HYDRA over Nazis

#1 Posted by vandinejd_1991 (311 posts) - - Show Bio

There has been an issue that has been on my mind for quite some time now. For the past couple years there has arisen a new phenomenon where the fact that Captain America fought Nazis has been ignored because they have been replaced by HYDRA. This first began with the show Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes when we first meet Captain America and the Red Skull. It then continued with Captain America: The First Avenger where the Nazis were only given a few references while the Nazis dominated the movie. And now Avengers Alliance as well as the show Avengers Assemble continue what Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes started. Now I don't know about you but I do not consider the Nazis and HYDRA the same because in the comics HYDRA was started by Baron Strucker after World War II, not by the Red Skull during World War II; and in Captain America: TFA Johann Schmidt himself said "we both knew HYDRA could grow no further in Hitler's shadow."

So what does this mean? It means that Marvel is completely ignoring nearly 80 years of comic book history in which Hitler was born to fight the Nazis and that the Red Skull was trained by Hitler himself. I also believe it means that we are taking our nation's real history too lightly. If we can change a historical event that inspired the creation of many comic book characters like Captain America in this way, then who is to say that we will ignore some other historical event in another medium of the media?

#2 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

For the most part, it's only the more mainstream forms of Captain America. It's understandable, Nazi Germany's Reich was a very uncomfortable piece of history, especially for some, and Marvel wants to reach international audiences. Plus the Nazis are a pretty big no-no for all-ages programming like Earth's Mightiest Heroes. You have to see this from a business-oriented standpoint. And they never changed real-world history, just tweaked Marvel's own fictional history.

Personally, as a Cap fan, I can live with it, as long as it's kept into other mediums. But I still like my Nazis in my comics, thank you very much. Nazis are evergreen, you can never get sick of them as villains.

#3 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

For the most part, it's only the more mainstream forms of Captain America. It's understandable, Nazi Germany's Reich was a very uncomfortable piece of history, especially for some, and Marvel wants to reach international audiences. Plus the Nazis are a pretty big no-no for all-ages programming like Earth's Mightiest Heroes. You have to see this from a business-oriented standpoint. And they never changed real-world history, just tweaked Marvel's own fictional history.

Personally, as a Cap fan, I can live with it, as long as it's kept into other mediums. But I still like my Nazis in my comics, thank you very much. Nazis are evergreen, you can never get sick of them as villains.

This. Also, it was nice that they were able to go out and do cool things with the looks. I don't think there would be the same vibe with a bigger focus on nazi themes.

#4 Posted by vandinejd_1991 (311 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Ok if the Nazis are "a big no-no for all ages programming" then why is the Red Skull even included in programs such as these. His Nazism is what makes him Captain America's archenemy in the comics. Captain America was created to fight the guy who Hitler created to spread terror throughout the world: the Red Skull. Making Red Skull the founder of HYDRA instead seems to take that fact away from him. It also completely ignores Baron von Strucker's work in the comics. Also let's not forget that the Nazis were depicted in other all-ages programming like X-men: The Animated Series where Wolverine remembers his adventures with Cap, The Super Hero Squad in the two episodes where Red Skull he appears, Spiderman and his amazing friends in the episode where the Red Skull makes his appearance, and the episodes where Red Skull appeared in Spiderman: the Animated Series.

#5 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@vandinejd_1991

Sigh...you're getting way too caught up about this.

Because the Red Skull is an iconic archenemy of Captain America, and a major villain of the Marvel Universe. So of course they're going to include him in all forms of Marvel media, but they have to cut out the Nazi angle to make it more age-appropriate for the more all-ages programming. Yes, Nazism has been referenced in other animated shows, but times change (might have something to do with Disney buying Marvel, after all). Marvel's thinking globally, you're overreacting too much over this recent change.

Also, your understanding of the Skull seems off, he's already rejected Nazism in the comics. As the Red Skull himself puts it in Captain America, "I'm bigger than fascism now. I'm my own force." WWII is a big part of Captain America and the Red Skull, and was the reason why they were created, but just because Marvel omits Nazism doesn't mean that the link is entirely gone.

#6 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

For the most part, it's only the more mainstream forms of Captain America. It's understandable, Nazi Germany's Reich was a very uncomfortable piece of history, especially for some, and Marvel wants to reach international audiences.

I agree. It's pretty much this.

#7 Posted by cameron83 (7419 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah,because not wanting to put Nazis in cartoons aimed for kids is totally unreasonable.

As long as it is not changed in comics,who the f*** cares?

In kids cartoons,did we see Magneto with a reference to the holocaust?

I didn't see it in Wolverine and the Xmen,and I didn't need to.

#8 Posted by Captainamerica119 (200 posts) - - Show Bio

Have you noticed most comic book movies don't follow the origin at all: Spiderman, Amazing Spiderman, X-Men First Class, Fantastic Four, Captain America: The First Avenger, The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, Kick-Ass, Just to name a few

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