Captain America...more then meets the eye.

#1 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

This is just a theory of mine. But the PIS thread got me thinking. Do writers not understand the vast power level difference when we see Cap hurt Hulk or to the point when Cap knocks out the Hulk. But what's strange is that it's not just the Hulk as other writers have done this with other times or other times Steve hurting foes he has no business in doing so. But I've always had a theory that Steve's mind or sheer will can produce his abilities or power level to do what is required.

This isn't about the argument that Steve is peak human, nor an argument that Steve is a certain level of Super human. This is more a theory that Steve is at a certain particular level and that level he exceeds by a great degree, through the sheer will of his entire being. Some examples of this that caught my eye that sort of display this type of feats. This is a oldie from vol 1, notice how Steve does this super jump as stated with super human strength. I know the jump doesn't look like much but back then it was to high for Falcon or Sharon. As it concludes the adrenal strength of grim determination.

Other feats show case his ability to do what he wants, notice how Nick Fury questioned Steve on being able to throw his shield at a in flight ICBM. And why shouldn't he? A ICBM travels about 13-15,000 mph.

Nick Fury: Fer crying out loud you can't possibly think that....that....(as he sees the shield get closer and then much closer to it)

Nick Fury: I must have forgotten who I was talking too. When Captain America says he's gonna get something done. He get's it done.

An entire skyscraper falls on them( skyscrapers vary in weight but some can weight up to 40,000 tons or much more). There only hope Cap uses the impact absorbing shield. That scan makes it clear that it can only take so much of that weight. It absorbs force/impact but it doesn't make that weight magically "disappear". This is a momentous feat for sure. As it states the rest of the weight is being held up by the mightiest will on the planet.

Cap believes in the dream so much, he defeats Nightmare who is God in his realm.

#2 Posted by SavageDragon (2252 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm interesting and detailed post. Maybe there is something to that, it could also just be what the writers feel works for the story at any given situation.

#3 Posted by LaserLambert (636 posts) - - Show Bio

That's the power of Freedom.

#4 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Sinister:How!?

I've always like this one. During WW2 Sinister creates N2 from Namors blood. Sinister is a man of logic and science. He was thoroughly impressed with Namor destroying a submarine to his total power. He even made N2 superior to Namor and had him defeat the original torch. Sinister remarked as he could not understand how Captain America did what he did. Captain America the unexpected was Sinister's answer to his question..

This one I always liked.

Korvac: For you alone have managed to hurt me!

Cap: I'll find a way to stop you!

Korvac: Given time, I almost believe you would!

A lot of the Avengers died and no one was able to hurt Korvac not Thor nor even Ironman. All accept Captain America was the first one and he made sure to let him know that this is just a man! That was able to hurt him. After this Wonderman also tried his luck and this same form of Korvac showed he could still handle Wonderman hits as well, and yet Steve was still able to hurt this same form!.

Like I said this is just my theory but I some times believe that Steve's belief of believing is what makes him stronger then the strongest. Hope you enjoyed.

#5 Posted by tg1982 (2712 posts) - - Show Bio

There is the saying "mind over matter", but I think with the Korvac pics it could simply be that Cap caught him off guard, and Korvac wasn't aware of him, Basically Cap blindsided him which could be the reason.

And with the jump, I think "super human" was just hyperbole by the writer, also Cap with the SSS, would and is able (as we both know) to do things that other humans simply can't without some kind of augmentation.

I do agree with you about Cap's strength in his beliefs and convictions, That's one of the reasons he's my favorite comic character, and a lot of writers want to get that through, so a lot of villains (especially super-powered ones) don't expect him to be who and what he is so that surprises them as well. This is just my opinion.

I do like your post and see you put a lot of thought and effort into it. And I think you did a good job. Keep it up!!! :-)

#6 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks man I always appreciate others opinions and yours I really like. The Korvac one I agree with you. He caught him off guard for sure but his power level display was the same with Wonderman, as he showed he could still shrugg off Wonderman hits before Wondy noticed that he was powered up with energy again, as Wondy had him down. But that is there "common" denominator to show case Steve. But it was Steve who first waited for him to be off guard and with no energy field, that also stands out in my mind. Which you brought up......sound tactics for sure.

As for the term "super human strength" being hyper bole. I'm going to have to disagree with you on that since the writer made that scene a big effort on his part by explaining muscles/superhuman strength and then further elaborates on the how because of adrenal/determination.....for sure. But thanks as always criticism is always important. Because if everyone had the same opinion it would be way to easy....... in life.

#7 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's another that I like. Sheer will combined with SSS equals the impossible. Cap heals a bullet to the head in 12 minutes and comes back from the dead.

Doctor:Time of death 3:08 Am.

Cap:Wakes up from death.

Doc: Impossible.

Shield Agent: Unique metabolism(SSS).Until he fought his way back by sheer force of will.

#8 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm, interesting post.

It brings to mind something mentioned in Warren Ellis' Extremis. One futurist postulated that perhaps Erskine's formula was a Hieronymus machine - a device that works exactly to the intention of its creator. That Erskine's pure will forced the Super-Soldier Serum into working, which was why it could never be duplicated (though it has been in recent times). Of course, this is just a theory, but still - food for thought.

#9 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

Hmm, interesting post.

It brings to mind something mentioned in Warren Ellis' Extremis. One futurist postulated that perhaps Erskine's formula was a Hieronymus machine - a device that works exactly to the intention of its creator. That Erskine's pure will forced the Super-Soldier Serum into working, which was why it could never be duplicated (though it has been in recent times). Of course, this is just a theory, but still - food for thought.

Thank's veshark. Do you know the title/issue number for that? Could be good for me to have.

#10 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@krauser99

Iron Man Vol. 4, Issue 2. It's part of the Extremis arc by Ellis and Adi Granov. I believe it was Tony's former mentor Sal who mentioned it - he suggested that it was Erskine's sheer force of will that made the Super-Soldier Serum work exactly like a perfect miracle serum.

#11 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Now this issue I don't actually have, so forgive me if I have the context wrong since I found these scans. Thor trapped by the mind control of Red Skull, as Cap was able to break free of that mind control! Again the power of Steve breaks out! Steve is like a living walking green lantern ring.

This is no ordinary man.

Unwavering and noble heart.

Thor being mind controlled.

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#12 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@krauser99

Iron Man Vol. 4, Issue 2. It's part of the Extremis arc by Ellis and Adi Granov. I believe it was Tony's former mentor Sal who mentioned it - he suggested that it was Erskine's sheer force of will that made the Super-Soldier Serum work exactly like a perfect miracle serum.

Thanks.

#13 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice!!!!!!!!!!

Good stuff Veshark. You have made my day :)

#15 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice!!!!!!!!!!

Good stuff Veshark. You have made my day :)

It's what I do xD

#16 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap fights the alien that is called the captive. It was a captive or in imprisoned by other aliens due to it's immense powers. It's race has overthrown other planets as it drains the life force from them. This being due to is power was trapped in in Black Hole Star and yet survived and escaped. This is what Cap is up against. In this last fight Cap is weary and after fighting off the other aliens by mistake not knowing they were the one's seeking to save all life. Cap does one last shield throw with all his strength, as that very shield throw made Cap pass out, due to using all his strength. But it was a success as he downed the creature(downed a creature that is powerful enough to live in a star) so the Magnoids could come and collect there prisoner. This time they put the captive in another star as the being shows he can survive in it but this time this star is going to go Nova! Supposedly the creature dies this time and was unaware of this difference.

Alien Jailers:Incredible is seems though. The interfering earth man has accomplished our task!

#17 Edited by PowerHerc (85336 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America is never to be underestimated.

#18 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Practically everyone seen this one.

Although I must say this is Loeb(sigh) but even he does seem to capture the spirit of of Steve to believe he can win against the odds. Spiderman seems to even wonder about it, when Steve remarks lets finish this!

Spiderman: Uh ok?(but why shouldn't he it's the Hulk) As he throws a half baked punch.

Spiderman. Truth is, I think he could've taken down a mountain if he wanted to.

#19 Posted by MuyJingo (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting post. Is there anything really alluding to that though, through what writers have said or the like? I mean, all of these feats have him doing stuff he shouldn't be capable off, so how do you separate it from PIS?

#20 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

A some what oldie but still a goodie :)

Steve tanks it while others like Justice who has a regenerative healing factor and Plastic Man stretch like powers are out cold. But not this Super Soldier. I don't even think Steve drops from it like the others.

#21 Edited by PowerHerc (85336 posts) - - Show Bio

I got that issue of "Avengers" where Cap took on Korvac( during his moment of weakness) when I was a kid. It was an awesome moment and is definitely one of the best examples of Cap's fighting spirit and never surrender attitude.

#22 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc said:

I got that issue of "Avengers" where Cap took on Korvac( during his moment of weakness) when I was a kid. It was an awesome moment and is definitely one of the best examples of Cap's fighting spirit and never surrender attitude.

I agree with you. Cap is tactically sound and patiently waited for a moment, but what really makes that impressive to me. Is that same Korvac even without his energy field showed he could tank Wonderman's colossal strikes. The fact that Cap can even hurt this being is definitely a testament to him for sure.

#23 Posted by MaccyD (5111 posts) - - Show Bio

Now this issue I don't actually have, so forgive me if I have the context wrong since I found these scans. Thor trapped by the mind control of Red Skull, as Cap was able to break free of that mind control! Again the power of Steve breaks out! Steve is like a living walking green lantern ring.

This is no ordinary man.

Unwavering and noble heart.

Thor being mind controlled.

about this ad

Damn! You took the one I was going to choose :P

Btw I think Thor was manipulated/brainwashed not mind controlled.

This proves that the cap is able to resist professor X, the greatest telepath on Earth, using willpower alone.

#24 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio
@maccyd said:
@krauser99 said:

Now this issue I don't actually have, so forgive me if I have the context wrong since I found these scans. Thor trapped by the mind control of Red Skull, as Cap was able to break free of that mind control! Again the power of Steve breaks out! Steve is like a living walking green lantern ring.

This is no ordinary man.

Unwavering and noble heart.

Thor being mind controlled.

about this ad

Damn! You took the one I was going to choose :P

Btw I think Thor was manipulated/brainwashed not mind controlled.

This proves that the cap is able to resist professor X, the greatest telepath on Earth, using willpower alone.

Could be? Makes more sense to be mind control, since that is what Red Skull was doing a lot to others.

#25 Posted by MaccyD (5111 posts) - - Show Bio

@krauser99: From what I read it was Honest John, the Living Propaganda who turned Thor against them and not Red Skull and I don't think Honest John uses mind control.

#26 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd said:

@krauser99: From what I read it was Honest John, the Living Propaganda who turned Thor against them and not Red Skull and I don't think Honest John uses mind control.

I'll take your word for it since I don't have the book.

#27 Edited by MaccyD (5111 posts) - - Show Bio

@krauser99: I could be wrong, but that's what it looked like to me. It's the first arc of Uncanny Avengers if you ever want to read it yourself :)

#28 Edited by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd said:

@krauser99: I could be wrong, but that's what it looked like to me. It's the first arc of Uncanny Avengers if you ever want to read it yourself :)

This wiki source(which are not always "reliable" states in uncanny avengers vol1 #3 that Red uses his new mental powers to control Thor.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Uncanny_Avengers_Vol_1_3

Do you have this book with you so you can verify for me? Would appreciate it.

#29 Edited by cameron83 (7643 posts) - - Show Bio

@krauser99

I found some stuff for you.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cap-vs-deathstroke-6585/?page=4 Besides the severe ignorance and underestimation of Cap,this thread has some good scans of him.

So does this (which is 25 pages,btw) http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t390466.html

And this

http://thacmaster.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=respeck&action=display&thread=749

http://thecomicsledger.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=respect&action=display&thread=136 which is linked with @spidey_15's profile pics

And comicbookresources "SUPERHERO FEATS: CAPTAIN AMERICA",has some...although most of them are broken. Is it possible that you can find them or something? You seem to have a lot.

btw,a person that seems incredibly knowledgeable on Cap is @vmole

Also,do you have any feats for Cap's mental functions (besides that one from Uncanny Avengers above).

I recall two (that I don't have):

It being stated and shown that the SSS enhances his brain and mental functions. Which is why he is able to learn things so quickly and in seconds (I think that it looks like a collage and the main color is blue in the background) and one with Cap resisting the Scourge of Worlds (whatever that is).

Any others??

In one of those threads above,Cap resists force of Nuke launch and he also rips off hangar doors.

Do you have any significant showings of Cap's strength? Speed? And mental functions?

I believe in Civil War he was able to hold on to a jet from the outside,which is,no doubt,impressive.

#30 Edited by Extremis (3363 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Cap being the leader and all there's always times where he'll step outside his normal abilities, from a writing standpoint. But yeah, idk, some people get really pissed about PIS stuff. Never really seen it where it bothered me. Well, actually Cap lifting Thor's hammer I guess lol.

#31 Posted by Squares (8392 posts) - - Show Bio

So what can Cap transform into? Is he an Autobot or a Decepticon?

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