The reasons Marvel Now will not work as well as The New 52

Posted by krspaceT (1509 posts) - - Show Bio

First blog post of mine.

Following nearly a year of DC dominating Marvel in the comic selling department, a trend only broken by Avengers Vs X-Men, which got so much hate that it probably cost Marvel more readers than it gained, Marvel announced a plan to relaunch several titles in order to attract new readers like the New 52 did.

There are so many reasons why it will fail

  1. Follow the Leader Format

The iconic Crisis scene

Comics and every other business with competition always copy ideas from the one who does them first. Cars, electronics, its all the same. Marvel's strength is that it avoids rebooting itself as often as DC. The entire idea of doing that is to make it a bit less, crazy as DC's continuity. Them changing this policy is pretty much them admitting DC has good ideas, and gives a rip off feel.

2. Incomplete refresh

Gambit #5

I've seen people complain about how several new series were launched before Marvel Now. Hawkeye, Miss Marvel and Gambit. The series are new, but won't get the same hype as the new #1s. That's note even pointing out how other titles aren't getting refreshed, such as Wolverine and the X-men or for that matter, a lot of the X-men titles, bar Legacy.

To put this into perspective: not only does it make new fans hesitant to pick up X-men books, but it means that new fans will be mostly pushed to only buying these new books. Many DC fans worry about there being 52 Batman books, but Marvel Now is practically going to make Marvel only Avengers books.

The New 52 reset a lot of things, which upset people. The nature of Tim Drake's partial changes are bad enough, but Marvel wants to play a game like that with their entire line?

3. X-Men not represented well

Wolverine & The X-Men #15

The X-men have been getting the short end of the stick recently. Only four new X-men books have been released for Marvel Now, none of them being X-men team books. You have two X-Force books, a Wolverine book and All New X-Men. The new readers won't be getting books featuring the true nature of the X-men ,as they won't be willing to go after the lengthier X-books still out. X books have also taken a huge hit with the cancellations, loosing New Mutants, Uncanny X-men and the original Uncanny X-Force, Wolverine and Legacy books.

Why not relaunch more X books. Your doing it with plenty of Avengers.

Even if some sections of the DC universe, like Batman, feel like they are over compensated, they didn't ignore other major franchises, like Superman or Green Lantern, to do it.

4. Superior Spider Man

A darker, edgier Spiderman? Didn't the fans riot when the writers did One More Day-Brand New Day? Aren't they already Broken Based over Miles Morales? Didn't they learn from the Clone Saga....the storyline that nearly BANKRUPTED THEM! With the success of the Amazing Spiderman Universe of movies, assuming its not Marvel Cinematic, shouldn't they be trying to keep Spiderman like his movie counterpart. You know, like how they gave Wolverine a few extra feet in height to go with X-men verse movies?

Not saying they need to bring Gwen Stacy back and kill her again to play with Amazing Spiderman 3 's apparent plot, but if they are trying to

Even if some DC young heroes, like Beast Boy or Blue Beetle, feel darker, you can still see their original characteristics in them. But what part of Superior fits in with our wise cracking, web head?

It doesn't

5. No Risks Taken, Nothing To Be Gained

Nearly all the titles that were redone by Marvel are big names, Mobius being an exception. No matter how much they suck, people will buy Thor, Hulk or Iron Man books.

Even the lesser known books, like the Guardians of the Galaxy and Nova, are going to get attention because of how the Guardians, and thus Nova, got bumped to high list material by their run, and the upcoming movie.

The Young Avengers will get attention for just having Avengers in the name.

Doesn't Marvel have other options to try to get some flair of less popular characters into the spotlight? Runaways? Doctor Strange? Power Pack? Even Cyclops having a title would be decent enough!

One could point out titles like Blackhawks and Mister Terrific for reasons you aren't supposed to do that. But then I point out Animal Man, I, Vampire, Dial H and of course, AQUAMAN!

6. Lack of Minorities and Woman

Captain Marvel (2012) #1

Call it Affirmative Action if you will, but Marvel frankly lacks females staring in stories or doing much in others. Miss Marvel is one of the few to do so, The only book that is in Marvel Now that is female led are re titles not relaunches. What ever happened to books led by X-23, Black Widow or Storm. While we are at it, there are virtually no minorities with their own solo titles in place, leaving a white wall of Marvel books. You have Falcon, The jerk cat guy who must not be named or given proper capitals due tot he fact he earned my hate, and War Machine, why not use them.

The New 52 has Batwing, Batwoman, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Worlds Finest and Swords and Sorcery with female leads, let alone main characters like Mera and Hawkgirl. All the minorities in Marvel are good for is back up people while the Avengers, Spiderman and Wolverine dominate.

7. Loss of the recently cancelled series feel and turning it 180 along with the characters

FF #1 cover

DC has done this to to an extent with series like Stormwatch and Batgirl, I'll admit it, but Marvel does it a bit too drastically. Nova would be a good example, and comparable to what was done with Batgirl. Then you have FF, which changes from a series to spotlight the Richard Children and other younger characters like Leech or the old Power Pack. Thunderbolts, Secret Avengers, Superior Spiderman......they are completely changed. Books meant to be about redeeming villains, black ops hero work and Marvel's happy guy change to Team Anti Hero, a government team and...whatever happens to Spidey.

That's not even getting to putting Storm or Colossus on X-FORCE! Those two don't kill as readily as say, Wolverine or Cable. At least in the New 52, characters who got a complete 180 have a cosmic retcon to blame.

That's not even asking what happens to Secret Avengers like Captain Britain.

Look, I'll admit some of the Marvel Now stuff is decent. Young Avengers returning, taking some old characters back like Darkhawk and it might just have less plot holes than The New 52. But I still think it has more problems than The New 52 will have, and will over all have less of a lasting affect on Marvel as the New 52 to DC for good, but likely for ill.

#1 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (6028 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with all of your points and this can be problematic for Marvel NOW. Even though the concept is interesting, I still can't believe that Marvel NOW is being started because of Avengers vs. X-Men. If it was started after some other event, I would have been okay with this.

#2 Edited by OmegaHans (209 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree somewhat... but to me personally, I mean it's not going to really change much of anything. Marvel did it as a cheap marketing ploy. They even did the group photo with all the heroes posing thing like the New 52 did, and it's like, cmon...

And I don't notice anything regarding outside earth, like with Silver Surfer, Eternals, Inhumans, Galactus and such, which I'd be most pleased to see some more space operas again.

They've got a lot of areas in the MU they have not touched in years and should probably think about bringing back. Like the Magic based books too. For goodness sake, can we please fix the Sorcerer Supreme issue now? Either bring Drumm back or get someone else on there! That whole thing was just deaded and thrown to the wind for no reason.

Basically I like Marvel, but I really don't care for most of Marvel's writers. DC has made better strides over the years with their storytelling, while Marvel seems to be dropping the ball a lot. Lousy long winded events that don't make much sense are overhyped bags of hot air while some of the stories that they do write pretty good are cancelled or ended too early.

All the same, it'll probably work for a few months, then it'll plunge into the mundane like Heroes Reborn did.

#3 Posted by Lvenger (21239 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice blog. Though I do trust Slott to know what he's doing on Spider-Man. Slott's the main reason Spider-Man's been redeemed after OMD and Brand New Day. He has a great handle on the character and hopefully what he does next will be interesting to see.

#4 Posted by Lamenoire (197 posts) - - Show Bio

just one thing : Marvel/dan Slott never said that spider-man would become grim hero like Batman. Slott said that the focus of stories for Superior Spider-Man will be on the dark and weird, but not the grim-gritty you would see like in Punisher or Batman. He referenced 'Death of Captain Stacy', 'Death of Gwen Stacy' and 'Kraven's Last Hunt' as examples of dark Spider-Man tales.

#5 Posted by SupremeHyperion (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not worried and I'm sure they will do fine. I'm pretty sure Marvel fans for the most will love it like hardcore DC fans think the new 52 is cool.

#6 Posted by SC (13396 posts) - - Show Bio

I think with point one, the counter is to say the top company doesn't have to take as many risks. So its not so much as follow the leader as copy what works which all companies all do when they can. Was the New 52 following Heroes Reborn or whatever? Kinda no, kinda yeah depending on certain factors. Obviously the gap between the compared events are shorter with NEW 52 and Marvel Now, but its still more of a perception thing that rarely tends to actually influence people as far as admitting things as " copycat factor" I also think your idea of Marvels strength is a bit off. I mean if only it were that simple eh? 2. Is actually a good thing to me, because hype and sales are very different things. DC knew going into New 52 that a lot of titles would be culled because their own books were competition with each other. Marvel having some series already in full swing and spreading release dates is a superior tactic with the advantage of hindsight. I don't see how Marvel is lacking with females and minorities either except for in a very superficial sense that ignores more important aspects like context and content. I mean you cite Worlds Finest as a positive? No mention of Elektra's return to an ongoing title, Psylocke leading a team, Sif starring in a book, Rogue's new role, Jean's return, but then again this is all sort of subjective stuff. Oh and Black Panther's new role. Main point here for me though, is what's more important? Having Sif star in a book called Journey Into Mystery for 2 years or having a Sif series cancelled after 7 just so Marvel can say Hey wow look at us, we are so progressive.       
 
Anyway, really great blog. Oh and its a first blog, thats great! I don't agree with every point but I agree with a lot of them. I also don't think Marvel Now is intended to work as well as New 52. Its only designed to work as well as getting back majority market share which it probably will do. Lets face it, thats how Marvel and DC actually work. They are playing for money, not bragging rights.    

Moderator
#7 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (6028 posts) - - Show Bio
@OmegaHans said:

I agree somewhat... but to me personally, I mean it's not going to really change much of anything. Marvel did it as a cheap marketing ploy. They even did the group photo with all the heroes posing thing like the New 52 did, and it's like, cmon...

And I don't notice anything regarding outside earth, like with Silver Surfer, Eternals, Inhumans, Galactus and such, which I'd be most pleased to see some more space operas again.

They've got a lot of areas in the MU they have not touched in years and should probably think about bringing back. Like the Magic based books too. For goodness sake, can we please fix the Sorcerer Supreme issue now? Either bring Drumm back or get someone else on there! That whole thing was just deaded and thrown to the wind for no reason.

Basically I like Marvel, but I really don't care for most of Marvel's writers. DC has made better strides over the years with their storytelling, while Marvel seems to be dropping the ball a lot. Lousy long winded events that don't make much sense are overhyped bags of hot air while some of the stories that they do write pretty good are cancelled or ended too early.

All the same, it'll probably work for a few months, then it'll plunge into the mundane like Heroes Reborn did.

I agree with all this!
#8 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel Now and the New 52 are an apples and oranges comparison. One is a new direction, the other is a semi-reboot.

That said I also am not enthused by most of the Marvel Now changes, the problem is not change itself, but how much and if it is actually better than what is being replaced.

#9 Posted by kid Apollo (721 posts) - - Show Bio

1. I disagree with, there hasn't been an original idea since the invention of the printing press. If it was 2012 or 2022 Marvel would still get shit talked about copying DC. If Image comics were to give all their books a new #1 would they be copying Marvel?

2. I'm on the fence. If its a solid title then I've got no problem with it transferring over. Hawkeye is pretty sweet, Gambit is always a good time, and i've heard lots of good things about Captain Marvel's new series. On the other hand if the title was already sh*t and wasn't canceled then its one of those 'why wasn't this rebooted?' moments.

3. I COULD NOT AGREE MORE! I've been addicted to Marvel's merry mutants since i was 3 years old. It's a pretty big piss off to see how poorly they're represented in Marvel NOW. Sure there's books featuring mutants but where are all the X-men teams? (I'm not asking for 50 of them, just a solid core team. and the X-Forces don't count)Oh and Legacy isn't getting the axe. It was focus on Legion trying to live up to the Prof's legacy in Marvel NOW.

4. I kinda have this feeling like they're gonna pull a New Coke thing on us. Set up this new Spidey so that everyone keeps saying they want Pete back, then when he eventually returns to the title, the book will sell really good because its Spidey Classic. It's a bit of a waiting game.

5. I fully agree but look at this from the other perspective. How much faith can you put in a book that doesn't feature a 'headliner'? Sure, most characters can pump out a 5, 7, or 12 issue run, but i think they're looking for longevity. I'd love to see a Sorcerer Supreme book (with or without Dr. Strange) but it's hard to take a chance with unproven, untested characters/teams.

6. I hate to say it but it comes down to #5 again. Almost everyone knows who Wonder Woman is, she's a staple in DC. Miss/Captain Marvel, Spider Woman, and Black Widow are some of Marvel's most prominent female heroes. I enjoyed X-23's solo series, and a bad ass Black Widow title would be awesome, but does prominence equal sales? i think not.

7. Again I'm on the fence with this one. At its core i don't think Thunderbolts has changed that much. It's still a book about redemption, with the seedy pasts of Elektra, the Punisher, and Venom its a good chance for them to fight the good fight. Red Hulk was made for this role, he's highly trained by the U.S. Army, not to mention the fact that he's a Hulk. He doesn't belong on the Avengers. I'm excited for the new Secret Avengers title, im hoping they stay away from the 'lets all go to space' thing and tackle more real world problems. Drug/MGH and people trafficking, and that sort of thing. Real. Gritty. Sh*t. Storm and Colossus joining the X-Forces doesn't necessarily mean they're going to become killers. The original run of X-force had Cable and Domino (and maybe Feral) as killers, the rest of the team wasn't. As for the FF... I'm still scratching my head over that one.

#10 Posted by darthfury78 (948 posts) - - Show Bio

With regards to the Black Widow and Spider-Woman, why doesn't Marvel place them into Spider-Man's world through a potential Madam Web spinoff series?

#11 Posted by TheReaper111 (129 posts) - - Show Bio

im just glad they are putting taskmaster on secret avengers now

#12 Posted by SUNMAN (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it will sell just cause marvel knows how to market it their product and many marvel fans by the books regardless of stories or quality.

However, I agree with all the other points in the OP

#13 Posted by thveej (203 posts) - - Show Bio

Superior Spiderman has me worried, but I wont judge it till it comes out and till I read #700 of ASM. I do like where Cyclops is going (and All new X-men was pretty bad ass) but I do agree that the X-men books are a big cluster #^#$ &%. I'm gonna stick with Wolverine and X-men and All new X-men, the other teams I don't even want to deal with (if Uncanny X-force is good, I'll read that too) We shall see how this goes, but I mean this isn't something new to Marvel. They always re number their books (Thor was just relaunched not long ago, finished at #22; I lost count how many times Captain America changed numbering and the X-Men book always get renumbered, besides Legacy and X-Factor).

So I don't know, I'm glad that the continuity is kept, but some of the changes just seem to be changes for sake of marketing. Plus Hickman ending his FF run and Uncanny X-force finishing is sad, but I'm optimistic about the new books for both of them (mb not so much for Uncanny X-force). Plus Hickman writing Avengers could be super cool.

Just Please Marvel no more through away events, just chill for a while and tell some stories. A cross over like Spider Island is totally fine, but please, please no more Fear Itself style events. I just want to read some god damn stories that are not all inter linked to a stupid event. I don't even remember the last good Avengers arch, last few years its all been big event tie ins I swear. The one thing I do like about new 52 is that they let their big books kind of develop without forcing throw away block buster events with tie ins.

I agree with them not taking many chances too, what I love about new 52 is all these weird random ass comics. I end up not liking most of them and lets be honest most of them get canceled after a few months; but I would have never have picked up Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Dial H, Team 7, Voodoo and to some extend He-Man without the relaunch.

#14 Posted by Agypt2020 (60 posts) - - Show Bio

This my feeling of the whole Marvel Now....YOU'RE FIRED!! No wonder owned by another entity than the man who once made Marvel Excelsior! The company is destroyed and so are my favorite comics. So sad and pity. :(

#15 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

1. WELL, technically i wouldnt take this as a negative, so yes, Marvel Now is a follow up of New 52, its an unoriginal move, doesnt necesarily mean that its bad just for that

2. oh come on, its not like continuity in Marvel has ever mattered at all

3.This is a very good point, but i think the main problem is all the turns and changes that the X-franchise has been getting in the last couple of years, there is just so many times that the entire status quo can change forever

4. hold on, lets not jump the gun on this one, the clone saga Failed so miserably for many reasons and factors, being a dark storyline wasnt the biggest one, even if ppl hate Superior Spiderman, its never going to be more hated than OMD, and even if it fails critically, it will take a while to fail in sales

5. I do agree with this, Marvel has the bad habit of putting all its eggs on the same basket and this is exactly what happen, but i wouldnt think its all 100% wrong, i do love Hawkeye but there is an obvious lack of diversity in genres

6. agree 100%, Marvel just has no idea how to grab a woman and make an series about her, its just rocket science for them, they just make a set of female titles, then the titles fail miserably on sales, then they cancel them and make a new batch, rinse and repeat, its absurd

7.this i think you are wrong, but im impartial, mainly cause i never really cared much or at all of some of the runs that Marvel was producing, probably FF and F4 were the best but those runs werent canceled, they ended, i dont think nothing of big worth was lost

#16 Posted by BR_Havoc (1340 posts) - - Show Bio

You do make some very good points but I do not agree with all of them.

Yes it is easy to see that Marvel Now is there attempt to get new readers like DC's new 52 was, I agree Marvel is playing it safe here with not doing a hard reboot like there counter parts but if you ask me that is a smart move. In many ways the new52 was good for new readers but life long readers like myself have very little to be happy about. I mean the books I enjoy of the new 52 act as if the reboot did not happen. Many of there highest selling titles are books that were not or were effect very little by the reboot.

When it comes to some of the smaller books being rebooted before the bigger ones, is a strange move in my opinion but maybe they did not want characters like Hawkeye or Captain Marvel's books being lost in the fold? let them have a little bit of lime light to get a fan base then release the others?

This is were we see eye to eye. I feel the X men are just lost right now there has been so many deaths and rebirths that it scared off many readers like myself. Its my hope that people like Bendis can get is back on track but I will tread lightly on those books.

Other have already said it there is no way in hell that Spidey could get any worse from OMD. I doubt that Slott is going to just kill off Peter or do something like that. It is just going to be a temporary thing, all I can hope for is that it will be a good story.

I do not understand your point about lack of minorities in Marvel, They have many strong black characters such as Storm ,Black Panther and the Now version of Nick Fury. I agree that they could use a few more female heroes and that DC does do a better job with female characters but DC does a terrible job with minorities I mean they have tired so hard during there reboot to bring in gay characters or minorities but in the end it feels forced. Just look and Baz I mean his character is anything but progressive if DC wanted to do something progressive for a Muslim character it would of been to make a female Green Lantern.

If you read the interview with Matt Fraction that I believe was posted on this site the FF may have a different line up but the children that were in the last series are still there and now the Mole children pass there affection on to the might Jen because Ben is off planet.

All I want out of the Marvel Now relaunch are good stories that do not rely on cheap shocks or twists. DC promised many thing that they failed to deliver with a large scale reboot so maybe Marvel with there small reboot can at least hold a few promises.

#17 Posted by xmentas (175 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree with number 3,

Uncanny X-men IS returning, and there's way more than four x-books. Unless i've completely missed some huge memo, or Marvel's website is wrong, Marvel NOW is featuring: Age of Apocalypse, All new X-men, Astonishing X-men, Cable and X-force, Uncanny X-men, Wolverine and the X-men, X-factor, Uncanny X-force, X-men Legacy, and X-men. Not to mention the character books like Gambit, Wolverine, and Savage Wolverine.

X books have also taken a huge hit with the cancellations, loosing New Mutants, Uncanny X-men and the original Uncanny X-Force, Wolverine and Legacy books.
#18 Posted by maddpanda (51 posts) - - Show Bio

I kinda feel like this rant was written a little too early. Marvel NOW is being praised for its Female-Led titles and most the the things you talked about aren't even out yet...

#19 Posted by w0nd (4076 posts) - - Show Bio

Seems to be doing alright. I hear a lot more of DC titles being canceled recently than marvel ones.

#20 Posted by danhimself (22718 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm enjoying more Marvel titles than I am DC titles....DC da%n near completely alienated me and a crap ton of other long time readers by throwing everything we loved about their company out the window and have offered like 4 good titles out of 52

Marvel has kept the same continuity and instead chose a kind of logical ending point for almost all of their creative teams and gave a lot of their books a fresh take...the only complete garbage title at Marvel right now is Thunderbolts

#21 Posted by w0nd (4076 posts) - - Show Bio

and what do you know even more dc titles canceled...what is it now like the new dc 37

#22 Posted by w0nd (4076 posts) - - Show Bio

and what do you know even more dc titles canceled...what is it now like the new dc 37

#23 Edited by DRDOOMSDAY390 (1272 posts) - - Show Bio

wow you put alot of work on your trolling and downplay marvel comics, sorry to say but dc comics ain't doing any better either mostly some of the new 52 titles keep geting canceled and all, dude your nothing but dc fanboy that got nothing else to do oh by the way DC dominating Marvel in the comic selling department? dude dc had loses and wins against them, really this is sad whatever im out good bye.

#24 Posted by Renchamp (3016 posts) - - Show Bio

I am so glad that this rash and brash blog was mostly and fantastically incorrect.

I am also confused as to why it was put in the Cable forums since it has nothing to do with him.

Moderator
#25 Posted by UncannyCyclops (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Did new 52 work well? I dropped most DC titles because of it.

Also Spider-Man sales increased with Superior Spider-Man.

#26 Posted by Marionettegeist (1912 posts) - - Show Bio

Did new 52 work well? I dropped most DC titles because of it.

Sales wise, Marvel has been dominating DC. They produce less comics per month, and maintain a higher market share (most recently by nearly 10%).

#27 Posted by JakeN7 (13261 posts) - - Show Bio

So...what does this have to do with Cable?

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.