Blue Marvel
Character » Blue Marvel appears in 220 issues.
When Adam discovered his super-powers, he fashioned a secret identity with which to protect his country, and became Blue Marvel. He served as a hero for years, and was one of the most popular heroes of his time. Adam was pressured by the government to retire, because of how much power he had and for being black. He was forced out of retirement to face his greatest foe and former best friend, Anti-Man.
How Strong is Blue Marvel
" @Vitality said:" @Vermillo said:Exactly he is stronger than thor, No one could be stronger than the Hulk but he would be pretty damn close ""So if I read right...He would be the black version of the Sentry without the mental problems. "No...you didn't read right. "
Didn't his creator say he thought Hulk is only about as strong as Thor at his angriest, so Thor is generally stronger and that Blue Marvel is in the same group as them. Has a good chance to win and a good chance to lose?
Now that Blue Marvel has actually started using anti-matter powers I think he could very likely beat thor. In a pure strength match I think he could pull out a win, but i also think it would be an epic fight. I'd like to see more of BM though.
" @SC: Well going back to the fights between Thor and the Hulk strength wise. Hulk has bested him several time. If you count lighting strike which was later retconned as a Thor victory, and him taking the hulk out into space as a victory which was also retconned. It still doesn't show Thor beating him with strength alone. Also is BFR's just puts him above anyone else. Now that Blue Marvel has actually started using anti-matter powers I think he could very likely beat thor. In a pure strength match I think he could pull out a win, but i also think it would be an epic fight. I'd like to see more of BM though. "
First off, no, I am not here to argue with you about Thor VS Hulk in a Blue Marvel thread lol, we can do that in the Battles Forum okay? I am sure you can respect that, you seem cool. Almost everything you say here is an opinion. Thats what I am calling you out on. If you think Blue Marvel can beat Thor, thats fine, you might think Wolverine can beat Thor, or that Hulk can beat Galactus, thats what opinions are. Opinions are great like that, and like I aim here to provide insight, because I respect the writer who came up with Blue Marvel. I love that he knows Marvel inside out and is a fan. You can tell by how he has respect for Namor, a guy he could have had Blue Marvel destroy. Anyway, below is a quote from him okay? If someone's word on Blue Marvel and power should be respected, its the guy that made him.
"My personal opinion is that NO Marvel character should be stronger than Thor. The Hulk should be able to equal him if he gets mad enough, but that's about it. And as a god, Thor SHOULD be stronger that ANY mortal. Even a SUPER-mortal. If Thor's not stronger, what's the point of him being immortal? He's just a strong loudmouth with a hammer who gets he's butt whupped.
So, what I'm trying to do with Adam is have him sit down at the table with the likes of Thor, Hulk, Sentry, Wonder Man, Hercules, Superman, Captain Marvel, J'onn J'onzz, Mon'El, Supreme, Mr. Majestic, Hyperion, etc., but he is NOT all-powerful" - Kevin Grevioux
Thats very admirable, and why as far as I know, no one hates Blue Marvel as much as Sentry is hated. Its not about who beats who. The best and strongest can be beat a lot and should be beat a lot, only a biased one minded individual with a point to prove would look at something and apply and project it as what will always happen. I think Blue Marvel could beat Thor too, and Silver Surfer, I think Hercules might beat Blue Marvel though, then Silver Surfer might beat Hercules. We definitely agree on the last part lol MORE BLUE MARVEL!
Here is another quote to help with the OP
"But if this black man can survive the explosion of a nuclear weapon at ground zero, and can lift a meteor the size of Arkansas, he immediately becomes an object of fear. That's what I thought was interesting. Because given what was happening during that time period, if Adam wanted to he could've ended all the strife against blacks in a violent way. But that's not his way. It's an EVIL way that he wants no part of."
and "He's VERY beatable. In whatever he does he will struggle and sometimes lose. That's life. You'll never, at least as long as I'm writing the character, see him stop Thor's hammer with his hand, or just stand there like it's nothing if he's hit by the Thing. But he's not a push-over either"
He has a good chance at beating Hercules, Gladiator and Thor. Own them? Probably not, and he might get beat by them as well. Really depends at what context you want to look at this, but its probably best not to take to much of a strict battles view on such a new character, or try and discern the differences between the various powerhouses. (Like if you think Hercules shouldn't be included in the same level of power as Superman, so where does that leave Blue Marvel)
He's class 100 period.It's impossible to say how strong he is for sure.We've only been shown the minimum.
Addressed to Blacharrt -
Plus lol, retconned victory from lightening strikes... lol, I respect you from what I know of you, which are some awesome Storm posts in Battles lol, but talk about propaganda..... be an equal Hulk and Thor fan, and you know Thor has matched his strength (I couldn't find their thread, but if you find it, hit me up with a link so we can get the party started ^_^)
" @blacharrt said:I'm not debating, just starting my opinion and what I have seen in comics." @SC: Well going back to the fights between Thor and the Hulk strength wise. Hulk has bested him several time. If you count lighting strike which was later retconned as a Thor victory, and him taking the hulk out into space as a victory which was also retconned. It still doesn't show Thor beating him with strength alone. Also is BFR's just puts him above anyone else. Now that Blue Marvel has actually started using anti-matter powers I think he could very likely beat thor. In a pure strength match I think he could pull out a win, but i also think it would be an epic fight. I'd like to see more of BM though. "
First off, no, I am not here to argue with you about Thor VS Hulk in a Blue Marvel thread lol, we can do that in the Battles Forum okay? I am sure you can respect that, you seem cool. Almost everything you say here is an opinion. Thats what I am calling you out on. If you think Blue Marvel can beat Thor, thats fine, you might think Wolverine can beat Thor, or that Hulk can beat Galactus, thats what opinions are. Opinions are great like that, and like I aim here to provide insight, because I respect the writer who came up with Blue Marvel. I love that he knows Marvel inside out and is a fan. You can tell by how he has respect for Namor, a guy he could have had Blue Marvel destroy. Anyway, below is a quote from him okay? If someone's word on Blue Marvel and power should be respected, its the guy that made him.
"My personal opinion is that NO Marvel character should be stronger than Thor. The Hulk should be able to equal him if he gets mad enough, but that's about it. And as a god, Thor SHOULD be stronger that ANY mortal. Even a SUPER-mortal. If Thor's not stronger, what's the point of him being immortal? He's just a strong loudmouth with a hammer who gets he's butt whupped.So, what I'm trying to do with Adam is have him sit down at the table with the likes of Thor, Hulk, Sentry, Wonder Man, Hercules, Superman, Captain Marvel, J'onn J'onzz, Mon'El, Supreme, Mr. Majestic, Hyperion, etc., but he is NOT all-powerful" - Kevin GreviouxThats very admirable, and why as far as I know, no one hates Blue Marvel as much as Sentry is hated. Its not about who beats who. The best and strongest can be beat a lot and should be beat a lot, only a biased one minded individual with a point to prove would look at something and apply and project it as what will always happen. I think Blue Marvel could beat Thor too, and Silver Surfer, I think Hercules might beat Blue Marvel though, then Silver Surfer might beat Hercules. We definitely agree on the last part lol MORE BLUE MARVEL! "
Well it's been speculated that Hulk isn't just any mortal that he is actually a being of pure energy, which is the reason he seems to overcome things and people that seem impossible otherwise. That's just something that i have been hearing in several Hulk Threads around the net. The theory seems to hold true, I don't know, personally.
But the same could be said for BM, He's not exactly human anymore, when he became a Anti-matter battery/reactor, he became a being of pure energy. It's been shown that his conscious mind holds him back from tapping into a lot of his strength. Which is a great thing for character development, but there might come a point when he goes beyond that restraint and become much more, but we won't know that unless we read more and he gets more panel time =). I hope you didn't get the idea that I think he would win every fight, because that's not what i was saying. Every good hero will lose, it's what keeps them grounded. There are lots of ways for a hero to lose. Sentry, lost big with that whole drug addiction angle. BM could lose by not saving people he intended to or he could get stomped in battle. He was beaten by the sentry when he punched him via blitz from outer space.. which was awesome.
I don't agree with you that no one should be stronger than thor in Marvel, there are levels of power. Thor is to odin as Silver surfer is to Galactus. And on a scale of Cosmic beings Galactus outweighs Odin by far. Thor does fight evil mostly on earth, surfer usually fights being usually on a much larger scale, hence he needs to be more powerful in a lot more situations. There special situation where thor would get to pull off some very cool feats like when he saved Ego, or Chaos wars. But the same could be said for the Surfer. And other characters who's powers are different from thor's. But you are completely entitled to that opinion of thor. I personally think Storm should be the most powerful.
Plus you misunderstand, your not disagreeing with ME lol, that was the opinion of the guy who made and created Blue Marvel lol. You claim he is stronger than Thor, the guy who created Blue Marvel disagrees with you lol Mortal is a relative term, you can't try and argue that term with me, it depends on the person using it and the context that they decide. (with Hulk and most characters, it can be argued either way, but its easy to see, how in context given, the perception of the levels of mortality are definitely different) To add another angle, the guy who created Thor and Hulk, also has the opinion that Thor is stronger. "Roy: And now I have what Evans and Novak would call on their show, "The Big Question," which the editor requested me to ask you: Which is stronger, Thor or the Hulk? Stan Lee: I would have to guess that Thor is stronger" later on, he brings up Hulks ability to get stronger, but even then, only to an equal level. Do you hold the opinions of creators higher than my opinion out of curiosity?
As far as opinions go I don't need to weigh in with my opinion, I am just passing on info that runs contrary to yours and pointing out your biased. You know what I love about both Kevin Grievoix and Stan Lee's answers? Even though they created these guys, they aren't trying to push their opinions and answers as hard as a lot of guys on Comic sites tend to do, it seems like people just pick a favorite and come up with every excuse and reason under the sun to justify how their character is stronger and by extension better. Everything you said can be applied to every character if you apply equality, a lot of what you say is now more ambivalent and passive, which I appreciate and naturally means I agree with a lot more.
I think you rationalization is extremely flawed as well in places, it seems set up to appease and satisfy your bias, rather than being truly objective. This is not my opinion, this is my observation. Of course most of what you know say rings true as well and is very well said.
" @blacharrt: Sure, then if someone seeks to clarify that your opinion, and evidence leading to your opinion, is just an opinion, or nothing more, you can stand to agree correct, rather than insist its more than that? Its redundant to keep informing each other of opinions. Its nice to share and all, ideally people can separate the two together as well right? You think Storm should be the most powerful, are you going to go to a thread where Someone asks about Galactus and tell them Storm IS more powerful, or will you state your opinion so they recognize it as such?The problem is in the definition of truth, fact and consistency. An Opinion can be based on lots of things, and completely lacking in truth, facts or consistency all together. But it can also be based on some of the things listed if not all. A person's opinion will vary based on their perception of the information given to them and how they interpret said information. A interpretation of one's perception can change with introduction of new information, one such way to do that is threads, and forums such as this one, Where the sharing of ideas and concepts can be had. In a thread I could create conditions in which Storm could beat Galactus, people would dispute it given what they know about Galactus to be true, or based purely on bias, that would be regardless of the parameters of the fight that I have stated. I am a storm fan but I'm realistic, i know the likelihood of her pulling out a win on Galactus under normal circumstance, are as low as her hitting a intergalactic lottery.
Plus you misunderstand, your not disagreeing with ME lol, that was the opinion of the guy who made and created Blue Marvel lol. You claim he is stronger than Thor, the guy who created Blue Marvel disagrees with you lol Mortal is a relative term, you can't try and argue that term with me, it depends on the person using it and the context that they decide. (with Hulk and most characters, it can be argued either way, but its easy to see, how in context given, the perception of the levels of mortality are definitely different) To add another angle, the guy who created Thor and Hulk, also has the opinion that Thor is stronger. "Roy: And now I have what Evans and Novak would call on their show, "The Big Question," which the editor requested me to ask you: Which is stronger, Thor or the Hulk? Stan Lee: I would have to guess that Thor is stronger" later on, he brings up Hulks ability to get stronger, but even then, only to an equal level. Do you hold the opinions of creators higher than my opinion out of curiosity?
As far as opinions go I don't need to weigh in with my opinion, I am just passing on info that runs contrary to yours and pointing out your biased. You know what I love about both Kevin Grievoix and Stan Lee's answers? Even though they created these guys, they aren't trying to push their opinions and answers as hard as a lot of guys on Comic sites tend to do, it seems like people just pick a favorite and come up with every excuse and reason under the sun to justify how their character is stronger and by extension better. Everything you said can be applied to every character if you apply equality, a lot of what you say is now more ambivalent and passive, which I appreciate and naturally means I agree with a lot more. I think you rationalization is extremely flawed as well in places, it seems set up to appease and satisfy your bias, rather than being truly objective. This is not my opinion, this is my observation. Of course most of what you know say rings true as well and is very well said. "
Sorry I misunderstood, I'm pretty old, and loopy sometimes. Beside I'm answering these things at work, which sometimes is hectic it's hard to keep up.
The funny thing about opinions is that they can be changed. I have also seen a new clip from a paper where Stan says that Hulk is the strongest. You have to take such quotes in the context that they are given. If that was given recently, and given the history of the two characters battles. But if you actually examine the actual battles between the two you could determine exactly which one has won more battles, coming out with a clear winner. Unless all of their encounters ended as a tie. Also taken into account that the characters in question may also have been retconned after said quote was given as well. I would look at that before I said whether i agree or disagree with Stan the Man.
I have no problem saying I like BM over I like a lot of other people. But one fact that makes BM very amazing is his Control over Anti-matter and how it is known to interact with the world around it. If what is said about anti-matter energy is true, he could pull off a win from almost anyone with remote ease depending on his motivation. But BM is very human, and just as flawed and everyone else. I really like that about him.
Everyone is bias to a degree in some subject or another. In a battle between thor in anyone in Marvel, I'd probably pick the other person, I hate thor. thor against DC, I'd probably pick thor. But I also have to weigh in the parameters of the fight being presented to me. Some times it's not as easy to be bias. And you have to step back and look at things objectively. In Storm vs. CM, I clearly state the conditions in which I believe storm can pull off a win, and state clearly the condition at which I think CM will win, given the parameters I have to work with. The fight could go either way, but if those conditions aren't met, storm would win every time. If they are she would lose every time. There is sooooo much gray in the world, don't you think?
The funnier things about opinions, is context, so give me the source of your new Stan Lee quote, or can you give some insight? I have seen dozens of old and new interviews from Stan the Man, he can be a little inconsistent, you know his story right? He has always been a consistently firm on Thor and Hulk matters(and respectful too, for both his characters) I hear that as an excuse all the time from some fans, you present some evidence, and they just flip it back, with little, to bad evidence, sometimes I say Hulk is the strongest myself, its easier to when thats his catchphrase, do I mean it literally? Plus No, its got nothing to do with examining the fights, more excuses, you can't get facts from fights, the way you are attempting. There is no clear winner, only someone looking for a clear winner with prejudice or an inability to to find ambiguity will find clear answers. You couldn't tell me if in a random panel, whether Hulk or Thor was hitting the other character as hard as they could, or whether they were holding back, and motivations and attitudes are a huge factor in a physical encounter and most writers realize and understand this. It allows and gives them leeway.
Then you miss the point completely. Could you in one sentence, attempt to explain back to me what my point was with my quotes? I find that you have gone on the defensive after having your opinion questioned? Or you may mistakenly believe I am trying to tell I am of the opinion Thor is stronger or that he is stronger by use of quotes, is that it?
Again, I am getting you to acknowledge your opinion as an opinion, and presenting opinions that run contrary. I am not saying your opinion is wrong at all. Antimatter in comics as well, not antimatter absolutely. Its the same with the Fallen One and Dark Matter. You want to get technical ? Characters like Thor and Ares have energy in them, that could be discovered to be a trillion times more potent than antimatter and dark matter, and then would your stance shift then?
people are bias, people also have brains and the ability to smooth out their own bias with what's known as objective information. I know you hate Thor, its quite obvious lol Its very easy to put away your bias. I believe in you, you can do it lol Try doing it here. There is much grey in the world, but I am just now curious what your thoughts are given the quote from the creators of these characters, and your opinion on whether they have more validity than me? Plus do you know think Blue Marvel is stronger than the Hulk, do you think the creators of these characters opinions have less or equal, or more weight than yours? In a thread where someone asks you about a character you like, is it really a good answer for you to give and compare that character to one that you hate? What if the poster takes your words verbatim, goes to Battles, and suddenly gets people calling his threads spite and harassing them, because you let them know, Pixie and Toad are stronger than Thor? Why not just compare Blue Marvel to Gladiator for the poster, instead of taking opportunities to champion characters you like against characters you hate?
I agree with you on willingness to listen and difference on opinion and truth and fact being shared. That's why it's very important to ask questions to clarify the information given.
I don't recall saying the quote was new, only that a read a quote from him that was opposite of what you said. The quote i am referring to I saw in the marvel.com battle threads, I'll see if i can find it for you. No i don't is his story... Now i am very curious??? You have to tell me. I don't think you mean it literally, although it would fit with the hulk theme as far as consistency would go. I disagree with not being able to judge from a fight, you are right that some fights tend to stalemate or just stop due to some kind of interference. Some fights can be shown as wins and loses. How are those defined. knockout, incapacitation, death. In the Thor versus Hulk, i have to admit is very hard to call at time especially with one or both of the characters being changed over time.
I know you were quoting the OP about thor, and i know you haven't given your opinion on the matter. I believe you stated that. Was I being Offensive at first, you said now I'm being Defensive?
I don't think I have denied that it is my opinion, I thought I clearly stated that, but i forget sometime I am not as clear as I think I am when explaining things, sometimes I think i over explain and then things get confusing. So sorry about that, if i didn't make it clearer. But there has to be a separation of opinion, fact, truth and consistency. Although they have a correlation. Its true an opinion can contend all of these things, or none of them, but fact, truth, and consistency can stand a lone. Because a person quotes them doesn't make them opinion.
It's a good think I know my bia i can put them in check when i need to. Believe it or not I'm usually a very objective person, I see all sides of a situation. I also tend to play devil's advocate a lot because of it...don't ask me why, it's just my nature.
You can't value or really judge other's opinions, i am a believer in that, but you can challenge the though process behind it. how did a+b=c. So is your opinion more valid than the creators, no. They are equal. At base levels yes he can be stronger than the Hulk, but you have to be more specific with your question. Which Hulk are you referring to? In overall strength that is tough to say given that both are being of pure energy it's possible that both could have limitless strength given that there power source is themselves. Yes it is, and this is the reason why, If you hate a character you will no doubt study them, and learn their feats, limits, personalities, traits etc. This is good because that character can show a contrast, that was not there before. Showing your character in a different light. It's better when the two characters have actually had interaction with each other, and the differences are more apparent. But the character you hate should be equal to the one you like. For ex. Thor and Hulk. I don't care for thor but I acknowledge him as a huge force in marvel, and among the most powerful being in the marvel universe. I don't like him but that's a fact I can't deny. The same could be said for the Hulk. I would hope that the person backs up what they are saying with something other than words, and that it fits in the parameters of the thread in question. You could compare him to gladiator, i suppose but if the character in question that you hate was stated to be compared to Blue Marvel in panel, which are you more likely to compare? Namor compared BM hits to both Hulk and thor.
When i say your being defensive, I mean, your bringing up a lot of unnecessary points it seems, just to be argumentative, or give credence to your own opinions, which is interesting to me, but I ain't really interested in, how you justify. Since people can justify anything. Does it matter if you can't recall saying it was new? Couldn't you just wait until you found the quote or source and then clarified whether it was or not? Stan Lee if asked by a Hulk fan, at a Hulk movie premiere would say Hulk is the strongest. If asked who is the strongest. At a Thor movie with a Thor fan, its Thor, with Sentry and that hoax (that he was a Stan Lee character) it would be Sentry. I have a ton, of research on Stan, interviews and so on, with the context usually pretty clear,, so when you find your quote, I am hoping that the context is clear. When he said what your claim, was he being serious, and what was the question asked.
You can judge a fight, you can't project your rulings to other people as if you were the sole judge. The best judge will always be the writer, since they write the characters motivations for the scenes. Motivations and characterizations are subjective. Only one ignorant with comics or again, one willing to appease their own ego, would read ant comic, and judge it and then project their judgements as fact.
Its okay, you don't have to apologize, your a smart dude and a fan of Blue Marvel, things can get muddled when we talk this much so let me try warp this up quick. Playing Devils advocate is fine, usually you play devils advocate to an opinion you don't agree with. You don't like Thor, in this thread, you would argue that Blue Marvel and Hulk ain't stronger than him. If you hate the character then you ain't really playing Devils advocate at all, so I ask you, what are you doing here lol Are you really putting your bias is check?
Why are you interlinking two different arguments as well? Lets just concentrate on one, According to the two writers i quoted, they already explain, at Hulk's angriest, he would equal Thor. So why do you bring base and all that into this? If Hulk's angriest means 1 billion tons? Thats what they see Thor as. As writers, they probably know not to give a specific number to that level.
I am saying if you hate the character of Thor, then is that helpful for a person trying to learn about Blue Marvel for you to give your opinion, stated as information? Thor was one character mentioned, you don't have to bring him up. Finally, if i decide with my opinion, that Blue Marvel is weaker than Batman, its as valid a fact as the guy that created him, is that what you are saying?
Plus sure you can value and judge other peoples opinions. My family is in danger, very ill and sick, your family is in danger, very ill and sick, whose opinion do you value more, one of the best doctors in the world specialized in illnesses, or a 15 year old kid who killed ten people after drinking and driving. Hell yea you can value and judge opinions, and question the thought processes as well lol
The guy who created Blue Marvel and wrote him, and decided his power levels, has written this "My personal opinion is that NO Marvel character should be stronger than Thor. The Hulk should be able to equal him if he gets mad enough, but that's about it. And as a god, Thor SHOULD be stronger that ANY mortal. Even a SUPER-mortal. If Thor's not stronger, what's the point of him being immortal? He's just a strong loudmouth with a hammer who gets he's butt whupped.
So, what I'm trying to do with Adam is have him sit down at the table with the likes of Thor, Hulk, Sentry, Wonder Man, Hercules, Superman, Captain Marvel, J'onn J'onzz, Mon'El, Supreme, Mr. Majestic, Hyperion, etc., but he is NOT all-powerful" and this "But if this black man can survive the explosion of a nuclear weapon at ground zero, and can lift a meteor the size of Arkansas, he immediately becomes an object of fear. That's what I thought was interesting. Because given what was happening during that time period, if Adam wanted to he could've ended all the strife against blacks in a violent way. But that's not his way. It's an EVIL way that he wants no part of."
and "He's VERY beatable. In whatever he does he will struggle and sometimes lose. That's life. You'll never, at least as long as I'm writing the character, see him stop Thor's hammer with his hand, or just stand there like it's nothing if he's hit by the Thing. But he's not a push-over either" - Kevin Grevioux
The guy who created Thor and Hulk, and wrote them for a large number of years, says ""Roy: And now I have what Evans and Novak would call on their show, "The Big Question," which the editor requested me to ask you: Which is stronger, Thor or the Hulk? Stan Lee: I would have to guess that Thor is stronger"
So we can determine that Blue Marvel is power, up there with lots of characters, but if someone tries and tells you that X and Y character are stronger than character Z, bear in mind that creators of character X and Y disagree and if you want to, should probably check to see if they are biased or why they hold their opinion, and why they state them in objective terms, especially, in answer to a question.
" @blacharrt: Sorry for late reply, I didn't get a PM lol When i say your being defensive, I mean, your bringing up a lot of unnecessary points it seems, just to be argumentative, or give credence to your own opinions, which is interesting to me, but I ain't really interested in, how you justify. Since people can justify anything. Does it matter if you can't recall saying it was new? Couldn't you just wait until you found the quote or source and then clarified whether it was or not? Stan Lee if asked by a Hulk fan, at a Hulk movie premiere would say Hulk is the strongest. If asked who is the strongest. At a Thor movie with a Thor fan, its Thor, with Sentry and that hoax (that he was a Stan Lee character) it would be Sentry. I have a ton, of research on Stan, interviews and so on, with the context usually pretty clear,, so when you find your quote, I am hoping that the context is clear. When he said what your claim, was he being serious, and what was the question asked.
You can judge a fight, you can't project your rulings to other people as if you were the sole judge. The best judge will always be the writer, since they write the characters motivations for the scenes. Motivations and characterizations are subjective. Only one ignorant with comics or again, one willing to appease their own ego, would read ant comic, and judge it and then project their judgements as fact.
Its okay, you don't have to apologize, your a smart dude and a fan of Blue Marvel, things can get muddled when we talk this much so let me try warp this up quick. Playing Devils advocate is fine, usually you play devils advocate to an opinion you don't agree with. You don't like Thor, in this thread, you would argue that Blue Marvel and Hulk ain't stronger than him. If you hate the character then you ain't really playing Devils advocate at all, so I ask you, what are you doing here lol Are you really putting your bias is check?
Why are you interlinking two different arguments as well? Lets just concentrate on one, According to the two writers i quoted, they already explain, at Hulk's angriest, he would equal Thor. So why do you bring base and all that into this? If Hulk's angriest means 1 billion tons? Thats what they see Thor as. As writers, they probably know not to give a specific number to that level.
I am saying if you hate the character of Thor, then is that helpful for a person trying to learn about Blue Marvel for you to give your opinion, stated as information? Thor was one character mentioned, you don't have to bring him up. Finally, if i decide with my opinion, that Blue Marvel is weaker than Batman, its as valid a fact as the guy that created him, is that what you are saying?
Plus sure you can value and judge other peoples opinions. My family is in danger, very ill and sick, your family is in danger, very ill and sick, whose opinion do you value more, one of the best doctors in the world specialized in illnesses, or a 15 year old kid who killed ten people after drinking and driving. Hell yea you can value and judge opinions, and question the thought processes as well lol "
I don't think i have to justify anything to anyone, only clarify so that people understand my point of view or what i'm trying to convey. And if I have a question about something it's because I don't understand someone completely, or just trying to clarify the information given. "new clip" was suppose to be "newspaper clip" sorry my mistake. We agree that it is in the context at which he says these statements that are important, but also is motivation for saying such thing. As comic book readers, the only information we have on these characters are shown in panel. What we preceive as comic book truth is in ink and paper. Could the creators intend to have a character protrayed a certain way, yes, does it always relay to the media in which we hold these character to be shown, NO.
So what do you do when the creator's words have not to be consistent with the characters he has created? Stan says both are the strongest, but thor is clearly the strongest of the two. Well when you go to the media at which we as comicreader use to judge such matter, that is not shown to be true. So if we are as reader told to follow certain realities (canon) and these realities determine what is real and what is not in comic. Am i to believe that his words supersede s what i'm told is canon? No, mainly because I don't know his intent or motivation for saying what he said. Could his motivation be to boost whatever character is on sale that week, quite possibily, could it be the company he's working for in some marketing thing, I don't know. Could it be his personal feelings, again i don't know. In the end humans are humans, flawed, fallible and can change like the win. Once in Ink and paper, it's there for all to see.
You mistook me when I said, I play devil's adovacate or maybe I missed something there in my grammer too, I don't know. i never said I was playing devil's advocate here.
Why do i bring base in the argument? Because there is a base level of strength several different hulks start out as, one of which who is capped at said base strength level. If you are going to gauge strength, it's an important fact to know. How weak and how strong can someone be it has to start somewhere. If Hulk's limit was 1 billion tons, and thor's were the same. Then they would be seen as equals and one not stronger than the other. Which would contradict what has been said about the character being stronger. But that hasn't been the case in comics. It's been stated as such that Hulk has no limit in strength. Has fought Thor, and Thor who is claimed to be strongest in Marvel, has not been able to out strength him. Nor has he been able to out strength Juggernaut as well. So this is contrary to what the creators and maybe some of the writers have said. Where is the consistency, Facts, or Truth in the matter? There is a clear contradiction, so who should you believe? The comics or the creator?
If someone is trying to learn thor, I'd tell them do research on him, but would answer any questions that I could able the character objectively, via the information I have learned from the comics. Good example, Hulk vs. Starfire. Thor was brought up as a combatant of Hulks, and Thor's combat skills came into to question. I then had to present information to prove that thor was as well trained and skilled combatant with not just a weapon but grappling as well. Again just because i don't like a character doesn't mean i won't be well informed about said character. Could someone learn some thor information from me, yes. Would I tell them to look the information up for themselve, and maybe give them some resources to do such, yes.
You can't judge someone's opinion because it's relative to each person. You're confusing the knowledge that someone has acquired with the opinion of a child. Using factual, truthful information to acess a situation does not necessarily make it an opinion. Depending on how the information is processed by the persons in question the solution could be right or wrong. If the doctor specializes in foot or eye illnesses, and the child watched the Health channel for the past 5 years, and knows symtoms, and several ways to treat illnesses. The child would probably be more qualified to help you then the eye or foot doctor. If two doctors who have studied at the same school, in the same field. One was A students, and understood his craft, and the other a B student who lacked and partied abit. And you got an diagnosis from both one saying you need surgery (B student) one saying you don't (A student). Who's accessment do you value more? At that point you need to find out who is more credible, what is each doctor's motivation, and how said surgery may affect you later in life. Now taking your cousin's advise (who doesn't even go to the doctors, but was the closest relative with a car) about what doctor to listen to, that's an opinion. Which they have every right to, but you don't have to listen to because you are entitled to your own.
The writer's words: He may have intended BM to not be as powerful as Thor, and while he is writing him, he might not be for a long time. But that can change as the character evolves. That can also change if the character Thor himself is changed, by his writers. If Thor suddenly lost a lot of his powers, and was shown to be weaker than BM. Is the writer than going to change BM to fit his original intention, or keep him the same? Also if the creator believes NO one should be stronger than Thor, does that mean that there aren't people who already are? Does he decide to acknowledge Thor's fights with Juggernaut, Hulk, Destroyer, Thanos Etc. There is no way to tell that, but there are some people who will not acknowledge such things no matter how many times you show them these instances. And you can not debate with someone's belief, people have been trying to do that with religion for countless millennium it doesn't work. But if the person is open minded, that's a different story.
Are writer and creators great sources for maybe filling in blanks, or reading between the lines of their series, sure. Are they the definite answer to a debate over strength. No. That should be done with canon-comics, and based on Consistency, truth, and fact. Which could be in the form of an opinion, but may not always be.
You don't have to justify nothing if you don't want to, who said you did? People can call you unjustified though, and thats what I did. Turns out I was right, because you hate Thor. You can't justify your statement, your statement is born out of bias and prejudice.
We agree that context is important in how one answers a question.
No, thats not the only information we have. What's on panel. We have other comics, we have brains, we have the ability to identify who wrote and drew the comic, we have logic, we have fairness, we have interviews, and articles, and videos now, and podcasts. You don't have to find truth in comics either. Comics are for entertainment not for consistency or providing facts.
First show me when Stan's words have not been consistent with each other. That matters. How they are supposedly not consistent. hen again, you lol, go looking for truth we you can't find any. Is the only reason you read comics, to look for truths about strength levels? Then who is this judge who is saying what the comic writer told us, isn't true? Your whole paragraph is cut of at its knees there because your of in your own world you travelled to on the Interplanetary Flawed spaceship. IFs for short. lol. Taking what the comic shows, you take what it all shows. Don't cherry pick now. It goes back to opinions vs statements, all you need to say really, is that according to the books you have read Blue Marvel and Hulk are stronger than Thor, and if someone tries and disputes you, you give examples of what led you to hold your belief and think its objectively based in fact or truth.
You say I mistook you, then follow it by your own admission saying maybe you missed something? Why inform you you like to play devils advocate then? I want this debate over so I can concentrate on the Blue Marvel Respect thread lol
I ignored everything you said in the next paragraph, except for two things, The two creators were were talking about, again raised that Hulk at his angriest is equal there about (there about presumably by me) to Thor. Not at his base, not at his weakest. Then a firm no. There doesn't need to be a starting point for strength in comic. There isn't even one in real life for most people, every day might hold the promise of a new personal record bested, thats real life. Thor and hulk get to lives more days in there prime than real life people, and can lift most things there eyes fall across. Not to mention, just like real people, anger, motivation, and rest can cause mammoth increases in strength effectiveness. Not to mention, Thor and Hulk are physiologically more extreme than any real life human. Thor might require a warming up period of 1 year before he can start powering though strength feats with maximum effectiveness. What if Hulk isn't angry enough? Your theories and arguments fall on its face breaking its nose, lol
Out strength? What the hell does that even mean, please don't invent terms to justify poor arguments. This is another example of why how you gain your proof fails. Thor has fought Juggernaut once when he was so sick he couldn't stand, but I guess you ignore that right? Thor couldn't out power... sorry, out strength Juggernaut so lets use that as an example thats solid evidence that is contrary to what writers think? Even though Juggernaut has potential for unlimited strength to right? Or are you using the Thor and Juggernaut fight were Juggs was amped? Or the other time, where Thor cut his energy source? You do realize that Hulk has the potential for no limit to his strength, in the physical sense. Its another long and boring debate to whether he can actually get there, and another long boring debate on whether his anger has a limit, and another on Juggs and no limits, and Thor and limits as well.
Consistency lies in the details, not lack of understanding in how comics are written or produced or what writers mean with the comics, and their own comments. Now tell me about this clear contradiction that seems only apparent to yourself?
Why didn't you use the same example as you did here though, by saying Thor is more skilled than a character you hate even more than him, who isn't as skilled? Blackbolt or someone. Thor is more skilled than Blackbolt, but not Hulk, no one is more skilled than Hulk, oh wait, back to the topic lol
You can judge, and I just did. It being relative doesn't mean you can't judge it, what are you trying to sell man? Knowledge still flows out like an opinion, you can form an opinion, based on facts, and all that other jazz. Opinions, and facts and knowledge can all be the same thing, as well as exists individually. You can't, can't what. lol Thats that paragraph dealt with.
Then something tells me you lack the ability to understand what the writer was saying? Do you really honestly think that a writer when comparing conventional Marvel superheroes, would bring up occasional times Thor has struggled against villains? Really? If you want, I can spell out the long version for you, in what he probably meant to say, if he thought people would try and challenge him over the strength level of the very character he created.
Hurrah, we agree on the last thing you said, giving an opinion to a thread where a guy asks about a characters power level though, I think i might go with the guys who made the characters, and state clearly its there opinions, rather than the guy who starts saying he is stronger than everyone who isn't Hulk cause Hulks the strongest, because despite dozens of Marvel characters not having a limit to their strength and dozens more having no known limit, Hulk is just yeah, stronger than everyone, then we find out later he actually hates Thor, oh... but he has evidence that proves the writer is wrong, because you gotta go by the comics right? Especially the one that shows Thor struggling to stand, and then can't over power... i mean, over strength Juggernaut who happens to be a character Hulk can't either, funny that. but I digress, oh and I forget, presents his statements as that and not opinions, until later when he/she is called on them.
Then consistency and truth and facts are good, only problem is, according to you, occasional instances, become the benchmarks for facts, when you should know, you can't get facts when you keep changing the variables. You get flawed results. So no truth or facts, just a dodgy man in a lab coat doctoring results in order to get a bigger research grant.
I'm not going to get into a debate over what makes up the Hulk wrong thread for that" @blacharrt: hulk is not a energy being hes a gamma battery the works of emotion "
@SC: simply put, because at the point when you say you start ignoring what is written, and when you start adding words like (I presume) the discussion is over. So I'll end it with this. You believe what writers say to be true, that is your perception of what is real, regardless if the medium we use to judge what is true and not true in comic books. If you believe what they say to be true, it is true, but that is only relative to you. That may not true for other people.
If i am basing strength Hulk, Thor, BM, Godzilla on canon comic books, and the discussion is about comic books, then the point is valid. If you are disputing that then you actually need to give reason and proof as to why it's not valid in such an argument. And someone's opinion writer, creator, god himself on the matter, has to be clarified as to why this person has drawn this conclusion just as I have drawn mind. Which I asked you. If they haven't given you one, what are they basing this information on? If they are basing it on videos, plays, games, podcast, or personal feeling. That is not the media we base comic book truth on, regardless of what they may think or intend to be true.
So if you want to prove that Thor is strongest, then feel free to provide some evidence to that effect, because quotes alone won't prove your argument. And Since that is what you are implying I'm curious to see what you will show in your defense.
its ok i dont wanna debate i was just saying how hulks powers work theyve practically explained most of it already, hes a gamma battery (its what fuels his powers similiar to superman) though hulk can also generate it, than he transforms off adreniline which reacts to his emotions though i heard theres been instances where hes changed without it meaning he could eventually learn to control it. At the end of the world war hulk arc showed him generating massive amounts of gamma radiation thanks to him being at his upmost angriest which is the greatest example of his gamma powers to date im pretty sure, hes also touched energy so he also has limited gamma radiation powers (touching energy and generating gamma radiation). Now rulk has a similiar ability to generate gamma radiation though his is different. This also means that if hulks exposed to more gamma radiaiton he can get even stronger so say world went nuclear war hed grow far more powerful as seen in some alternate earths similiar to superman sundipping.
What writer say are true, but true in what way? This sounds like your earlier lack of understanding, so making up an argument born out of semantics. The english word for blue is blue, not every opinion or truth is relative.
More needless posturing. Hey if the truth is truth, then the lies are lies, but how do we know the truth is the truth? I ask you to think about that? Right? Yeah? See what I did there?
I dispute your objectivity and already demonstrated why and how.
I clarified the writers opinion and merely held it up next to yours.
lol, truth is the truth, there are no special mediums and people who decide what is true or not. Your still of the opinion that you can gain truths about strength, by characters fighting each other. You used an extremely flawed argument with your Thor Juggernaut example. You think that equates to truth? Its probably more truthful that your just bias and got caught out, but feel that you must always have the last word. I bet because Hulk punched Thor one time, its the truth he is stronger than him huh? Thats not how strength works. Thats how opinions work.
Then your biggest flaw, I am trying to prove that Thor is the strongest? Even like in my second or third post, I made clear that I am not here to prove anything about whose strongest, then thats what I am implying even though i have stated its not? It should be clear that I am just here to prove the guy who has written every feat and created a character, disagrees with you, you can either be okay with that? Writers have opinions that disagree with mine all the time, or if you want, you can try to prove why your opinion has more validity than the guys who made these characters. If you want, i don't care, like I said, people will justify racism, killing, murder, stealing, cheating, anything to enforce their opinions on others as fact.
Not everything is an opinion, one day you may realize that.
around Hyperion and sentry sp probabyl just below Thor
" @SC: flawed, everyone is flawed. I've stated that several times Clearly you missed something in what i was actually saying if that's all you got out of everything I wrote. You asked a question, is the opinion of the writer/ creator as valid if not more so than my own. (paraphrasing) I stated my opinion as did others in this thread, and gave reason for that opinion. My last response i answered that question about the writer/creator. Other than that it's nothing more to say on the subject. Clearly you did have a point to prove otherwise you wouldn't have bothered in attempting to point out supposed flaws, in my logic. Not everything is an opinion, one day you may realize that. "
Depends, relative to what? No I have caught you each time I believe, like I said, your just incredibly defensive, and when something you say is questioned, you back it up with a very vague counter reason that actually has nothing to do with what your originally wrote. I'll explain below with what you said about flawed, and what I did specifically as opposed to generally. So when you state something vague and generalized, I ignore it, and actually focus on the actual specific things you state which ignore your own ambiguous and even contradictory remarks.
If your trying to state what my reason for arguing or my reason for disagreeing with is because - and then you give me reason thats false, and from there you try disagreeing with me, your argument is flawed. If you correctly attribute my arguments and motivations as you believe, and then give an argument against those, then no, it is not flawed. So why do you bring up such a vague comment that everyone is flawed?
If I started arguing with you, as if I thought you were a racist, my argument would be flawed. If I thought you were biased I might be right.
You say there is nothing to say, yet you still speak?
Then again, you presume far too much, which again suggests defensiveness, "Clearly" "clearly" no, you mean clearly to you. It probably would be clearly to you yet false, you have demonstrated bias, and defensiveness in your replies. "Clearly" the aliens have taken over the government, thats why I am sending this reply via the underground in my nuclear sub bunker.
Everything can be an opinion, and where did I say everything was? One day you may realize not to make strawman arguments. Also one day you might realize stealing candy from children and punching them in the knees is a bad thing and very mean. Or maybe you do already realize that, but I am just incredibly defensive and so will just reply to your posts and say vague things loosely related to the topic, BECAUSE HOW DARE someone apply some criticism to my opinion, when my opinion is the truth and law and... oh wait. lol
I have enjoyed this discussion with you, I am still really curious about your claim that what happens on panel contradicts what writers say, and that supposedly these panels give us the truth, no matter how vague they usually are. Plus i respect you and like arguing with you lol, So I have PLENTY more to say, I see a reply here and my eyes lit up like a kid on christmas morning. If you have nothing else to say, then don't feel you have to write nothing disguised as something. Then why also say there is nothing more to say, then yet still say stuff.
And I hold firm to this statement:
@Vitality said:
Exactly he is stronger than thor, No one could be stronger than the Hulk but he would be pretty damn close" @Vermillo said:
No...you didn't read right. ""So if I read right...He would be the black version of the Sentry without the mental problems. "
Although the first part may be pure opinion even based on possible bias, the second part is true. I explained the reasoning for comparing one character with another character even if you have bias towards said character, and the reasoning for why hulks statement is true, based on comics set parameters for his strength.
Feel free to hold firm in your statement , he both can and isn't the black version of Sentry, I can't pretend to know what the other poster meant, what he reads of the comic is what he reads of the comic, regardless of intent. The first part is opinion, its generally would be, since these things are generally not meant to be facts, fictional universe you see. Constantly changing, multiple contexts. Second part is also therefore relative. How you interpret and define what and how comics set parameters differing. What's the largest Hulk has actually lifted, compared to potentially, and practically possible. I have no great bias here, I have the ability to discern opinion from fact. You may have attempted to try explaining how you try to justify yourself, my critiquing revealed flaws. Thats okay, you had the much harder job of trying to find truth where there is none. Finding flaws is an easy thing to do.
" @blacharrt: My PM box is always open (why is that awkward to say lol) Feel free to hold firm in your statement , he both can and isn't the black version of Sentry, I can't pretend to know what the other poster meant, what he reads of the comic is what he reads of the comic, regardless of intent. The first part is opinion, its generally would be, since these things are generally not meant to be facts, fictional universe you see. Constantly changing, multiple contexts. Second part is also therefore relative. How you interpret and define what and how comics set parameters differing. What's the largest Hulk has actually lifted, compared to potentially, and practically possible. I have no great bias here, I have the ability to discern opinion from fact. You may have attempted to try explaining how you try to justify yourself, my critiquing revealed flaws. Thats okay, you had the much harder job of trying to find truth where there is none. Finding flaws is an easy thing to do. "You never stop do you? As i stated before, i don't justify anything. This whole conversation is based on a fictional universe, which would makes evidence from said fictional universe very valid regardless of any changes, or context. You would need to explain how said changes or context would affect, the argument at hand. And you say I generalize. The relative comment is your opinion, which isn't based on said fictional universe which the conversation is based on, and how I determine that is as I stated before, in panel on several occassion it is stated that his strength is limitless, which would make the possibility someone being stronger them him impossible. I gave you two examples of when that was stated and by who it was said, i guess you would call that justifying or being defensive.
You discern opinion and fact based on your own set parameters of what fits those categories.. If you stated (which you have) that a person can't because find fact or truth in this conversation is based on a fictional world, just opinion. You would be wrong, This world holds it's own facts, and truths, flaws, consistency, and opinions. Where you say it's impossible to discern information such as knowing who the strongest is. Refer to said world of marvel, and look at canon events and you can find the answer you seek.
Your last statement is true, it is much easier to find flaws then truth, however most truths are relatives very few are absolute. This conversation has been more philosophical than anything else. Could you answer this question for me. What comics do you read?
" @SC said:" @blacharrt: My PM box is always open (why is that awkward to say lol) Feel free to hold firm in your statement , he both can and isn't the black version of Sentry, I can't pretend to know what the other poster meant, what he reads of the comic is what he reads of the comic, regardless of intent. The first part is opinion, its generally would be, since these things are generally not meant to be facts, fictional universe you see. Constantly changing, multiple contexts. Second part is also therefore relative. How you interpret and define what and how comics set parameters differing. What's the largest Hulk has actually lifted, compared to potentially, and practically possible. I have no great bias here, I have the ability to discern opinion from fact. You may have attempted to try explaining how you try to justify yourself, my critiquing revealed flaws. Thats okay, you had the much harder job of trying to find truth where there is none. Finding flaws is an easy thing to do. "You never stop do you? As i stated before, i don't justify anything. This whole conversation is based on a fictional universe, which would makes evidence from said fictional universe very valid regardless of any changes, or context. You would need to explain how said changes or context would affect, the argument at hand. And you say I generalize. The relative comment is your opinion, which isn't based on said fictional universe which the conversation is based on, and how I determine that is as I stated before, in panel on several occassion it is stated that his strength is limitless, which would make the possibility someone being stronger them him impossible. I gave you two examples of when that was stated and by who it was said, i guess you would call that justifying or being defensive. You discern opinion and fact based on your own set parameters of what fits those categories.. If you stated (which you have) that a person can't because find fact or truth in this conversation is based on a fictional world, just opinion. You would be wrong, This world holds it's own facts, and truths, flaws, consistency, and opinions. Where you say it's impossible to discern information such as knowing who the strongest is. Refer to said world of marvel, and look at canon events and you can find the answer you seek. Your last statement is true, it is much easier to find flaws then truth, however most truths are relatives very few are absolute. This conversation has been more philosophical than anything else. Could you answer this question for me. What comics do you read? "
Not if I have a point I wish to make, and am having fun. Do you ever stop? You keep repeating yourself too lol. Who said you need to justify something? You don't, just like if I wish to, I can find error in your statements and point them out. Fictional universe, if one writer says something, it doesn't mean another writer can't say the opposite. The relative comment isn't my opinion., Its a statement of objectivity. Give me an example of something in comics, not having the potential to be relative, if not already? I won't tough the rest of your post, because you say, peace is good, killing is bad, the world is round, people thought it was flat. You just talk talk talk without any relevance. You also misunderstand what I have said, grossly. You can find truth and facts in comics, the examples you haven given of finding truth though, are laughable. If Hulk eats a cake, its the truth he is stronger... uh, not quite. The fact there is that Hulk ate a cake. Then again, that might not be right either, it could be a Pizza, hulk refers to as a cake. Or ice cream shaped like a cake.
I read all comics. lol, no. Usually. I help out at a comic books store, so I can usually read almost every Marvel or DC comic out in a week, but I buy most of my favorites, X-Men, Hulk, Cosmic, Thor, Birds of Prey, Secret Six, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, some Avatar stuff, Vertigo stiff, Avengers, etc
Of course its easier to point out flaws, thats why I don't run around telling people in threads for info, that my favorite characters are more powerful than my not favorites, because I just like them more... oh wait... sorry, because the "truth" in comics, tell me that they are... yeah... that'll show em. lol Who cares what the guys who created them know, what would they know about the characters they have had in their head since they were 12, and created, and wrote every issue of and in. Writers smiters, my opinion is based on facts and truths. Huh Huh huh. lol
you know through extensive research I have found that Thor and the Asgardians are actually extradimensional humanoids with magical and physically strong properties. Sure they can be viewed as gods to people who are less durable and cannot create lightening from a hammer and they can also be viewed as aliens because they live on a planetoid from an alternate dimension. If They were visiting earth from their dimension say 2000 years ago, the more primitive inhabitance of earth would easily mistake them for gods. However they are not immortal and thier power is governed by the rules of their respective principles and origins. Seeing as though in most mythology peagon gods are depicted as immortal and unkillable unless forgotten by their followers of their religion, it's feasible to believe Thor though very powerful is just not as powerful as some want him to be. But that's just my opinion with a dash of fact!
Stan Lee says Thor should be more powerful. The creator of Blue Marvel (and scriptwriter for the Underworld series of films, in which he also acts) Kevin Grievoux says Thor should be the most powerful in all of Marveldom. Thor pretty much IS the most powerful.
I only just heard about the Blue Marvel but I like him a lot already. Still, power is only once aspect, and does not make a character likeable at all, it's all about their story and personality. For example, no way I'd prefer Sentry over Iron Fist just because he's more powerful.
yeah i would like to learn more about blue marvel he is interesting character and hope he gets more exposure in comicbooks & the media.
i also find it interesting because i want know how his powers work and what are the limit to his powers.
@Vitality said:He Has Unlimited anti Matter Energy Making him the Strongest Even Easily Defeated Red Hulk with a Single Punch so i am Sure He Can Defeat Hulk" @Vermillo said:Exactly he is stronger than thor, No one could be stronger than the Hulk but he would be pretty damn close"So if I read right...He would be the black version of the Sentry without the mental problems. "No...you didn't read right. "
@SC: What is Wrong with You People Thor and Hulk are Weak PS Thor is NOT IMMORATAL Blue Marvel Sentry many many other are Stronger. Seriously get information about it then write
Waaah waaah *hissy fit, hissy fit* MY Milk, my milk is spilled and I am one angry lil upset dude! What is wrong with you? This is NOT full cream milk, its LITE! lol Dude, chill.
Seriously go troll somewhere else, or if your actually genuine try and not get to get preachy, actually sit down and talk to other people properly. Its okay to disagree with people, if you wish to educate people or make people aware of your opinion? You won't do it how you just did.
I don't know you, still, I can respect you, even if you come off a bit angry, and me, well this is me expressing the evidence that helps me form MY opinion. You don't have to agree, but I won't change my opinion just because your upset. Here is the writer talking about the characters again.
"Now, the comment I made at San Diego Comic Con I was being purposely funny, but I was dead serious in terms of not only how I see the Blue Marvel, and how I see Thor. My personal opinion is that NO Marvel character should be stronger than Thor. The Hulk should be able to equal him if he gets mad enough, but that's about it. And as a god, Thor SHOULD be stronger that ANY mortal. Even a SUPER-mortal. If Thor's not stronger, what's the point of him being immortal? He's just a strong loudmouth with a hammer who gets he's butt whupped.
So, what I'm trying to do with Adam is have him sit down at the table with the likes of Thor, Hulk, Sentry, Wonder Man, Hercules, Superman, Captain Marvel, J'onn J'onzz, Mon'El, Supreme, Mr. Majestic, Hyperion, etc., but he is NOT all-powerful. It's just that NOW, we have a black man who is up there at this elite level of heavy-weights as well. Just to tease you guys, you want to see how powerful he is? Wait until you see issue 5 and 6. Judge for yourselves.
Any more questions, just let a brother know.
KG"
I haven't seen enough of the Blue Marvel to know precisely how strong he is, but at the very least his strength(being able to lift/press in excess of 100 tons) puts him pretty close to the Hulk's class and rivals that of Thor or Hercules. On another issue, why DID President Kennedy ask BM to retire when his racial heritage was known( True, the idea of a black superhero may have been too much for some to stomach back in 1962- the year of my own birth incidentally- and it's no secret that other black superheroes- the Black Panther, the Falcon, Storm of the X-Men, would pop up in the years ahead without the government asking them to conceal their race)? And another thing- is BM immortal?-he seems not to have aged by so much a day since he was forced into retirement?
Terry
This reply really doesn't answer my question_ if BM can lift and carry a ship weighing abour 10,000 tons(whereas Hulk, Thor, Hercules, Wonder Man et al can "only" lift 100 tons), doesn' t this make him stronger than all of them?
Terry
@blacharrt said:
Exactly he is stronger than thor, No one could be stronger than the Hulk but he would be pretty damn close
Thor is stronger than Hulk.
@blacharrt said:
Here a general question to everyone here. Where do you guys think Blue Marvel falls in the realm of African American superheroes, is he among the strongest on that list?
Honestly I think Milestone/DC Comics Icon is the stronger of the two. Generally speaking since DC's characters operate at a higher level than Marvel's heroes do, and the fact when Icon fought Superman, they stalemated each other. DC will very rarely allow someone to stalemate Supes when he's actually trying to fight, making Icon one of the strongest heroes in DC and comics cause of that. I'm sure Blue Marvel is very powerful as well, but from what I've seen/read on him, he's still got more to prove to me.
@Thorion88 said:
@PowerHerc said:
He's in Marvel's top tier along with:
Hulk, Sentry, Hercules, Gladiator, Juggernaut, Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Gilgamesh, Hyperion, Red Hulk and Silver Surfer.
Shouldn't Wonder Man also be on that list?
He's really close to the top level but I'd put Wonder Man in a category slightly below these guys.
I believe Thor and Blue Marvel are close to the same level
but it isn't really good to compare them because their powers operate differently. Marvel is probably faster than Thor and he can use antimatter energies but Thor has the hammer, and the hammer has ridiculous feats, some of the most crazy hammer feats happening during the silverage
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