T'Challa Black Panther Plus (spoilers)

#1 Edited by Dernman (14774 posts) - - Show Bio

So in the latest issue of Fantastic Four Black Panther gives up a chance to be the King of Wakanda and it's Black Panther.  Instead he becomes the king of Necropolis and it's Black Panther. He then gains all the strength and knowledge of the past kings. He is also now bonded to Reed Richards and their fates are intertwined till death and beyond. So how strong is BP now? Is he just back to normal BP levels or does he really have the strength of all the Black Panthers? How strong would all the BPs even make him. Certainly it should be way above peak human levels and into the superhuman range.  If that is true that would take some getting used to. Doesn't  this now kinda make him one of the rulers of a death realm. Like Pluto and his Elysion Fields even if it's on a much smaller scale. He's kinda closer to being a god then his wife is. :p  (Calm down storm fans I'm only joking). I also wonder what this connection that BP and Reed now have.  
Heh It almost sounded like they got married.  :p

#2 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol...haha. No more Street! Remember who was saying it :). Not sure how strong, but I think they will keep it vague. My suggestions was Gorgon level, but I also made the point to Brevoort about T'challa and the other MU kings..and he was the only one who wasn't powerful and that they also possessed everything he had on some level. In AvX he shrugged off a blast from Namor, who wanted to kill him and said as much!

#3 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12586 posts) - - Show Bio

F^{+\£ yeas.i have to this up.

#4 Posted by _slim_ (13058 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like the sound of this... but it should be interesting.

#5 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

.................................I'm glad to see that Black Panther and Storm are well on there way to becoming one of THE most powerful couples in the Marvel universe...I was hoping for great things with BP...but I NEVER expected this.

#6 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Mage I did. :) that was the point I was trying to make in that Storm thread, but you know-- some people don't like to listen. Joke threads--joke response. Part of it is the mind set of "Street" and the "PIS" people,..we should thank them-- they made the arguement for this easy. I have been lobbying Marvel for this for a while. And Liss and Rosemann, Maberry, Brevoort, Hudlin. T'challa simply does not fit the street level milieu--and since some fans would not let it go--this was the likely result. And my debate with Vance was just a perfect example of that.

#7 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

i have to check this out ! what issue is this of ff ? @ dernman

#8 Posted by Twentyfive (2843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Umbraa said:

Mage I did. :) that was the point I was trying to make in that Storm thread, but you know-- some people don't like to listen. Joke threads--joke response. Part of it is the mind set of "Street" and the "PIS" people,..we should thank them-- they made the arguement for this easy. I have been lobbying Marvel for this for a while. And Liss and Rosemann, Maberry, Brevoort, Hudlin. T'challa simply does not fit the street level milieu--and since some fans would not let it go--this was the likely result. And my debate with Vance was just a perfect example of that.

Same thing happened to me. Shame on me too, because it started to get personal, and I should've ducked out before then.

Putting the past behind me, I can't wait to pick that issue up, and I am hoping that Hickman does a Panther series. PLEASE HICKMAN! PLEASE!!!!!

#9 Edited by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

So, he's no longer depowered.... hmmmm....

#10 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

Why can't he just be the king of Wakanda again....?

#11 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Static He's pretty much on another level now, totally removed from being classed as "street"... It's pretty much Hickman style, which isn't going to be street level. In AvX he took a blast from Namor, who was trying to kill him and was Un-phased. We might not get Vibranium for a while though....he doesn't fit into a box, and I guess since some always tried--now they can't fit him into that box.

#12 Posted by Dernman (14774 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mega_spidey01: Fantastic Four 608 
@Static Shock:   

Why can't he just be the king of Wakanda again....? 


That was addressed in the addressed in the issue. For him to be king something has to happen to his sister. He had choice. Also something bad is coming after AvX which they referenced and only with him being what he is now can he be Wakanda's savior.
#13 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Same 25, I was just trying to drop some jewels. The issue is a lot of them X-board storm fan, bash and trash T'challa and that kills there entire point. A group of posters on CBR and HEF, basically copied what the spider-girl fans did, but not on saving the book...but issues with the character. Marvel is pretty cool, if you have a sound arguement. Plus, the whole MWF thing really, really helped. I remember writing Mr. Liss and passing on Priest website to him, then explaining to him why T'challa should be peak human without the herb and they put it in the book. If you look at his FB page it's there.

#14 Posted by Dernman (14774 posts) - - Show Bio
@Umbraa: MWF?
#15 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Umbraa said:

Static He's pretty much on another level now, totally removed from being classed as "street"... It's pretty much Hickman style, which isn't going to be street level. In AvX he took a blast from Namor, who was trying to kill him and was Un-phased. We might not get Vibranium for a while though....he doesn't fit into a box, and I guess since some always tried--now they can't fit him into that box.

The thing is, I preferred him being street-level. -_-

@Umbraa said:

I remember writing Mr. Liss and passing on Priest website to him, then explaining to him why T'challa should be peak human without the herb and they put it in the book. If you look at his FB page it's there.

What did you say to Liss that made him think classing T'Challa as peak-human was okay?

#16 Posted by _slim_ (13058 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@Umbraa: MWF?

Man Without Fear.

#17 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought he was getting killed off.

What happened to that whole him getting stabbed and his final words being "avenge" or was that a false spoiler.

#18 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

He's King of Kings. King of the Dead and all BP's, which explains why he says he shares the Panther legacy with Shuri in Defenders, and why the is a head of state in AvX.

#19 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

Why can't he just be the king of Wakanda again....?

Did you read it? .................I feel like saying things, but I'm not sure if I can say it until you've read it.........

@Umbraa said:

Mage I did. :) that was the point I was trying to make in that Storm thread, but you know-- some people don't like to listen. Joke threads--joke response. Part of it is the mind set of "Street" and the "PIS" people,..we should thank them-- they made the arguement for this easy. I have been lobbying Marvel for this for a while. And Liss and Rosemann, Maberry, Brevoort, Hudlin. T'challa simply does not fit the street level milieu--and since some fans would not let it go--this was the likely result. And my debate with Vance was just a perfect example of that.

LOL I'm glad your hard work paid off :)

#20 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz said:

I thought he was getting killed off.

What happened to that whole him getting stabbed and his final words being "avenge" or was that a false spoiler.

That was in Defenders. I think that's just a plot point. He'll be back toward the end of that arc, if anything.

@Dernman said:

That was addressed in the addressed in the issue. For him to be king something has to happen to his sister. He had choice. Also something bad is coming after AvX which they referenced and only with him being what he is now can he be Wakanda's savior.

Sounds legit. It's just that I'm getting tired of all of the changes that T'Challa has been through...

#21 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

@White Mage said:

Did you read it? .................I feel like saying things, but I'm not sure if I can say it until you've read it.........

I was just asking why he couldn't just go back to normal.

#22 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@White Mage said:

Did you read it? .................I feel like saying things, but I'm not sure if I can say it until you've read it.........

I was just asking why he couldn't just go back to normal.

Nevermind, the thread creator already had (SPOILERS) in the title, so I'm safe.lol

I don't think it would've been possible for them to fully help him out of his "self-discovery" phase, WITHOUT giving him the Buffy treatment.

#23 Edited by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

@White Mage said:

Nevermind, the thread creator already had (SPOILERS) in the title, so I'm safe.lol

I don't think it would've been possible for them to fully help him out of his "self-discovery" phase, WITHOUT giving him the Buffy treatment.

-_-

The upgrade sounds nice. But, it's as if they don't know what to do with him.

#24 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@White Mage said:

Nevermind, the thread creator already had (SPOILERS) in the title, so I'm safe.lol

I don't think it would've been possible for them to fully help him out of his "self-discovery" phase, WITHOUT giving him the Buffy treatment.

-_-

The upgrade sounds nice. But, it's as if they don't know what to do with him.

I genuinely believe that this was the only way that they could move him forward....most of his depression was focused around not having any powers, and not being a king anymore.........He never really did get his "Depowered Storm" moment...

#25 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32878 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like the sound of any of this.....

#26 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

I don't like the sound of any of this.....

It's not nearly as overpowered as it sounds.

#27 Posted by tcJackal (26 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes finally T'challa got his powers back and more. I was not feeling mwf panther(poor man's batman) at all, only bought issues up until the end of the arc featuring Storm. I was hoping both Storm and Bp were going to be on the roster of unchanny avengers but it seems marvel once again miss the opportiunity.

#28 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

I love it. I don't think it's "over-powered" --- he's just Batman 1 million :) or the good version of Doom, which a a view point a few writers held ( Liss, Maberry and Hudlin).

#29 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

I want those two to share an ongoing. Both names in the title equal time to shine and a phenomenal creative team. Then I want them on seperate teams so they can have interactions outside of each other and people who hate the marriage can ignore it.

#30 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static, long story-- but going over his entire history, comparisons with other characters, the fact that you had characters who were nearly the same in function without the HSH. T'challa, being trained from birth would be similar physically to Batman--Bervoort and Maberry both classed T'challa as enhanced/above-peak with the Herb--but I think the haters made the biggest difference. :)

#31 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Umbraa said:

@Static, long story-- but going over his entire history, comparisons with other characters, the fact that you had characters who were nearly the same in function without the HSH. T'challa, being trained from birth would be similar physically to Batman--Bervoort and Maberry both classed T'challa as enhanced/above-peak with the Herb--but I think the haters made the biggest difference. :)

Makes sense. Taking away his enhancements would only leave him at peak-human, since having them put him a notch or so above that.

Good move. :)

#32 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

I just picked up the issue. After reading it, it all makes sense now. I just wonder where Marvel is going to take this.

#33 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

I just picked up the issue. After reading it, it all makes sense now. I just wonder where Marvel is going to take this.

He's totally the "Black Buffy" now....except I will actually enjoy reading his comic.

#34 Posted by windcaster (227 posts) - - Show Bio

 I'm all for character development but I got to say I have mix feelings about his new power levels. During AVX couldn't Namor just have been holding back when he blasted T'challa? I think he loves and respects Cap and T'challa so I could understand if he was not using deadly force despite what he said during the issue. It didn't occur to me after reading the issue that he could have been upgraded to superhuman levels. That's....  very  provocative.

#35 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah, he said he wanted to kill him. Namor wanted T'challa bad, it seems. He said nothing about the girl. It's clearly stated that he wants to kill him. T'challa says the same, twice. http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg225/scaled.php?server=225&filename;=tumblrm7dfa0szik1rw6hzp.png&res;=landing

#36 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Blood that's highly possible. Hickman has a secret title besides New Avengers and the Double Ship-Avengers. My guess is it's either a current Shield book staring Nick Jr. (supporting the Avengers), GoTG or Storm and BP. Though it might be totally new.

#37 Edited by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

So this SHOULD mean that T'Challa is not the 8th smartest guy in Marvel anymore but an absolute super genius. Awesome

T'Challa should not be superstrong (AvX8 aside I'm Namor took on red Hulk and THor so I'm not tripping about T'Challas new found strength not being shown).

But the Panther Tribe goes back how many thousands of years? So if T'Challa has the combined Strength and Brilliance of every Panther tha has ever lived he should be immensely strong.

I (unfortunately) cant see how some future writer won't undo this or just ignore it

I loved this BP goodness today.

#38 Edited by Skaddix (3112 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

I just picked up the issue. After reading it, it all makes sense now. I just wonder where Marvel is going to take this.

In Hickman, We Trust.

@ Umbraa

Pretty sure Bendis has GOTG. Might be a new SHIELD although I am thinking SHIELD will just take over Secret Avengers. Not sure who will right that but its probably whoever is writing him in the Point One. Black Panther & Storm would be awesome though.

#39 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mykhael said:

So this SHOULD mean that T'Challa is not the 8th smartest guy in Marvel anymore but an absolute super genius. Awesome

T'Challa should not be superstrong (AvX8 aside I'm Namor took on red Hulk and THor so I'm not tripping about T'Challas new found strength not being shown).

But the Panther Tribe goes back how many thousands of years? So if T'Challa has the combined Strength and Brilliance of every Panther tha has ever lived he should be immensely strong.

I (unfortunately) cant see how some future writer won't undo this or just ignore it

I loved this BP goodness today.

I wouldn't say that the upgrade would make T'Challa a super-genius. He was the smartest Black Panther of them all; all of them weren't as highly-intelligent as he was.

#40 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome

#41 Edited by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@Mykhael said:

So this SHOULD mean that T'Challa is not the 8th smartest guy in Marvel anymore but an absolute super genius. Awesome

T'Challa should not be superstrong (AvX8 aside I'm Namor took on red Hulk and THor so I'm not tripping about T'Challas new found strength not being shown).

But the Panther Tribe goes back how many thousands of years? So if T'Challa has the combined Strength and Brilliance of every Panther tha has ever lived he should be immensely strong.

I (unfortunately) cant see how some future writer won't undo this or just ignore it

I loved this BP goodness today.

I wouldn't say that the upgrade would make T'Challa a super-genius. He was the smartest Black Panther of them all; all of them weren't as highly-intelligent as he was.

Yes, but when you have the combined power of potentially thousands of people his already brilliant mind must be magnified.

He's a genius (we really don't know if he's the smartest BP ever/ let me know if that's ever stated cause I havent read that) but it's not like the previous Panthers had an IQ below 50, these had to be smart guys.

So I'd at this point, he should be a superagencies

#42 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it will give him more mystical knowledge. skill wise fighting also, would be off charts. This is perfectly in line with Black Bolt, who had a massive power creep to 100 toner,, Namor who has had them (70 tons in water to incalculable in water) and Doom...who is just Doom and his continuous upgrades, Sultan Magnus..these are T'challa's peers.

#43 Posted by Skaddix (3112 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm Sultan Magus. Honestly, might not be a bad idea for T'challa to sign a treaty with Sultan Magus. A Pan Africa Alliance since Sultan's new territory is between Egypt and Libya. Especially since he is against Namor and Doom. Black Bolt is kinda neutral in all this.

#44 Posted by God_Spawn (37372 posts) - - Show Bio

Guess he won't die anymore lol.

Moderator
#45 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

Guess he won't die anymore lol.

I know and I was so sure about it. I guess Emma and Scott are back on the table, I've gone ahead and taken Namor off. My new list, Iron Fist, Cyclops, Emma Frost, Rulk, and Hope.

#46 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Professor X should be on the list too.

#47 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah Namor is screwed with T'challa. But I agree, he should sign a treaty with Magnus..or Shuri should. Black Bolt has the Kree, lol. I'm also wondering if the color of Ironman new suit is connected to T'challa..maybe Stark is on his team/squad if he gets one..they all. Wear black and gold?

#48 Edited by God_Spawn (37372 posts) - - Show Bio

@Umbraa said:

Professor X should be on the list too.

With what happened in AvX 8, yeah, I can see that, though I think an Avenger is probably going to die but considering how deep X is Marvel mythos and superhero relations, I can see a funeral with both sides attending in his honor.

@Blood1991: I'm still pretty positive Em nor Cykes will die. Rulk, Hope and IF are still tops IMO too though.

Moderator
#49 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@Umbraa said:

Professor X should be on the list too.

With what happened in AvX 8, yeah, I can see that, though I think an Avenger is probably going to die but considering how deep X is Marvel mythos and superhero relations, I can see a funeral with both sides attending in his honor.

@Blood1991: I'm still pretty positive Em nor Cykes will die. Rulk, Hope and IF are still tops IMO too though.

I almost see Emma becoming the new host of the Phoenix "worst fate in comics" the real PF not split. I see her becoming power hungry and plotting to take th power for herself. I hope I'm wrong, but I just got this nagging feeling during issue 8.

I should add Professor X I could see Marvel killing him I think it would be a crappy way to do things being he hasn't been doing anything before now, but it would be a reason for Scott to change his direction

#50 Posted by God_Spawn (37372 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991:

Maybe as she is corrupted right now, but once she gets her head together and the thing out of her.

I just don't see Chuck that relevant anymore and even if he isn't relevant he is still and will always be a major character in the MU just on what he has done alone. Him dying would be a perfect reason for Scott to change his ways.

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