How do you feel about T'Challa running the New Avengers?

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#1 Posted by Rell127 (291 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's about time Marvel actually lets him run a Avenger team. I have always felt he should have been in the Secret Avengers and ran that team but this is a interesting team from what they have said.

Do you think T'Challa can do it?

Do you feel it's a bit to much for the character?

Also im curious how much of the upgrade of his skills and powers will we see during the New Avengers.

#2 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think he's running them I think they are just based in Wakanda, plus the members are the Illuminati, and Namor is one. I'm not 100% sure about this info though!

#3 Posted by PassionFlower (957 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see anyone "running" this group of characters but him being a central character makes perfect sense. He is tailor made for Hickman and there is a lot of drama to be mined especially coming after the devastation not to mention it's about time an Avengers team had a HQ outside the US. Besides if Cage could head a team certainly T'Challa is overly qualified.

#4 Posted by Loki9876 (2993 posts) - - Show Bio

I love it finally the black panther gets some credit.

#5 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

I don't think he's running them I think they are just based in Wakanda, plus the members are the Illuminati, and Namor is one. I'm not 100% sure about this info though!

He's leading the team. Jock confirmed this last week when talked about the title.

Quote

Nrama: The Black Panther seems to play prominently in your covers. Was this a choice dictated by Jonathan and [editor] Tom Brevoort for a story reason, or did you just wind up gravitating towards him yourself?
Jock: Black Panther is leading the team, so it was a natural choice for him to be at the forefront of the image. I had an earlier version where Iron Man was front-and-center, but it was rightly pointed out that might be confusing. So it's essentially a story-led decision, making it clear what the dynamics of our new team are.

Quote

Nrama: On two of the covers we’ve seen the characters you can make out seem to be facing forward, while the Black Panther seems to be turning his head looking toward the reader? Do we see that correctly?
Jock: Yes. Design wise, I wanted to show Black Panther as the leader, so having him stand 'against the flow' was one way of doing this. I love using subtle design ideas like that, things that you might not take in directly, but you'll sense in the design

Namor has nothing to do with it...he either follows like he is told or gets laid down :) hahaha.

#6 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

About damn time.

#7 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rell127 said:

Do you think T'Challa can do it?

Sure, he's one of the best leaders in MU easily.

Do you feel it's a bit to much for the character?

Nope, it's perfect and long over due.

Also im curious how much of the upgrade of his skills and powers will we see during the New Avengers.

I was told that it's what it was said in F4 608.

#8 Posted by Dernman (14726 posts) - - Show Bio

At this point I don't care. I'll make up my mind after I see it played out. Looking foword to Namor and Black Panther meeting though.

#9 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6007 posts) - - Show Bio

Love TChalla I would like to see him in more prominent role

#10 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar said:

About damn time.

this

#11 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

Tchalla is the best choice. He is less extreme in his nature than Namor, and Iron Man, can speak unlike Black Bolt, and Beast simply isn't a leader. I look forward to seeing how he handles the responsibility of leading this powerful group.

#12 Posted by Genki_Sudo (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Mixed bag, happy for him but knowing Namor is there

#13 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991 said:

Tchalla is the best choice. He is less extreme in his nature than Namor, and Iron Man, can speak unlike Black Bolt, and Beast simply isn't a leader. I look forward to seeing how he handles the responsibility of leading this powerful group.

Cap is also on the team. So that's a big statement.

#14 Edited by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio

When you say running the "New Avengers" do you mean as in the team "New Avengers" or do you mean the new "Avengers"? New Avengers is still going to be a book during Marvel NOW? Who else is on the roster?

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#15 Posted by Dernman (14726 posts) - - Show Bio
@Umbraa said:

@Blood1991 said:

Tchalla is the best choice. He is less extreme in his nature than Namor, and Iron Man, can speak unlike Black Bolt, and Beast simply isn't a leader. I look forward to seeing how he handles the responsibility of leading this powerful group.

Cap is also on the team. So that's a big statement.

Yeah but New Avengers is going to be very Illuminati type of thing. That's more BP style.
#16 Edited by Dernman (14726 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

When you say running the "New Avengers" do you mean as in the team "New Avengers" or do you mean the new "Avengers"? New Avengers is still going to be a book during Marvel NOW? Who else is on the roster?

ROSTER: Captain America, Iron Man, Doctor Strange, Black Bolt, Namor, Black Panther. 
It's the Illuminati. New Avengers eventually becomes a companion piece for Avengers. It's what goes on behind closed doors where the decisions are being made and govern what happens in Avengers.
It will be dark, apocalyptic while Avengers are idyllic and bright. 
 
EDIT: IIRC that is.
#17 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
@Vance Astro said:
When you say running the "New Avengers" do you mean as in the team "New Avengers" or do you mean the new "Avengers"? New Avengers is still going to be a book during Marvel NOW? Who else is on the roster?
ROSTER: Captain America, Iron Man, Doctor Strange, Black Bolt, Namor, Black Panther. It's the Illuminati. New Avengers eventually becomes a companion piece for Avengers. It's what goes on behind closed doors where the decisions are being made and govern what happens in Avengers. It will be dark, apocalyptic while Avengers are idyllic and bright.
Well it's the Illuminati without Charles. I want Charles to be Cap...DO IT MARVEL!
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#18 Posted by Dernman (14726 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro: Did you read the last page of Uncanny Avengers? I think someone else has "a mind" on being Charles. :p
#19 Posted by RatFace (28 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman said:

@Vance Astro said:

When you say running the "New Avengers" do you mean as in the team "New Avengers" or do you mean the new "Avengers"? New Avengers is still going to be a book during Marvel NOW? Who else is on the roster?

ROSTER: Captain America, Iron Man, Doctor Strange, Black Bolt, Namor, Black Panther. It's the Illuminati. New Avengers eventually becomes a companion piece for Avengers. It's what goes on behind closed doors where the decisions are being made and govern what happens in Avengers. It will be dark, apocalyptic while Avengers are idyllic and bright. EDIT: IIRC that is.

The roster so far is Black Panther, Cap, Iron Man, Reed Richards, Dr. Strange, Namor, Black Bolt, & Beast. And I think I read that a female will be added.

And to answer to the OP, is it's about damn time!

#20 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991 said:

Tchalla is the best choice. He is less extreme in his nature than Namor, and Iron Man, can speak unlike Black Bolt, and Beast simply isn't a leader. I look forward to seeing how he handles the responsibility of leading this powerful group.

#21 Posted by TDK_1997 (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

It would be pretty interesting to see Black Panther leading an Avengers team and with such interesting characters in the team it would be really cool.

#22 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
@Vance Astro: Did you read the last page of Uncanny Avengers? I think someone else has "a mind" on being Charles. :p
Yes and LOL. 
 
@Mega_spidey01 said:

@Blood1991 said:

Tchalla is the best choice. He is less extreme in his nature than Namor, and Iron Man, can speak unlike Black Bolt, and Beast simply isn't a leader. I look forward to seeing how he handles the responsibility of leading this powerful group.

This doesn't make sense unless Cap isn't on the team. Cap has led the Avengers for years and he's proven himself a valid leader. 
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#23 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: I didn't think he was supposed to be, but if Havok gets to lead over him than why not Tchalla?

#24 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Blood1991 said:

@Vance Astro: I didn't think he was supposed to be, but if Havok gets to lead over him than why not Tchalla?

Because that doesn't make sense either.
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#25 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Vance Astro: I didn't think he was supposed to be, but if Havok gets to lead over him than why not Tchalla?

Because that doesn't make sense either.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure logic no longer applies to Marvel writing.

#26 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Blood1991 said:

Yes, but I'm pretty sure logic no longer applies to Marvel writing.

Doesn't appear so.
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#27 Posted by WildStyle (331 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Dernman said:
@Vance Astro: Did you read the last page of Uncanny Avengers? I think someone else has "a mind" on being Charles. :p
Yes and LOL.

@Mega_spidey01 said:

@Blood1991 said:

Tchalla is the best choice. He is less extreme in his nature than Namor, and Iron Man, can speak unlike Black Bolt, and Beast simply isn't a leader. I look forward to seeing how he handles the responsibility of leading this powerful group.

This doesn't make sense unless Cap isn't on the team. Cap has led the Avengers for years and he's proven himself a valid leader.

Cap doesn't seem to be on the team. His name isn't listed as one of the members in the solicits that came out today.

#28 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@WildStyle said:

Cap doesn't seem to be on the team. His name isn't listed as one of the members in the solicits that came out today.

Good.
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#29 Edited by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

The only thing that doesn't make sense is saying that a KING could not lead a Captain. It's fictional folks, anyone could lead who ever they like.

And again, Cap is on the team. Jock already gave the reason why he was left off the rosters. Which I also posted from his Newsarama interview.

Jock confirmed this last week when talked about the title.

Quote

Nrama: Jonathan revealed Captain America is on the team, along with Iron Man, Black Panther, Black Bolt, Namor, Mr. Fantastic, the Beast, and Dr. Strange, but we can’t make him out in the images. There seems to be seven figures consistently and Cap isn’t one of them.

That may be more a question for Jonathan or Tom, but we're gonna ask anyway, why isn’t Cap in the images?

Jock: That was an editorial note to not feature him prominently, and I ended up not using him at all. I’d love to get him in there though - the cover I’m currently sketching has him featured, and I’m trying to figure out the best way to utilize him.

#30 Edited by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Umbraa said:

The only thing that doesn't make sense is saying that a KING could not lead a Captain. It's fictional folks, anyone could lead who ever they like.

And again, Cap is on the team. Jock already gave the reason why he was left off the rosters. Which I also posted from his Newsarama interview.

It's not that T'Challa isn't a capable leader, it more doesn't make sense because Cap has already proven himself as the leader of the team and he's been a long time member. I feel like there would have to be a valid explanation for letting T'Challa lead. If Cap wasn't capable and they needed a change, that would be one thing but he is. All I can think of is Marvel is attempting to "push" Black Panther.  It's a marketing thing.
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#31 Edited by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Umbraa said:

The only thing that doesn't make sense is saying that a KING could not lead a Captain. It's fictional folks, anyone could lead who ever they like.

And again, Cap is on the team. Jock already gave the reason why he was left off the rosters. Which I also posted from his Newsarama interview.

It's not that T'Challa isn't a capable leader, it more doesn't make sense because Cap has already proven himself as the leader of the team and he's been a long time member. I feel like there would have to be a valid explanation for letting T'Challa lead. If Cap wasn't capable and they needed a change, that would be one thing but he is. All I can think of is Marvel is attempting to "push" Black Panther. It's a marketing thing.

Cap leading the Illuminati? I'm sorry, no. This is not Cap's wheel house at all, but it' T'challa's!

And Marvel attempting to "push" Black Panther is not different then Marvel attempt at "pushing" Captain America or any character.

Here is the thing. Hickman WANTED TO WRITE THIS...it not marketing at all. He wanted to use Black Panther...he choose him...If it was Marketing then Ironman would be leading, or Captain America.

Look at the Premise of the NEW AVENGERS.

Quote

NEW AVENGERS #1
Jonathan Hickman (W) •Steve Epting (A)
Cover by JOCK
Variant Cover by J. Scott Campbell
SKETCH VARIANT BY J. SCOTT CAMPBELL
Variant Cover by STEVE EPTING
Young Baby Variant by SKOTTIE YOUNG
Blank Cover Also Available
To prevent the collision of our universe with another, the Illuminati, led by the Black Panther, must assemble NOW! It's the most powerful and brilliant team in the Marvel Universe--The Black Panther, Iron Man, Doctor Strange, Black Bolt, Mister Fantastic, Namor the Sub-Mariner and The Beast--against an infinite legion of parallel realities.
32 PGS. /Rated T+ ...$3.99

They are PLANNING to save everything...T'challa wheel house, not Caps at all.

Quote

NEW AVENGERS #2

Jonathan Hickman (W) • Steve Epting (A)

Cover by JOCK

Variant Cover by SIMONE BIANCHI

"EVERYTHING DIES"

The Illuminati gather to plan for the death of Everything.

• Infinity gems, old wounds, lies, agendas and universal incursions.

• "It breaks hope -- it crushes what makes us decent and steals what little honor remains." --Black Swan

32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$3.99

#32 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Umbraa said:

And Marvel attempting to "push" Black Panther is not different the Marvel attempt at "pushing" Captain America or any character.

Here is the thing. Hickman WANTED TO WRITE THIS...it not marketing at all. If it was Marketing then Ironman would be leading, or Captain America.

Look at the Premise of the NEW AVENGERS.

You know what I take that back. I don't think this is all marketing. Captain America doesn't really fit on this team and he's the leader of the ACTUAL Avengers so I guess him not leading makes sense.
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#33 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

i aree with umbraa's statement.

#34 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro:

The NEW Avengers rule the world. Period.

And T'challa is leading them, with Cap on it. Nuff Said.

Avengers and NEW Avengers in Hickman's own words are two different sides of the same coin. Yes Cap is the leader of the Avengers and T'challa is leading the team pulling the strings of all the crap that's going on. Both Cap and Ironman are on both teams and they are shaping the Avengers team. hmmmm

#35 Edited by Teerack (5325 posts) - - Show Bio

They run out of Wakanda, but it's just going to be an Illuminati book. So no one is going to be "running" it other wise there wouldn't be a purpose of this group. I think it's kind of funny the book is called new avengers when half the "team" isn't even avengers(Blackbolt, Mr. Fantastic, Namor)

What I'm really interested about is why is Captain America not on this cover? I mean Cap plays an incredibly important role in the MU. It doesn't make sense to me for him to not be in the Illuminati anymore. And Considering Wakanda and Atlantis are at war I find it very interesting that Namor would be going to meetings in Wakanda. I don't mind Beast replacing Professor X as the Mutant Rep, but I kind of think it should have been Havok. Think about how much better things could of turned out if Scott was able to summon Illuminati meetings.

#36 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Umbraa said:

@Vance Astro:

The NEW Avengers rule the world. Period.

And T'challa is leading them, with Cap on it. Nuff Said.

Avengers and NEW Avengers in Hickman's own words are two different sides of the same coin. Yes Cap is the leader of the Avengers and T'challa is leading the team pulling the strings of all the crap that's going on. Both Cap and Ironman are on both teams and they are shaping the Avengers team. hmmmm

The teams have two different functions which is the reasoning behind the difference in leadership.
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#37 Posted by jashro44 (19562 posts) - - Show Bio

As long as he is written well I don't care. I am happy with his new role however. Means marvel still cares about the character and it also is a huge step. Readers might read about him hear who never had interest in him before and gain an interest in the character.

#38 Posted by Rell127 (291 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone know when This book comes out?

#39 Edited by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Umbraa said:

@Vance Astro:

The NEW Avengers rule the world. Period.

And T'challa is leading them, with Cap on it. Nuff Said.

Avengers and NEW Avengers in Hickman's own words are two different sides of the same coin. Yes Cap is the leader of the Avengers and T'challa is leading the team pulling the strings of all the crap that's going on. Both Cap and Ironman are on both teams and they are shaping the Avengers team. hmmmm

The teams have two different functions which is the reasoning behind the difference in leadership.

Again, Hickman's words it's the same book, different sides of the same coin. The Avengers is the team everyone sees, life etc.....The New Avengers is the one handling the BIGGER THREAT, in the shadows...death. Tony and Cap are shaping the Avengers based of off what is going on in New Avengers. There are tons of hints in F4/F4 about this story. So I'm not sure what you point is, but that's a opinion you thing that is not backed up by anything at all.

The reason T'challa is leading is because he knows what is going on and is the best one to lead them and Hickman wanted him to led. Period.

Rell, two issues come out in January. Then it's single issues from there out. Both Avengers and NEW Avengers are tied together...sort of like the F4 and FF.

#40 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm kind of sad that Luke's New Avengers is basically toast.

#41 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

I'm kind of sad that Luke's New Avengers is basically toast.

Yeah, I'm waiting to see what they have for him. He's leaving Dark Avengers too.

#42 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Umbraa said:

Again, Hickman's words it's the same book, different sides of the same coin. The Avengers is the team everyone sees, life etc.....The New Avengers is the one handling the BIGGER THREAT, in the shadows...death. Tony and Cap are shaping the Avengers based of off what is going on in New Avengers. There are tons of hints in F4/F4 about this story. So I'm not sure what you point is, but that's a opinion you thing that is not backed up by anything at all.

The reason T'challa is leading is because he knows what is going on and is the best one to lead them and Hickman wanted him to led. Period.

Rell, two issues come out in January. Then it's single issues from there out. Both Avengers and NEW Avengers are tied together...sort of like the F4 and FF.

It's not the same book. The Avengers and the Illuminati are two different teams and have two different functions. It doesn't matter what threats they handle. My initial issue with Black Panther leading is that if this was simply another Avengers team and Cap is on it, it doesn't make any sense, for him to be taking orders from T'challa. Now that I know that New Avengers is basically the Illuminati, it makes more sense to me. I don't know what you're saying I need to "back up". I'm not trying to prove anything. Maybe you don't understand what i'm saying. Black Panther is leading the Illuminati because Hickman wanted him to lead but he also chose a team HE COULD lead and based on the type of character he is, it makes a bit of sense. He's not leading the main Avengers team he's leading a group of heroes that never really had a leader. You said that the fact that he's leading a team with Cap on it is saying something but in reality considering what the Illuminati is, Cap shouldn't even be on the team.
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#43 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Umbraa said:

Again, Hickman's words it's the same book, different sides of the same coin. The Avengers is the team everyone sees, life etc.....The New Avengers is the one handling the BIGGER THREAT, in the shadows...death. Tony and Cap are shaping the Avengers based of off what is going on in New Avengers. There are tons of hints in F4/F4 about this story. So I'm not sure what you point is, but that's a opinion you thing that is not backed up by anything at all.

The reason T'challa is leading is because he knows what is going on and is the best one to lead them and Hickman wanted him to led. Period.

Rell, two issues come out in January. Then it's single issues from there out. Both Avengers and NEW Avengers are tied together...sort of like the F4 and FF.

It's not the same book. The Avengers and the Illuminati are two different teams and have two different functions. It doesn't matter what threats they handle. My initial issue with Black Panther leading is that if this was simply another Avengers team and Cap is on it, it doesn't make any sense, for him to be taking orders from T'challa. Now that I know that New Avengers is basically the Illuminati, it makes more sense to me. I don't know what you're saying I need to "back up". I'm not trying to prove anything. Maybe you don't understand what i'm saying. Black Panther is leading the Illuminati because Hickman wanted him to lead but he also chose a team HE COULD lead and based on the type of character he is, it makes a bit of sense. He's not leading the main Avengers team he's leading a group of heroes that never really had a leader. You said that the fact that he's leading a team with Cap on it is saying something but in reality considering what the Illuminati is, Cap shouldn't even be on the team.

...Clearly YOU would know better then Hickman himself right? Let's see.

Quote

Jonathan Hickman: Yeah, very much so. AVENGERS and NEW AVENGERS are really just two sides of the same book, of the same story. Thematically, they’re aligned too. AVENGERS is about life and NEW AVENGERS is about death. That’s what the two books are. It’s a big book. In the AVENGERS, we tackle the biggest things.

Say what now? So you are saying something as fact, when it's not a fact but an opinion. As I stated in my post, backed by what Hickman has said himself...it's the same book, same story. Cap is on the NA team because he's a world leader. He's the USA's top cop and runs the Avengers and SHIELD, besides he a member of the Illuminati anyhow. Cap has been on teams where he was not the leader, including Avengers teams. Saying that he does not make sense, doesn't make sense.

Fact is it's the same book and same story as the writer himself has said. New Avengers seems to be the driving force as it should be and T'challa is leading two of the leaders of the Avengers "Life" team with Cap and Ironman on that team (as leaders). Also, T'challa could lead any team, there is no limitation on that.

#44 Edited by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Umbraa said:

...Clearly YOU would know better then Hickman himself right? Let's see.

No, because Hickman and I aren't saying different things. 
 
@Umbraa said:

Say what now? So you are saying something as fact, when it's not a fact but an opinion. As I stated in my post, backed by what Hickman has said himself...it's the same book, same story. Cap is on the NA team because he's a world leader. He's the USA's top cop and runs the Avengers and SHIELD, besides he a member of the Illuminati anyhow. Cap has been on teams where he was not the leader, including Avengers teams. Saying that he does not make sense, doesn't make sense.

Fact is it's the same book and same story as the writer himself has said. New Avengers seems to be the driving force as it should be and T'challa is leading two of the leaders of the Avengers "Life" team with Cap and Ironman on that team (as leaders). Also, T'challa could lead any team, there is no limitation on that.

No, i'm saying something is a fact because it is and that quote doesn't change that. What the Illuminati does is different in comparison to what the Avengers do, the fact that the stories link up between the two books has nothing to do with what I am saying. The Illuminati isn't simply another Avengers team, what they do and what the Avengers do are different and Hickman breaks that down in the interview you took that quote from. Just because "what they do" is PART of the same story doesn't mean they are the same in nature, otherwise there would have been no point of Hickman resurrecting the Illuminati, at least not to make a book out of it. I know that Cap has been on teams that he wasn't the leader of but we aren't talking about other teams we're talking about the Avengers and he's ALMOST always lead them. No other Avengers has lead the Avengers longer or more often than Captain America. I took back my original statement though because the Illuminati is different from the Avengers. 
 
Fact is, there is obviously a difference between the two teams (Here comes the opinion part) and I'm fine with Black Panther running the Illuminati because it makes more sense to me that he would run a team that functions like the Illuminati, rather than another superhero team, but if Black Panther was to be the leader of the core Avengers, that to me wouldn't make any sense unless Cap was either NOT on the team or there was something that happened to him that kept him from performing that task as well as he had in the past. T'challa is CAPABLE of leading any team..that doesn't mean it makes SENSE for him to do so. There would have to be an explanation as to why an able bodied Cap would step down and let T'challa of all characters take his place.
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#45 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sorry, but it's not a FACT. It's just your opinion. What Hickman said IS A FACT. You don't have to like it, but your opinion does not change what he has been saying, what I have said.

AVENGERS and NEW AVENGERS are really just two sides of the same book, of the same story.

#46 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Umbraa said:

I'm sorry, but it's not a FACT. It's just your opinion. What Hickman said IS A FACT. You don't have to like it, but your opinion does not change what he has been saying, what I have said.

Either you're not reading what I'm saying or you don't understand what I'm saying. What Hickman said doesn't contradict what I just said.
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#47 Edited by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

I read what you are saying. I'm saying it's a opinion. Why? because it is. Again, Captain America HAS been on teams where he was not the leader, including Avengers teams. NEW Avengers is a team and as Hickman said Cap and Stark are building that team based on things going on in NEW Avengers and to face the large threats.

So your opinion is that it would not make sense. Mine is that it doesn't matter.

#48 Posted by RatFace (28 posts) - - Show Bio

@Umbraa said:

I read what you are saying. I'm saying it's a opinion. Why? because it is. Again, Captain America HAS been on teams where he was not the leader, including Avengers teams. NEW Avengers is a team and as Hickman said Cap and Stark are building that team based on things going on in NEW Avengers and to face the large threats.

So your opinion is that it would not make sense. Mine is that it doesn't matter.

You mean like on Uncanny Avengers? ;-)

#49 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Flawed Logic: A has always been the leader so B can’t lead.

Explanation of Flaw: Just because A has been the leader and is effective doesn’t mean that B can’t be just as effective or even more so.

Just because A has been leader doesn’t mean that he can’t follow, especially if he HAS been a soldier who follows orders.

Secondary flawed logic: A has been leader so it doesn’t make sense for M to not have him lead again.

Explanation of Flaw: Leading before does not mean always leading. What if M wanted to reflect the changes in life? Leaders change along

with moods, intentions, goals and judgment.

#50 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Umbraa said:

I read what you are saying. I'm saying it's a opinion. Why? because it is. Again, Captain America HAS been on teams where he was not the leader, including Avengers teams. NEW Avengers is a team and as Hickman said Cap and Stark are building that team based on things going on in NEW Avengers and to face the large threats.

So your opinion is that it would not make sense. Mine is that it doesn't matter.

I don't think you did because you keep reposting Hickman's words as if to suggest they contradict my own but they don't. There has been several Avengers teams over the last 5-6 years and there has always been a reason for leadership change. I thought that the New Avengers would simply be a superhero team like they had been in the past I didn't know the roster. I only heard that Cap and Black Panther were both on the team but Black Panther was leading. The only reason I could assume they would let Black Panther lead is because Cap is already a member of another team that he leads and wouldn't be able to divide the time. Now that I know they are the Illuminati and knowing what I know about how the group is structured from their previous incarnation under Bendis, it makes sense to me that, someone with T'Challa's intellect and his experience as king would assume a leadership role there, otherwise it DOESN'T make sense, WITHOUT a proper explanation. No writer takes a over a team book and makes a character the leader without a valid explanation.
 
@Mykhael said:

Flawed Logic: A has always been the leader so B can’t lead.

That was never anyone's logic. My logic was, if there was going to be an Avengers team with Captain America on it that he's not leading, there should be a logical explanation for it.
 
@Mykhael said:

Explanation of Flaw: Just because A has been the leader and is effective doesn’t mean that B can’t be just as effective or even more so.

This is flawed logic because in the case that the effective leader is still effective, why would the team change leaders?  

@Mykhael said:

Just because A has been leader doesn’t mean that he can’t follow, especially if he HAS been a soldier who follows orders.

Nobody ever said that Cap has always lead every team he's been on.  
 
@Mykhael said:

Explanation of Flaw: Leading before does not mean always leading.

Which is obvious and nobody ever said the opposite.
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