Do people hate Black Panther?

#1 Edited by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Hello Good People!

Over the past two years I’ve gotten into the Black Panther, only fairly recently getting back into comics outside of Transformers,

I was looking for something to try and picked up Hudlin’s “who is the black

panther?” I thought it was interesting but something was missing. So I

collected everything I could find and picked up every issue of Priest’s run

which was amazing (it actually made Hudlin’s run even worse than it did by

comparison). I also enjoyed the run Liss had with the character.

So now as a Panther why do so many people hate him?

Some people refuse to acknowledge that Panther could be

force to be reckoned with in Marvel when in the right hands. On the internet

I’ve stumbled on comments and statements about Affirmative action force is the

Panther is doing well, or statements like PIS when the Panther wins a fight.

In Panther’s first appearance in the comics he was a

brilliant strategist, an excellent fighter, fast, somewhat powerful in his own

right. It’s not like the Panther was taking down Joe Nobody he took on the

fantastic four in Dr. Doom Fashion. This is the Panther that Christopher Priest

said he wanted to right, the one that was created by Stan Lee. So the Panther

has always had the potential to be a power player in Marvel but now a days I

see people respond to things like the panther taking on the avengers as

“politically correct nonsense”.

So I want to know was it politically correct nonsense

when he was a badass in his first appearance? Was it Affirmative action then?

Was it PIS?

First of all PIS just seems to be a term used to dismiss

an outcome or you don’t like in comics and it just reflects the change that has

occurred in the fanbase since I was kid, fans are more critical now some even

to the point of believing they are right and the writer and the publisher is

wrong even though it’s approved before its printed.

I’m new here and I don’t do forums much and maybe I’m

exaggerating this but why do people not want to give the Panther his due

respect and dismiss what he’s capable of as well as what he’s done?

#2 Posted by RoboShark (1208 posts) - - Show Bio

I was not aware there was a large amount of Black Panther hate.

#3 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

I've only met one person who hates the Black Panther and that was because he admitted to never reading a comic with him and thinking that he was just "black Batman". So I can't respond to allot of hate that you've encountered for the character because I haven't seen it first hand. Personally BP is my second favorite Marvel character and my 4th favorite comic character overall. He definitely has potential to be a major force in the MU and one of the self proclaimed "Marvel Architects" and a major and well respected writer at the company John Hickman has said in an interviews that Panther should be one of the companies primary characters. As for the PIS thing every character with enough fights does have a PIS induced loss or victory including BP but it is likely that some of those claims are based simply on hate for the character.

#4 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, maybe hate is too strong a word. I've been told by people that "He's just a terrible character". Now most of them have not read much but still, some people arent receptive.

#5 Posted by Dernman (14724 posts) - - Show Bio

I never hated him. In fact I kinda liked him before I actually started reading things or watching things with him in it. The more I read though the more I dislike him but no I don't hate him.  I can see why people like him though.  I can also see how people see him just like Batman only more because there are similarities.  
 
As far as there being a lot of hate for the character. I never really seen that. I've only really seen two reactions towards Black Panther a like or meh fealing.

#6 Posted by Mercy_ (92501 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't care about him enough to hate him.

Moderator
#7 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not a fan, but I don't hate him either. Always found him boring.

#8 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Have any of you guys that don't care for him read any of Christopher Priest's run?

I understand why people dislike Hudlin's run, there was a lot not to like and he didn't really do the character justice. I just felt like he was trying to shove respect of the character down my throat while Priest really made you naturally like him.

#9 Posted by EdwardWindsor (14400 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

I don't care about him enough to hate him.

this. He's not bad he's not great he's kinnda muh

#10 Posted by Night Thrasher (3599 posts) - - Show Bio

Panther is the Philadelphia 76ers of comics. He's respected much as the 76ers are as a franchise, but he's not a pillar of his company. If Panther gets an all star creative team, much like the Sixers got Iverson and Barkley, then people would pay attention. Other than that, people know he exists, acknowledge he's a decent character, but just don't care enough about him to buy his book.

#11 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Night Thrasher said:

Panther is the Philadelphia 76ers of comics. He's respected much as the 76ers are as a franchise, but he's not a pillar of his company. If Panther gets an all star creative team, much like the Sixers got Iverson and Barkley, then people would pay attention. Other than that, people know he exists, acknowledge he's a decent character, but just don't care enough about him to buy his book.

The creative team is irrelevant. Black Panther's character was doomed from his creation.He never had a chance for success.
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#12 Edited by TheThe (1729 posts) - - Show Bio

People hate his wife, not him. So maybe BP is taking the Storm-bashing effects on him, lol. Seriously, i understand why somebody could say he looks like a Batman version. And since he's black, there will always be some one to say the reason why BP exists , it's because he is black.

For a reason i dont know on CV, except Storm,people tend to think a black character cant stand by itself. It's occur to them that everytime a black character is created, that means writers were forced to political correctness(John Stewart, Milo Morales, Batwing and so on). I just dont know why some people cant enjoy a character from the "minority" when he is good, and despise him when he is bad without saying things about ethnicity or sexual orientation.

It's weird. As for BP, i wouldnt say they hate him. They are actually thankfull for taking Storm away LOL. Other than that, some just dont care, the others respect him without lovin him.

#13 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

I don't care about him enough to hate him.

#14 Posted by Night Thrasher (3599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: I think the creative team matters with most characters (Superman, Batman, Spider-Man aside). Same could be said for Green Arrow, he carried a few series for awhile. Most of his monthlies started out strong with good creative teams with good name recognition, but once the original creative team left so did a lot of his readers. Most monthlies have about 50% of readers who are monthly fans, 25% are curious readers who want to "check it out", and the other 25% like either the writer, artist or both.

#15 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Night Thrasher said:

@Vance Astro: I think the creative team matters with most characters (Superman, Batman, Spider-Man aside). Same could be said for Green Arrow, he carried a few series for awhile. Most of his monthlies started out strong with good creative teams with good name recognition, but once the original creative team left so did a lot of his readers. Most monthlies have about 50% of readers who are monthly fans, 25% are curious readers who want to "check it out", and the other 25% like either the writer, artist or both.

The creative team only matters if you can get people to read it first. Yea you can praise Dan Slott's work on Spider-Man or Morrison's on Batman's because you're actually willing to read it.Marvel has put Eisner winning creative teams on books that still didn't do well.It's all about incentive.
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#16 Posted by Night Thrasher (3599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: That's kinda what I'm saying. If it were announced today that Grant Morrison was going to be writing Black Panther with Chris Bachalo penciling, then I can almost guarantee that the 1st issue is going to sell in the top 10, have about 10 variant covers, and at least 2 reprints. The thing about it is that around issue 6 Grant's going to leave and Chris would've probably been gone for about 2 issues. When they replace them, Panther's core fan base isn't strong enough to endure a mediocre to bad creative team. He isn't that type of character. He needs to be handled with baby gloves because a) he doesn't have the mainstream recognition to warrant a rabid following and b) he doesn't have a movie or TV series to build that following. Give him either a superstar creative team, or some mainstream exposure then he could pull it off.

And I'm aware of the crappy appearance in the FF cartoons and the even crappier motion comic.

#17 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Night Thrasher said:

@Vance Astro: That's kinda what I'm saying. If it were announced today that Grant Morrison was going to be writing Black Panther with Chris Bachalo penciling, then I can almost guarantee that the 1st issue is going to sell in the top 10, have about 10 variant covers, and at least 2 reprints. The thing about it is that around issue 6 Grant's going to leave and Chris would've probably been gone for about 2 issues. When they replace them, Panther's core fan base isn't strong enough to endure a mediocre to bad creative team. He isn't that type of character. He needs to be handled with baby gloves because a) he doesn't have the mainstream recognition to warrant a rabid following and b) he doesn't have a movie or TV series to build that following. Give him either a superstar creative team, or some mainstream exposure then he could pull it off.

And I'm aware of the crappy appearance in the FF cartoons and the even crappier motion comic.

Marvel needs to change their entire marketing strategy for the character. A retcon or two may help. The very concept of Wakanda hurts the character immensely.
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#18 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

i liked him in the avengers EMH show and that has gotten me interested in him, but there are some problems his character. he doesn't have any human flaws. unlike spider-man black panther is too much of a gary stu too hard to relate to. i don't even undertand the full extent of his powers and his fighting style. if a good writer & artist comes along and want to tell an interesting story i be willing to check it out. what do u think about luke cage as a character ? he's headlining two teams?

#19 Posted by Dernman (14724 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro:  

The very concept of Wakanda hurts the character immensely.

How so? 
#20 Posted by Night Thrasher (3599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: I don't think it's Wakanda that's turns off readers. I think the whole thing with a lot of minority characters, especially Black and Latino characters is that the writer constantly reminds us that he/she's black. If you have a colorist that graduated from kindergarten then we know he's black. Wakanda is just as foreign to us as being a billionaire or being from the 30th century. I think if Ellis or Hickman or Slott got their hands on the character it could do wonders.

#21 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dernman said:
@Vance Astro:  

The very concept of Wakanda hurts the character immensely.

How so? 
Wakanda is a country in Africa where it's people purposely isolates themselves from the rest of the world. So whether he's fighting crime in the U.S. or taking care of an issue in Wakanda, having an obligation to Wakanda as it's king, keeps him from being more of a factor in the most important things happening in the Marvel Universe. You understand what i'm saying?
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#22 Edited by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Night Thrasher said:

@Vance Astro: I don't think it's Wakanda that's turns off readers. I think the whole thing with a lot of minority characters, especially Black and Latino characters is that the writer constantly reminds us that he/she's black. If you have a colorist that graduated from kindergarten then we know he's black. Wakanda is just as foreign to us as being a billionaire or being from the 30th century. I think if Ellis or Hickman or Slott got their hands on the character it could do wonders.

Characters who aren't white hetero males would sell more if Marvel showed more interest and spread the oppertunities. Being the King of Wakanda makes Black Panther's role in certain things pointless and thus minimal. Therefore people don't get those epic moments they get with other characters more popular characters. Marvel's selling point for all of their books as of late have been "events".The last event I remember Black Panther having a huge role in is DoomWar, which was obviously eclipsed by Siege in which Black Panther had no real role.
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#23 Edited by Night Thrasher (3599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Dernman said:
@Vance Astro:

The very concept of Wakanda hurts the character immensely.

How so?
Wakanda is a country in Africa where it's people purposely isolates themselves from the rest of the world. So whether he's fighting crime in the U.S. or taking care of an issue in Wakanda, having an obligation to Wakanda as it's king, keeps him from being more of a factor in the most important things happening in the Marvel Universe. You understand what i'm saying?

I don't think isolation from the rest of the Marvel Universe is such a bad thing. It actually brings him closer to Dr. Doom and Namor and gives him a lot of freedom to stay away from horrible events. Wakanda itself is a wonderful place that could actually use some fleshing out. We know a little bit about it's past but very little about the present. Religion, economics, culture could all be hit upon about the country.

@Vance Astro said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@Vance Astro: I don't think it's Wakanda that's turns off readers. I think the whole thing with a lot of minority characters, especially Black and Latino characters is that the writer constantly reminds us that he/she's black. If you have a colorist that graduated from kindergarten then we know he's black. Wakanda is just as foreign to us as being a billionaire or being from the 30th century. I think if Ellis or Hickman or Slott got their hands on the character it could do wonders.

Characters who aren't white hetero males would sell more if Marvel showed more interest and spread the oppertunities. Being the King of Wakanda makes Black Panther's role in certain things pointless and thus minimal. Therefore people don't get those epic moments they get with other characters more popular characters. Marvel's selling point for all of their books as of late have been "events".The last event I remember Black Panther having a huge role in is DoomWar, which was obviously eclipsed by Siege in which Black Panther had no real role.

I agree with this completely.

#24 Posted by TheThe (1729 posts) - - Show Bio

If Wakanda is a bad thing, why characters like Aquaman are popular with tons of comics sales ?

#25 Posted by Dernman (14724 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
@Dernman said:
@Vance Astro:  

The very concept of Wakanda hurts the character immensely.

How so? 
Wakanda is a country in Africa where it's people purposely isolates themselves from the rest of the world. So whether he's fighting crime in the U.S. or taking care of an issue in Wakanda, having an obligation to Wakanda as it's king, keeps him from being more of a factor in the most important things happening in the Marvel Universe. You understand what i'm saying?
Ya I see your point.
#26 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Night Thrasher said:

I don't think isolation from the rest of the Marvel Universe is such a bad thing. 

It hurt Daredevil's sales. Although he is stationed in NY,Hell's Kitchen..he often takes on threats by himself or with less known heroes (like Black Tarantula and White Tiger). They left him out of every event and it effected his success.Even with having his own event and rebooting his series, he's still digging his way out of the hole.
 
@Night Thrasher said:

It actually brings him closer to Dr. Doom and Namor and gives him a lot of freedom to stay away from horrible events. Wakanda itself is a wonderful place that could actually use some fleshing out. We know a little bit about it's past but very little about the present. Religion, economics, culture could all be hit upon about the country.

Dr. Doom and Namor aren't very popular.If I'm trying to boost sales for a character I would want him around characters like Spider-Man,Wolverine,Thor,Iron Man etc. Events suck but they do wonders for books. When Ms.Marvel had tie-ins to events her sales saw it's highest points (until Dark Reign when Moonstone took over). The Punisher and She-Hulk also faired well by having tie-ins.
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#27 Edited by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheThe said:

If Wakanda is a bad thing, why characters like Aquaman are popular with tons of comics sales ?

He's and active and recognizable member of the Justice League. The Justice Friends cartoon and various other media outside of comics showed the world who Aquaman is. Even if you don't take the character serious, you know who he is. His sales increase was due to the DCU reboot\revamp though. I think alot of DC's characters saw a boost after that.
Moderator
#28 Posted by Night Thrasher (3599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Night Thrasher said:

I don't think isolation from the rest of the Marvel Universe is such a bad thing.

It hurt Daredevil's sales. Although he is stationed in NY,Hell's Kitchen..he often takes on threats by himself or with less known heroes (like Black Tarantula and White Tiger). They left him out of every event and it effected his success.Even with having his own event and rebooting his series, he's still digging his way out of the hole.

@Night Thrasher said:

It actually brings him closer to Dr. Doom and Namor and gives him a lot of freedom to stay away from horrible events. Wakanda itself is a wonderful place that could actually use some fleshing out. We know a little bit about it's past but very little about the present. Religion, economics, culture could all be hit upon about the country.

Dr. Doom and Namor aren't very popular.If I'm trying to boost sales for a character I would want him around characters like Spider-Man,Wolverine,Thor,Iron Man etc. Events suck but they do wonders for books. When Ms.Marvel had tie-ins to events her sales saw it's highest points (until Dark Reign when Moonstone took over). The Punisher and She-Hulk also faired well by having tie-ins.

You have to remember also that Daredevil lost an superstar writer. His 2nd series started off with Kevin Smith who is a BIG Hollywood director. He got replaced by David Mack who was a pretty well known indie guy, but no where near as well known as Kevin Smith. Then came Bendis and Brubaker who were an indie guy from powers and a crime noir novelist respectively. I think losing Kevin Smith hurt the sales more than anything.

Dr. Doom is one of the most well known comic villains in existence and Namor has a pretty decent fan base. If I were looking at it purely from a sales perspective I would have to say the creative team would be my biggest concern. As long as I had a popular writer and superstar artist I could get the sales. If I had J. Scott Campbell as a cover artist I could sale "Flying Turd Man" comics.

#29 Posted by Twentyfive (2832 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther is one of marvel's eight smartest people (either fifth or sixth). He can make things that rival the things that Tony Stark makes for crying out loud. He lives in a country where science (my favorite aspect of the character) meets magic, and he is a master of both. T'Challa is the most dangerous man alive, and behind him in Wakanda, is an arsenal of weapons that help to prove that. He has technology unlike any other character in the Marvel U, so I don't see how it is that he isn't currently on the stands with his own ongoing book.

#30 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
@Night Thrasher said:

You have to remember also that Daredevil lost an superstar writer. His 2nd series started off with Kevin Smith who is a BIG Hollywood director. He got replaced by David Mack who was a pretty well known indie guy, but no where near as well known as Kevin Smith. Then came Bendis and Brubaker who were an indie guy from powers and a crime noir novelist respectively. I think losing Kevin Smith hurt the sales more than anything.

Losing Kevin Smith had nothing to do with the decline in sales. Kevin Smith only wrote the first 8 issues of Daredevil Vol.2.That ended in '98. The books didn't see a decline in sales until the near end of Bendis' run in 2005. Between '05 and '06 is when the yearly events started coming in. With arcs like Disassembled and Civil War.Sales declined more as Daredevil was left out of events.Couldn't have been Brubaker's writing..he snagged 3 Eisner's from writing Daredevil. 
 
 
@Night Thrasher said:

Dr. Doom is one of the most well known comic villains in existence and Namor has a pretty decent fan base. If I were looking at it purely from a sales perspective I would have to say the creative team would be my biggest concern. As long as I had a popular writer and superstar artist I could get the sales. If I had J. Scott Campbell as a cover artist I could sale "Flying Turd Man" comics.

I still don't think the creative team matters as much as marketing gimmicks. The books Marvel cancelled in the last couple of years weren't cancelled because of their creative teams. Herc for instance was written and designed by the same writers that were successful on the Incredible Herc book. Yet Herc was cancelled after I believe 12 issues. It's not who writes it..it's what you write.
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#31 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

Every character is hated by someone and loved by someone else.

#32 Posted by TDK_1997 (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think so.

#33 Posted by stormphoenix (897 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't hate him just don't like him.

#34 Posted by daredevil21134 (10828 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Dernman said:
@Vance Astro:

The very concept of Wakanda hurts the character immensely.

How so?
Wakanda is a country in Africa where it's people purposely isolates themselves from the rest of the world. So whether he's fighting crime in the U.S. or taking care of an issue in Wakanda, having an obligation to Wakanda as it's king, keeps him from being more of a factor in the most important things happening in the Marvel Universe. You understand what i'm saying?

I agree with this

#35 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

I just don't care for him. He's not really worth my dislike.

#36 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive said:

Black Panther is one of marvel's eight smartest people (either fifth or sixth). He can make things that rival the things that Tony Stark makes for crying out loud. He lives in a country where science (my favorite aspect of the character) meets magic, and he is a master of both. T'Challa is the most dangerous man alive, and behind him in Wakanda, is an arsenal of weapons that help to prove that. He has technology unlike any other character in the Marvel U, so I don't see how it is that he isn't currently on the stands with his own ongoing book.

preach on.

#37 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mega_spidey01: Cage is fine. I havent been up on him like I want but I'm glad to see that he's getting respect and is progressing.

#38 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think Wakanda is the problem either, I think that

being king of his own nation gives the panther unique opportunity for complex

political stories as well as the chance to blend and explore different cultural

limitations.

I think the problem with the panther has been that writers have largely ignored what has come before them.

Stan Lee created and wrote him as a genius the level of Reed Richards, a mysterious brilliant strategist, planner and fighter with

amazing technology.

Don McGregor the character seemed to have a different focus

Jack Kirby’s run was a bit odd

Priest's run was the only time that someone really tried keep some continuity and keep or at least acknowledge all the writers that came

before. It turned out to be what is widely accepted as Tchalla's best run(also his longest). He stated in an interview that he basically wrote the same

character that Stan Lee wrote.

Hudlin had decent concepts that were poorly executed on so many levels. But he largely ignored a lot of what had came before and it didn’t

do the character justice.

Liss did a solid job of taking Tchalla back to his roots at least in the way of Tchalla being a serious master strategist.

Consistency has been a major problem. So you have people that don't know about his history and you have people that think Tchalla can't

beat anyone of note.

If Tchalla gets solid consistent writing, and is maybe involved in a major storyline things might improve with his popularity.

#39 Posted by Queso6p4 (1430 posts) - - Show Bio

@Night Thrasher: Agreed. I actually love Wakanda and a good creative team is integral to developing a character well.

#40 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

The "Raindrops" do now. AHAHAHAHAHAHA

#41 Posted by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

I've only met one person who hates the Black Panther and that was because he admitted to never reading a comic with him and thinking that he was just "black Batman".

...Me?

#42 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

I don't care about him enough to hate him.

#43 Posted by Cozy_Da_Djed_Eye (9949 posts) - - Show Bio

By his credentials he's better than most other h2h heroes like him (IMHO). By feats, he's down to their level and maybe even beneath them. I think people are just sensitive to race. They shouldn't have to worry anymore though since he's been ruined.

#44 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with Vance's point, he needs to step the f*ck down as the King and join the Avengers as a core member.

#45 Posted by ExtraLarge (243 posts) - - Show Bio

True. He never sticks around the Avengers long enough for people to get to know him.

#46 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

i just think he needs good writer to flesh him and a good artist and out him on a team book or solo.

he's freakin badass cool on avengers EMH show. the banter between him and hawkeye is funny.

#47 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

He's been fleshed out, its just not enough people buy his books to keep it going. Yeah, he is badass in EMH

#48 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: Do people think Namor should step down as king? Just asking because I don't know, I'm wondering if people think it hurts his character.

#49 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12506 posts) - - Show Bio

Some people do. I hear ignorant on YouTube complaint about how he was created to make whites look bad and such and such

#50 Posted by CODYSF (2053 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't hate the character I just find him boring.

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