Did Hudlin hurt T'Challa's cred?

#1 Edited by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Question, do you think that Reggie Hudlin's run had a long term negative effect on the crediblity of Black Panther?

It's pretty much accepted that Preist/ along with Don and Stan are the defenitive BP sources on the BP and Priest's stories were great.

I'm interested to know what you think.

Is Hudlin's run with it's rectons and some of his poorly executed stories one reason that Marvel has no idea with what to do with T'Challa now?

#2 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio

What do you mean by credibility?

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#3 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Credibility with the fanbase. Preist brought new respect to the Panther but did Hudlin hurt that?

#4 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mykhael said:

Credibility with the fanbase. Preist brought new respect to the Panther but did Hudlin hurt that?

Hudlin's run wasn't very good but I don't think he ruined T'Challa's reputation.
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#5 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio

If anything...Liss hurt Black Panther's credibility.

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#6 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

Liss's run among Panther fans and among critics got better reviews. You are honestly the only person I've encountered that really just didn't like the writing.

#7 Posted by moneyspider1 (113 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro:Liss did not hurt Black Panther's credibility. Liss was given the task BY MARVEL to write the character operating in Hell's Kitchen, and toward the end of the Liss series, Liss was trying to give Black Panther BACK (to some degree) what had been taken away from the character. He had to do his best with a premise that Marvel came up with. So how on Earth is Liss to blame?

#8 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

Hudlin did things wrong, and did some things right......but he didn't ruin anyone's credibility.

#9 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

Hudlin's writing, as well as his portrayal of T'Challa, was a little off-putting. But, I don't think it hurt the character's reputation.

As of recently, his continuity of his retcon is questionable. I say this because of the version of Klaw (cyborg) he used, which was never used again. Other writers (like Mayberry and McDuffie) were using the Master of Sound version of Klaw. On top of that, Liss reintroduced Hunter back into Black Panther, while Hunter was nowhere to be seen when Hudlin was writing Black Panther. Hudlin himself told me that continuity changes all of the time, so I don't think he cares whether or not his retcon is still valid.

#10 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mykhael said:

Liss's run among Panther fans and among critics got better reviews. You are honestly the only person I've encountered that really just didn't like the writing.

I haven't liked the writing in Black Panther since Priest. 
 
@moneyspider1 said:
@Vance Astro:Liss did not hurt Black Panther's credibility. Liss was given the task BY MARVEL to write the character operating in Hell's Kitchen, and toward the end of the Liss series, Liss was trying to give Black Panther BACK (to some degree) what had been taken away from the character. He had to do his best with a premise that Marvel came up with. So how on Earth is Liss to blame?
I wasn't actually saying he did, I don't think any writer hurt Black Panther's credibility. My point was, if I had to nitpick and choose a writer that hurt his credibility it would be Liss. Hudlin's run was the most successful and Priest's was the most critically acclaimed.
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#11 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know, seeing as how BP's history and established accomplishments are as well known as other characters, fans who hadn't read Preist's run might be more likely to dismiss the character after reading Hudlin's interpratation.

With all the depowering, and weakening of BP's position over the last few years, and the poor recton's (Like Shuri's introduction) I'm starting to believe that Hudlin's run had more consequences than was previously thought. Including hurting fan perception of the characer.

#12 Edited by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mykhael said:

I don't know, seeing as how BP's history and established accomplishments are as well known as other characters, fans who hadn't read Preist's run might be more likely to dismiss the character after reading Hudlin's interpratation.

With all the depowering, and weakening of BP's position over the last few years, and the poor recton's (Like Shuri's introduction) I'm starting to believe that Hudlin's run had more consequences than was previously thought. Including hurting fan perception of the characer.

Bendis' poor writing didn't ruin Moon Knight's reputation. Most of his fans hated Bendis' take on the character but they remained hopeful that Marvel would release a new series with better writing. I don't see why it would be different with Hudlin. If you actually care about the character, whatever comes next should be on your radar.
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#13 Edited by windcaster (228 posts) - - Show Bio

Ambivalence is something I definitely feel about this man's run. BP: Civil WAR trade was the first comic I had the courage to buy. I love Shuri she can be more than just a supporting character. That Bantu/Wakandan rap at the intro of his TV series was  AWESOME! My two biggest disappointments with him was the characters dialogue and change of continuity. The way he handled the racial aspects of BP during his run came as borderline anti-white where Preist was more pro-black. The way he married Storm and T'chall was rushed. I remember Preist joked in an interview about how he wanted to marry Storm and T'challa too, but Marvel said no. Last but not least it got to the point where he and Storm had come off as African-Americans instead of Africans. I get that he was trying to reach out to more black readers, but come on. Am I the only one who thinks Storm would never say "real talk"?

#14 Posted by Genki_Sudo (55 posts) - - Show Bio

No but it's the racial tones in his run that off put a lot of people and they now want to believe that's all the character is about

#15 Posted by RatFace (28 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Mykhael said:

Liss's run among Panther fans and among critics got better reviews. You are honestly the only person I've encountered that really just didn't like the writing.

I haven't liked the writing in Black Panther since Priest.

@moneyspider1 said:
@Vance Astro:Liss did not hurt Black Panther's credibility. Liss was given the task BY MARVEL to write the character operating in Hell's Kitchen, and toward the end of the Liss series, Liss was trying to give Black Panther BACK (to some degree) what had been taken away from the character. He had to do his best with a premise that Marvel came up with. So how on Earth is Liss to blame?
I wasn't actually saying he did, I don't think any writer hurt Black Panther's credibility. My point was, if I had to nitpick and choose a writer that hurt his credibility it would be Liss. Hudlin's run was the most successful and Priest's was the most critically acclaimed.

That's exactly what you said though. You should be a politician, you have the flip-flop down pat.

In regards to the OP, my answer is no.

The one that hurt BP's cred was Maberry.

#16 Edited by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
@RatFace said:

That's exactly what you said though. You should be a politician, you have the flip-flop down pat.

That ISN'T exactly what I said. I said "IF ANYTHING Liss Hurt his credibility". That doesn't imply that he did. 
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#17 Posted by RatFace (28 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@RatFace said:

That's exactly what you said though. You should be a politician, you have the flip-flop down pat.

That ISN'T exactly what I said. I said "IF ANYTHING Liss Hurt his credibility". That doesn't imply that he did.

So "if anything" means you didn't say what you said? All right whatever. I still say you have an excellent future in politics.

#18 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
@RatFace said:

So "if anything" means you didn't say what you said? All right whatever. I still say you have an excellent future in politics.

You said that I said "Liss hurt Black Panther's credibility" I didn't. If anything was part of the sentence. You misinterpreted it, but it was already explained for you, before you posted.
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#19 Posted by RatFace (28 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@RatFace said:

So "if anything" means you didn't say what you said? All right whatever. I still say you have an excellent future in politics.

You said that I said "Liss hurt Black Panther's credibility" I didn't. If anything was part of the sentence. You misinterpreted it, but it was already explained for you, before you posted.

Sorry dude, putting "if anything" in there doesn't invalidate what you said.

#20 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
@RatFace said:

Sorry dude, putting "if anything" in there doesn't invalidate what you said.

You can take it anyway you want. I know what I meant.
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#21 Posted by voodoo1971 (12 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that all the writers had some good input and some bad. I like Hudlin and what he was trying to do but as Black Man I have to say just show me what Black Panther is doing for Wakanda, against Villians but at times he seemed like he was trying too hard to show that hey look its a Black Super Hero. We know this and we're proud of it, he has his own series so nuff said on that just go kick ass. I know that there is racial issue in the world but he is the King of Wakanda a country within the African continent, a civilization that is way ahead of other country, other super powers. I believe T'Challa knows how much political, social power he posses outside of his heart shape herbs. Other thanthat, yes he did get depowered but got more power when he came back through that spiritual plane through his voodoo priest. Now he has magic in his arsenal. What I don't understand if the BP book said he was more powerful then before and so does Marvel Wiki then why did he go to Hell Kitchen and not use any of that new found power? I got lost on that.

One thing I really liked about Hudlin is getting other black superhero and super heroine into Black Panther series. It was great to see him partnered up with Luke Cage, Brother Voodoo, Blade and I believe the Falcon as well. Good way to get them some shine since they don't have their own series. Not saying Luke Cage Noir is nothing but we need more black super hero with their own series. I say Luke Cage and Falcon. Or bring back Power Man and Iron Fist.

Overall the Black Panther series is great and Hudlin did set it off so good on him.

#22 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@voodoo1971: Actually Priest did that first. He had Brother voodoo, Luke Cage, and Falcon along with some black villians during his run and he it was better.

#23 Posted by Mykhael (67 posts) - - Show Bio

@windcaster said:

Ambivalence is something I definitely feel about this man's
run. BP: Civil WAR trade was the first comic I had the courage to buy. I love
Shuri she can be more than just a supporting character. That Bantu/Wakandan rap at the intro of his TV
series was AWESOME! My two biggest
disappointments with him was the characters dialogue and change of continuity. The
way he handled the racial aspects of BP during his run came as borderline anti-white
where Preist was more pro-black. The way
he married Storm and T'chall was rushed. I remember Preist joked in an
interview about how he wanted to marry Storm and T'challa too, but Marvel said
no. Last but not least it got to the point where he and Storm had come off as
African-Americans instead of Africans. I get that he was trying to reach out to more black readers, but come on. Am I the only one who thinks Storm would never say
"real talk"?

THIS!^

#24 Posted by lukecharles777 (8 posts) - - Show Bio

Priest often complained that while he was writing BP he got no support . People complained about the upgrades he gave BP and his spying on the Avengers even though both seem totally in line with his character and training. BP credibility was hurt by Liss. Every Black writer complained about the fanboys reaction to BP they laughed at him because he had no powers.but once he was represented as an expert warrior hunter scientist and h2h with superhuman senses the complaining began. They took everything from him his wife, kingdom , and enhancements to make the Hudlin haters happy. They even complained when he went toe to toe with Doom they rooted for Doom over him! Hudlin portrayed a clever strong Tchalla but people complained that he was too Black. They didnt like him hanging with Cage and they didnt like him going up against anyone tough and winning. When Hudlin portrayed the realistic animosity that would be felt toward an African nation that had a strong military and vibranium he was called racist.

#25 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10545 posts) - - Show Bio

Priest often complained that while he was writing BP he got no support . People complained about the upgrades he gave BP and his spying on the Avengers even though both seem totally in line with his character and training. BP credibility was hurt by Liss. Every Black writer complained about the fanboys reaction to BP they laughed at him because he had no powers.but once he was represented as an expert warrior hunter scientist and h2h with superhuman senses the complaining began. They took everything from him his wife, kingdom , and enhancements to make the Hudlin haters happy. They even complained when he went toe to toe with Doom they rooted for Doom over him! Hudlin portrayed a clever strong Tchalla but people complained that he was too Black. They didnt like him hanging with Cage and they didnt like him going up against anyone tough and winning. When Hudlin portrayed the realistic animosity that would be felt toward an African nation that had a strong military and vibranium he was called racist.

I think that's explained a bit here

#26 Posted by lukecharles777 (8 posts) - - Show Bio

@nelomaxwell This is a great video that gets to the true matter. Batman and DD are shown doing impossible things all the time. This is especially crazy for Batman who has done this without the help of any enhancements at all just training. (Less training time than Panther and no super senses ) The Black Panther is a great character but comic books is a SMALL niche market right now and Black comic readers are even smaller. Im just glad for some of the great BP stories that have already been written and I will just hope for more. BP by his character description should be able to do thing that even well trained gifted humans cant do.

#27 Edited by daredevil21134 (11921 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukecharles777 said:

Priest often complained that while he was writing BP he got no support . People complained about the upgrades he gave BP and his spying on the Avengers even though both seem totally in line with his character and training. BP credibility was hurt by Liss. Every Black writer complained about the fanboys reaction to BP they laughed at him because he had no powers.but once he was represented as an expert warrior hunter scientist and h2h with superhuman senses the complaining began. They took everything from him his wife, kingdom , and enhancements to make the Hudlin haters happy. They even complained when he went toe to toe with Doom they rooted for Doom over him! Hudlin portrayed a clever strong Tchalla but people complained that he was too Black. They didnt like him hanging with Cage and they didnt like him going up against anyone tough and winning. When Hudlin portrayed the realistic animosity that would be felt toward an African nation that had a strong military and vibranium he was called racist.

Agreed/I actually like Hudlin's Black Panther

#28 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasn't a fan of Hudlin's run. Priest's run worked so well because it focused on BP being a king first and foremost (hence all the plots regarding politics, war, coups etc.), as well as portraying a likeable T'Challa who was a mix of nobility as well as being ruthless if the situation called for it. I also liked how his emotions were all restrained since he was a child as a result of his father's death and his duty as a king. The line where T'Challa's mother tells him it's alright to hate Killmonger, and T'Challa answers 'A king is above such things' really says a lot about him. Plus, the added tech also legitimized Wakanda as a superior nation, and I liked the additions to T'Challa's gear.

Priest's run had BP as more of a politician and thinker, while Hickman's recent work with the character has him like a mix of warrior-scientist. Hudlin's run was just...ech, I don't know, a step down. It was boring, and not very memorable, it felt kind of like a generic superhero book, if I'm being honest.

#29 Posted by Wolverine08 (42816 posts) - - Show Bio

I know this is off topic, but Jonathan Hickman needs to write a Black Panther solo.

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#30 Edited by lukecharles777 (8 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark I agree Hudlin was good at getting people to buy his book but Priest had some cool plot lines although for some they were confusing. The Everitt K Ross thing I did not like but he explained he did it in an attempt to not alienate white readers. Hudlin agitated white readers on purpose the way Floyd Mayweather plays the heel to get PPV. Preist had good stories with no sales and whites complained anyway.

#31 Edited by GrenadeFlow (1538 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I agree with this

I don't think Hudlin hurt his "Cred" comic fans just seem to hate T'Challa whoever writes him, even now that Hickman is writing him in New Avengers you will still see the same insults from 5 years ago

#32 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I agree with this

I don't think Hudlin hurt his "Cred" comic fans just seem to hate T'Challa whoever writes him, even now that Hickman is writing him in New Avengers you will still see the same insults from 5 years ago

Wait whuh? You're saying people hate BP no matter who his writer is? I don't think that's the case...especially with Priest's run and Hickman's run - which has introduced many to Panther's badassery.

#33 Posted by lukecharles777 (8 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark I dont know about Hickman but Priest complained about how the comic fans hated BP and did not like his tech upgrades. Plus despite all the praise no one ever bought Priest. People dislike Tchalla because he is smart and tough and cunning. Dwayne Mcduffie said it best in his video.

#34 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark I dont know about Hickman but Priest complained about how the comic fans hated BP and did not like his tech upgrades. Plus despite all the praise no one ever bought Priest. People dislike Tchalla because he is smart and tough and cunning. Dwayne Mcduffie said it best in his video.

I don't know about the time of its release...but Priest's run has been looked back upon fondly, and generally considered to be the best modern run about the character. I did hear about fans whining about the tech upgrades though.

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