Bring back Captain Marvel into prominence!

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#1 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

Did you know that in 2010 Captain Marvel turned 70 years old? No? I didn't either and wouldn't have guessed it because he was basically absent of comics that same year.
 
Captain Marvel is one of the classic golden age superheroes, he was in fact for awhile outselling and was more popular than Superman himself (and that was when Superman had just invented the genre). Plagued by legal issues since his days in Fawcett, to Marvel copyrighting the name in order to prevent DC from using it in a cover the champion of Shazam hasn't been on this level of popularity in decades.
 
Most of the stories featuring the character haven't even been printed in trade paperback, his most recent ongoing was just cancelled (though it was the best selling title of the johnny dc line, it will probably come back soon though) and worse of all Billy doesn't even have his powers anymore. Billy is one of those characters that deserve more than what has been given to them and whose status should change.
 
Over the years we've seen many writers basically beg for the character to give him justice and for some reason DC hasn't gone for it. Gail Simone, Mark Waid, Alan Moore (believe it or not), Alex Ross, Geoff Johns, etc.
 
Grant Morrison is featuring him in his Multiversity event (in the Thunderworld story with art by Frank Quitely) but as much as I love Morrison's work and as awesome as it will probably will, one one-shot isn't nearly enough. I want to see the one man who is Superman's equal return to the role he was always meant to be. I want the character who was the most popular in superheroes comics before legal issues came to have his own ongoing.
 
But even more than anything, I want to see stories worth of Earth's mightiest mortal. If you were given the task to return Captain Marvel into prominence how would you do it=

#2 Posted by PowerHerc (82628 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel deserves to be a top tier/A-list hero.   
DC has never tried to make him one and I suspect it's because they don't want to risk him becoming more popular than Superman.
#3 Edited by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

Poor CM

#4 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:
" Captain Marvel deserves to be a top tier/A-list hero.   DC has never tried to make him one and I suspect it's because they don't want to risk him becoming more popular than Superman. "
That pretty much sums it up!
#5 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio

I think DC are scared that Captain Marvel will become a greater hero than Superman.  That's why they never put too much backing behind Captain Marvel stories.

#6 Posted by Mercy_ (92674 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:
" Captain Marvel deserves to be a top tier/A-list hero.   DC has never tried to make him one and I suspect it's because they don't want to risk him becoming more popular than Superman. "
@Supreme Marvel said:
" I think DC are scared that Captain Marvel will become a greater hero than Superman.  That's why they never put too much backing behind Captain Marvel stories. "
Gotta agree.
Moderator
#7 Posted by Emperor Gonzo Noir (19714 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still pissed that they haven't collected Power of Shazam in trade yet 

#8 Posted by Valtot (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe its just cause hes not that popular in todays culture with a few but very loyal fans out there.
#9 Posted by Amegashita (3601 posts) - - Show Bio
  DC should sell the rights to Captain Marvel and his family to Alex Ross and Dynamite.  >.>  
 
@Valtot:
  There are quite a few unpopular characters on DC's line up and they still push them to the forefront despite fan outcries against, so popularity isn't that much of a factor. 
#10 Posted by neonheart098 (60 posts) - - Show Bio

Ya CM does deserve more attention....{.i mean at his peak he had more sales than superman}... DC BRING BACK CPT MARVEL :)

#11 Posted by Backflip (2262 posts) - - Show Bio

I adore Captain Marvel. I wish he'd get more facetime.

#12 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

Did you know (I learnt of this just yesterday) that after Infinite Crisis instead of the status quo that we got for Captain Marvel and his supporting cast we would have had a maxiseries (followed by an ongoing if sales were good enough) named "Say my name...Shazam" which would have been co-written by Johns AND Ross and would even have half of the art pages done by Ross.
 
They would have had Billy going against people that after Shazam's death would have gained fractions of his powers by chance and were using it for evil purposes, in the end of the series Billy would have met a man who was actually using them for good and let him stay with his powers, becoming Vulcan who would be the newest member of the Marvel family (and the first african american one). No Freddy as Captain Marvel, no evil Mary Marvel and most importantly.....NO Billy as the babysitter of a big rock!
 
No

#13 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio

I would prefer just Captain Marvel and not have the rest of the family.  Well maybe Captain Marvel and Shazam.

#14 Posted by tensor (4086 posts) - - Show Bio

They need to show more of his powers they hold him back too much we all know he is great but they need better writing an more  villains for him black adam is a classic but you cannot   just have 1  villain if you are going push it an he needs to be in JLA  like give him a good run as a team member an they should lets us see some more magic from him so that way ppl won't have to see him as a more superman type character but his own doing different things

#15 Posted by ComicMan24 (147042 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nighthunter: Really? That sounded nice. I would like to see an ongoing series with Captain Marvel. I think he has what it takes to support it.
#16 Posted by doordoor123 (3721 posts) - - Show Bio

He was also an original JLA member. And all of the original JLA members are doing big things nowadays.

#17 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio
@Supreme Marvel said:
" I would prefer just Captain Marvel and not have the rest of the family.  Well maybe Captain Marvel and Shazam. "
not even Tawny? He is the coolest character there and no I ain't kidding or being sarcastic lol
 
Maybe what we need is an Earth-5 ongoing series. Marvel has been too screwed up in the main universe
#18 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicMan24 said:
" @Nighthunter: Really? That sounded nice. I would like to see an ongoing series with Captain Marvel. I think he has what it takes to support it. "
yup, DC instead decided to go with Winnick's The trials of Shazam which I haven't read mainly because outside of the art I don't hear pretty things lol
#19 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nighthunter said:
" @ComicMan24 said:
" @Nighthunter: Really? That sounded nice. I would like to see an ongoing series with Captain Marvel. I think he has what it takes to support it. "
yup, DC instead decided to go with Winnick's The trials of Shazam which I haven't read mainly because outside of the art I don't hear pretty things lol "
The only good thing of that series was the 1st issue which was about Billy.
 
Tawny died in FC.
#20 Posted by ComicMan24 (147042 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nighthunter said:
" @ComicMan24 said:
" @Nighthunter: Really? That sounded nice. I would like to see an ongoing series with Captain Marvel. I think he has what it takes to support it. "
yup, DC instead decided to go with Winnick's The trials of Shazam which I haven't read mainly because outside of the art I don't hear pretty things lol "
Haven't read it either.
 
@Supreme Marvel said:
" @Nighthunter said:
" @ComicMan24 said:
" @Nighthunter: Really? That sounded nice. I would like to see an ongoing series with Captain Marvel. I think he has what it takes to support it. "
yup, DC instead decided to go with Winnick's The trials of Shazam which I haven't read mainly because outside of the art I don't hear pretty things lol "
The only good thing of that series was the 1st issue which was about Billy.  Tawny died in FC. "

FC as in Final Crisis? He didn't die there IIRC.
#21 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, he did.  If I was on my computer I could show you the scan.

#22 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio

I think they should just hired me for writing it if they are going with a nobody.  I'd write crazy stuff and show more abilities Marvel should have with all those Gods giving him power. 
 
The Captain Marvel situation reminds me of Superman.
 
Captain Marvel - Superman
Evil Mary Marvel - Evil Supergirl

#23 Posted by ComicMan24 (147042 posts) - - Show Bio
@Supreme Marvel: The last I remember from Tawny is where he kills Kalibak in FC 06. Unless it happens in some other book which I haven't read. 
 

#24 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah Tawny is alive, the one that dies is Kalibak in his tiger body

#25 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I must have got mixed up and looked at the guy on the floor.
 
Also, I'd show how Marvel could hit intangible people and why he can't be mind controlled.

#26 Posted by ComicMan24 (147042 posts) - - Show Bio
@Supreme Marvel said:
" Yeah, I must have got mixed up and looked at the guy on the floor.  Also, I'd show how Marvel could hit intangible people and why he can't be mind controlled. "
I think he cannot be mind controlled because of the Wisdom of Solomon, right? Also do you have any example where he is hitting someone intangible? Didn't know he could that.
#27 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio
@Supreme Marvel said:
" Yeah, I must have got mixed up and looked at the guy on the floor.  Also, I'd show how Marvel could hit intangible people and why he can't be mind controlled. "
really? Then Mr. Mind just seems obsolete now.... -.-
#28 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicMan24 said:

" @Supreme Marvel said:

" Yeah, I must have got mixed up and looked at the guy on the floor.  Also, I'd show how Marvel could hit intangible people and why he can't be mind controlled. "
I think he cannot be mind controlled because of the Wisdom of Solomon, right? Also do you have any example where he is hitting someone intangible? Didn't know he could that. "
Yeah, the Wisdom of Solomon was the answer for that.
   
 @Nighthunter said:

" @Supreme Marvel said:

" Yeah, I must have got mixed up and looked at the guy on the floor.  Also, I'd show how Marvel could hit intangible people and why he can't be mind controlled. "
really? Then Mr. Mind just seems obsolete now.... -.- "
Not, really he can still mind control Billy.
 
And the intangible thing, he says Shazam while in the way of that intangible person.
 
I.E. MM is intangible above Marvel, Marvel says Shazam, the lightning bolt moves through MM, being magic effects him.
Anyone like??
#29 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio

I got the idea of the mind control thing from Superman: Sacrifice when Lord tried to take over WW but couldn't because the wisdom of the gods.

#30 Posted by ComicMan24 (147042 posts) - - Show Bio
@Supreme Marvel: Both theories seem very plausible to me. I would like to see them in paper.
#31 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicMan24 said:
" @Supreme Marvel: Both theories seem very plausible to me. I would like to see them in paper. "
I guess the closest to it was in Justice when Marvel went into an uncontrollable Barry Allen running fast as he could, so his molecules were vibrating so fast he was intangible, he Shazamed and then the bolt sent Barry flying and Superman caught them both.
#32 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

Justice was awesome

#33 Posted by ComicMan24 (147042 posts) - - Show Bio
@Supreme Marvel: I see. Interesting.
#34 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nighthunter said:
" Justice was awesome "
One of the only times I've liked Aquaman.
#35 Posted by ComicMan24 (147042 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't read it but I want to.

#36 Posted by Demas (209 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem with Billy is that his essential premise is the child-man dichotomy and the current framers of the DCU struggle mightily with writing children sustainably.
 
The current writers of the DCU essentially push everyone into early adulthood (ie sexually active Superboy) and keep them there because that's all they know how to do.  That means children can appear for a bit, but afterwards must be aged, killed, or exiled.  Lian Harper (killed), Mon-El (first appearing as a childhood friend around Clark-Superboy's age, but now entirely adult), Bart Allen (matured into Kid Flash, aged into Flash, killed, and brought back younger but still older than his debut), Tim Drake and Cassandra Cain (used to be drawn slight and as children, now fully adult), the West twins artificially aged then Jai depowered and Irey sidelined, Black Canary's child Sin exiled, Clark and Lois adopted son Chris exiled, and the list goes on and on.
 
You might claim Damien is an exception but he's only just been introduced to the books some 4 years ago, debuted at supposedly 10 years old, and is already making a play for the TEEN Titans accelerating his working age bracket by some 4-9 years... and given that the tenure of "child Robin" has been decreasing exponentially... it wouldn't at all be surprising if Damien was aged, replaced, killed, or retired in less than another 5 years.
 
What this means for Billy Batson is that so long as this style of writing is in play, he can't remain a child in the DCU... his contemporaries will always start to grow up around him (heck, Mary Marvel already is) and so you're left with a few options which all sort of undermine the concept of Captain Marvel: 1. Age Billy; 2. Replace Billy; 3. Separate Billy; or 4. Afflict Billy.  The first one is obvious and, when done, seriously undermines the appeal of the character (aging Billy is almost as bad as giving Batman superpowers).  The second was tried and apparently didn't succeed.  The third runs contrary to what you want him to be doing in the DCU (putting him in his own universe so that the ages of others are irrelevant).  The fourth is to make Billy eternally a child by some in-story mechanism but that undermines his "everyman" attribute as a child and turns him into Gary Coleman.
 
There is, of course, a fifth alternative... which is to have writers who can handle maintaining children in the DCU and shaping the entire DCU timeline around Billy... but that's completely absurd.  Even if you did that, there's a serious question of whether that level of stasis is good for modern comic book storytelling.  Which suggests, unfortunately, that Captain Marvel as a concept is broken in the new age of modern storytelling with long spanning event-based (thus time passing) continuity.  He's allowed to be used sparingly, and show up and make big splashes, but he can't stick around as a prominent figure because his concept undermines everything around him.  It has nothing to do with supplanting Superman, it has everything to do with the essential element that Billy be a child.

#37 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio

Billy is 15 so there is no need to mature him.  He's already mature.  And he's had a relationship with Stargirl.  
 
Writers have said, they don't get the full backing of the DC head offices.  Many people can handle the situation.  It just requires a good writers to do great with him.  Like Grant Morrison did him well in Superman Beyond.
 
And many people like the fact that a child ( 15) can say a magic word and become god-like.

#38 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

I still can't believe DC has just forgotten about Billy and Mary.

#39 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
"I still can't believe DC has just forgotten about Billy and Mary. "

Apparently there bringing them back
#40 Posted by ComicMan24 (147042 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom: There will be an one-shot that will deal with them.
#41 Posted by Amegashita (3601 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nighthunter said:
"Did you know (I learnt of this just yesterday) that after Infinite Crisis instead of the status quo that we got for Captain Marvel and his supporting cast we would have had a maxiseries (followed by an ongoing if sales were good enough) named "Say my name...Shazam" which would have been co-written by Johns AND Ross and would even have half of the art pages done by Ross.  They would have had Billy going against people that after Shazam's death would have gained fractions of his powers by chance and were using it for evil purposes, in the end of the series Billy would have met a man who was actually using them for good and let him stay with his powers, becoming Vulcan who would be the newest member of the Marvel family (and the first african american one). No Freddy as Captain Marvel, no evil Mary Marvel and most importantly.....NO Billy as the babysitter of a big rock! No "
  Yup, I knew this.  After I heard this I stopped reading DC.
#42 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
Captain Marvel is underrated
#43 Posted by AssertingValor (5386 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel is better than Superman.  HE should be the 4 th leg in the DC 3
#44 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicMan24 said:
" @AtPhantom: There will be an one-shot that will deal with them. "
After two freaking years, it's about time.
#45 Posted by Demas (209 posts) - - Show Bio
@Supreme Marvel said:
" Billy is 15 so there is no need to mature him.  He's already mature.  And he's had a relationship with Stargirl.  
 
Writers have said, they don't get the full backing of the DC head offices.  Many people can handle the situation.  It just requires a good writers to do great with him.  Like Grant Morrison did him well in Superman Beyond.
 
And many people like the fact that a child ( 15) can say a magic word and become god-like. "
You're missing the point.  You can't mature him.  The essential concept of Captain Marvel is that Billy is a child so Billy must be stuck at 15.  Stargirl is going to move on, have boyfriends, go to college, have sex, etc. to match her Teen Titan peers, but Billy as a concept isn't allowed to go there without undermining the essential point of being Captain Marvel.  The current DC isn't capable of writing a continual child in the DCU.  Name a single example that hasn't been killed, aged, retired, or sidelined in some fashion.
 
Superman Beyond is not a good example because that's a two-issue mini, hardly a sustained presence.  In order to be prominent you need to be a figure in the DCU over time and Billy just can't do that because of the way the DCU is written.
 
If you want Billy to rise to "prominence" temporarily that's fine... he can have a happy window as the child-man-god being like Dick was once a Robin... but because of that essential age factor he will never be as significant as the big league characters with the current style of storytelling.
#46 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11263 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
" @ComicMan24 said:
" @AtPhantom: There will be an one-shot that will deal with them. "
After two freaking years, it's about time. "
In two years I could have made them bigger than Green Lantern Comics.
#47 Posted by ComicMan24 (147042 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
" @ComicMan24 said:
" @AtPhantom: There will be an one-shot that will deal with them. "
After two freaking years, it's about time. "
I agree on that. I think it will be released this January. Not sure. Supreme Marvel posted a link for this in the first page.
#48 Posted by ComicMan24 (147042 posts) - - Show Bio

What surprises that is that while Billy didn't make many appearances in the last few years, Black Adam on the other hand rose in prominence.

#49 Posted by Demas (209 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicMan24 said:
" What surprises that is that while Billy didn't make many appearances in the last few years, Black Adam on the other hand rose in prominence. "
Which is fine, because Black Adam in either incarnation is an adult.  Childhood has nothing to do with his core character whereas it's everything to Billy- the singular defining characteristic that makes his mythos unique from other flying super-bricks.  The problem is that childhood isn't sustainable in the DCU.
#50 Posted by Valtot (4502 posts) - - Show Bio
@Demas said:
" @Supreme Marvel said:
" Billy is 15 so there is no need to mature him.  He's already mature.  And he's had a relationship with Stargirl.  
 
Writers have said, they don't get the full backing of the DC head offices.  Many people can handle the situation.  It just requires a good writers to do great with him.  Like Grant Morrison did him well in Superman Beyond.
 
And many people like the fact that a child ( 15) can say a magic word and become god-like. "
You're missing the point.  You can't mature him.  The essential concept of Captain Marvel is that Billy is a child so Billy must be stuck at 15.  Stargirl is going to move on, have boyfriends, go to college, have sex, etc. to match her Teen Titan peers, but Billy as a concept isn't allowed to go there without undermining the essential point of being Captain Marvel.  The current DC isn't capable of writing a continual child in the DCU.  Name a single example that hasn't been killed, aged, retired, or sidelined in some fashion.
 
Superman Beyond is not a good example because that's a two-issue mini, hardly a sustained presence.  In order to be prominent you need to be a figure in the DCU over time and Billy just can't do that because of the way the DCU is written.
 
If you want Billy to rise to "prominence" temporarily that's fine... he can have a happy window as the child-man-god being like Dick was once a Robin... but because of that essential age factor he will never be as significant as the big league characters with the current style of storytelling."

wow so true, they could however do a reboot of captain marvel make him older and a little cooler instead of a super boy scout whos actually a boy

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