Is Pre-Retcon Beyonder more powerful than The One Above All?

#1 Edited by firewrkninja (362 posts) - - Show Bio

on TOAA's page it says that he is the most powerful being in the marvel multiverse.
on Beyonder's page it says he is over a million times more powerful than the entire multiverse.
is TOAA's name not true? should he be called The One Above All Except for Beyonder? or maybe The One Above Almost All?

#2 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope...TOAA is the writer.

#3 Posted by ___Living_Tribunal_22__ (388 posts) - - Show Bio


 

Nope...TOAA is the writer. 

 

We are talking about the character, not Stan Lee.

#4 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

The current Beyonder is way weakened and clearly TOAA is most definitely The One Above All. Now Pre-Retcon Beyonder...its tough to say.  It would be a toss-up I say, because frankly I have come to conclude that the three most powerful beings ever made in comics are the PRB, TOAA, and the DC Multiverse's Overmonitor/Monitor-Prime. 

#5 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123 said:
that
#7 Posted by SC (13307 posts) - - Show Bio
@___Living_Tribunal_22__ said:


 

Nope...TOAA is the writer. 

 

We are talking about the character, not Stan Lee.

 
The character is a meta character. That means many will reference either Stan or Jack as this (a part of this) character, this character also representing the will of the writers in charge. (at their discretion) 
Moderator
#8 Posted by Enemybird (3278 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the idea that the TOAA is the creator of the comics and he controls everything that happens within the comics.He in essence controls the "free will" of all characters including beyonder. You could argue that beyonder displayed equals feats power. But the reason he has this power in the first place it because of TOAA. If beyonder created his own comics then it would be a different story XD

#9 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

tell me when beyonder punches the comic writers in the face

#10 Posted by majestic99 (8637 posts) - - Show Bio

NO

#11 Posted by Herokiller12344 (999 posts) - - Show Bio

The dudes name is The One ABOVE ALL, Even one from Beyond counts as All.

#12 Posted by majestic99 (8637 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64 said:

Nope...TOAA is the writer.
#13 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@firewrkninja said:

on TOAA's page it says that he is the most powerful being in the marvel multiverse.
on Beyonder's page it says he is over a million times more powerful than the entire multiverse. is TOAA's name not true? should he be called The One Above All Except for Beyonder? or maybe The One Above Almost All?

TOAA's name means the being who's above everything else. that's a thing everybody know. but if we apply the same logic, what is the meaning of Beyonder? the Beyonder means the being beyond everything else. so we can't say TOAA is stronger than Beyonder because of his name. before i present my idea, let's clarify few things :

Firstly, PR Beyonder was never defeated in combat, no one can defeat him. what happened in the last issue of Secret Wars 2 is not a defeat.

2nd : Living Tribunal isn't stronger than PR Beyonder who say that is either a delusive or an ignorant. PR Beyonder is stronger than all Marvel universe and its beings combined by far.

3rd. PR Beyonder was stated clearly to be omnipotent in almost every issue of Secret Wars 1 & 2, so you can't deny it, and he was controling the existence of all Marvel Universe by merely his imagination, no one in the moderne comics is witt such power except TOAA.

4th. who said that PR Molecule Man was able the stand up to him,is also wrong!! because Beyonder was limiting his powers, and he stated that he didn't want to hurt him, and also Molecule Man stated himself that the infinite difference in power between him and Beyonder is like the infinite difference between Captain America and Molecule Man. can you imagine that Captain America could stand up to Molecule Man?? it would be shamefully ridiculous to say yes.

5th. PR Beyonder was TOAA before TOAA was established, there was no character of TOAA before or at the time of Secret Wars 1 & 2.

6th. Beyonder was TOAA before creation or with more precise words, he was God before genesis, as the writer and ex Head of Marvel HQ Jim shooter said.

7th. according to Stan Lee PR Beyonder was TOAA of his own actuality, the purpose of his original existence was to explain the existence of the other comic companies and their own universal laws and structure with their own supreme beings.

So what is the conclusion, the PR Beyonder is the God of an other reality beyond Marvel Universe, just like DC Universe, Image Universe, Shueisha Universe, Wildstorm Universe. which make him pretty likely as omnipotent as TOAA, Presence, and Man of Miracles.

so The One Above All is above all in Marvel Universe, but Beyonder is not part of Marvel Universe so the rule is not applied here, it's like saying The One Above All is above everything meaning above Presence, and above Man of Miracles, which it makes no sense, because Presence and Man of Miracles are not part of Marvel Universe, the rule is not applied.

#14 Posted by GhettoSwag (150 posts) - - Show Bio

TOAA IS ABOVE ALL

#15 Edited by muhabba (301 posts) - - Show Bio

When did they ret-con The Beyonder?

#16 Posted by DH69 (4258 posts) - - Show Bio

Hahahahaha no the beyonders current power level is pathetic compaired to his original abilities, but even on his best day he's still an amoeba compared to TOAA

#17 Edited by Herokiller12344 (999 posts) - - Show Bio

There are way too many characters that carry the title and power of God up high. The Beyonder is the perfect example of overdoing it, I get that he needs to be powerful, but being "1000x the entirety of the all the energy in the multiverse" is just...no. That is just too much.

#18 Posted by njones5 (234 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_beyonder: your a beyonder lover toaa owns marvel he could kill them all with a blink of an eye

#19 Posted by FANNYBUSTER (129 posts) - - Show Bio

Obviously, TOAA

#20 Posted by OfficialRikudouSennin (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@firewrkninja said:

on TOAA's page it says that he is the most powerful being in the marvel multiverse.
on Beyonder's page it says he is over a million times more powerful than the entire multiverse. is TOAA's name not true? should he be called The One Above All Except for Beyonder? or maybe The One Above Almost All?

TOAA's name means the being who's above everything else. that's a thing everybody know. but if we apply the same logic, what is the meaning of Beyonder? the Beyonder means the being beyond everything else. so we can't say TOAA is stronger than Beyonder because of his name. before i present my idea, let's clarify few things :

Firstly, PR Beyonder was never defeated in combat, no one can defeat him. what happened in the last issue of Secret Wars 2 is not a defeat.

2nd : Living Tribunal isn't stronger than PR Beyonder who say that is either a delusive or an ignorant. PR Beyonder is stronger than all Marvel universe and its beings combined by far.

3rd. PR Beyonder was stated clearly to be omnipotent in almost every issue of Secret Wars 1 & 2, so you can't deny it, and he was controling the existence of all Marvel Universe by merely his imagination, no one in the moderne comics is witt such power except TOAA.

4th. who said that PR Molecule Man was able the stand up to him,is also wrong!! because Beyonder was limiting his powers, and he stated that he didn't want to hurt him, and also Molecule Man stated himself that the infinite difference in power between him and Beyonder is like the infinite difference between Captain America and Molecule Man. can you imagine that Captain America could stand up to Molecule Man?? it would be shamefully ridiculous to say yes.

5th. PR Beyonder was TOAA before TOAA was established, there was no character of TOAA before or at the time of Secret Wars 1 & 2.

6th. Beyonder was TOAA before creation or with more precise words, he was God before genesis, as the writer and ex Head of Marvel HQ Jim shooter said.

7th. according to Stan Lee PR Beyonder was TOAA of his own actuality, the purpose of his original existence was to explain the existence of the other comic companies and their own universal laws and structure with their own supreme beings.

So what is the conclusion, the PR Beyonder is the God of an other reality beyond Marvel Universe, just like DC Universe, Image Universe, Shueisha Universe, Wildstorm Universe. which make him pretty likely as omnipotent as TOAA, Presence, and Man of Miracles.

so The One Above All is above all in Marvel Universe, but Beyonder is not part of Marvel Universe so the rule is not applied here, it's like saying The One Above All is above everything meaning above Presence, and above Man of Miracles, which it makes no sense, because Presence and Man of Miracles are not part of Marvel Universe, the rule is not applied.

Beyonder>TOAA all day bro

#21 Edited by superboyprimeonejillion (22 posts) - - Show Bio

@njones5: You don't seem to understand what he's saying. The Beyonder isn't just a regular omnipotent,, he's beyond the marvel universe. On that note, everyone please stop using names as a measurement of power. Thank you. Anyways, like the_mighty_beyonder said, The Beyonder is OUTSIDE of Marvel. Is TOAA above The Presence, DC's ultimate God? No, he's not, it's a stalemate. This applies to the Beyonder as well, he was published under Marvel's comics, but he's not a Marvel entity. He's from the Beyond. He was made to be the supreme God above all things. This is proven when the Beyonder explains the Beyond, and how the Marvel Universe is similar to just a measly droplet of water in an ocean of multiverses in the realm of Beyond, which is the Beyonder himself. Ask yourself who's more powerful, the ruler of a sea, or the ruler of an ocean?

#22 Posted by lol (5388 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by thor123 (59 posts) - - Show Bio

@officialrikudousennin: Hey on the wiki website check the power grid TOAA has everything 7 but The beyonder has everything 7 except his fighting skills are 6 and here is the link for TOAA http://marvel.wikia.com/One-Above-All_(Multiverse) and for the beyonder http://marvel.wikia.com/Beyonder_(Earth-616)

#24 Posted by morgrim (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

Theoreticaly speaking yes Pre Retcon Beyonder is above TOAA simply because TOAA is the most powerful being in the marvel universe, and PRB is 1 million times more powerful than the collective Marvel U including TOAA

#25 Posted by Lunarstorm (34 posts) - - Show Bio

Burn this page now. Beyonder is just as impressive to TOAA as an ant is to us. Beyonder is too stupid and to unaware of his own existence. He was a failed lab experiment of TOAA and ended up in the basement. TOAA is omniscience omnipotent omnipresent etc TOAA is Omniverse while Beyonder is and idiot with multiversal powers.

#26 Posted by Freddy_Blairer (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@firewrkninja:

He's name is The One Above ALL and that "ALL" includes The Beyonder. Yeap! PRB was so powerful but he wasn't still at TOAA's level. Nothing and NO ONE is more powerful than TOAA

#27 Edited by Jmarshmallow (10131 posts) - - Show Bio

Not even close lol.

Jmarshmallow

Online
#29 Edited by ANNS (1 posts) - - Show Bio

...

#30 Edited by AANS (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Hi.

I'm a huge fan of Beyonder, but there's no any single chance for him to be the one.

Actually, Beyonder is not even close to Him. Because nobody is. (whether TOAA is really what Marvel said He is).

Let's try to understand things here.

TOAA is not only God of this Universe. He is God almighty of multi-universe; if there is a different universe somewhere he is God there.

I tried to search for lists with the mightiest characters ever made. Here are some:

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/godzilla07/lists/top-65-strongest-marvel-characters/40294/

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/elderfingolfin/lists/the-most-powerful-heroes-and-villains-in-marvel/38385/

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/kagetaicho/lists/100-most-powerful-marvel-characters/10144/

http://imgur.com/gallery/VcbmR

http://imgur.com/gallery/XSuF8

http://list25.com/25-powerful-comic-book-beings-created/2/

http://marvel.wikia.com/User_blog:Whitekey/My_ranking_of_the_most_powerful_Marvel_beings_%28A_personal_list%29--Version_1

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-forum/top-15-most-powerful-marvel-characters-124892/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKePtoC4lQU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK7P0ZNRAuY

http://whatculture.com/comics/25-powerful-cosmic-entities-marvel-comics.php/12

I never saw a single list where Beyonder is ahead of TOAA.

All the lists I saw place TOAA in first place.

Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gods_%28Marvel_Comics%29

Here, in this awesome webite says:

The One Above All is the Supreme Being of Marvel...

http://www.comicvine.com/one-above-all/4005-44473/

One Bove All is the most powerful being in the marvel multiverse. He alone possesses greater power than the living tribunal and Beyonder. He is believed to represent the creators of marvel (Jack Kirby and Stan Lee) And while he is technically another entity, he has taken the form of Jack Kirby to demonstrate what he really is which is the grand authority in the marvel universe.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/kagetaicho/lists/100-most-powerful-marvel-characters/10144/

Look here:

http://marvel.wikia.com/One-Above-All_%28Multiverse%29

Here says: "Apparently responsible for the existence of all life in the Multiuniverse and possibly beyond, the One-Above-All is the master and sole superior of the cosmic overseer and arbitrator known as the Living Tribunal."

http://marvel.wikia.com/Beyonder_%28Earth-616%29

Here says: The Beyonder is one of the most powerful beings of the mainstream universe, and is still one of its mysteries.

TOAA is God of beyond universes...

Marvel Official Handbook places TOAA as the supreme being of the whole Marvel reality.

TOAA is God creator of OMNI-UNIVERSE . Beyonder is not creator.... There is only one!

TOAA is said as the ONLY ONE Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient.

Nobody else can have this power.

These qualities put TOAA simply as the only being who is truly invincible.

Omnipotent means ALL THE POWER. If anyone else has any power is because an omnipotent being has allowed it.

Beyonder, as I know, lost much of his power; this would never happen if he was Omnipotent as TOAA.

I'm a Beyonder fan, but I'm a huge fan of TOAA as well and he is what his name says (The one ABOVE ALL)!

But relax, TOAA doesn't fight anyway. He is God. He doesn't need it.

TOAA has no enemies. Because God has no enemies, God has only his creation.

I confess I didn't understand Fantastic Four #319 where Kubk defeats Beyonder in his prime... I once more say I didn't understand that fight, but that seemed to me as Kubik's victory.

And Beyonder has to deal with Living Tribunal before TOAA.

Some mentions about TOAA:

During an encounter with the Sorcerer Supreme Doctor Strange, the cosmic entity Eternity tells Strange: "I and my brother, Death, comprise all of your reality, mystic! Neither he nor I are God, for God rules all realities!"

Doctor Strange: Master of the Mystic Arts vol. 2, #13.

The Cosmic Cube Kubik on a tour of reality displaying various higher powers to Kosmos, upon meeting the Tribunal, tells her that while it is the most supreme power which can be comprehended, "Logic would indicate that the Tribunal itself is but another servant, but of what none dare imagine."

Fantastic Four Annual #23 (Pg. 61)

In the aftermath of the events of Infinity Gauntlet, the Living Tribunal easily undoes all the destruction an enraged Adam Warlock wreaks at his Trial, claiming that, "I represent forces that dwarf even your might. My authority comes from on High."

Warlock and the Infinity Watch #1 (Pg. 9)

When the Protégé claims to the Living Tribunal and other cosmic entities that he is the most powerful being that ever was, and that he will surpass them all and move up, the Tribunal counters, "Impossible! There is only one above the Living Tribunal!" Later, after the Protégé declares himself the One-Above-All in an attempt to seize ultimate power, the Tribunal absorbs the Protégé into itself, proclaiming, "Your actions and intentions are inexcusable! Make your peace! May the One-Above-All forgive you!"

Guardians of the Galaxy #47 - 50

When a bartender asks the demon Mephisto whether the Living Tribunal, having created the Infinite Embassy, was actually "God", Mephisto responds, "No, he's not God. He's just the biggest kid in all the playgrounds (Universes). And if he knows the Principal, he's not exactly chatty about it."

Journey into Mystery #627

When the pregnant Susan Storm feared for her husband's possible death at the hands of the "all-powerful" Silver Surfer, Uatu the Watcher tells her that there is only one being that is truly "all-powerful", and that "His only weapon...is love!"

Fantastic Four #72 (Pg. 13)

TOAA is God. Almighty CREATOR. Omnipotent. Unique! The Only One!

Beyonder is exposed as one among His creatures in Mighty Thor Annual #14.

Beyonder is absolutely awesome! I love him!

Beyonder seems to me as he will become like a Messiah from TOAA…

I really love both; but TOAA is the ultimate being!

#31 Edited by AANS (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Trying to compare Beyonder with TOAA is like trying to compare an Angel with God...

Angels are powerful, but God is God!

Angels rebel sometimes, exactly when they think they are God.

And they receive the proper punishment for such blasphemy...

That's how Satan was born...

Please guys, stop overrating Beyonder; do you want him to become a demon?

;)

#32 Posted by BEYONDERGOD (1391 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-Retcon Beyonder = TOAA

Post-Retcon Beyonders<TOAA

#33 Edited by lulun55 (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys I know that PR Beyonder is omnipotent but please read my concerns here:

1) If Post Retcon Beyonder is millions of times stronger than the Marvel multiverse and omnipotent, then why was he weakened after using a portion of his power for defeating death which is a part in the Marvel universe created by TOAA. This implies that PRBeyonder was losing some of his power just to defeat a creation of TOAA. Then you can imagine how he will fare if he fights with its creator.

2) I know PR Beyonder is from the beyond reality, and not regarding the above issue. We all know that his emotions get the better of him while TOAA is also omniscient. Therefore PR Beyonder cannot be called a True God or The One Above All...

3) I think Marvel wants us to know that TOAA is the supreme being of Marvel (not the Marvel universe).

#34 Posted by BEYONDERGOD (1391 posts) - - Show Bio

@lulun55 said:

Guys I know that PR Beyonder is omnipotent but please read my concerns here:

1) If Post Retcon Beyonder is millions of times stronger than the Marvel multiverse and omnipotent, then why was he weakened after using a portion of his power for defeating death which is a part in the Marvel universe created by TOAA. This implies that PRBeyonder was losing some of his power just to defeat a creation of TOAA. Then you can imagine how he will fare if he fights with its creator.

2) I know PR Beyonder is from the beyond reality, and not regarding the above issue. We all know that his emotions get the better of him while TOAA is also omniscient. Therefore PR Beyonder cannot be called a True God or The One Above All...

3) I think Marvel wants us to know that TOAA is the supreme being of Marvel (not the Marvel universe).

None of that is even right they retcon him because jim shooter left and the director got pissed and etc then marvel wanted a true god so Beyonder is TOAA like stan lee stated before.

#35 Posted by lulun55 (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats true but.. we are arguing from the standpoint of scans.... Even though I love pre retcon beyonder however at the end of the day even if I concede that he is omnipotent and that jim shooter left( A big mistake), I don't think PR Beyonder would fit the supreme being because of mental curiosity or wonder. I think as the most supreme being, he should not only be omnipotent but also omniscient. But as it is, even others have taken advantage of his mental state of curiosity and wonder.

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