Batman can kill Superman because he's Batman.

He is. Their struggle is more a philosophical one than a battle of might. Lex knows that the moment Superman wants to end it, he could effortlessly.

I was showcasing make believe people in made up situations. Would anyone ever want to read a story like this where Clark is so out of character? Nope, of course not. I certainly wouldn't. But it doesn't take away from what I stated in my first post:

I don't believe that we are in disagreement on this statement. Everything else I wrote are just some ways off the top of my head that it could be written. Mind you, I also said that none of this is actually likely because Superman is better than this.

I completely agree.

@deathpoolthet1000: *bows*

You just explain the fact Batman is the guy that breaks all the limits vs the man that has no limits.

Its the way the write them and you explain why this fight will always end one way.

I bow to you sir.

@wildvine:

Superman's intellect is very, very inconstantly portrayed. He can read and absorb information from textbooks in minutes, and yet other times gets outsmarted by low level criminals or relies on Bruce to solve something.

Kryptonite is as common as it needs to be for the plot. I'm not sure how prevalent it is in the New 52.

Yes, this argument boils down to with prep. Because when Bane had his post about how it wouldn't be possible under any circumstances, I wanted to show why it could be.

How does X-ray trump disguises?

I don't know how common it is, but it was common enough that it was accessible when needed.

Summary, is there are numerous ways for Bruce to take Clark down with prep.

@edgeofreason: morals off, Bruce with no prep, Clark wins, absolutely.

@logy5000: Clark would never throw the moon into the earth to kill one person, evil or not.

He's the godamn batman.

@muyjingo: Like I said, anyone can beat Supes with that kind of prep. Tenderhart the carebear could with that prep.

@wildvine: It's not overly extensive prep. The point of my post was just to show that Bruce's skills allow him to hide and that there is technology to both hide from Superman, hinder him and counter some of his powers.

Using a combination of these methods, there is no reason a story could not be written with Bruce realistically beating Superman, without making Superman look foolish.

@muyjingo: It could be extensive depending on the availability of Kryptonite and nano technology, actually, as neither is super common as I said. Therefore Superman mostly loses do to bad writing/PIS.

Why are you claiming kryptonite/nano tech is not very common? I don't think availability has really been established N52. Pre N52, nano tech was fairly common, and kryptonite varied as needed.

I don't think relying on either of these plot devices would be bad writing or PIS.

Stop using The Dark Knight Returns, its a philosophical fight, Batman beats Superman under moral, ethic and ideological reasons.

Also its obvious Clark would had won since his power would had back at some point, Bruce had to find a way to leave his message to Clark before he go into full power Superman.

It wasnt a fist fight.

@muyjingo: The point is that he could.

@logy5000: Sure, and Bruce could lace the atmosphere with Kryptonite, not giving him a chance.

@muyjingo: And Clark would hear it before Bruce got the chance.

The never ending debate continues...

And my underware could become a master mind and take over the world.

But that isnt happening.

Superman definitely has a superior mind over Batman.

@silverpool: He just never seems to use it.

@logy5000: Funny, he didn't in Doomed.

Well I've always thought Batman could beat Superman. In my copy of Last Son, Lex Luthor kills a kryptonian with a kryptonite gun blast through the head. Lex has no super-powers, so why couldn't Batman, who also has no super-powers beat Superman given the right circumstances. Having said that you'd give Superman 9/10 majority in normal circumstances!

@bezza: Yeah, Superman get's the majority obviously.

There are people who think Batman has no chance no matter what he does...it's that thought process I don't understand. Within the world of the DCU, there are numerous options available to him.

Meh could go either or. It is a comic after all. Stranger things have happened

Absolutely. Superman has two fundamental weaknesses, plus super-hearing, which could be attacked via sonics....There is no reason why Batman couldn't attack Superman using these, as Lex Luthor has done countless times before. People just have an issue coz its Batman.

And that's exactly the point I addressed earlier. The writers always seem to ignore that Clark can hear everything on the planet just so that Bruce can have a way to win.

Well, no. It wouldn't be just so Bruce could win. It is because it is ridiculous for Superman to be that powerful.

There seems to be a vast difference between Superman's technical powers and his actually, commonly observed powers.

That power alone, of being able to hear everything on the planet is rarely used. If he employed it all the time he wouldn't have trouble finding people and would always know of any plan against him. It would limit the stories that are able to be told.

Honestly, when was the last time that power was used or seen? It is far easier to give numerous examples of times it could have been used, but for some reason wasn't.

Point being, if such a power was not used in a story of Batman defeating Superman, it would be in line with most Superman stories. Which is fine by me.

Oh the irony.

Don't know if it's plausible but it is impossible.

@dimitridkatsis:

-__-

That's only a weakness if he's listening. You can't just use supersonics and expect him to be affected, that's first of all. Second of all Luthor has never beaten Superman...so...

Thirdly, Luthor is smarter than Batman. Learn to comprehend that, people. Comparing Luthor to Bruce is like comparing me to Steven Hawkings; theyre not equals.

@superguy1591: Why do you consider Luthor to be smarter than Batman?

@muyjingo: Batma's IQ is 190; Luthor's IQ is north of 200, though never documented due to his need to challenge Superman's near unlimited might.

Lex Luthor is so genius that Superman BELIEVES that if Lex put his mind to it he could solve a lot of the world's problems. That's something Superman has never offered up to Bruce.

Lastly, Lex built his company from the ground; he didn't inherit like Bruce.

Keep in mind that Lex was created to fight Superman with his mind; Batman was created to fight mobsters. His most powerful rogue is Clayface; a guy Luthor and Superman would make very quick work of.

Because he is the Numero 1.

@superguy1591:

Batman doesn't have Luthor's IQ but he is a supreme strategist, very cunning and plans. He cant afford to rush in against God like powerhouses, so yes I believe it is plausible that he could beat Superman given the right circumstances....obviously with your known antipathy towards Batman, I don't expect you to agree!

So all the people who dont believe that Batman is the best heroe evur, hates or dislike the character.

That isnt Batman this is Batman.

Don't know if its already been posted because haven't skimmed the thread, but a realistic fight between Bats and Supes would go down like this.

Batman beating Suoes is not plausible, its ridiculous and unrealistic even by comic standards. I don't care if he has kyrptonite and has cool gadgets and intelligence. Superman can throw mountains and move FTL lol.

Its impossible for Batman to beat Superman this is shit,batman knows that superman is far more powerful than him there is no contest SUPERPOWERS vs peak human physical batman stand no chance speed same invincibility i mean superman could just freeze batman and let him suffocate or kill him with heat vision from a far this is retard fight for superman haters this whole argument superman vs batman is stupid not same level this two.

@wolfrazer: This is one of the real fights how it normal would be always,i love batman as superhero but he can t defeat superman physical or in speed and so forth.

Look, Batman defeating just about any of the JL depends on 30% tactics and 70% psych profiling. Batman's plans all COMPLETELY depend on them holding back as they normally would and Superman or whoever not rushing at him trying to legitimately kill him.

Other heroes holding back, Batman stand some chance. Full out, trying to kill him, no chance at all.

People seemed to think that red son radiation doesn't do anything to Superman. There's a comic where Batman found out that red son radiation blocks Superman's access to his powers.

Batman and Superman are best friends, they would never fight to death

They share the same universe but are completely different comics, Superman is an alien but raised as a human... he can't have normal human enemies because he could just kill them with one punch. Batman can kill with a punch also but he don't uses that force against his enemies.. he just breaks bones. In real life he would kill a thug but it's comics were he don't and has a moral code. Same goes for superman. Batman could easily kill superman and aquaman could easily kill batman. It all depends on writing.

Batman is the weakest of all the current justice league members. So they give him credit to abuse all the weakness of superman or wonder woman etc. This has no honor and bruce would use a friend as help but there are times where no good is. Bruce knows that better than clark. In Endgame batman loses even with his giant mech. He wins til he uses kryptonite. Everybody would win with kryptonite.

You can't enjoy batman comics if you think that he is the badass and the best. He is not. He is a supercop and has his own universe. Superman has his own universe with alien earth threats.

If i want to read some grounded comic i buy batman but if i want to see alien human threats i buy superman. It depends on mood and so on.

Don't start useless fights. Superman could win, even aquaman would win against superman or superman kill all justice leaguers.