Why is dick believed to be faster tham batman?

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#1 Posted by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

I know he is a better acrobat but i have never seen him do anything (besides acrobatics) that Bruce can't. Does anyone have any examples? Dick always seemed so overrated to me.

#2 Posted by KraytRawk (628 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick is lighter on his feet, he doesn't have the cape to slow him down. He is probably a bit more flexible than Bruce as well, this all contributes to him being a bit quicker.

#3 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6496 posts) - - Show Bio

Both of them are faster than the best human athletes. Now idk about running speed maybe Bruce is faster but in combat speed Dick is faster I think.

#4 Posted by batshrine (1001 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually agree with this, I don't understand why smaller equals faster...It seems more like an illusion, Batman has trained for much longer than Dick, and his reactions in a fight would definitely be faster than Dick's.

#5 Posted by ccraft (5594 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually agree with this, I don't understand why smaller equals faster...It seems more like an illusion, Batman has trained for much longer than Dick, and his reactions in a fight would definitely be faster than Dick's.

agreed

#6 Posted by RDClip (1167 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Batman can't be the best at everything.

Plus, Dick is smaller and thus lighter than Batman, he's also younger and thus has taken less damage over the years.

#7 Edited by Rainquility (66 posts) - - Show Bio

I like to compare Bruce to a tank and Dick as a fighter jet if it ever came down to combat. Of course not literally.

#8 Posted by AkshunYadav (28 posts) - - Show Bio

I like to compare Bruce to a tank and Dick as a fighter jet if it ever came down to combat. Of course not literally.

what crap!! u realize bruce wayne is stealthiest and (as i believe) fastest human alive??!! i mean a tank??!!!!seriously??!!

#9 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@rdclip said:

Because Batman can't be the best at everything.

Plus, Dick is smaller and thus lighter than Batman, he's also younger and thus has taken less damage over the years.

#10 Posted by Squalleon (4979 posts) - - Show Bio

It is mentioned many times in the comics.Plus Dick is more acrobatic which making him more elusive.

Proof :

#11 Posted by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon: Is that comic canon? And batman has dodged bullets before

#12 Edited by Squalleon (4979 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324 said:

@squalleon: Is that comic canon? And batman has dodged bullets before

yes it is canon.

And Catwoman says that Nightwing is a little faster and his movement more fluid.

Also she says that the slightly faster move of dick makes the difference in this fight.

#13 Edited by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

Fair enough. Dick is still very overrated to me though. But I acknowledge he is a smudge faster.

#14 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

@kraytrawk: I think you got it.

He's an acrobat which implies quicker reflexes. He has a gymnast's body and, typically, you'll find that a thin, wirey guy is going to be faster than a bigger, muscular guy.

#15 Edited by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

I think bruce could take him in a race, more powerful legs.

#16 Posted by danhimself (22718 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324 said:

Fair enough. Dick is still very overrated to me though. But I acknowledge he is a smudge faster.

when someone says "overrated" all I hear is " I don't like that" so give me a good reason why the very first sidekick, the man trained by Batman since he was 8, the man who even Superman says is the best team leader in the DCU is overrated?

#17 Edited by TheDarkKnife (3 posts) - - Show Bio

@

@jayc1324 said:

Fair enough. Dick is still very overrated to me though. But I acknowledge he is a smudge faster.

when someone says "overrated" all I hear is " I don't like that" so give me a good reason why the very first sidekick, the man trained by Batman since he was 8, the man who even Superman says is the best team leader in the DCU is overrated?

Boom! *crickets*

Grayson overrated? That's just like... your opinion, man.

#18 Posted by RustyRoy (13968 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

@batshrine said:

I actually agree with this, I don't understand why smaller equals faster...It seems more like an illusion, Batman has trained for much longer than Dick, and his reactions in a fight would definitely be faster than Dick's.

agreed

Agreed.

#19 Edited by GeekyEverAfter (353 posts) - - Show Bio

In my opinion Batman's gadgets make him faster but, Dick is faster on feet because of his training at Haly's Circus.

#20 Posted by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: I think you're overrating him right now. But some think that he can take bruce in a fight, and is so much better than all the other robins. I have also heard that he is better than bruce in some areas, which I don't find to be true. That's all

#21 Posted by danhimself (22718 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: how am I overrating him? Those three things are completely true. He was the very first sidekick. He was trained by Batman since he was 8. Superman has said that he is the best leader in the DCU.

Him being the best Robin is subjective. But he is a better acrobat than Bruce.

#22 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

@selinawayne: This isn't a jab in any sense, but what gadgets would make him faster? If anything, wouldn't they add additional weight?

#23 Posted by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself: him being trained since he was 8 and being the first sidekick doesn't make him any better than anyone else, or good at all for that matter.

#24 Posted by RustyRoy (13968 posts) - - Show Bio

@crash_recovery: The armor and cape may slow him down a little bit and in that sense Bruce may be faster than dick. I think Bruce is faster but Dick is more flexible.

#25 Posted by ccraft (5594 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: how am I overrating him? Those three things are completely true. He was the very first sidekick. He was trained by Batman since he was 8. Superman has said that he is the best leader in the DCU.

Him being the best Robin is subjective. But he is a better acrobat than Bruce.

Why would Superman say that?

#26 Posted by RDClip (1167 posts) - - Show Bio

So, no one is taking into account that Batman has been taking worse beatings for much longer than Dick, even having his back broken once?

Or even that Bruce is around 10 years older than Dick, with just more general wear and tear on his muscles?

#27 Posted by GeekyEverAfter (353 posts) - - Show Bio

@crash_recovery: His grapple gun makes him faster, that's what I was trying to say. Sorry for the confusion o.O

#28 Posted by Squalleon (4979 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324 said:

I think bruce could take him in a race, more powerful legs.

I don't think so.....Bruce has been shown to fight more with his fists and utilizing his weight.
While Dick has shown to be more of a kicking and launching person so Dick should have more powerfull legs.
It's not power is analogy of mass and muscle power.I was a track athlete and i know.

Both are at a perfect point of human physique.But Dick is lighter and smaller.Studies have shown that athletes with small legs are faster.

#29 Edited by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce fights like thy because he weighs more. But Bruce is peak human so his legs should be more powerful. Look at a picture of batman and nightwing and you can see how much bigger Bruce's legs are. And big does not necessarily mean slow. Also bruce is taller so he covers ground faster.

#30 Edited by danhimself (22718 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

@danhimself said:

@jayc1324: how am I overrating him? Those three things are completely true. He was the very first sidekick. He was trained by Batman since he was 8. Superman has said that he is the best leader in the DCU.

Him being the best Robin is subjective. But he is a better acrobat than Bruce.

Why would Superman say that?

because it's the truth....He's led the Teen Titans, the Outsiders, and the Justice League

think of Nightwing as the illegitimate son of Superman and Batman...he's got the skills of Batman but the personal skills of Superman....imagine Batman but he's able to get a long with everyone

it's why they originally wanted to kill him instead of Conner Kent during Infinite Crisis...because he's everyone in the DCU's friend..his death would have had a much more resounding effect than Superboy's did

#31 Posted by Rainquility (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@akshunyadav: As stated before I never mean't literally. Plus some tanks can move as fast as a bat out of hell (See what I did there). I essentially agree with what everyone else has stated above.

#32 Posted by Durakken (1591 posts) - - Show Bio

Musculature Development is altered by when you start and how you train. Dick is just faster because of his acrobatic training from birth. Dick and Tim are both faster and lighter than Bruce, especially if you equalize them. Jason and Bruce are just average which makes them generally Bulkier but Bruce is more so due to not doing Robin training which is more dodge oriented. Damian, if he grows up should be lighter than Bruce, but Bulkier than the rest, but that bulk would look physically less than Jason.

#33 Posted by batmannflash (6226 posts) - - Show Bio

Both of them are faster than the best human athletes. Now idk about running speed maybe Bruce is faster but in combat speed Dick is faster I think.

exactly. Bruce would probably beat Dick in a straight up naked foot race lol

but Bruce is slower in combat because he has a bulkier suit and carries much more equipment from Dick. They also have different styles. Dick is more acrobatic and less of a brawler than Batsy so naturally he'll be faster in a fight

#34 Posted by joshmightbe (24764 posts) - - Show Bio

Well Dick was a world class acrobat before he hit puberty so he'd naturally be more agile than Bruce who didn't really start his physical training until much later in life.

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#35 Posted by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

More agile yes, but Bruce is one of the greatest martial artists ever and should be faster in combat probably.

#36 Posted by KnightRise (4762 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324 said:

@danhimself: I think you're overrating him right now. But some think that he can take bruce in a fight, and is so much better than all the other robins. I have also heard that he is better than bruce in some areas, which I don't find to be true. That's all

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

#37 Posted by joshmightbe (24764 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy said:

@crash_recovery: The armor and cape may slow him down a little bit and in that sense Bruce may be faster than dick. I think Bruce is faster but Dick is more flexible.

But Bruce is at least a good 15 years older than Dick and has quite a few more injuries including once being wheel chair bound which would greatly reduce anyone's physical capabilities. I'm not claiming Dick is better than Batman just that logic would dictate that Dick was a little quicker.

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#38 Posted by RustyRoy (13968 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy said:

@crash_recovery: The armor and cape may slow him down a little bit and in that sense Bruce may be faster than dick. I think Bruce is faster but Dick is more flexible.

But Bruce is at least a good 15 years older than Dick and has quite a few more injuries including once being wheel chair bound which would greatly reduce anyone's physical capabilities. I'm not claiming Dick is better than Batman just that logic would dictate that Dick was a little quicker.

Yeah I agree but the thing is comic books don't follow these rules, I think if Dick and Bruce fight, Bruce can dodge or block more attacks than Dick can. In close range Bruce should be faster but in long distance range like running, jumping of rooftops Dick should be faster .

#39 Posted by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

@knightrise: Well I don't think we can come to an agreement on that word, so I'll let it be. All I'm thinking is that Bruce is faster than dick in combat and things like parkour and traveling rooftops.

#40 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Dick is believed to be faster due to superior bullet timing feats, and more agility. Yet, in a serious fight, he couldn't even touch Bruce. In terms of raw speed, i would agree, Dick is undoubtabley faster. In terms of applying that speed to combat, Bruce is superior.

#41 Posted by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

I concur.

#42 Posted by joshmightbe (24764 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: I'd say Dick's acrobatic skill would give him a clear advantage over Bruce in something like parkour since all that is, is free form acrobatics. I admit that Bruce would clearly dominate Dick in a fight I doubt he would be as good as Dick in areas that are all about agility and flexibility just based on the age difference and the amount of physical abuse Bruce has been put through over the years.

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#43 Posted by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

I think a fair argument could be made for either of them to be faster. They have similar feats, and dick has being the worlds best acrobat to his advantage, but Bruce has been training longer than dick.

#44 Posted by joshmightbe (24764 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: Well Dick has been training since he learned to walk in areas that Bruce didn't spend much time on relatively speaking. I know Dick wasn't doing martial arts training but he was under going probably pretty intensive athletic training long before he met Bruce, which was in fact the reason he was an optimal choice for Batman's side kick since he was pretty much halfway there when they met.

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#45 Posted by Jayc1324 (13510 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: I think it also depends on what age they are during this comparison. If its right when dick begins training he is probably more agile and acrobatic but Bruce would probably be quicker on his feet and in combat at that time.

#46 Posted by joshmightbe (24764 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: I'm referring entirely to just outright speed, combat is a different discussion entirely since that has just as much to do with strength, endurance and skill as it does with speed. I would say that due to Bruce's greater amount of experience he'd be more skilled in anticipating the actions of his opponent which would most likely compensate for any lack of speed on Batman's part. Basically Dick is faster but Bruce is good enough at figuring out the next move that the speed doesn't really matter much.

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#47 Posted by Durakken (1591 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: Well Dick has been training since he learned to walk in areas that Bruce didn't spend much time on relatively speaking. I know Dick wasn't doing martial arts training but he was under going probably pretty intensive athletic training long before he met Bruce, which was in fact the reason he was an optimal choice for Batman's side kick since he was pretty much halfway there when they met.

Bruce is well out of his peak or close to it while Dick is probably in the middle of his or the butt-end of his depending on Post Crisis canon or Post-Flashpoint.

You don't continue to get better physically the more you train. You hit a peak and then you maintain and/or slowly fall off. This means Bruce is slower than his peak no matter how you look at it, whether it is far below or slightly he is beneath his prime. Dick on the other hand is at his prime or slightly under his prime.

Let's assume that they were both at their prime though. Dick's musculature lends itself almost completely to speed, both in general movement and in sprinting. His leaner and more flexible. Bruce's musculature lends itself a lot to speed, but still has a built of power musculature, and generally isn't as flexible.

The fact is if you say they have 100pts devoted to speed then it's clearly Dick who is fastest, but that is off because Dick started earlier in his musculature training which means he would have more like 120-150 points to Bruce's 100 points. Then you consider the age difference and we then have to point out that Bruce doesn't have 100 pts, but 80-90pts... at least in physical ability. So if we say Bruce is 70/30 speed/power split... well Bruce would have 60 speed pts maximally and Dick would have like 100-150.

Though it should be pointed out that in terms of sprint speed Tim probably beats Dick in DCnU because Gymnastics have more running than Acrobatics.

#48 Posted by RDClip (1167 posts) - - Show Bio

@durakken said:

@joshmightbe said:

@jayc1324: Well Dick has been training since he learned to walk in areas that Bruce didn't spend much time on relatively speaking. I know Dick wasn't doing martial arts training but he was under going probably pretty intensive athletic training long before he met Bruce, which was in fact the reason he was an optimal choice for Batman's side kick since he was pretty much halfway there when they met.

Bruce is well out of his peak or close to it while Dick is probably in the middle of his or the butt-end of his depending on Post Crisis canon or Post-Flashpoint.

You don't continue to get better physically the more you train. You hit a peak and then you maintain and/or slowly fall off. This means Bruce is slower than his peak no matter how you look at it, whether it is far below or slightly he is beneath his prime. Dick on the other hand is at his prime or slightly under his prime.

Let's assume that they were both at their prime though. Dick's musculature lends itself almost completely to speed, both in general movement and in sprinting. His leaner and more flexible. Bruce's musculature lends itself a lot to speed, but still has a built of power musculature, and generally isn't as flexible.

The fact is if you say they have 100pts devoted to speed then it's clearly Dick who is fastest, but that is off because Dick started earlier in his musculature training which means he would have more like 120-150 points to Bruce's 100 points. Then you consider the age difference and we then have to point out that Bruce doesn't have 100 pts, but 80-90pts... at least in physical ability. So if we say Bruce is 70/30 speed/power split... well Bruce would have 60 speed pts maximally and Dick would have like 100-150.

Though it should be pointed out that in terms of sprint speed Tim probably beats Dick in DCnU because Gymnastics have more running than Acrobatics.

I don't know about new52, but in pre-Flashpoint it was mentioned (in Teen Titans or Nightwing) that Dick is superior to Tim physically while Tim's forte was in intellectual matters.

#49 Posted by Durakken (1591 posts) - - Show Bio

@rdclip said:

@durakken said:

Though it should be pointed out that in terms of sprint speed Tim probably beats Dick in DCnU because Gymnastics have more running than Acrobatics.

I don't know about new52, but in pre-Flashpoint it was mentioned (in Teen Titans or Nightwing) that Dick is superior to Tim physically while Tim's forte was in intellectual matters.

Yes, that's why I said in DCnU, because Tim was given a background in gymnastics stupidly which alters his capabilities... just like the fact that Dick was like 17 when he started training under Batman alters his fighting abilities, lowering them significantly, especially when you also reduce Bruce's solo time, the time they trained together, and all of their ages.

#50 Edited by RustyRoy (13968 posts) - - Show Bio

@durakken said:

@rdclip said:

@durakken said:

Though it should be pointed out that in terms of sprint speed Tim probably beats Dick in DCnU because Gymnastics have more running than Acrobatics.

I don't know about new52, but in pre-Flashpoint it was mentioned (in Teen Titans or Nightwing) that Dick is superior to Tim physically while Tim's forte was in intellectual matters.

Yes, that's why I said in DCnU, because Tim was given a background in gymnastics stupidly which alters his capabilities... just like the fact that Dick was like 17 when he started training under Batman alters his fighting abilities, lowering them significantly, especially when you also reduce Bruce's solo time, the time they trained together, and all of their ages.

I think it was nice addition.

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