Why does Batman Begins get underrated so much?

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#1 Edited by comicdude23 (11331 posts) - - Show Bio

Generally, I've seen most movie-rating websites, critics and fans rate the trilogy: The Dark Knight > The Dark Knight Rises > Batman Begins. Now I agree that Begins is the weakest, but such sites such as IMDb, Rotten Tomatoes, IGN have the last two higher than Begins. Why?

I'm not saying everyone says that, but from what I've come across, it comes across that way honestly speaking. However people really underrate Batman Begins, it was still a great film and way better than the likes of Iron Man IMO, heck I even think it was better than Avengers.

#2 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

i frankly agree so much with you! loved it!!

#3 Posted by StrangeMan (411 posts) - - Show Bio

I personally see it as The Dark Knight > Batman Begins > The Dark Knight Rises, being that stand alone TDKR is not only the weakest of the trilogy, but the weakest film Nolan has made, not to say it's bad, not at all, I even like it more than BB, being that it's one of the strongest closures to a film saga ever, but I would be lying if I said that TDKR is a better film overall than Begins. That's just me though.

Still, Begins was amazing, even though the sense of reality to the TDK trilogy was better executed in The Dark Knight, Begins did a fantastic job presenting this new type of Batman to the world with the way it retold Batman's origin, not to mention, one of the main themes of the film, fear, was very well executed. I also LOVE how it portrayed Gotham, in the next films of the franchise Gotham didn't really had that much character, it was just a generic city, but in Begins they did a fantastic job keeping it true to the comics, you had the sense that this city was in ruins, that it was "a city that doesn't want to be saved" like in Year One, it was dark, it was menacing, and the contrast between the modern day Gotham and the Gotham when Thomas Wayne was alive helped the city established itself as such an interesting setting, sad that TDK and TDKR lost that portrayal of Gotham.

#4 Edited by comicdude23 (11331 posts) - - Show Bio

@StrangeMan said:

I personally see it as The Dark Knight > Batman Begins > The Dark Knight Rises, being that stand alone TDKR is not only the weakest of the trilogy, but the weakest film Nolan has made, not to say it's bad, not at all, I even like it more than BB, being that it's one of the strongest closures to a film saga ever, but I would be lying if I said that TDKR is a better film overall than Begins. That's just me though.

Still, Begins was amazing, even though the sense of reality to the TDK trilogy was better executed in The Dark Knight, Begins did a fantastic job presenting this new type of Batman to the world with the way it retold Batman's origin, not to mention, one of the main themes of the film, fear, was very well executed. I also LOVE how it portrayed Gotham, in the next films of the franchise Gotham didn't really had that much character, it was just a generic city, but in Begins they did a fantastic job keeping it true to the comics, you had the sense that this city was in ruins, that it was "a city that doesn't want to be saved" like in Year One, it was dark, it was menacing, and the contrast between the modern day Gotham and the Gotham when Thomas Wayne was alive helped the city established itself as such an interesting setting, sad that TDK and TDKR lost that portrayal of Gotham.

It's all opinion at the end of the day. One could argue that TDKR only gets rated higher than BB on sites like IMDb and RT because of hype.

But I disagree with your very last statement. TDKR was set 8 years after TDK, and organized crime had been rid of the city, Gotham was now a peaceful and quiet city. That was the whole point, Gotham had changed greatly.

#5 Posted by comicdude23 (11331 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman Begins had a traditional Gotham, we see the side of Gotham with poverty, eg: the narrows

The Dark Knight shows the more mainstream side of Gotham

The Dark Knight Rises shows a new kind of Gotham

#6 Posted by StrangeMan (411 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

Batman Begins had a traditional Gotham, we see the side of Gotham with poverty, eg: the narrows

The Dark Knight shows the more mainstream side of Gotham

The Dark Knight Rises shows a new kind of Gotham

I think that the BB Gotham would've helped TDK, being that its main theme of chaos could've been portrayed better in a more darker Gotham, in my opinion anyway.

And you're right about TDKR, kinda forgot about it.

#7 Posted by NightHaunter (111 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with the ranking presented in the opening post. I'd put BB last because I generally find the script to be weaker, and I love the use of Bane and the Joker in the sequels.

Still though, BB far surpasses any Marvel movies.

#8 Posted by comicdude23 (11331 posts) - - Show Bio

@NightHaunter said:

I agree with the ranking presented in the opening post. I'd put BB last because I generally find the script to be weaker, and I love the use of Bane and the Joker in the sequels.

Still though, BB far surpasses any Marvel movies.

I agree. Begins was solid, but felt weaker compared to the other two. Yes, I also agree that Begins surpasses any of the Marvel movies, including Avengers.

#9 Posted by gettogaara (164 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

@NightHaunter said:

I agree with the ranking presented in the opening post. I'd put BB last because I generally find the script to be weaker, and I love the use of Bane and the Joker in the sequels.

Still though, BB far surpasses any Marvel movies.

I agree. Begins was solid, but felt weaker compared to the other two. Yes, I also agree that Begins surpasses any of the Marvel movies, including Avengers.

I have to disagree here. I mean yeah the story was stronger but for me Avengers was just more fun to watch. I agree with the order in the opening as well and consider Avengers to be in between DKR and BB. Other than that though Marvel hasn't had many movies that impressed me to a similar level despite being somewhat enjoyable.

#10 Posted by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@StrangeMan said:

I personally see it as The Dark Knight > Batman Begins > The Dark Knight Rises, being that stand alone TDKR is not only the weakest of the trilogy, but the weakest film Nolan has made, not to say it's bad, not at all, I even like it more than BB, being that it's one of the strongest closures to a film saga ever, but I would be lying if I said that TDKR is a better film overall than Begins. That's just me though.

I disagree with nothing in this paragraph.

I think maybe it gets underrated among the trilogy because it's older, honestly -- I think technically it's a superior movie to TDKR. But yeah, when you compare it to other movies, and other superhero movies, Begins is just a really great movie.

This reminds me of Bioshock 2. I felt like that was a massive step down from the first Bioshock. But when I finished BS2 and then went to play some other shooters, I realized that it had actually been really good. It paled in comparison to its predecessor, but it was a phenomenal game when compared to most other titles in its genre.

#11 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

@NightHaunter said:

Still though, BB far surpasses any Marvel movies.

Ouch to marvel fanboys :D

#12 Posted by joshmightbe (24764 posts) - - Show Bio

Begins was much better than TDKR IMO.

#13 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Begins was much better than TDKR IMO.

Cool! id like to know why :D?

#14 Posted by NightHaunter (111 posts) - - Show Bio

@FatihBATMAN said:

@NightHaunter said:

Still though, BB far surpasses any Marvel movies.

Ouch to marvel fanboys :D

I am a Marvel fanboy haha :)

@gettogaara said:

@comicdude23 said:

@NightHaunter said:

I agree with the ranking presented in the opening post. I'd put BB last because I generally find the script to be weaker, and I love the use of Bane and the Joker in the sequels.

Still though, BB far surpasses any Marvel movies.

I agree. Begins was solid, but felt weaker compared to the other two. Yes, I also agree that Begins surpasses any of the Marvel movies, including Avengers.

I have to disagree here. I mean yeah the story was stronger but for me Avengers was just more fun to watch. I agree with the order in the opening as well and consider Avengers to be in between DKR and BB. Other than that though Marvel hasn't had many movies that impressed me to a similar level despite being somewhat enjoyable.

I completely agree Avengers was more fun, I just prefer more serious movies I can really invest in. I thought Avengers was incredible to the point of leaving the Helicarrier, but to some extent I think I like Avengers because I'm a fanboy, whereas I like TDK trilogy because they're superb movies (I've maybe read 10 Batman comics my entire life). Avengers is still quite easily my fourth favourite adaptation.

#15 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

@NightHaunter said:

I am a Marvel fanboy haha :)

hope i didnt offend :D

#16 Posted by joshmightbe (24764 posts) - - Show Bio

@FatihBATMAN: TDKR just felt off to me, it wasn't a bad movie at all its just of the 3 it felt the least like a Batman movie also I don't like Bane's last minute switch from mastermind to henchman and the whole Robin gag just felt like pandering.

#17 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

i feel you man! agree to the max! it was like the first two movies were like soulsearching, and the last were to just...like...to make a third if you feel me..

#18 Posted by TheCannon (19464 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know why people rank it the lowest. The weakest was easily The Dark Knight. The order goes: The Dark Knight Rises > Batman Begins > The Dark Knight.

I loved Begins. Not my favorite, but I still loved it.

#19 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

wuhu! on more believer! :D

#20 Posted by tupiaz (2241 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman and Batman Returns are more underrated than BB and they have done a lot more to make Batman popular and increase the knowledge about him that BB did. Hell BB and the animated show have never been haven't it been for the two Tim Burton movies.

#21 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont quite understand that post :<

#22 Posted by logy5000 (6167 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked Batman Begins, except for the joke they made out of Scarecrow.

#23 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

can you explain please? what type of joke?

#24 Posted by tupiaz (2241 posts) - - Show Bio

@FatihBATMAN said:

i dont quite understand that post :<

Saying Batman Begins is underrated and then not mentioning Batman nor Batman Returns in my opinion nt that fair. To day people seems to forget all about the two Burton Movies. And they did and will always have done more for Batman popularity than BB ever did. Without the two first Burton movies Warner Brothers wouldn't have made the animated shows and probably not BB. If yu want to talk about underrated Batman movies you should talk abut the two Burton movies not BB.

#25 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with you....one simply forgets to mention them..

#26 Posted by RustyRoy (13984 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman Begins is a great movie, in my opinion its the 3rd best CBM behind TDK and SM 2.

#27 Posted by megame23 (8 posts) - - Show Bio

I just read through Knightfall, and I realized something that really changed my view on Batman Begins. I really liked this film, i loved how it portrayed Bruce becoming batman, his training with Ras was a really cool touch, and an interesting way to mix Ras and Henry Ducard. But what I realized after reading Knightfall is the real problem is with Nolan's Batman. He isn't THE Batman. THE Batman would never let someone die, the real batman would call Nolan's a murderer. The following is from Batman #510

Batman: No, you don't care- But the REAL Batman does- and the Real Batman NEVER kills.

Azrael-Bat: I Didn't Kill--Not even Abattoir! I Walked away and-

Batman: YOU LET HIM DIE--And as a result, Grahum Etchison died! You're out of control-just as bad as what you profess to fight!

To Batman letting a man die is murder. Batman's philosophy is governed by deontological ethics, meaning he feels obligated, duty bound to do what is right. To stand up against all evil, to help those in need, ALWAYS, that is the true Batman.

#28 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

Batman and Batman Returns are more underrated than BB

Bullsh*t.

#29 Posted by turoksonofstone (12901 posts) - - Show Bio

The Nolan movies are incredibly overrated.

#30 Posted by Decoy Elite (29923 posts) - - Show Bio

*Falls into thread*

Ow.

Oh hey, not the biggest fan of this movie, mostly because it's sort of slow and I saw TDK first so....

Which is why it's not rated highly really, the sequel is just that much better to most people.

Welp, guess I'll try and find my way out...

#31 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@FatihBATMAN said:

i dont quite understand that post :<

Saying Batman Begins is underrated and then not mentioning Batman nor Batman Returns in my opinion nt that fair. To day people seems to forget all about the two Burton Movies. And they did and will always have done more for Batman popularity than BB ever did. Without the two first Burton movies Warner Brothers wouldn't have made the animated shows and probably not BB. If yu want to talk about underrated Batman movies you should talk abut the two Burton movies not BB.

Batman and Batman Returns are actually very overrated.

#32 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

@turoksonofstone said:

The Nolan movies are incredibly overrated.

oh the blasphemy :O

#33 Posted by comicdude23 (11331 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Batman Returns was f-cking awful.

#34 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

the first burton batman film hit it right!

#35 Posted by tupiaz (2241 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

@tupiaz said:

Batman and Batman Returns are more underrated than BB

Bullsh*t.

Awesome argument!

@entropy_aegis:

For no other reason that you are saying so!

#36 Edited by neale7 (125 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotta agree with tupiaz. Batman89 and Returns deserve more love. People hate on them because it’s cool to hate on them now. Like TDKR, people hate on that because it’s cool to.

If it weren’t for Burton, there'd be no animated series, and no film franchise like we have today. He boosted Batman's popularity for the late 80's and then the early 90's. He shook off the camp portrayal from the 60's, that was Batman for the masses, and showed those that weren’t into comics who Batman was. Yeah it may be a slightly different Batman than to the comics, but so is Nolan’s. The argument that Burton’s Batman kills, well so does Nolan's. There’s the argument that Burton's was more fantasy than realistic. Have you guys not looked at Batman's rouge gallery? Batman’s world is a world of fantasy. We actually got a cool Batmobile, a Batwing, and Batboat that were more comic than Nolan’s vehicles.

You can’t say that Nolan’s is more close to the comics anymore than Burton’s. Both have there pro’s and con’s, and both are those director’s take on Batman, his villain’s and the world they live in.

Oh and back to the original topic. I’ve never really been a fan of begins, the direction and the acting at times just makes me cringe.

#37 Posted by Cap10nate (2736 posts) - - Show Bio

Rises was my least favorite of the trilogy. I thought the story dragged on and was quite predictable. The most joy I got out of the movie was looking for Pittsburgh landmarks in the film as I worked downtown at the time of filming and got to see all that stuff while everything was in town.

#38 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

i agree its because of burton were here today and so on... but now we must look forward.. you know?

#39 Edited by comicdude23 (11331 posts) - - Show Bio

@neale7: The acting in Begins was top quality, except Holmes.

@Cap10nate said:

Rises was my least favorite of the trilogy. I thought the story dragged on and was quite predictable. The most joy I got out of the movie was looking for Pittsburgh landmarks in the film as I worked downtown at the time of filming and got to see all that stuff while everything was in town.

Nah I disagree. Begins was definitely the weakest.

#40 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

Nah I disagree. Begins was definitely the weakest.

why? :)

#41 Posted by comicdude23 (11331 posts) - - Show Bio

@FatihBATMAN said:

@comicdude23 said:

Nah I disagree. Begins was definitely the weakest.

why? :)

Because it just didn't feel as spectacular as the other two, it was emotional and I loved it. But the other two just work better IMO, the acting was improved upon, they were more enjoyable and I enjoyed the story-lines more.

#42 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

definately agree there :) emotionally BB is the strongest...then TDKR and lastly TDK

#43 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@tupiaz said:

Batman and Batman Returns are more underrated than BB

Bullsh*t.

Awesome argument!

@entropy_aegis:

For no other reason that you are saying so!

Tons of people think Burton is the definitive Batman director,Keaton is definite actor and Pfeiffer is the definite Catwoman,I dont see you giving any arguments either?

#44 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

well he got the atmosphere down! i mean Burton! Keaton was pretty good also yea!

#45 Posted by tupiaz (2241 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: You came with the statement so I expect you will give some arguments for your opinion. Anyway I think Batman Returns had a nice atmosphere (very Gothic). You could argue that Catwoman (too much vendetta too little anti-hero/burglar) and Penguin (too much of monster too little of a crime lord) was out of character however they fit into the overall tone and story. Instead of being some silly incarnation of the characters. However they still made Batman more known more popular and was taken more serious as a character among adults. Also made TAS a possibility. Don't think it would have been done if Batman hasn't been so popular as he was in the early to mid 90's.

#46 Posted by entropy_aegis (15445 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:

@entropy_aegis: You came with the statement so I expect you will give some arguments for your opinion. Anyway I think Batman Returns had a nice atmosphere (very Gothic). You could argue that Catwoman (too much vendetta too little anti-hero/burglar) and Penguin (too much of monster too little of a crime lord) was out of character however they fit into the overall tone and story. Instead of being some silly incarnation of the characters. However they still made Batman more known more popular and was taken more serious as a character among adults. Also made TAS a possibility. Don't think it would have been done if Batman hasn't been so popular as he was in the early to mid 90's.

Again those movies are rated very highly,so what exactly are you arguing about?

#47 Posted by tupiaz (2241 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: That their influence is forgotten and the new Nolan get hyped like every other Batman movie has been silly stories that didn't took Batman serious.

#48 Posted by comicdude23 (11331 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz: This thread doesn't even have anything to do with Burton's Batman. Please don't try and bring him into this.

#49 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

How did the old ones take Batman seriously?

#50 Posted by tupiaz (2241 posts) - - Show Bio

@FatihBATMAN said:

How did the old ones take Batman seriously?

Well they had a serious tone of a Batman movie that to my knowledge wasn't done before.

@comicdude23: Well my point was that it wasn't mention was an mistake to begin with.

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