Why did people say Bale's Batman didn't do detective work?

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#1 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

I watched TDK and he did plenty. He was scanning those bullets and figuring out who Joker's next hit was. 

#2 Posted by SupBatz (1777 posts) - - Show Bio

Bale's Batman wasn't an idiot or anything. I, personally, just didn't feel like he was as smart as Batman usually is depicted to be. He leaned more towards to the impossible to beat fighter side of Batman than he did to the genius detective side. Ofcourse, this is just because Nolan was depicting a more realistic, human Batman. Still, I prefer my Batman to be less ninja, more genius.

#3 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

He did more forensics work. He collected the bullet, but the analysis was more implied than deduced. It would've been cool to see him interrogating thugs and insidemen more than just roughing up Flask and Maroni (or Falcone, idr). I think Nolan showed some detective elements, but not a lot.

#4 Posted by Dark_Slayor (212 posts) - - Show Bio

Bale's Batman was by no means a genius, and he very little detective work. I believe all he did was find a gun to a bullet and found out who the Joker's next hit was, nothing to merit the title of the world's greatest detective. As a matter of fact, I didn't like Bale's Batman at all, the other actors are what really carried the movie for me.

#5 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark_Slayor said:

Bale's Batman was by no means a genius, and he very little detective work. I believe all he did was find a gun to a bullet and found out who the Joker's next hit was, nothing to merit the title of the world's greatest detective. As a matter of fact, I didn't like Bale's Batman at all, the other actors are what really carried the movie for me.

Bale was the Best Batman by far, and Bruce Wayne IMO. 
 
He was pretty smart and did use those gadgets to pin-point what was going to happen. That and even though he had Fox's help, he was very tactical and well timed against that army of SWAT.
#6 Edited by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

He also applied the Sonar concept to very cell-phone in Gotham. Which is quite smart.

#7 Posted by MasterDetective (840 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

I watched TDK and he did plenty. He was scanning those bullets and figuring out who Joker's next hit was.

And just how is this considered detective work? Anyone with the same computer Bruce has could do the same.

#8 Posted by nickzambuto (14124 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

He also applied the Sonar concept to very cell-phone in Gotham. Which is quite smart.

IIRC all he came up with was the idea. Lucious built the thing, just like he built everything else for Batman.

#9 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Explain to me how anyone with the same computer could do the same. How? I'm pretty sure he was the one that connected it to every cell phone. Hence why Fox was shocked.

#10 Posted by YMCMB (160 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude don't you ever get tired of posting about Nolan's batman series...

#11 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course not.

#12 Posted by Dark_Slayor (212 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23: Bale's/Nolan's Batman overall wasn't impressive in any way. He showed no real deduction/detective skills, his fighting was w.e, and above all else he showed no tactical or super genius intellect(which is the most important aspect to Batman imo). IIRC all Batman did in the TDK is was take Fox's idea and expand on it with the Sonar/cell phone machine, I don't think he could even operate it(I could be wrong tho). Also Fox invented every single gadget Batman had in his arsenal. Sadly, Batman didn't make the Nolan Batman trilogy for me.

#13 Posted by CrimsonCake (2679 posts) - - Show Bio

Does having a "realistic" batman really prevent him from being intelligent?He could have at least made his own schematics for his gadgets.

#14 Posted by ElGUitarist (29 posts) - - Show Bio

: being more realistic means that he cannot be a master of everything. I mean, Nolan's Batman is a master fighter and tactician. He also knows enough of his way around the world/underworld to get back into Gotham, survive as a no-name thug etc etc. Him also being a master detective is not very realistic in terms of the time he had to learn all of this.

Bruce was away for 7 years before becoming Batman. That is already a small amount of time to become the kind of fighter he is portrayed to be (already beating several members of the LoS... each of them having the same training that Bruce was supposed to have). Are we to believe that he also spent this time being the brilliant scientist and detective that we see in the comics? Far too little time in the world of the real. And the one year that he was active as batman before TDK is still too little time. The additional 8 years could fix all that... but he was inactive as batman that entire time, as well as inactive as a human being in general... yet he knows enough to research into Selina and know what she used on the safe and why just be examining it with his eye.

So, yeah, it's kept pretty realistic.

And I'm sure Nolan decided to focus on the fighting-Batman for his trilogy, because that is what made most sense for Bruce. The detective-Batman will be the batman that JGL becomes after the trilogy... since he is an actual detective and all (but we'll never see that).

#15 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29509 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist said:

The detective-Batman will be the batman that JGL becomes after the trilogy... since he is an actual detective and all (but we'll never see that).

I never thought of it like that.

This is genius.

#16 Posted by Joygirl (20060 posts) - - Show Bio

Because he didn't really do any detective work. You cited one instance that isn't really detecting, amidst three movies. Insufficient.

#17 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4165 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

Explain to me how anyone with the same computer could do the same. How? I'm pretty sure he was the one that connected it to every cell phone. Hence why Fox was shocked.

Its easy when all the cell phone come from your company, which is what that whole set up implied.

#18 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (11426 posts) - - Show Bio

Because people belive that Sherlock Holmes and Scobby Doo is what Detectives do.

Also, i hate if Batman was the best at everything, i mean tyhe thing about Batman is that he should push himself, comic book Batman most of the times is so smart he never ahs to push himself.

People love BatGOD so hard it blind them to notice, he is omnipotent, for the same not human at all.

#19 Posted by MasterDetective (840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dark_Slayor said:

@comicdude23: Bale's/Nolan's Batman overall wasn't impressive in any way. He showed no real deduction/detective skills, his fighting was w.e, and above all else he showed no tactical or super genius intellect(which is the most important aspect to Batman imo). IIRC all Batman did in the TDK is was take Fox's idea and expand on it with the Sonar/cell phone machine, I don't think he could even operate it(I could be wrong tho). Also Fox invented every single gadget Batman had in his arsenal. Sadly, Batman didn't make the Nolan Batman trilogy for me.

Exactly.

#20 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

because he wasnt. he was just mildly good at some things.

#21 Posted by Dark_Slayor (212 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone else feel like the comic version of Batman would have deduced that Talia and Bane were purposely trying to seize control of his company and also that Talia would have betrayed him, because I feel like he would have seen it coming a mile away.

#22 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (11426 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dark_Slayor: Comic book Batman would have find a way to stop the bomb in seconds.

Comic book Batman would had end the alien invesion of Avengers by himself too.

#23 Edited by ElGUitarist (29 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman fought the entire criminal underworld, impossible if it was just using fisticuffs and no investigation.

It was his marked bills and tracking that were used in TDK.

Bruce used his 'detective skills' to find out it was Lao who was laundering the money in TDK (we only see the culmination scene where all he wanted was to look at his books/records up close to be 100% sure... the meeting where Bruce fell asleep).

He found the fingerprint from the shattered bullet.

He found out about and OBTAINED the "clean slate" in the TDKR, something that a pro thief was after for so long and the criminal underworld thought was only a myth.

He found out Selina's identity.. even with the fancy computer it's still not an easy task.

He shows his knowledge of forensics by naming what Selina used and WHY she used the certain dust powders just by looking at it.

He fixes the software patch for the auto pilot on the Bat. SO UNIMPRESSIVE for him to do that while being busy (even Fox said that he couldn't do it without more time... yet Bruce did it with pressed time).

And those are just examples that I can think of on the spot.

------

You guys seem to forget that Bruce went to college and all that 'normal' stuff before leaving for 7 years before BatmanBegins. In those 7 years, he learned how criminals work, how to survive, and how to fight, and trained by the LoS. After that, he was only Batman for 1 year between BB and TDK.

That comes to 8 years of survival+Los training+being Batman.

So please tell me how any man, no matter how much money or potential, can train himself to the level of fighter that beats several LoS ninjas AND intellect AND detective skills in 8 years? The other 8 years between TDK and TDKR he spent wallowing in dispare, not being Batman, and not doing a damn thing other than that Energy project.

Again, so many interpretations of Batman; from the ultimate martial artist, to scientist level intellect in most fields of science, to world's greatest detective... and sometimes an amalgamation of everything which is only possible in comicbooks and not a realistic man.

Christian Bale's Batman was the ultimate martial artist and a bit of a science expert (fixing auto pilot, applying the sonar to all cellphones, the energy project he led).

Joseph Gordon Levitt's Batman will be the detective and tactical Batman (he's a detective on a level that gained Gordon's trust and respect quickly, and obviously has formal training (master's degree?) in order to be promoted so quickly).

It only makes sense that Nolan took this route with a more realistic (which is the point of batman) take on what a single man can do. For batman to be everything we see in the comics (which is 62+ years worth of writing and stories and interpretations), Batman has to be more than one person. And it only makes sense that Bruce would have the help from Fox and Gordon that he did; Batman is the symbol, while Bruce, Fox, Gordon and Blake in TDKR are/were the forces behind it.

#24 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (11426 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist: The idea is that every single Batman was the best in some thing, so that what create the BatGod everybody talks about.

At least is what i understand at the end of Rises, no one could be the best at everythig, but if any person can be Batman, means Batman could be the best at everything.

#25 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

The only real detective work that I recall seeing was when he analyzed the safe in the beginning of TDKR.

#26 Posted by SugarNickVirga (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman was the least good thing about the Nolan films....well that and the sometimes corny monologue's that they gave Batman at the end of every movie.

Bale's Batman barely did any detective work. He was slow,clumsy,shallow and stupid. He was Batman like 6 times in 3 movies plus an 8 year retirement! His bat cave was crap. It was a garage in TDK featuring a laptop on a desk and in TDKR it was a dark cave of empty space with 2 laptops on a desk. The bat voice was bad but could have worked if they didnt give him so many corny lines like "it's not who I am underneath...."

"you either die a hero or live long enough...." Just shut up man! Also Bale's Batman didnt figure anything out for himself. Asked Alfred and Lucius for everything. He didnt build a new batmobile after the first one was destroyed. He was whining about a dead girlfriend (he forgot his parents were killed)

Keaton and West had more accurate Batmen. The only thing Bale's Bats has on Keaton is that his moral code was more outfront. Keaton's Batman killed like 50 people and that was wrong BUT Keaton's Batman wouldnt quit,didnt have to ask for help with everything,made a cave and several vehicles,KO'd most bad guys with ease and without growling and breathing like he was in pain. Keaton's Batman had real Batman lines like "shut up,you're going to jail."

Adam West's Batman was the most accurate to any comic book. West was the only one who was 6'2" like the real Batman. He was a detective,figured out nearly every mystery inside 30 minutes. West's Batman didnt underestimate every villain like Bale's Batman did. He had a real bat cave. Had a real Robin.

Keaton and West were better than Bale.

Best thing about Nolan's Batman films were the villains.

#27 Posted by Justthatkid (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Well if you didn't know this but Batman does not make the gadgets.. But I do feel Batman was different in the Nolanverse compared to the comics. He gave away his parents home for example!!!

#28 Posted by sinestro_GL (3248 posts) - - Show Bio

The only real detective work, really, was the ballistics tests. Other than that...nothing significant that anyone else probably couldn't figure out with some deliberation.

#29 Edited by Jayc1324 (12796 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark_slayor: tell me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you expected a batman closer to the comics one, which wasn't what bales was supposed to be. In Nolan's world, batman was just a normal guy, which was te point because none of the many themes in his trilogy is that anyone can be batman, which was the point of batman as a symbol. But to stay on topic, he didnt really do much detective work besides the bullet

Online
#30 Posted by Wolverine08 (43640 posts) - - Show Bio

Because he didn't.

#31 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Because when a terrorist goes around blowing up buildings, it's not too difficult to figure out who did it.

And because comic book fans are f*cking idiots who think that Batman has to spend 45 minutes looking through files to be a detective. Never mind that being a detective means using all resources available to you and reaching the correct conclusion, which Batman did.

#32 Posted by TDK_1997 (14985 posts) - - Show Bio

Because the movies didn't have parts in which he should prove that he is the best detective alive.

#33 Posted by entropy_aegis (15453 posts) - - Show Bio

The first 30 minutes of Rises had him doing detective work,how do you think he figured out what Selina was after? he even tracked her right back to her home.

#34 Edited by chrisj_1 (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterdetective: So smart people don't use good resources they have easily available to them? That doesn't seem smart at all. Real life detectives have crime labs etc to study evidence why is Batman not allowed to? Does he have to just assume things? Plus I think the OP was just using that as an example. Batman interrogates enemies, is seen multiple times scouting around the city, recording police radio activity and hacking into their computer for info trying to figure out who the Joker is who Bane is as well as Catwoman.

#35 Posted by chrisj_1 (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: He gave away his parents home for example!!!

You forget the part where his parents were known philanthropists who worked to make the city a better place? Dude, giving away the house for use as an orphanage is exactly what his parents would want if Bruce decided he didn't want to live in the city anymore. Same as the idea of the Wayne Foundation, using their money for charity.

I'm starting to think you guys are just trying to find reasons to hate Nolan and Bale's Batman instead of hating him for a specific reason. Someone even mentioned how much better Adam West's was because he was 6'2" and solved mysteries in 30 minutes due to deus ex machina.

#36 Posted by Justthatkid (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@chrisj_1: I had no problem with the first 2 films and I wouldn't expect the movie to be highly comic book based the only thing Bales Batman had in common with the comic version is the dark setting and the name Batman, his parents might be happy or whatever you say but Bruce wouldn't have been able to do it, and he wouldn't have been able to stop being Batman so easy since that became a identity of his or a rebirth after his parents murder.

#37 Posted by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

So glad these "hipsters" who hate the Nolan films are an insignificant minority.

#38 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (11426 posts) - - Show Bio

@sugarnickvirga: Harold Allnut was making his gadgets and he was doing the Batmobile, is clear that Batman gadgets in Burton/Schumacher timeline were made by Alfred(Who must had powers to clean that giant ass house by itself).

Batman had retired several times in the comic books, the most famous case was Jean Paul Valley Batman time and also in Beyond, even when he could be back at being Batman he decide to let Terry to be Batman.

No, Keaton had no Bruce Wayne and its obvious wasnt more that the suit, was a terrible martial artist and let many of his gadgets do his job, had zero betective skills and is never shown to be as smart as people want to belive he was.

Again you fuse Burton Batman with Schumacher Batman, so far the best not West Batman under that concept is Val Kilmer, he was Bruce Wayne and Batman, didnt kill people, was an expert martial artist, understand science (explain how the Riddler machine work), has Robin, has a family and has real emotions.

The only thing they have in common is the time line, still is obvious people mix all the positive traits of this time line and give it to Burton and all the negative traits to Schumacher.

Stop watching Keaton in a way he never was.
@chrisj_1 said:

@justthatkid said:

@nickzambuto: He gave away his parents home for example!!!

You forget the part where his parents were known philanthropists who worked to make the city a better place? Dude, giving away the house for use as an orphanage is exactly what his parents would want if Bruce decided he didn't want to live in the city anymore. Same as the idea of the Wayne Foundation, using their money for charity.

I'm starting to think you guys are just trying to find reasons to hate Nolan and Bale's Batman instead of hating him for a specific reason. Someone even mentioned how much better Adam West's was because he was 6'2" and solved mysteries in 30 minutes due to deus ex machina.

#39 Edited by Justthatkid (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000: Batman Beyond is canon, The Jean Paul Valley case his back was broken.

#40 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (11426 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000: Batman Beyond is canon, The Jean Paul Valley case his back was broken.

Ok, Earth 2 Batman Silver Age Batman retired and married Catwoman, let Dick be Batman.

In Returns he retired and was back.

Kingdome Come.

Digital Justice.

Bruce decide to retire very often, people just decide to ignore all the times this happened.

Bruce one day has to continue his life without Batman and Batman without Bruce.

That dont mean i want to see it.

#41 Posted by Justthatkid (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000: Hmm I'll live with that then, but I really feel giving away his parents manor is out of character atleast not to Alfred or something. The boy home thing sounded genuine but I disliked it.

#42 Posted by MuyJingo (1792 posts) - - Show Bio

Nolan's Bruce Wayne was an idiot, with no detective skills, almost entirely dependent on Lucius and Alfred for assistance.

Remember in the first movie, where Lucius comes up with the antitoxin and tries to explain it to Bruce? Bruce's response is, "am I meant to understand any of that?". The answer is yes, because you're meant to be Batman.

There is no detective work because they took the name of the person who trained him to be a detective and reduced it to a pseudonym for ra's al ghul. The only detective element was in TDK, and it was a computer analyzing evidence. It wasn't showing Bruce as a detective at all, but simply someone with access to advanced technology. Much like Snyder does, really.

#43 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (6249 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23: Don't you hate it when people say he can't fight too.

#44 Edited by Dayvid3 (815 posts) - - Show Bio

Well he did the bullet forensics like everyone said. How much time in the movies do you expect them to devote to the boring crap. They could kill 6 hours of him doing a stakeout ready to pounce too. I always imagined a lot of that background work would be mind-numbingly boring. I kind of envision it like the first 20 seconds of this...http://www.hulu.com/watch/1150 (Tony Wonder in the dumbwaiter)

#45 Posted by Jayc1324 (12796 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo: batman should know that but not bruce wayne. What detective work did you want him to do? The joker was running around blowing crap up and killing people, where is detective work needed? Also it's boring to watch detective work Nd Nolan's batman was different from the comics batman

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#46 Posted by The Stegman (25021 posts) - - Show Bio

Bale's Batman was good enough, I'm not expecting him to pull out Sherlock level skills or anything.

#47 Edited by MuyJingo (1792 posts) - - Show Bio
#48 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (11426 posts) - - Show Bio

@muyjingo said:

@jayc1324 said:

@muyjingo: batman should know that but not bruce wayne.

Seriously?

It was a joke about Bruce Wayne being a character he uses so the world dont notice who Batman is, he is making a joke about the fact you dont understand that joke.

He hacked The Bat and fixed the problem by itself and again, HAROLD ALLNUT made his gadgets.

I was Lucius Fox, Before it was cool!!!
I was real, stop ignoring me!!!!

Real Life Detective Work is terribly boring in real life and looks nothing like TV Blues Clues For Adults Tv Shows AKA CSI.

#49 Posted by Breadspread (774 posts) - - Show Bio

His detective work shines against certain enemies. There wasn't much need for it in the Nolan movies. The was a bit, enough to keep me satisfied. This is one of the advantages to comic books, there's a lot more room for more story telling.

#50 Edited by time (5072 posts) - - Show Bio

He didn't seem smart in it, he was always looking for help or advice.

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