Why Batman shouldn't cross the line! DOTF and for future stories.

#1 Edited by ccraft (3962 posts) - - Show Bio

My thoughts on if Batman should kill.

Batman doesn't have to become a monster to fight bad guys. No matter how many bad guys he kills, there will always be more monsters. Fans of Batman remember things that Batman says in comics, like why he won't kill to fight crime. Changing Batman drastically won't create fresh stories, or even make him more interesting. Especially in DOTF, Scott didn't have to kill Alfred or even Joker to make the story compelling. What I thought was so great about DOTF was how Scott made us think Joker knew the Bat-families secret identities. At the end of Batman #17 how Bruce went to Arkham Asylum to prove to himself that Joker wasn't interested in Batman's secret identity, but only interested in Batman was pretty compelling. And the last panel, how Joker got the last laugh was great. This is what people should be discussing.

So... he plays Joker's own joke on him - claiming to know who Joker is - to get Joker to "kill himself" by forcing Batman to drop him.

Of course, last moment, Batman impulsively regrets it (hence the "no"). - Scott Snyder

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The 3 versions of Batman from Bruce's dreams. A killer Batman with a gun, a bestial Batman on strength-enhancing drugs and... The third sold his soul to the devil and destroyed Gotham. Which none of them are as interesting as the real Batman, so we don't need a killer Batman.

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Jeph Loeb wrote Jim Gordon really well in HUSH, and Jim explained why Batman should never cross that line. I wholeheartedly agree with what Jim and Batman said below.

Jim "You have to THINK about what you are doing. WHO and WHAT made you who you are. Your ROLE MODELS. The BELIEFS they instilled in you. And think of how the Joker could NEVER understand that. It's what makes him who HE is." and "I wouldn't let you do this when he shot my daughter... killed my WIFE. I don't know HOW I could stop you, but I won't let you throw your life away."

AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING HE SAYS

Jim " If Batman wanted to be a killer, he could have started long time ago. But, its a LINE. On one side we believe in the law. On the other... Sometimes, the LAW fails us." and "Batman, if you CROSS that line -- If you kill the Joker tonight -- I will LEAD the hunt to bring you to justice."and "In the eyes of the law... In MY eyes. You'll be no different than HIM."

Batman's inner thoughts [I made a promise on the grave of my parents that I would rid this city of the evil that took their lives.] [Tonight... I nearly became a part of that evil.]

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Batman and Robin New 52

Nobody "How long do we keep putting our monsters in dark holes and pray they never see the light of day?"

Batman "There'll ALWAYS be monsters, but I DON'T have to BECOME one to fight them."

Nobody "I'm a monster HUNTER, not a monster..."

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What do you think? Do you agree with article Brutal Honest article? She makes a few good points, but not enough reasons for Batman to kill in canon. Sorry Babs :D

#2 Posted by Skewer (325 posts) - - Show Bio

You really hit the nail on the head on this one! Good job!

#3 Posted by SupBatz (1480 posts) - - Show Bio

Well said. Agreed on all accounts.

Plus, there's just something inspiring about Batman's not crossing that line.

The ending of Arkham City really made me appreciate his principles a lot more.

Batman has the cure to the virus/infection that is going to kill the Joker and he's sort of taunting him about it. Joker jumps out to grab it rom the shadows, making Batman drop it. Joker begins to die and falls of the floor. And Batman says something along the lines of "You know what's funny? Even after every horrible thing you've done - all the deaths you've caused and the lives you've ruined - I'd still have given you the antidote." To which Joker replies something along the lines of "That is pretty funny." And he starts to laugh but dies.

That really spoke to me about the relationship between Batman and Joker and how noble Batman's not killing actually is. And when I think about that when considering Snyder's DoTF conclusion I come to appreciate it more.

#4 Posted by ccraft (3962 posts) - - Show Bio

@Skewer: Thanks, I just thought I'd remind Batman fans why he shouldn't. :)

#5 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1641 posts) - - Show Bio

Great article!

Loved the comment.

#6 Posted by ccraft (3962 posts) - - Show Bio

@Phaedrusgr:Thank you, a lot of people viewed the article but didn't have anything to say, but it's understand about, this argument has been going on for 2 weeks. So I'm glad you guys liked it.

#7 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really mind either way, so long as they do it well.

#8 Posted by consolemaster001 (4479 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: Nice job !

#9 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27397 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America has killed before and it hasn't turned him in to a raging maniac that wan't to kill all bad guys

#10 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (13903 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you, I thought I was the only person that thought like this.

#11 Posted by ccraft (3962 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: But Captain America is a soldier, it makes more sense for him to kill.

#12 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27397 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

@Jonny_Anonymous: But Captain America is a soldier, it makes more sense for him to kill.

but he's still the moral compass of the Marvel Universe

#13 Posted by ccraft (3962 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous:

I always figured Captain America kills when necessary, considering hes a soldier. I don't see why cap would vow never to kill when he signed up to fight the Nazis. Do you know why he said he'd never kill, before he started to?

I read his wiki awhile back and a few other comics like Civil War, but that's really it. To be honest, I just started comics when NEW 52 was around issue 10. But I still liked JL and Avengers before then. And the only MARVEL title on my pull is Savage Wolverine... I like MARVEL, but i'm not gonna drop any dc for them. Well... Deathstroke and Team 7 have been cancelled, so I might pick one up.

#14 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27397 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: Well I don't think Cap ever did say he would never kill, or if he did I must of missed it

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