Who Knows What? *Spoilers*

#1 Posted by romojk979 (15 posts) - - Show Bio

I seem to be the only person confused by Batman #14. As far as I knew, Joker knew who Batman was prior to New 52 and I assumed that carried over. I also find there to be no suspense in the issue. All of the characters listed at the end who's identities are in jeopardy have a continuous series-- which means obviously their identities won't be outed or the individual story-lines would be wrecked. I felt that the end was cheap and set up what I expect to be a low action, predictable arc. The only overly redeeming moments are from non-batman tie-ins. Especially at the end of Nightwing #14, when Raya is approached by the Joker. This gives me some hope that Joker does actually know that Dick is Nightwing, which means that maybe the Batman arc will still impress me.

Personally, I think the issue should have ended with Joker showing Batman Alfred's dead body. That would fit well with the new Joker, give the Batman comic family some new history, and shake things up quite a bit.

Don't get me wrong, I worship Snyder and love his work, I'm just trying to think things through.

#2 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

I totally get where you're coming from. Logically, what you're saying is sound. However, I don't think Scott would do something something boring or cliche, especially not for his ultimate Joker arc. I think he would make it seem like the arc is pointless, and then somehow make it interesting. I still don't think anyone in the Bat-family will die (although I suppose Alfred could), but I trust that Scott will do something to make the arc worth reading.

The month in between issues is agonizing. Why can't DC do biweekly stuff like Marvel?

#3 Posted by romojk979 (15 posts) - - Show Bio

The long wait between issues is boring and painful, but Scott has so much on his plate right now. He's in the middle of fairly massive arcs on Swamp Thing, Batman, and American Vampire. He also has that yet-to-be-named (Man of Steel) Superman comic in production for next year. In that sense, I'm more than happy to give him a month for planning purposes.

I just feel like someone has to die for the arc to sell it for me. Paying homage to the original A Death In The Family is gutsy in my opinion, and they'll have to up their game if they want to pull it off.

#4 Posted by danhimself (22493 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that saying that just because someone has an ongoing that their identity won't be outed or that they won't die is ridiculous....Batman had several ongoings and he "died", same with Captain America and Superman.....Spider-man had several ongoings and his identity was outed as well as several other heroes throughout the years....both things have happened before and they can and most likely will happen again

#5 Edited by romojk979 (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Good point. The identities outed thing just doesn't fit the vibe of the New 52 though.

#6 Posted by BatWatch (2610 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't worship anybody; it blinds you to their faults.

I am unconvinced on this story so far, but I am still open to the story turning around. Do not get me wrong, I do not think it has been bad so far...just less than great.

I think Joker's knowledge about Bruce has been ambiguous over the last few years. I do not know of anything that has ever shown he definitively knows his identity.

Higgins has hinted in tweets that Dick might not always be Nightwing...though I do not put much faith in that. Lobdell has said that Teen Titans will be greatly changed by the events of Death of a Family, so perhaps Tim could be killed or crippled. Of course, all of this is assuming that the writers are not lying to keep fans on their toes.

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.@romojk979 said:

The long wait between issues is boring and painful, but Scott has so much on his plate right now. He's in the middle of fairly massive arcs on Swamp Thing, Batman, and American Vampire. He also has that yet-to-be-named (Man of Steel) Superman comic in production for next year. In that sense, I'm more than happy to give him a month for planning purposes.

I just feel like someone has to die for the arc to sell it for me. Paying homage to the original A Death In The Family is gutsy in my opinion, and they'll have to up their game if they want to pull it off.

I would actually prefer it if the family died in its union rather than through a death. That would be much more interesting in my view.

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

#7 Posted by batshrine (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatWatch: I agree I don't understand why people are so set on someone dying when the arc is called "Death of a Family" thats the family not death of someone in the family. So I definitely think it would be more interesting if rifts were created so other authors would see if they want to mend them or increase them. That paves way for some great stories.

As far as lobdell's comment (who I am convinced is tying with Nocenti for being the two worst writers in DC's employ at the moment) I think he is alluding to Raven joining the team.

#8 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@batshrine said:

@BatWatch: I agree I don't understand why people are so set on someone dying when the arc is called "Death of a Family" thats the family not death of someone in the family. So I definitely think it would be more interesting if rifts were created so other authors would see if they want to mend them or increase them. That paves way for some great stories.

The question is, what would break the family apart? If Alfred dies, would they break apart? Or does it have to do with the secret in Joker's bat-book?

#9 Edited by Stormbox (2001 posts) - - Show Bio

@batshrine said:

@BatWatch: I agree I don't understand why people are so set on someone dying when the arc is called "Death of a Family" thats the family not death of someone in the family. So I definitely think it would be more interesting if rifts were created so other authors would see if they want to mend them or increase them. That paves way for some great stories.

As far as lobdell's comment (who I am convinced is tying with Nocenti for being the two worst writers in DC's employ at the moment) I think he is alluding to Raven joining the team.

I think youre being a little naive, i mean yeah it would be nice if nobody died, but comics nowadays sell because of various things: famous characters, favorite authors and various twists, which include deaths

Deaths are a joke for comic characters, but the publishers still try to take advantage of this, especially because its true no matter how much people complain. For example if alfred did die, im pretty sure it would be one of the best selling batman issues of the new 52 (and maybe even beyond) for the publicity alone

Add that to the fact that a title like death of the family sets off an alarm in a lot of peoples heads, and you got yourself an overused yet genius marketing idea

#10 Posted by batshrine (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stormbox: So we should expect cheap writing and a gimmicky stunt from scott snyder? Yes I know death causes huge sales in comics, thats why so many characters die (multiple times). But there are many twists that comics can take and have it not be death. Here are a few just from Batman story lines:

Crippling a character: Knightfall, Killing Joke (no one dies in that one either btw...), Office Down

Bringing a character back: The Return of Bruce Wayne, Under the Red Hood, DEATH OF A FAMILY

Breaking a character away: Bruce Wayne: Murderer, Judas Contract, Red Robin

Character taking up a mantle: way to many to count with anyone becoming Robin, Batgirl, or Batman

Surprise Family: Court of Owls (maybe), Batwoman: Elegy, Under the Red Hood, Batman and Son, and I know this isn't a comic but JLU Epilogue

Hiding a Past Crime: Isn't this what Identity Crisis was all about?

And more possibilities like someone becoming a traitor to the family (kinda like that one cop in Dark Knight when she sold out Harvey Dent to save her relative in the hospital), or someone wants to quit crime fighting.

Now I am no brilliant comic writer, so I have no idea what Scott Snyder is planning on doing. But I am hoping it sticks to the premise where it shakes up the Batman family. Killing off a character may bring in big bucks, but its the most overused cheap gimmick in comics now. In fact the two most worthless things in comic worlds are important people's lives, and marriages. However I do think that there are stories that will bring in big bucks without killing off a major character. In fact Batman # 14 sold almost just as much as Batman #1 and it just teased a death (meaning there was no death but people still want to buy it). In fact the only reason why people are buying it is cause if there is one thing more popular than prep Batman, is Omniscient Joker.

So yes there is a chance that someone will die, I however have faith in good writers and hope that he will come up with something far more thrilling.

#11 Posted by Stormbox (2001 posts) - - Show Bio

@batshrine: Hey, im just saying what ive seen during all these years, no need to get so worked up

#12 Posted by batshrine (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stormbox: Not getting worked up, just showing that my hopes aren't me being naive, and actually wanting good writing. Now I do understand where you are coming from. Just next time if you can, avoid calling someone naive (or any of its synonyms), and just get to your point.

#13 Posted by BatWatch (2610 posts) - - Show Bio

@batshrine said:

@BatWatch: I agree I don't understand why people are so set on someone dying when the arc is called "Death of a Family" thats the family not death of someone in the family. So I definitely think it would be more interesting if rifts were created so other authors would see if they want to mend them or increase them. That paves way for some great stories.

As far as lobdell's comment (who I am convinced is tying with Nocenti for being the two worst writers in DC's employ at the moment) I think he is alluding to Raven joining the team.

Whoa! I hate what Lobdell did to Tim and The Culling, and I find his complete Teen Titans run to be trash up until the current arc, but I would not accuse him of being on Nocenti's level. Lobdell had never produced a comic as bad as that last Catwoman, and I really enjoy Red Hood and the Outlaws.

You and I are on the same page with "Death of a Family."

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

@gotwillpower said:

@batshrine said:

@BatWatch: I agree I don't understand why people are so set on someone dying when the arc is called "Death of a Family" thats the family not death of someone in the family. So I definitely think it would be more interesting if rifts were created so other authors would see if they want to mend them or increase them. That paves way for some great stories.

The question is, what would break the family apart? If Alfred dies, would they break apart? Or does it have to do with the secret in Joker's bat-book?

I'm guessing it will tie in to the secret. I have a lot theories, but none that are particularly founded on anything. I doubt DC would do it, but it would be interesting if Bruce had killed in the past. Everyone would feel betrayed for living up to a standard that Bruce himself had violated, and just think how ticked off Jason would be that Joker was still alive.

I think one interesting way the family could die is if Bruce lost his fortune...if it was the Wayne legacy that died. That would majorly shake up the family.

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

@Stormbox said:

@batshrine said:

@BatWatch: I agree I don't understand why people are so set on someone dying when the arc is called "Death of a Family" thats the family not death of someone in the family. So I definitely think it would be more interesting if rifts were created so other authors would see if they want to mend them or increase them. That paves way for some great stories.

As far as lobdell's comment (who I am convinced is tying with Nocenti for being the two worst writers in DC's employ at the moment) I think he is alluding to Raven joining the team.

I think youre being a little naive, i mean yeah it would be nice if nobody died, but comics nowadays sell because of various things: famous characters, favorite authors and various twists, which include deaths

Deaths are a joke for comic characters, but the publishers still try to take advantage of this, especially because its true no matter how much people complain. For example if alfred did die, im pretty sure it would be one of the best selling batman issues of the new 52 (and maybe even beyond) for the publicity alone

Add that to the fact that a title like death of the family sets off an alarm in a lot of peoples heads, and you got yourself an overused yet genius marketing idea

I do not particularly disagree with on any points except the idea that I am being naive. I see everything you just mentioned, but I just do not think a death is required just because of a name title which does not even really suggest it.

#14 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatWatch: The more I think about it, the more I realize that I care less about the story and more about the end reveal. If it's not amazingly fantastic...this arc might not be that great.

#15 Posted by Stormbox (2001 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatWatch: Ok, ok. Like i said, just repeatin what ive seen

Id like to be optimistic, but the comic folk is a bloodthirsty folk nowadays and you know it

#16 Edited by JoeEddie (483 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like this story is going to be a let down. There are only three more issues in the arc and Snyder did not really doing anything with Batman #14. I am not even exciting or looking forward to Batman #15. Yes, I will still buy it when it comes out but the excitement is just not there. If the big reveal of the story is that Joker knows Batman's identity then Snyder should not have even touched the Joker if that is all he can come up with. Finding out the secret identity is cliche and it will probably be retconned in the future. Riddler comes to mind for an example and I am sure there are several other examples as well.

@BatWatch said:

I'm guessing it will tie in to the secret. I have a lot theories, but none that are particularly founded on anything. I doubt DC would do it, but it would be interesting if Bruce had killed in the past. Everyone would feel betrayed for living up to a standard that Bruce himself had violated, and just think how ticked off Jason would be that Joker was still alive.

Would love to see this. Bruce needs more tragedy in his life after the retcons of Jason's death and Barbara's paralysis.

#17 Edited by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@gotwillpower said:

I totally get where you're coming from. Logically, what you're saying is sound. However, I don't think Scott would do something something boring or cliche, especially not for his ultimate Joker arc. I think he would make it seem like the arc is pointless, and then somehow make it interesting. I still don't think anyone in the Bat-family will die (although I suppose Alfred could), but I trust that Scott will do something to make the arc worth reading.

The month in between issues is agonizing. Why can't DC do biweekly stuff like Marvel?

Because DC realizes that a lot of people buy several series and cant afford to spend double the money a month on one series. Marvel wants to double the money they get on there known cash cows just to keep up with the new 52. So, unless the only book you buy is batman. I suggest you rethink that for a moment

#18 Posted by kev_haughian (1 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it will tear the family apart not kill anyone it did say batman was keeping a big secret the family will probs leave because they think they won't be able to trust him anymore that's my opinion

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.