Which Batman Do You Find More Interesting: Sane or Insane

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#1 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

There are two psychological versions of Batman: Sane and Insane.

Sane

In the sane interpretation, Bruce Wayne become Batman because he HAS to. He has no other choice. This is the version that we see in the Dark Knight trilogy. He can't work through the police because they are too corrupt. And works of philanthropy alone cannot save Gotham. Like any sane human being, he doesn't want to keep being Batman forever. He hopes that Harvey Dent can take over for him. He hopes that John Blake can take over for him. He knows that Gotham needs Batman, but he doesn't want the job forever. He has great, sane rationale for dressing up in a Bat costume and taking out thugs.

Insane

In the insane interpretation, Bruce Wayne is usually hinted at not being mentally stable. He becomes Batman because he is COMPELLED to. He would kill himself otherwise. This is the version that we see in Batman: Year One (still canon), Batman: Earth One, Michael Keaton's Batman, and Allstar Batman. In Batman: Year One, he nearly kills himself until he gets inspiration from a Bat.

In Batman: Earth One, Bruce doesn't have a reason for dressing like a Bat other than to protect is identity and find his parents killers--there's a real disconnect there. Why didn't he end up like Harvey Bullock or Jim Gordan and try to clean the GCPD from the inside out? Why did he dress like a Bat and take the law into his own hands? He's a little off. He's crazy. His mother is from a long line of people (The Arkhams), who have gone insane.

A lot of writers (Miller, Morrison, Johns, etc.) seem to love telling tales about the insane Batman. But I personally prefer the sane interpretation of the character. Not to bash anyone with mental illness, but having Batman be insane takes away from the character for me. He seems like he's less than us, when he should be the best of us. The story of a normal man training to become a hero because of his sense of responsibility is nullified by the insane interpretation. But that's just my opinion.

Which Batman do you prefer: Sane or Insane?

#2 Posted by AweSam (7375 posts) - - Show Bio

The one that kidnaps a young teen and forces him to become his sidekick.

#3 Posted by TheAmazingImmortalMan (3127 posts) - - Show Bio

Insane....it makes things more interesting

#4 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

Insane

#5 Posted by SupBatz (1734 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman isn't insane. He's a fanatic. And that's the way I like him.

#6 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Sane.

#7 Edited by ArtGamer (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam:

---------------------------------------

@SupBatz said:

Batman isn't insane. He's a fanatic. And that's the way I like him.

^This.

#8 Posted by batshrine (994 posts) - - Show Bio

So let me get this straight, in one version of Batman he becomes Batman because he feels like he needs to. And in another form of Batman he becomes Batman because he needs too? They seem the same to me.

I can go on saying that he isn't insane (at least in main stream comics). The way many use the word insane they tend to mean, stupid, weird, different, or I would never do that! But I can promise you I haven't seen him as mentally ill. The man notorious for being prepared for everything cannot be mentally ill, just high strung. Someone that is insane is more like someone suffering from depression bipolarity, or to the extreme of schizophrenia.

The thing that you are tackling seems to be whether we prefer a Batman that wants to get out of it or not. And there are many story lines that address this issue. In fact in the Knightfall story arc he was content with staying as Bruce Wayne, its when Tim Drake convinced him that Azrael is actually an awful Batman that he took it up to defeat him. And you mention Year One, how bout you compare it to Batman Begins. When in Batman Begins do you hear him mention that he doesn't want to be Batman? As far as Dark Knight, his motivation to not be Batman is because he found love and his only way to have it would be to stop. Does that sound familiar? Because Batman has tried that multiple times, the most prominent I'll be honest was Mask of the Phantasm, and I may be mistaken but also with Silver St. Cloud (though if someone can confirm this that would be awesome).

Or maybe your argument is what do you prefer poorly written Batman, or not? Because let me inform you, Michael Keaton's Batman, Earth One, and Allstar are all REALLY REALLY bad interpretations of Batman (I actually can't speak for Earth One since I haven't read it though).

Michael Keaton's Batman (the character, not the movie cause I still enjoy the movie) killed. Which is rule number one of Batmans.

Allstar Batman or more like Frank Miller, is a sexist racist big, which I promise isn't Batman.

And Nolan's Batman sure didn't kill...but he definitely didn't save some people's lives either. I LOVE Nolan's movies and I will rewatch them all the time. But second to "the Goddamn Batman" my least favorite quote in history of Batman has got to be, "I won't kill you, but that doesn't mean I have to save you." Because that is fancy for "I am killing you." Just nitpicking.

My point is everyone interprets Batman differently, but the key is to get to his core which Nolan did a great job. And many comic writers do to. He is a multifaceted character so it isn't fair to call Batman who is drugged up and hallucinating Batman of Zurr-An-Arr insane.

And as for your final point on you prefer a Batman that doesn't want to do the job, I will actually argue against that. I love his drive, and his motivation because he is one of the few superheroes that have that. Unlike Superman who is all "oh I am super strong better make the most of it!" Batman has a purpose and a goal.

So to answer the question of this thread, which Batman do I prefer sane or insane? I prefer Batman.

#9 Posted by ratman19 (525 posts) - - Show Bio

i prefer a batman who is cold and calculating but is still likable. i hate frank miller's batman books because he makes batman unlikable.i know everybody likes "The Dark Knight Returns" but i hated it. i thought "Year One" was alright. but "The Dark Knight Strikes Again" and "All Star Batman and Robin" were terrible. scott snyders current run on batman is how i want batman's personality to be.

#10 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (10798 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate Insane Batman he screams at people he is THE GODDAMN BATMAN to the point it gets annoying as hell.

Also under the idea that many people has about what insane mean, the cops, firemen and doctors are insane.

#11 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

i like batman who is like the animated tv series voiced by kevin conroy and in the arkham asylum games. i haven't read the new 52 batman yet, but i will soon.

#12 Posted by DougCL (39 posts) - - Show Bio

i like a batman who struggles with his sanity occasionally, but is usually in control. i liked how he started to lose his grip in the maze in the Court Of Owls arc, but was otherwise calm and collected, if a bit obsessive. otherwise i mpstly enjoy batman being the point of stability in an otherwise insane situation, or batman arcs that explore the insanity in other characters, or the insanity of gotham itself.

#13 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the Nolan Batman and the TAS/JLU version (they are the same person). The JLU Batman was cold with a hint of humour. Nolan's Batman was fast and tough on crime.

#14 Posted by nickzambuto (13661 posts) - - Show Bio

@batshrine said:

So let me get this straight, in one version of Batman he becomes Batman because he feels like he needs to. And in another form of Batman he becomes Batman because he needs too? They seem the same to me.

I can go on saying that he isn't insane (at least in main stream comics). The way many use the word insane they tend to mean, stupid, weird, different, or I would never do that! But I can promise you I haven't seen him as mentally ill. The man notorious for being prepared for everything cannot be mentally ill, just high strung. Someone that is insane is more like someone suffering from depression bipolarity, or to the extreme of schizophrenia.

The thing that you are tackling seems to be whether we prefer a Batman that wants to get out of it or not. And there are many story lines that address this issue. In fact in the Knightfall story arc he was content with staying as Bruce Wayne, its when Tim Drake convinced him that Azrael is actually an awful Batman that he took it up to defeat him. And you mention Year One, how bout you compare it to Batman Begins. When in Batman Begins do you hear him mention that he doesn't want to be Batman? As far as Dark Knight, his motivation to not be Batman is because he found love and his only way to have it would be to stop. Does that sound familiar? Because Batman has tried that multiple times, the most prominent I'll be honest was Mask of the Phantasm, and I may be mistaken but also with Silver St. Cloud (though if someone can confirm this that would be awesome).

Or maybe your argument is what do you prefer poorly written Batman, or not? Because let me inform you, Michael Keaton's Batman, Earth One, and Allstar are all REALLY REALLY bad interpretations of Batman (I actually can't speak for Earth One since I haven't read it though).

Michael Keaton's Batman (the character, not the movie cause I still enjoy the movie) killed. Which is rule number one of Batmans.

Allstar Batman or more like Frank Miller, is a sexist racist big, which I promise isn't Batman.

And Nolan's Batman sure didn't kill...but he definitely didn't save some people's lives either. I LOVE Nolan's movies and I will rewatch them all the time. But second to "the Goddamn Batman" my least favorite quote in history of Batman has got to be, "I won't kill you, but that doesn't mean I have to save you." Because that is fancy for "I am killing you." Just nitpicking.

My point is everyone interprets Batman differently, but the key is to get to his core which Nolan did a great job. And many comic writers do to. He is a multifaceted character so it isn't fair to call Batman who is drugged up and hallucinating Batman of Zurr-An-Arr insane.

And as for your final point on you prefer a Batman that doesn't want to do the job, I will actually argue against that. I love his drive, and his motivation because he is one of the few superheroes that have that. Unlike Superman who is all "oh I am super strong better make the most of it!" Batman has a purpose and a goal.

So to answer the question of this thread, which Batman do I prefer sane or insane? I prefer Batman.

See, I was completely with you... until this

And as for your final point on you prefer a Batman that doesn't want to do the job, I will actually argue against that. I love his drive, and his motivation because he is one of the few superheroes that have that. Unlike Superman who is all "oh I am super strong better make the most of it!" Batman has a purpose and a goal.

Come on now dude.

#15 Posted by Dhor (282 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratman19: me too . i like the fact the he doesen`t always show emotions but he`s not a jerk to everyone around him. and the fact that he cares deeply for his (extended) familly is a great .

#16 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio

Love em both equally.

#17 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33395 posts) - - Show Bio

Everybody is a little bit insane 

Online
#18 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@batshrine: I agree that Batman isn't mentally ill in any way. He might be obsessed, but that's just a part of accomplishing his goals.

#19 Posted by batshrine (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: In all fairness that was a bit uncalled for on my part. I love Superman, just trying to make the example that Batman's motivation is integral to his characterization. Without it, he isn't nearly as interesting.

#20 Posted by YMCMB (160 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the idea that Batman is kinda borderline insane. He's a rich guy that can have anything he wants but instead he goes out every night dressed as a Bat to fight an endless war against crime. He knows he can never completely rid Gotham of crime, but regardless he'll never give up his war until he has. He's constantly fighting criminals and throwing them in jail, only for them to break out so he'll have to fight them and throw them in jail again. He's trapped in a cycle, fighting a war he can never win and he's grown super paranoid throughout the years, planning back-up plans for his back-up plans. To me this doesn't seem like a completely sane person. I don't like a version of Batman where he's crazy enough to fit in with the Arkham inmates, but I think he might be just a little bit insane.

#21 Posted by MystiqueBelinsky (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Sane.

#22 Posted by sinestro_GL (3152 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting? Of course the answer is insane.

Which do I prefer? The sane version.

#23 Posted by Dark_Slayor (212 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude, Batman is totally insane. If he isn't totally insane, then he is as close to it without being locked up in a padded room with a straight jacket. There's no way a regular man with untold amounts of money, travels aboard, trains his mind and body to perfection, dresses up as a bat(in spandex mind you) at night, and fights crime with gadgets made from cutting technology, can be totally sane.

IMO he's only a small stepping stone above the very villians he locks up at Arkham. Thats what I like about the character, that he is insane.

#24 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (10798 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dark_Slayor: Wolverine is insane, evidence:

He kills

He drinks

He smokes

He watched two brothers having sex

Try to have sex with Mary Jane when she was 16

And i dont see everybody caring, what show the rest of the Marvel universe is insane.

The thing is that Batman, is like a cop or a fireman, he wants to help people, but he know he cant do that as a man, when he try it he failed, so he need to be more a symbol.

He would be insane if he wouldnt retire, but in Knightfall he did, he was back becuase the guy that replace him was insane, he retire when he notice he couldnt be Batman in Batman Beyond, then he let Terry became Batman, got young once and still let Terry be Batman, In Rises he let John Blake became the new Batman, in The Dark Knight Returns he retires for years and is only back because Gotham need it.

Bruce isnt Insane, or at least not more insane that Spiderman.

#25 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry I'm resurrecting an old thread, but I think it's relevant considering we saw a different interpretation of Bruce in the first scene of Batman #19. If you read that issue like me, you might have thought that Bruce Wayne had gone insane--probably from Damian's death (Spoilers from the issue: until you found out it was just Clayface). Personally, it made me realize that I like Batman when he's insane. It's captivating. I wouldn't want Bruce to be characterized by insanity, but seeing moments here and there certainly make each issue interesting.

#26 Posted by UncleEmu (179 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see a difference between your sane and insane versions. In the sane version he is obsessed, and in the insane version he is obsessed. Any person who goes around in a bat suit fighting people is violating the norms of society, but this is an intentional violation, so I don't think it makes him crazy.

#27 Edited by M_Man (644 posts) - - Show Bio

Well the term "insane" is relative. What may seem insane by our standards could be perfectly acceptable in another culture whether that culture is in a different part of the world, in the past, or even the future. Personally I prefer him to be "insane" because the only way to strive in life is to have a mind and ideas outside the social norm IMO.

"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius

#28 Edited by SUNMAN (7239 posts) - - Show Bio

To be clear, insanity is a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition:

Insanity. n.: mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

Insanity is a concept discussed in court to help distinguish guilt from innocence. It's informed by mental health professionals, but the term today is primarily legal, not psychological. There's no "insane" diagnosis listed in the DSM. There's no "nervous breakdown" either, but that's another topic.

Batman has issues but he has never been insane. I'd argue the samw for the Joker who in the real world wouldn't meet the definition either

#29 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (10798 posts) - - Show Bio

@sunman said:

To be clear, insanity is a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition:

Insanity. n.: mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

Insanity is a concept discussed in court to help distinguish guilt from innocence. It's informed by mental health professionals, but the term today is primarily legal, not psychological. There's no "insane" diagnosis listed in the DSM. There's no "nervous breakdown" either, but that's another topic.

Batman has issues but he has never been insane. I'd argue the same for the Joker who in the real world wouldn't meet the definition either

People belive that having issues is what make him insane.

The Joker and Batman knows what they do and why they do it, to be honest, the main problem is that they dont act in the "normal" way and for that reason people belive they are insane.

Also in some culture beat the crap of your wife is a ways of showing them you love them, those that mean all his culture is insane?, No it means is another culture.

#30 Posted by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

And Nolan's Batman sure didn't kill...but he definitely didn't save some people's lives either. I LOVE Nolan's movies and I will rewatch them all the time. But second to "the Goddamn Batman" my least favorite quote in history of Batman has got to be, "I won't kill you, but that doesn't mean I have to save you." Because that is fancy for "I am killing you." Just nitpicking.

No is not. What Batman did there was a moral philosophy called doing and allowing. Batman killing would be based on another most likely utilitarianism.

He knows that Gotham needs Batman, but he doesn't want the job forever. He has great, sane rationale for dressing up in a Bat costume and taking out thugs.

There is no sane reason for dressing up like a bat.

#31 Posted by thejman251 (435 posts) - - Show Bio

There are two psychological versions of Batman: Sane and Insane.

Sane

In the sane interpretation, Bruce Wayne become Batman because he HAS to. He has no other choice. This is the version that we see in the Dark Knight trilogy. He can't work through the police because they are too corrupt. And works of philanthropy alone cannot save Gotham. Like any sane human being, he doesn't want to keep being Batman forever. He hopes that Harvey Dent can take over for him. He hopes that John Blake can take over for him. He knows that Gotham needs Batman, but he doesn't want the job forever. He has great, sane rationale for dressing up in a Bat costume and taking out thugs.

Insane

In the insane interpretation, Bruce Wayne is usually hinted at not being mentally stable. He becomes Batman because he is COMPELLED to. He would kill himself otherwise. This is the version that we see in Batman: Year One (still canon), Batman: Earth One, Michael Keaton's Batman, and Allstar Batman. In Batman: Year One, he nearly kills himself until he gets inspiration from a Bat.

In Batman: Earth One, Bruce doesn't have a reason for dressing like a Bat other than to protect is identity and find his parents killers--there's a real disconnect there. Why didn't he end up like Harvey Bullock or Jim Gordan and try to clean the GCPD from the inside out? Why did he dress like a Bat and take the law into his own hands? He's a little off. He's crazy. His mother is from a long line of people (The Arkhams), who have gone insane.

A lot of writers (Miller, Morrison, Johns, etc.) seem to love telling tales about the insane Batman. But I personally prefer the sane interpretation of the character. Not to bash anyone with mental illness, but having Batman be insane takes away from the character for me. He seems like he's less than us, when he should be the best of us. The story of a normal man training to become a hero because of his sense of responsibility is nullified by the insane interpretation. But that's just my opinion.

Which Batman do you prefer: Sane or Insane?

- I would honestly have to disagree.

- I'd have to say there's one interpretation of Batman and that would be insane.

- I honestly don't see how Batman is sane in any way. However, the extremity in which the writers convey this may differ but i still believe that Batman always was and still is completely insane.

#32 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio
@sunman said:

To be clear, insanity is a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition:

Insanity. n.: mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

Insanity is a concept discussed in court to help distinguish guilt from innocence. It's informed by mental health professionals, but the term today is primarily legal, not psychological. There's no "insane" diagnosis listed in the DSM. There's no "nervous breakdown" either, but that's another topic.

Batman has issues but he has never been insane. I'd argue the samw for the Joker who in the real world wouldn't meet the definition either

I think it was during the trial of Daredevil in Bendis' run, but Matt Murdock was uncontrollably drawn to going out as Daredevil one night (despite the dangers of being Daredevil while the case was progressing). Perhaps that could be considered insanity?

Anyways, in my post, what I really mean by insanity is intense stress. In the Court of Owls (SPOILERS), he is under a lot of stress, and I found his dialogue more interesting than when he is calm. For example, the maze dialogue, compared to Bruce's dialogue in Batman #17, is just more fun for me to read. Of course, if Bruce was under this intense stress all of the time, the dialogue would probably get pretty old. Do you guys understand what I mean?

#33 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (10798 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz said:
@batshrine said:

And Nolan's Batman sure didn't kill...but he definitely didn't save some people's lives either. I LOVE Nolan's movies and I will rewatch them all the time. But second to "the Goddamn Batman" my least favorite quote in history of Batman has got to be, "I won't kill you, but that doesn't mean I have to save you." Because that is fancy for "I am killing you." Just nitpicking.

No is not. What Batman did there was a moral philosophy called doing and allowing. Batman killing would be based on another most likely utilitarianism.

@superdork said:

He knows that Gotham needs Batman, but he doesn't want the job forever. He has great, sane rationale for dressing up in a Bat costume and taking out thugs.

There is no sane reason for dressing up like a bat.

There is, people never fear him as a human and he needs to be a myth and a symbol, something bigger that a man.

There is a reason, why the cops use an uniform?

@sunman said:

To be clear, insanity is a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition:

Insanity. n.: mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

Insanity is a concept discussed in court to help distinguish guilt from innocence. It's informed by mental health professionals, but the term today is primarily legal, not psychological. There's no "insane" diagnosis listed in the DSM. There's no "nervous breakdown" either, but that's another topic.

Batman has issues but he has never been insane. I'd argue the samw for the Joker who in the real world wouldn't meet the definition either

I think it was during the trial of Daredevil in Bendis' run, but Matt Murdock was uncontrollably drawn to going out as Daredevil one night (despite the dangers of being Daredevil while the case was progressing). Perhaps that could be considered insanity?

Anyways, in my post, what I really mean by insanity is intense stress. In the Court of Owls (SPOILERS), he is under a lot of stress, and I found his dialogue more interesting than when he is calm. For example, the maze dialogue, compared to Bruce's dialogue in Batman #17, is just more fun for me to read. Of course, if Bruce was under this intense stress all of the time, the dialogue would probably get pretty old. Do you guys understand what I mean?

Yes and its called THE GODDAMN BATMAN!!!

Also is amazing that a 16 years old boy gets in a spider costume and that is totally sane, and adult gets inside of a bat cotume and he is insane.

That make no sense to me.

#34 Posted by SUNMAN (7239 posts) - - Show Bio

@sunman said:

To be clear, insanity is a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition:

Insanity. n.: mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

Insanity is a concept discussed in court to help distinguish guilt from innocence. It's informed by mental health professionals, but the term today is primarily legal, not psychological. There's no "insane" diagnosis listed in the DSM. There's no "nervous breakdown" either, but that's another topic.

Batman has issues but he has never been insane. I'd argue the samw for the Joker who in the real world wouldn't meet the definition either

I think it was during the trial of Daredevil in Bendis' run, but Matt Murdock was uncontrollably drawn to going out as Daredevil one night (despite the dangers of being Daredevil while the case was progressing). Perhaps that could be considered insanity?

Anyways, in my post, what I really mean by insanity is intense stress. In the Court of Owls (SPOILERS), he is under a lot of stress, and I found his dialogue more interesting than when he is calm. For example, the maze dialogue, compared to Bruce's dialogue in Batman #17, is just more fun for me to read. Of course, if Bruce was under this intense stress all of the time, the dialogue would probably get pretty old. Do you guys understand what I mean?

you could make that argument I suppose. I don't recall that story so I can't really weigh in on it.

well yeah I personally think it makes the stories more interesting and entertaining when Batman is under a lot of stress. Not all the time mind you otherwise it gets old, but for certain stories it works very well

#35 Edited by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000: There is a difference between a batsuit and an uniform. I didn't say he didn't need a uniform nor that he didn't need to cover his identity/face. However the bats has everything to do with a trauma as a kid and very little to do with wanted to be an urban myth scare people. That just happen a long the way. Batman has a batfetish and has never coped his parents dead. Even though batman is on the right side of the law (or is he?). He is does belongs to Arkham.

#36 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (10798 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz: He uses the bat to scare people, no one would fear him with a uniform, people fears animals, i know in the comics he uses to many bat related thing, but that because the artist dont notice they do that, also notice the fact people hates the tumbler because dont looks like a bat.

They like the horrible Burton one, that sucked as a car and make him look like an idiot.

Also, at this point Batman he isnt doing it for his dead parents

He is doing it because is his mission and what he has to do.

He found a cause to live and die for, how that means he is insane?

People overlook that Batman isnt Burton Batman or Miller Batman, those guys are the insane ones that never get up from the floor when their parents die.

He is in control of what he does and why he does it.

He is more sane that us.

#37 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a false dichotomy. I like a tortured soul Batman. He's not "insane" but he's not the most stable of individuals either.

#38 Posted by PaperDemon (610 posts) - - Show Bio

Insane is more interesting but...

SANE IS BETTER!

#39 Posted by RustyRoy (12715 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Morrison's Batman, he isn't insane,he's cold, calculating and one step ahead of every one.

#40 Posted by fury714 (589 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz: He uses the bat to scare people, no one would fear him with a uniform, people fears animals, i know in the comics he uses to many bat related thing, but that because the artist dont notice they do that, also notice the fact people hates the tumbler because dont looks like a bat.

They like the horrible Burton one, that sucked as a car and make him look like an idiot.

Also, at this point Batman he isnt doing it for his dead parents

He is doing it because is his mission and what he has to do.

He found a cause to live and die for, how that means he is insane?

People overlook that Batman isnt Burton Batman or Miller Batman, those guys are the insane ones that never get up from the floor when their parents die.

He is in control of what he does and why he does it.

He is more sane that us.

He puts on the batman costume because he was in a batcave as a child. He could have choice whatever outfit put he choice to be a bat. Punisher is pretty feared and he is running around in a T-shirt with a skull on. Pretty simple. Also Bruce motives to fight crimes is grounded in that he lost his parents. If bruce didn't lose his parents as a child he wouldn't have become batman. Batman is in no way rational, logic or balanced as a person and clearly has his own issues. The reason why batman is so interesting is that he is very most like his villains he just fight crimes instead of doing them.

#42 Posted by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

I can appreciate both, but I prefer my Batman sane. He's not the World's Greatest Detective when he's insane.

#43 Posted by roboadmiral (546 posts) - - Show Bio

In most versions I've seen of Batman, I don't think he would qualify as insane. He doesn't seem to be under the effects of any delusions or hallucinations. All evidence suggests he sees and perceives the world the way we do and his mind operates on the same basic logic as we do. Is he traumatized and prone to certain instabilities? Almost certainly, but "insane" is at best hyperbole judging by most interpretations of the character.

It is to the reader's benefit for Batman to be sane. Insane people traditionally make very poor protagonists. They become unsympathetic because their actions and motives are incoherent and illogical. Why did he do this? Because he's insane.

#44 Edited by drgnx (3564 posts) - - Show Bio

What was ever sane about Batman to begin with?

If you ask me it more like BatSh*tCrazyMan

#45 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (10798 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz: His parent where saved by Batman once, then Bruce Wayne from that dimension decide to be Batman because Batman saved his parents.

Also, notice that everybody knows the Punisher is a normal human that use guns, there is no way he is a symbol, everybody knows he is human and his name, he is not a legend and everybody knows he is real.

People fear him because he is going to kill them, but he has never being a symbol of hope, Batman need that people belive thing will get better, also everybody knows they can kill the Punisher, they dont know this thing about Batman.

Batman decide his own actions as much as most of people, he has problem that is for sure, but having problems dont mean you are insane.

#46 Posted by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

@tupiaz: His parent where saved by Batman once, then Bruce Wayne from that dimension decide to be Batman because Batman saved his parents.

Also, notice that everybody knows the Punisher is a normal human that use guns, there is no way he is a symbol, everybody knows he is human and his name, he is not a legend and everybody knows he is real.

People fear him because he is going to kill them, but he has never being a symbol of hope, Batman need that people belive thing will get better, also everybody knows they can kill the Punisher, they dont know this thing about Batman.

Batman decide his own actions as much as most of people, he has problem that is for sure, but having problems dont mean you are insane.

1. That doesn't sond as the official story.

2. A human with guns can easily be a symbol. You don't have to walk around in cape to be a symbol.

3.Nice claim however no prove(sources). I think most people believe batman can be killed.

4. The boarder between mentally ill and insane is thin.

#47 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2145 posts) - - Show Bio

I find insane is more fun to read but can get a bit boring

#48 Posted by RustyRoy (12715 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dark_Slayor: Wolverine is insane, evidence:

He kills

He drinks

He smokes

He watched two brothers having sex

Try to have sex with Mary Jane when she was 16

And i dont see everybody caring, what show the rest of the Marvel universe is insane.

The thing is that Batman, is like a cop or a fireman, he wants to help people, but he know he cant do that as a man, when he try it he failed, so he need to be more a symbol.

He would be insane if he wouldnt retire, but in Knightfall he did, he was back becuase the guy that replace him was insane, he retire when he notice he couldnt be Batman in Batman Beyond, then he let Terry became Batman, got young once and still let Terry be Batman, In Rises he let John Blake became the new Batman, in The Dark Knight Returns he retires for years and is only back because Gotham need it.

Bruce isnt Insane, or at least not more insane that Spiderman.

@tupiaz: He uses the bat to scare people, no one would fear him with a uniform, people fears animals, i know in the comics he uses to many bat related thing, but that because the artist dont notice they do that, also notice the fact people hates the tumbler because dont looks like a bat.

They like the horrible Burton one, that sucked as a car and make him look like an idiot.

Also, at this point Batman he isnt doing it for his dead parents

He is doing it because is his mission and what he has to do.

He found a cause to live and die for, how that means he is insane?

People overlook that Batman isnt Burton Batman or Miller Batman, those guys are the insane ones that never get up from the floor when their parents die.

He is in control of what he does and why he does it.

He is more sane that us.

Fully agree.

@tupiaz said:

@deathpoolthet1000 said:

@tupiaz: He uses the bat to scare people, no one would fear him with a uniform, people fears animals, i know in the comics he uses to many bat related thing, but that because the artist dont notice they do that, also notice the fact people hates the tumbler because dont looks like a bat.

They like the horrible Burton one, that sucked as a car and make him look like an idiot.

Also, at this point Batman he isnt doing it for his dead parents

He is doing it because is his mission and what he has to do.

He found a cause to live and die for, how that means he is insane?

People overlook that Batman isnt Burton Batman or Miller Batman, those guys are the insane ones that never get up from the floor when their parents die.

He is in control of what he does and why he does it.

He is more sane that us.

He puts on the batman costume because he was in a batcave as a child. He could have choice whatever outfit put he choice to be a bat. Punisher is pretty feared and he is running around in a T-shirt with a skull on. Pretty simple. Also Bruce motives to fight crimes is grounded in that he lost his parents. If bruce didn't lose his parents as a child he wouldn't have become batman. Batman is in no way rational, logic or balanced as a person and clearly has his own issues. The reason why batman is so interesting is that he is very most like his villains he just fight crimes instead of doing them.

So Punisher has Skullfetish, that means he's insane?

#49 Edited by tupiaz (2184 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: If you can't see the difference between have a t-shirt on with a skull motive and dressing up as bat because you felt in a batcave as child then there is no reason for ave the discussion. When that is said Punisher do have his issues as well.

#50 Posted by XIIXIIX (57 posts) - - Show Bio

sane, i remember reading batman of zurr en arrgh in whatever arc it was (i think it was when joker was doing something crazy(as usual)) in and thinking it was pretty strange. that's the only insane version of batman I know, so definitely regular batman over whatever that was supposed to be

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