Whats wrong with Batman Inc?

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#1 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

why do a lot of batman fans dislike it so much?

#2 Posted by Billy Batson (58143 posts) - - Show Bio

Because it's a stupid concept. There's no reason for it. Batman has (had) other teams that are more efficient and more connected with him on personal level than it. Be it the Bat-family, Outsiders or JLA. The only reason why it's in existence is because of Grant Morrison.
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#3 Posted by Frozen (14309 posts) - - Show Bio

@Eternal19 said:

why do a lot of batman fans dislike it so much?

It's silly.

#4 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frozen: @Billy Batson: but, it makes sense. Because, batman wants to eliminate crime and he knows that gotham isnt the only city with crime, so he has to set up other crime fighters everywhere.

#5 Edited by InnerVenom123 (29509 posts) - - Show Bio

There are a lot of reasons that some fans hate it.

I used to hate it because my pre-concieved notion of Batman most fit within the BTAS/Nolan version. The "loner" Batman.

Then I actually read it, and other Batman comics, and expanded how I saw Batman. So I didn't hate it anymore. In fact, I love it.

#6 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29509 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

Because it's a stupid concept. There's no reason for it. Batman has (had) other teams that are more efficient and more connected with him on personal level than it. Be it the Bat-family, Outsiders or JLA. The only reason why it's in existence is because of Grant Morrison.
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Batman Inc is basically just an extension of the Bat-family.

#7 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

I love it sooooo... It makes sense, a lot of heroes were inspired by Batman and Batman is extending the family and putting "batmen" all over the world to fight crime locally.

#8 Edited by Suprman (442 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked the first run of it before the relaunch because I sort of like the concept but now it feels like an excuse to put Batman in another book because he's a popular character. Batman is DC's Wolverine. Not a bad character in any way, shape or form, just overexposed in my opinion.

#9 Posted by Frozen (14309 posts) - - Show Bio

@Eternal19 said:

@Frozen: @Billy Batson: but, it makes sense. Because, batman wants to eliminate crime and he knows that gotham isnt the only city with crime, so he has to set up other crime fighters everywhere.

I know. But the concept is ridiculous, it wasn't needed. I prefer Batman as the ''lone-wolf'' anyways so it's just my personal preference.

#10 Posted by quirky_anecdotes (344 posts) - - Show Bio

it introduced batcow.How can people hate it? Seriously do you want comics to be brooding grimdark 90s EXTREEEEMEEEEE all the time?

#11 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frozen: I understand. I like my batman to still have that loner personality but still realize that he can't do everything alone and requires the help of sidekicks. I also like that goofy/sci-fi side of batman and the darker detective side of batman. which is one of the reasons Morrison is my favorite writer because he's able to blend those two sides very well. While a lot writers focus on the darker side and try to take out all the comic booky parts of batman.

#12 Posted by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't hate it but I don't like it either. It's badly done in my opinion. Batman Inc should focus on the various Batmen around the world. Likewise the title for Batwing should be discarded because of this. One of the big problems is that Batman inc doesn't work in pre-flashpoint as it requires things that don't exist in the post flashpoint world like Batwoman I and the League of Batmen and a Robin and Batman that look completely different.

#13 Posted by YMCMB (160 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't like the concept of Batman becoming a franchise at all when I first heard it, but after giving it a chance it almost immediately become my favorite monthly comic. The writing and art is fun and unique, and I really think everyone should give it a chance at least.

#14 Posted by The Stegman (24992 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't hate it..but if it went away, I wouldn't complain....Morrison's mind is to weird and abstract for my liking.

#15 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1801 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like the idea behind it... but I do like the way its executed, if that makes sense

#16 Posted by Jodez (150 posts) - - Show Bio

Horrible artwork

#17 Posted by InfamousFish (353 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really like it as much as other Batman stories.

#18 Posted by daredevil21134 (12090 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

Because it's a stupid concept. There's no reason for it. Batman has (had) other teams that are more efficient and more connected with him on personal level than it. Be it the Bat-family, Outsiders or JLA. The only reason why it's in existence is because of Grant Morrison.
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#19 Posted by Dernman (15225 posts) - - Show Bio
@daredevil21134 said:

@Billy Batson said:

Because it's a stupid concept. There's no reason for it. Batman has (had) other teams that are more efficient and more connected with him on personal level than it. Be it the Bat-family, Outsiders or JLA. The only reason why it's in existence is because of Grant Morrison.
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#20 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

It sucks and isn't needed for a universe that is all ready well developed. Arguably DC most developed uni.

#21 Edited by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is anyone whining for the idea since it makes so much sense.

Superman has the league of super heroes and Wonder Woman has a planet of Amazons batman will have black ops division. It makes sense. Frank miller had the idea of making a batman army. It was badly executed but it further proves the inimitable. They have shown an army of Batmen and Batwoman was in the works with series such Justice League and The Batman.

the Justice League wiped Batman memories. if he finds out that they did (which will happen) he will likely quit or demand changes. so he will have ask of trust on people not following his standards. Furthermore three Robins have died and Batmen of All Nation have been massacred on his watch, so he need to make a change. There will be posers which he has to take care of as well. Batman has died and he saw himself spread across the times zone. Batman Boot camp anyone?

#22 Posted by entropy_aegis (15451 posts) - - Show Bio

@Suprman said:

I liked the first run of it before the relaunch because I sort of like the concept but now it feels like an excuse to put Batman in another book because he's a popular character. Batman is DC's Wolverine. Not a bad character in any way, shape or form, just overexposed in my opinion.

No the book exists because Morrison wants to tell a story,now All Star Batman,Odyssey etc these exist solely for the purpose of giving Batman another book.

@Fuchsia_Nightingale said:

It sucks and isn't needed for a universe that is all ready well developed. Arguably DC most developed uni.

What does this even mean? so DC should stop being creative?(which has happened kinda after the new 52)

@Billy Batson said:

Because it's a stupid concept. There's no reason for it. Batman has (had) other teams that are more efficient and more connected with him on personal level than it. Be it the Bat-family, Outsiders or JLA. The only reason why it's in existence is because of Grant Morrison.
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Batman INC only combines the Batfamily and the Outsiders with some new vigilantes from around the world most of whom were already active before Batman recruited them.JLA does'nt count they were never a prominent feature in solo Batman stories.

Batman INC has been in existence for years,Morrison simply had Batman make it official cause after Return of Bruce Wayne he acknowledged that he was never alone.

So I fail to understand why people dislike it,imagine if Morrison started working on the Outsiders where he introduces the same characters and writes the same sort of stories would people dislike it as much? seems to me that most of the hatred stems from it simply being "called" Batman INC(even some of the posters here in this very thread have stated as such)

Goes to show comicbook fans can easily be persuaded in to liking something that's appealing to the eye and the mind even if it's lacking in substance(ahem Snyders Batman).

#23 Edited by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: Yes, Knight and Squire are the epitome of creativity, it's not like we already had a British Batman =^-^=

Batman already had like eight supporting heroes, so give him more. Whereas some one Like Aquaman who just now gets more supporting characters. There are more deserving characters, that need an ongoing like Martian Manhunter and Cap Marvel.

#24 Posted by SupBatz (1775 posts) - - Show Bio

@Durakken said:

I don't hate it but I don't like it either. It's badly done in my opinion. Batman Inc should focus on the various Batmen around the world. Likewise the title for Batwing should be discarded because of this. One of the big problems is that Batman inc doesn't work in pre-flashpoint as it requires things that don't exist in the post flashpoint world like Batwoman I and the League of Batmen and a Robin and Batman that look completely different.

@The Stegman said:

I don't hate it..but if it went away, I wouldn't complain....Morrison's mind is to weird and abstract for my liking.
#25 Edited by knighthood (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd be okay with Inc if it focused on the other members and left Batman, Robin, and Batwoman alone.

#26 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

I do hate the name. Just ugh. That's part of it. But also, it doesn't really fit with how i like my Batman. But especially, i just hate Grant Morrison's Batman epic with the exception of Batman and Son, and the REsurrection of Ra's al Ghul. THat was good stuff, but everything else? don't. like. it.

I also HATE that Bruce Wayne comes forward as the funder of Batman. But mostly, i hate the concept. Though i'll admit, thinking about it; it's probabyl because of the name. Wow, i'm lame.

#27 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

Batwing is the only good thing that came out of it. But I am glad that the book knows what it is, and does not take itself too seriously, like all these other Batman books do.

#28 Posted by vernierhawk001 (539 posts) - - Show Bio

I just think the concept is so anti-Bruce at its core.

1.Bruce is distrusting. So now he magically goes out and picks a bajillion other guys around the world who are on par w/ him to protect their cities?

2. (Warning: this comment is based on animated incarnations of Bruce. Not sure about comics) Bruce is one of the most guarded members of the League in terms of becoming too powerful, not having failsafes/accountability/etc. But now the writers tell me that he goes out and establishes his own private worldwide army that answers to him? I guess maybe the same could be said about Outsiders but that team had a specific purpose. He is establishing these guys in other countries with the intent of staying.

3. It's pretty egotistical and rude. I figured Batman (at lest in Gotham) established himself as an aid to the police in a way. In this, he is basically saying "i'm doing this whether you like it or not"

4. Most important point, it cheapens the mythos of Batman. Establishing these guys around the word says "anyone can learn to jump off a building and wear a cowl. No powers, no problem." While some may argue that that is what Batman is all about (the comman man doing great things) how far is too far? How is this not actively promoting vigilante-ism? Another thing, Bruce trained for years to get where he is now (not sure about the actual time period). He was super worried about Cass going out when her defense was off a while back. But now he gives a month crash coure in martial arts and that's supposed to prepare these guys adequately? Plus there are the other issues like Bruce's intellect, detective skills and, most importantly, his will. To say that he found people with a similar resolve again takes away from the mythos

Knowledgeable Batman, Inc fans are probably going to shred me on this so I will await the abuse. But, honestly, the only thing I really liked about this concept was that it gave Grayson more time behind the cowl

#29 Edited by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

Because it's a stupid concept. There's no reason for it. Batman has (had) other teams that are more efficient and more connected with him on personal level than it. Be it the Bat-family, Outsiders or JLA. The only reason why it's in existence is because of Grant Morrison.
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Bingo, folk. That being said I can't say I haven't enjoyed the new volume. Still against the idea tough. Same story could've been told without Bruce saying he was backing Batman/Establishing Inc.

@Imagine_Man15 said:

I don't like the idea behind it... but I do like the way its executed, if that makes sense

You took the words out of my mouth

#30 Posted by Onemoreposter (4069 posts) - - Show Bio

@Eternal19 said:

why do a lot of batman fans dislike it so much?

I think it's because the premise of Bruce Wayne supporting an international group of Bat-themed super heroes without anyone getting suspicious is a bit of a stretch for some people, but then again, so is the premise of an alien from a distant galaxy coming to earth, looking exactly like we do and being able to fly. Then again, some people just don't like Quitely or Morrison or both.

Personally I love Quitely's art and I love Morrison's writing. I think the book is great. I'm enjoying the second arc even more than the first.

#31 Posted by TDK_1997 (14983 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I'm not hating it but it;s not one of Morrison's good work.It is cheesy and almost doesn't have a purpose.

#32 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like it because I see Bruce as being more guarded and a loner type. This doesn't necessarily mean that he can't work with others (Justice League) or take on a sidekick. I don't see him abandoning Gotham to focus on the world's needs like he did for quite some time in Inc. nor do I see him actively recruiting these foreign vigilantes to operate under the Batman seal. It makes sense when they are a part of the Bat family and trained by Batman himself for a number of years before going off on their own, but some of these people (like Nightrunner) only have one or two times of experience before being recruited by Batman.

I also hate that Bruce Wayne has come out and said that he supports Batman. How does this help in any way? Villains now know how Batman gets his tech and will focus more attacks against Wayne Enterprises. It also puts the higher ups of WE in jeopardy, such as Lucius. Not to mention it is definitely illegal to fund a vigilante. It was needlessly done only for shock value.

That all being said I enjoy the Batman Inc. book. I think it is entertaining (though I do hate Talia's complete change of character under Morrison). I wouldn't mind seeing it scrapped and Batman just going back to JL duties and saving Gotham, however.

#33 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hazlenaut said:

the Justice League wiped Batman memories. if he finds out that they did (which will happen) he will likely quit or demand changes. so he will have ask of trust on people not following his standards. Furthermore three Robins have died and Batmen of All Nation have been massacred on his watch, so he need to make a change. There will be posers which he has to take care of as well. Batman has died and he saw himself spread across the times zone. Batman Boot camp anyone?

This is no longer true as Zatanna has never been a part of the league. Also, only Jason has died and he came back as Red Hood.

#34 Edited by YMCMB (160 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n said:

I don't like it because I see Bruce as being more guarded and a loner type. This doesn't necessarily mean that he can't work with others (Justice League) or take on a sidekick. I don't see him abandoning Gotham to focus on the world's needs like he did for quite some time in Inc. nor do I see him actively recruiting these foreign vigilantes to operate under the Batman seal. It makes sense when they are a part of the Bat family and trained by Batman himself for a number of years before going off on their own, but some of these people (like Nightrunner) only have one or two times of experience before being recruited by Batman.

A lot of people are saying Batman Inc goes against the typical Batman characterization of Bruce being a loner, but it really is just character progression within Morrison's run. At the end of Return of Bruce Wayne, he realizes that throughout his entire life that although he sometimes feels like it, he's never truly been alone, he has always had help in some form. So, when he sees some kind of vague threat in the near future that's too big for his family to handle themselves, he begins to expand the family, get more help, and put people in place to fight his great omnipresent enemy, crime. The concept of Inc might not make sense in comparison to the grimdark Batman of the past, but it makes perfect sense in Morrison's run.

#35 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n: What about Stephanie Brown and I think Carrie Kelly. the Joker said to have killed two robins but I am not sure if it was Carrie Kelly.

#36 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hazlenaut: Carrie Kelly does not exist in mainstream continuity and was also never killed. Steph was killed by Black Mask, but it turns out that she was alive and in Africa with Leslie.

#37 Posted by vernierhawk001 (539 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

@Billy Batson said:

Because it's a stupid concept. There's no reason for it. Batman has (had) other teams that are more efficient and more connected with him on personal level than it. Be it the Bat-family, Outsiders or JLA. The only reason why it's in existence is because of Grant Morrison.
BB

Batman Inc is basically just an extension of the Bat-family.

That might be another reason I don't like it: too many people. How many folks in the world know who the real Batman is, now? And, I just can't get over this feeling that it cheapens the Batman legacy (as I've said somewhere above)

#38 Posted by vernierhawk001 (539 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n said:

I don't like it because I see Bruce as being more guarded and a loner type. This doesn't necessarily mean that he can't work with others (Justice League) or take on a sidekick. I don't see him abandoning Gotham to focus on the world's needs like he did for quite some time in Inc. nor do I see him actively recruiting these foreign vigilantes to operate under the Batman seal. It makes sense when they are a part of the Bat family and trained by Batman himself for a number of years before going off on their own, but some of these people (like Nightrunner) only have one or two times of experience before being recruited by Batman.

I also hate that Bruce Wayne has come out and said that he supports Batman. How does this help in any way? Villains now know how Batman gets his tech and will focus more attacks against Wayne Enterprises. It also puts the higher ups of WE in jeopardy, such as Lucius. Not to mention it is definitely illegal to fund a vigilante. It was needlessly done only for shock value.

That all being said I enjoy the Batman Inc. book. I think it is entertaining (though I do hate Talia's complete change of character under Morrison). I wouldn't mind seeing it scrapped and Batman just going back to JL duties and saving Gotham, however.

Wait, so you don't like the idea but enjoy the book? haha.

I agree with your main points, though. I don't like the fact that it seems to go against his trust issues. I don't like the fact that he mgaically trained these folks for like a month then gave his seal of approval (when he and his "kids" had it so much harder). I don't like the fact that so many ppl now wear the "sacred symbol". And I don't like it the Bruce publicly funds this (how long would it really take before anyone suspects he has ties to Batman? Really?)

I have other reasons explained in a lengthy post somewhere else on this thread. :)

#39 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@vernierhawk001 said:

@r3d_rob1n said:

I don't like it because I see Bruce as being more guarded and a loner type. This doesn't necessarily mean that he can't work with others (Justice League) or take on a sidekick. I don't see him abandoning Gotham to focus on the world's needs like he did for quite some time in Inc. nor do I see him actively recruiting these foreign vigilantes to operate under the Batman seal. It makes sense when they are a part of the Bat family and trained by Batman himself for a number of years before going off on their own, but some of these people (like Nightrunner) only have one or two times of experience before being recruited by Batman.

I also hate that Bruce Wayne has come out and said that he supports Batman. How does this help in any way? Villains now know how Batman gets his tech and will focus more attacks against Wayne Enterprises. It also puts the higher ups of WE in jeopardy, such as Lucius. Not to mention it is definitely illegal to fund a vigilante. It was needlessly done only for shock value.

That all being said I enjoy the Batman Inc. book. I think it is entertaining (though I do hate Talia's complete change of character under Morrison). I wouldn't mind seeing it scrapped and Batman just going back to JL duties and saving Gotham, however.

Wait, so you don't like the idea but enjoy the book? haha.

haha pretty much. I find myself liking Damian more and more each issue I read. This book features him prominently, so it keeps me entertained. i don't think it is a good call in the grand scheme of Batman though

#40 Posted by vernierhawk001 (539 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@r3d_rob1n said:

I don't like it because I see Bruce as being more guarded and a loner type. This doesn't necessarily mean that he can't work with others (Justice League) or take on a sidekick. I don't see him abandoning Gotham to focus on the world's needs like he did for quite some time in Inc. nor do I see him actively recruiting these foreign vigilantes to operate under the Batman seal. It makes sense when they are a part of the Bat family and trained by Batman himself for a number of years before going off on their own, but some of these people (like Nightrunner) only have one or two times of experience before being recruited by Batman.

I also hate that Bruce Wayne has come out and said that he supports Batman. How does this help in any way? Villains now know how Batman gets his tech and will focus more attacks against Wayne Enterprises. It also puts the higher ups of WE in jeopardy, such as Lucius. Not to mention it is definitely illegal to fund a vigilante. It was needlessly done only for shock value.

That all being said I enjoy the Batman Inc. book. I think it is entertaining (though I do hate Talia's complete change of character under Morrison). I wouldn't mind seeing it scrapped and Batman just going back to JL duties and saving Gotham, however.

Wait, so you don't like the idea but enjoy the book? haha.

haha pretty much. I find myself liking Damian more and more each issue I read. This book features him prominently, so it keeps me entertained. i don't think it is a good call in the grand scheme of Batman though

Haha...I find myself liking Damian more as well...but through the other books ( Nightwing, Batman and Robin, etc).

#41 Posted by kasino (1785 posts) - - Show Bio

because why hasn't the entire criminal world put the billionaire supporter of Batman in a constant bind, I mean constantly

he isn't the law(Batman) and he is being founded by a guy in your mind that is touchable as villains have kidnapped everyone under the sun

fabric of his alibi is pretty loose follow him to find his meetings with Batman

#42 Posted by braycraig7 (3 posts) - - Show Bio

He forget to putt-off the mask before his wife,and she beating with hard stick.

#43 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29509 posts) - - Show Bio

@vernierhawk001 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@Billy Batson said:

Because it's a stupid concept. There's no reason for it. Batman has (had) other teams that are more efficient and more connected with him on personal level than it. Be it the Bat-family, Outsiders or JLA. The only reason why it's in existence is because of Grant Morrison.
BB

Batman Inc is basically just an extension of the Bat-family.

That might be another reason I don't like it: too many people. How many folks in the world know who the real Batman is, now? And, I just can't get over this feeling that it cheapens the Batman legacy (as I've said somewhere above)

Um... no one on the extended Batman Inc team knows who Batman is.

#44 Posted by Billy Batson (58143 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

@vernierhawk001 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@Billy Batson said:

Because it's a stupid concept. There's no reason for it. Batman has (had) other teams that are more efficient and more connected with him on personal level than it. Be it the Bat-family, Outsiders or JLA. The only reason why it's in existence is because of Grant Morrison.
BB

Batman Inc is basically just an extension of the Bat-family.

That might be another reason I don't like it: too many people. How many folks in the world know who the real Batman is, now? And, I just can't get over this feeling that it cheapens the Batman legacy (as I've said somewhere above)

Um... no one on the extended Batman Inc team knows who Batman is.

Which makes it even sillier~
BB

#45 Posted by JoeEddie (484 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like Grant Morrison

#46 Posted by htb106 (1641 posts) - - Show Bio

I like it.

I geuss other Bat-fans just think it's a bit needless but I think it's pretty cool.

#47 Posted by BatWatch (2812 posts) - - Show Bio

I am a huge, long-time Batman fan, and I don't hate it. I do feel like the original arc was a little bit scatterbrained, but I still enjoyed the overall concept and story.

#48 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

i think its pointless. give us outsiders. or better yet shadowpact. with chimp detectvie.

#49 Edited by Lvenger (20677 posts) - - Show Bio

@theTimeStreamer said:

i think its pointless. give us outsiders. or better yet shadowpact. with chimp detectvie.

This would make more sense in the scheme of the New 52. Somewhere down along the line, Batman, being the leader of the Justice League feels it isn't doing a good enough job or that there are some things it can't handle. So he forms the Outsiders to do just those jobs. I'd throw in Geo Force, Black Lightning, Looker, Halo, Katana and Metamorpho. And maybe instead of Batman leading it, he gets Jason off that stupid Outlaws title by Lobdell to lead this secret squad to handle the dirty jobs. With hints that Jason might be up for working closer with Bruce, this would be an awesome move. And it would end RHATO.

#50 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

@Eternal19 said:

why do a lot of batman fans dislike it so much?

It totally depends on your tastes.

Though a lot of people say "Batman's a loner" that really doesn't hold up with the character's history, both classic and recent.

Even prior to Batman, Inc, Batman had a large group of allies in the IMMEDIATE Bat-Family, forgetting extended allies:

Nightwing, Tim Drake Robin/Red Robin, Damien Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Oracle, and Alfred.

I don't really have a problem with Batman Inc as a concept, and really enjoyed some of the stories.

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