I’ve never understood the hate towards him, though I don’t think it’s really hate, but more of people just saying he’s lame or boring. Though, when compared to characters such as Riddler or Two-Face, he can be just as interesting and cool as they can, especially Riddler who really hasn’t had the best representation at all over the years. Is it the bird gimmick? It’s certainly better than Catwoman’s cat gimmick. I just never understood the negativity when Penguin is a much better character than say Catwoman, Riddler, Bane, and Poison Ivy. He’s a big threat when considering what he can do, but people expect him to be this big physical villain, he’s a cerebral one. Hell, he used to be the most popular Batman villain second to the Joker back in the day, what happened?

People hate the Penguin? Who? And why?

@bh6shouldhavehadsilversamurai: I've seen some give him hate for really weak reasons, and I never understood them.

@b4tm4nish3r3: I've yet to see any of this

But Penguin's one of Batman's most popular villains?

@symbioticspider-man: That's true! Actually, I think he's like...The 3rd most popular villain basing that purely on comic-book appearances.

@bh6shouldhavehadsilversamurai: You've never seen people hate on him? Where have you been?! XD I've seen it a lot, and I find it really odd.

I seen people hate on him. Never really on Comic Vine though I don't really hear much talk of him on here.

I think the reason why some people hate the Penguin is the just his comedic appearance and in recent years they made him more of a behind the scenes villain unlike the Joker, Riddler, Ivy, and all them who are always breaking out of Arkham to start crap for Batman. I guess it kinda makes uninteresting. Honestly I don't really know.

He's fine with me.

Beata

Other than his horrible representation in Batman Returns, people really don't have any reason to hate him.

They've probably seen his portrayal in Gotham.

Penguin is quite honestly my least favorite mainstream batman villain. He is useless, of no threat, and his storylines are usually boring. I'm not sure why people follow and fear him in Gotham. Riddler and scarecrow aren't physically imposing but they use prep and fear gas to give batman and fight and actually threaten Gotham city. Penguin can't really do anything, and he poses no difficulty to batman in any way.

That said, I don't hate him. He's just a crappy villain.

He is fat, people has something against fat people.

Ask Waller.

@jayc1324: I think that's funny considering that can be directly said for the Riddler, who has only a handful of good stories. Penguin is the same as Riddler and Scarecrow, and I don't see how he's useless when he's an arms dealer, and a big one at that. Penguin is a big threat to Batman, especially if you've considered that he's literally fought Batman physically before as well. Go read The Penguin Returns by Doug Moench or some of the Alan Grant stuff. There was a great Detective Comics Annual done by Denny O'Neil. People fear him for his influence on the underworld, that's like asking why people fear Joker. Why wouldn't you follow him? He's uber rich compared to Two-Face or the other Arkhamites, why do people follow the Joker? He's nuts. Saying Penguin is a crappy villain is pretty bad when he's on par with Joker in villainy at times.

I really don't see how he's useless. Look at Bane, he's had just about only one good storyline, and that's Knightfall, I can't name anymore than that. Not that he's a bad character, writers just have nothing to do with him.

I wouldn't go as far as he has boring storylines, that's pretty rough to say. For my research, I read Penguin: Pain and Prejudice, and that was one of the best Batman-related comics that I've read in a while. Right up there with the Killing Joke.

@playswithsquirrels: Hey, now, Danny wasn't that bad, despite the character being fucked up beyond repair.

@crazyscarecrow: I always felt that was really stupid. I mean, it's a comic-book that revolves around a man in a bat suit fighting a clown and another guy covered in question marks, how comedic can we get? Though, I think that's the charm, Penguin represents a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I also hear people complaining he's lame. I think he's cool, though. Have you read Penguin: Pain and prejudice?

@b4tm4nish3r3: I'm not knocking Devito at all. I just think Batman Returns has horrible writing. The actors had to make the best out of what they had, but what can you expect from a Batman movie in which the Penguin says poontang?

@b4tm4nish3r3: I disagree. Batman during the No Mans Land literally walked up to penguin, told him to give resources to those who needed it and batman would let him go free, and that was it. Penguin was completely under Batman's control. He is no threat. He is three feet tall, why would I fear him? Penguin is not nuts, and I don't fear someone just because they are rich. Batman can waltz into the iceberg lounge anytime he wants to and beat him. He offers no threat. What threat I'd an arms dealer to batman? And don't compare penguin to joker, joker has kidnapped the entire bat family, he killed Jason todd, he shot batgirl, and recently he successfully poisoned and mind controlled the justice league. That's a threat.

Bane has had great storylines since then. Arkham war, Legacy, appearances in No Mans Land... Penguin is useless. Riddler has something interesting to offer. He poses an intellectual challenge for Batman, and recently had an amazing story in zero year. Penguin offers no such challenge. He acts sinister but once he's beaten he's not really so tough. Pain and prejudice is an exception. He's rarely if ever been portrayed as well as he was there.

@jayc1324: Honestly, it's extremely clear you don't like the Penguin nor do know much about the character.

Me no like Penguin =/= The Penguin is a bad character.

cause he is no threat, and i am not talking about not being physical, he is not a criminal mastermind...its all about the writers, they just didnt write a big story about him, showing him as a real big threat, someone who doesnt have the physical strength to threaten Bats but has the mind to cause real trouble

@playswithsquirrels: He is a crappy villain.

Meh

I like him on Gotham.

@jayc1324: Your well thought out argument stumped me.

@playswithsquirrels: You did not have any argument at all in your post to me, and I already explained why he is a crappy villain above.

Never heard anybody really hate on the Penguin

~MiB

@jayc1324: Penguin in Arkham City was a huge threat, Penguin in Batman: the Animated Series knocked Batman out for a week, trapped him in an aviary coming close to murdering him, locked him into the Batmobile that was about to explode, and in Blind as a Bat, Penguin blinded Bruce, destroyed the Batwing, and nearly killed him. That’s not a threat? Penguin has been depicted as being a physical challenge as well, he knows judo and has fought him. Matter of fact, Batman has already stated Penguin was the most brilliant man he’s ever fought.

Your No Man’s Land argument means nothing; he probably gave him the information because Penguin doesn’t have time to deal with him. Why should you fear a clown? Why should you fear a man with question marks on him? They present threats. Your argument is pretty invalid and fueled by your opinion of him being ‘useless’.

Wait a second, who’s to say Penguin isn’t nuts? Ever read Joker’s Asylum: Penguin? He may not be criminally insane, but he still has mental problems, which doesn’t make him any less of a threat. Is Lex Luthor less of a threat because he’s not insane?

Bane is usually pushed down to a thug-level villain, and that’s such a disappointment.

Riddler does offer quite a bit, but writers never use him because he’s hard as hell to write for.

Penguin: Triumphant, the Alan Grant stuff, the Golden Age comics, The Penguin Returns they were all great Penguin stories. You also just complimented him, Penguin: Pain and Prejudice was one of the best series in the past few years. I think most of your criticisms are just bullshit, and aren’t even criticisms other than he’s not a threat, which is untrue. You’re just ignoring the evidence.

@b4tm4nish3r3: Well if you are gonna count shows and video games its different. All that stuff about him being a genius and a good fighter is really old. That's not at all how he's depicted today. Even so, batman gets out of deathtraps insanely easily. The guy has been buried alive. That's hardly a challenge for him.

As I said before. That clown killed a robin, paralyzed a batgirl, and mine controlled the justice league. That man in question marks took over Gotham, and batman had to sacrifice himself to save it. Batman actually died and was resuscitated by Alfred. Lex luthor is a billionaire, penguin is not. Penguin really doesn't measure up to many of the villains you've mentioned thus far. My argument is not fueled by opinion that he is useless, I have made this opinion because that's what I've noticed about him. Its not something I made up with no proof and am just aimlessly trying to back up.

Yes I said pain and prejudice was good. But he has become a lot worse since then. Golden age comics aren't at all relevant to penguin right now. Everyone was amazing in the golden age. Superman sneezed away galaxies in the silver age, old stuff like that has little effect on a characters current incarnation. Penguin is just an arms dealer, he is not much of a problem for batman to deal with.

@b4tm4nish3r3: Exactly! I always thought that too.

@jayc1324: Your "arguments" hold no weight. It all boils down to, "I don't like the Penguin. He's a bad villain because I don't like him."

@jayc1324: His height has no bearing on his threat level. Batman being able to physically best Penguin is irrelevant.

Penguin isn't a threat in the same way as some of his other villains, but given how he tends to be a facilitator, can be a threat indirectly.

My understanding is that Batman tolerates him because he can use him, and better the devil you know. It doesn't mean he is worthless or not a threat.

@jayc1324: What are you babbling about? So, you’re saying that other forms of media that are Batman don’t mean anything. Whatever, Arkham City was written by a comic-book writer, Paul Dini.

You’re still ignoring what Penguin has done. He’s ruined people’s lives, he once threatened Gotham with a deadly virus that he was going to use his birds to spread, he escaped Batman multiples times, framed Batman for crimes that he didn’t commit, he managed to poison Batman with a deadly virus that had the potential to kill him, and plenty of other things. Luthor being a billionaire doesn’t make Penguin less credible, just means he has more money.

Your understanding of the character is amazing. One second you’ll be like he looks like a joke, that’s well, you know the point of the character.

That Golden Age argument is awful. So, you’re saying that anything done in the Golden Age is amazing and isn’t as credible despite it being the era that Batman was created! I also find it hilarious that you just said Joker mine controlled the Justice League, that’s almost as bad as the Silver Age, and don’t you dare say it isn’t. And the Riddler taking over the city and Batman sacrificing himself and coming back to life, so, that’s not Silver Age antics either?

With how you’re talking, you seem to be judging Penguin from what he is right now, and not for how he was back then. It doesn’t matter if his previous incarnations don’t have anything to do with the current one; he’s still a good character and villain. He might not be great right now since they reduced him to being a mob boss, even though he has the potential to be a main villain.

@playswithsquirrels: Burton's Penguin and The Batman's Penguin were both equally awful misrepresentations of the character.

@muyjingo: his height does diminish his physical threat and batman physically dominating him is relevant. He is worthless and not a threat at all. Batman can go in and stomp him any time he wants. He's nothing compared to joker or bane on even the riddler who took over Gotham. Penguin is nothing but an arms dealer. @playswithsquirrels: You're argument is nonexistent. You like penguin and I don't. There's nothing to argue. I think he's a crappy villain.

@b4tm4nish3r3: No I didn't say they didn't matter. I just didn't know we were venturing out side of comics.. It being written by a comic writer means nothing.

You have not given me one thing penguin has done as a real threat to batman. He's done nothing his other villains can't do and he does not pose as much of a threat. He is a three foot tall arms dealer who cannot do crap to batman in any way shape or form. Penguin is not a threat to Gotham.

And yes the golden age is irrelevant. Like I said. And no, the riddler making batman sacrifice himself happened recently and is more than penguin has done.

Penguin was fine fifty years ago but he is now a crappy villain and little to no threat. I'm not sure how you can argue that a man who batman can easily stomp and control is a threat to Gotham or anyone. Your argument is stuff that happened seventy years ago. Batman murdered people regularly that long ago, but he doesn't anymore. Characters change over time, and penguin has become crap.

Not everyone likes penguin and it is valid to say he is a crappy villain now. Until he actually does something that challenges batman my opinion won't change.

@jayc1324: Previously, you said why would you be afraid of a guy that is three feet tall?

Penguin basically controls the underworld, and he has a tight grip on it, why would he need to take over Gotham? That's pretty useless when you're already basically in control of Gotham. Penguin also has fooled the public and become the mayor before, so your argument is still pretty bad.

Batman has stated Penguin is his greatest villain second to only the Joker.

Wrong, he's more than an arms dealer. He's a night club owner, mob boss, informant, organization leader, and a leading power in the underworld. So, try again.

He's mocking you, because you're making a poor argument.

@b4tm4nish3r3: penguin controls the under world because batman let's him. Not a threat. Penguin has no control over Gotham. If he ever tried to pull anything batman would ragdoll him and stop it immediately. How is my argument bad because he became the mayor? The hell? Being the mayor doesn't stop batman from kicking your ass.

The writer stated that. Batman isn't a real person. That's one writer and I'm guessing that was said years ago.

None of that is a threat. Not sure why you can't understand that.

Once again how is my argument bad? He hasn't a done a single thing to genuinely challenge or threaten Batman and batman can stop him at any time. You using crap 70 years old is like me using silver age feats to say superman is a galaxy buster. It is simply not relevant anymore.

You are limiting the the meaning of threat. Again, it doesn't matter that Batman can beat him phsyically, because Penguin is not a physical threat.

Penguin is a threat from what he knows, and what he controls. He controls more, and has more knowledge about what may be going on that Batman. It's foolish to think he can't leverage that, and to dismiss him as a threat.

@muyjingo: If penguin ever tried anything, it is easy for batman to beat him up and jail him. Penguin controls mobs but those are easy for batman too. There was the gang war in batman eternal but that was orchestrated by someone else and batman has already subdued that threat

@jayc1324: Are you serious? Being Gotham's mayor is the biggest threat to Batman possible, because Penguin literally made it where vigilantes were banned from the city. He'd still control the underworld even if Batman interfered, it's not like Batman is instantly going to stop his influence, and it takes more than a fight to destroy a criminal's influence. He has control over Gotham’s underworld, he’s a mob boss. It's hard to jail Penguin, you should know that.

That's not just one writer, but it's been documented in books and comics before. Plus, the comic from before is a perfect example. If Batman said Joker was his greatest villain, I'm sure you'd defend it.

How is that not a threat?

You're saying he's not a threat and calling him useless when there have been plenty of instances of him being a threat and causing Batman problems. It doesn't matter how old it is, its Batman, so it's still relevant. Penguin was one of the biggest threats in Arkham City.

Actually, he has, and I've already mentioned quite a few examples that you've ignored. You're discrediting him because of his current state, and then saying he can't compare to other villains when he can. Worst of all, you used examples for Joker from comics in the 90s and 80s. So, by your logic, that doesn't mean anything. You’re ignoring Penguin’s stuff from the 80s and 90s that was great, and I’m using that too.

He can do something, he can go toe-to-toe with Batman, and has before. You’re still judging him on his height, he’s cerebral villain. Come up with a better argument.

Just because his current state has limited him doesn’t mean he can’t be a great villain, and most importantly, a threat. You don’t have to be physical threat. Riddler isn’t, Scarecrow isn’t, Joker isn’t, Penguin isn’t, and they rely on gadgets and weapons to fight. Only Scarecrow and Penguin know a type of martial art.

@b4tm4nish3r3: Being the mayor doesn't save you from batman. Batman can easily deal with whatever penguin throws at him including his mob. He is nothing compared to other villains. Penguin is no longer a good villain. Sure he has potential but it hasn't been used in decades and he is a crap villain now. No threat. Batman stomps Gotham under world and he has jailed penguin before. Its not that hard. Compared to ras or joker or even talia penguin is no threat.

You're missing my point though. I'm not disputing that Batman can beat him up, but that is completely irrelevant. Penguin can use information as a weapon, and is a threat in that sense.

He doesn't need to be on the same scale as Batman's more dangerous villains to still be a threat. You're acting as though he can just be dismissed, which is simply false.

Ive never heard of anyone who hates the penguin.

@muyjingo: I disagree he can't simply be dismissed. What information can hurt batman? Penguin provides no threat batman hasn't gotten through easily before. Being able to beat him up is relevant, that's a part of being a good villain. Penguin isn't a foil for batman or anything and doesn't challenge him.

@jayc1324: He is one of the biggest players in the Gotham Underworld. Not a lot moves through Gotham without him OKing it or at least knowing about it.

And you honestly don't see any way for him to screw with Batman or abuse that power? That's just odd to me.

And no, being able to physically best him is irrelevant. It makes no difference, as he doesn't try to challenge Batman physically. If he did, then it would.

@muyjingo: that's cool and all but that's no problem for batman. Yes he's big on the underworld and that's good for him but that provides little threat for batman.

No I don't see him using his "power" to threaten batman. You're the one who said he could, so you explain that to me. Because I see no reason he can't dodge all the bullets penguin has his mob shoot st him, and punch penguin in the face. Mobs are little threat to batman. He's gone to Asia and destroyed triads and stuff before.

Being physically inferior to batman is relevant. That's part of being a villain. That adds to batman not fearing him and him not being as formidable. I never feel batman is in trouble when he goes against penguin. Just because penguin can't beat batman in a fight doesn't mean that its irrelevant.

As I said he provides little new obstacles or challenges to batman and is just a mob boss and crimelord, which batman routinely deals with.

@jayc1324: You keep missing the point. You keep reducing threat to 'physical threat', which is foolish. There are many types of threats, and while Penguin is not a physical threat to Batman, he is certainly a threat to Batman.

I agree his threat level is lower than several of the villains you have mentioned, but that doesn't mean he is no threat at all. I'm not sure why you see it that way, or how you can justify that stance.

You seem to be being deliberately dense since you keep focusing on physical confrontations. Penguin can sell information to hurt or disadvantage Batman and can mislead Batman with false information for the to his own purposes.Not everything's about punching, bucko.

Think about your argument for a second. It boils down to Penguin is not a physical threat, so he is no threat at all. In your opinion, does this mean Scarface,Dent and Hatter are all worthless, because Batman can easily best them physically? If not you need to elaborate on the other reasons you think you can dismiss Penguin, because as explained previously, him not being a physical threat is simply an insufficient reason.

@muyjingo: I have addressed all types of threats actually. You just keep trying to dismiss physical threats as irrelevant which isn't true. And I said he is of little threat which is true, and offers no challenge for batman and isnt a foil for him or anything. Just because I don't like penguin doesn't mean I'm being deliberately dense. Hating penguin doesn't make you dense. I've said he takes down triads and mobs all the time, that crap isn't a threat either.

@jayc1324: You’re making no sense. Penguin has been depicted as a physical threat to Batman; they clearly showed this in The Penguin Returns and comics from the 80s. Penguin is a huge threat to Batman, the man will play all sides against each other and usually come out the winner in the end, he uses information, money, intellect, and can adapt to a situation faster than most villains. Do you get that? Batman can’t just “handle him easily” by beating him up, that won’t work. Beating up a mob boss and thinking you’ve won is the worst thing you could ever do, that will just make matters worse. Penguin has his fingers in every place in Gotham’s underworld. Cobblepot uses his information to tear down others and hide things from the public eye.

If he became mayor, how would that be a threat? He could ban vigilantes like Batman and he’d have Gordon and the rest on his tail. Hell, he’d probably let his buddies like Joker, Riddler, and Mad Hatter run wild and do whatever they want in the city.

Penguin is a huge threat, and the whole point is he deceives you; the man can erase evidence and get rid of it efficiently and quickly. This makes him damn near impossible to jail. You see? Batman can’t just beat him with fists, he has to use his own mind to combat Cobblepot’s mind. Why do you think Batman would say he’s the most brilliant man he’s ever fought? Because of those reasons, and you’re downplaying his abilities.

It’s obvious you haven’t looked into the character much, and I think you just have a bias against him.

@b4tm4nish3r3: I don't care if you think I have a bias against him. I don't like him because he's a bad villain not because of some unfounded bias. Once again you fail to prove how he is a threat. None of the stuff you mentioned is a threat to batman. Mobs are not a threat or challenge to batman. He's dealt with people who control mobs and the undrworld before, including penguin in the past.

Dude vigilantes are technically already banned by the law. Vigilantism is illegal. So is trespassing and assault and everything else batman does. You think he'd give a care about a ban? As I said before a hundred times, at one point he was a smart and challenged batman, but those statements from batman are not relevant anymore and aren't true anymore. He has fallen off as a villain and as a threat and has become a crappy villain.

I don't have to look into the character very much. I have read many batman stories with penguin in them. That's all I need to base my opinion off of.

@jayc1324: I’m basing my argument on all of Penguin’s history, not just this time period of comics. You’re still missing the point.

In Gotham, Gordon lets Batman gets by with it, and the cops do as well, so it’s barely illegal in Gotham knowing they need him. Penguin could easily outlaw them and force the police to go against Batman, you do know that right?

I’m starting to doubt you; you’re not really giving any good reasons as to why he’s not a threat. You’re just saying, “He’s just a mob boss that can be handled easily”, but that simply isn’t the case. I refer to my previous comment as to why he’s a threat.

@b4tm4nish3r3: Dude, in batman eternal right now, as we speak, the police force is against batman. Gordon is in jail and they have tried to take down batman many times going so far as to have lucious fox control his batmobile remotely while he was inside of it and make him drive out the window of a skyscraper. But he still survived. The cops have been after him for almost all of batman eternal and he kept going just fine. Like I said, a ban won't stop or threaten batman and this proves it.

No. Him being just a mob boss is the case. Sure In the past he was more but right now that's all he is. He can be handled easily now.

Like I said before too, using feats decades old to prove your point about penguin now is pointless. That's like me saying superman is the most powerful guy ever because he sneezed away galaxies in the silver age. Or that batman is a murderer for killing people in the 40s. That stuff doesn't apply now and neither does who penguin was back then. Penguin offers nothing new or challenging for batman. And I have proved it.

@jayc1324: You didn't prove anything, you're just being insistent with your opinion. You're reasoning is shaky, and you've yet to actually show anything that would indicate you are correct. More than that, your arguments could be applied to multiple Batman villains. They don't seem particular to Penguin.

Do you feel the same way about Hatter and Scarface?I guess since Batman can beat them up easily, they are both bad villians, right?