What kind of things are essential to a good Batman story? Character Development? Interaction? Action?

I would think that his detective skills are important, but Snyder's stuff doesn't seem to necessarily rely on it. I think what's most important to a good Batman story is mystery and suspense. That's why when I heard famous mystery and suspense writer Gregg Hurwitz was to take over Batman TDK I had high hopes. I think the story arc is still stuck while it focuses on Scarecrow, but maybe the next arc will be interesting.

Important to keep the story simple imo! so one can follow the progression, good writing of course, maybe a little cuss words thrown in the mix hehe.

imo an example of a good Batman comic: Legends of the dark knight: Sleeping....good arc in that story!

... the one u pick up dog poo with at the park.

@LoganX360 said:

... the one u pick up dog poo with at the park.

Oh man, I totally forgot about that one! Thanks for reminding me!

Well, if there's anything I've noticed about the good as in well recieved Batman comics, is that they involve, trauma and perserverance. "Knightfall" 'Court of Owls" That storyline with the Black Glove, "Killing Joke" "A Death in the Family" etc. All of them involve either Batman or someone close to him, getting beaten/tortured/murdererd, and then Batman rising from his defeat be it phyiscal or emotional and eventually overcoming his enemy.

yeah like a REAL Ameriacan patriot! :>

for me the best batman stories have been year one and the long halloween..year one was a story that showed a side of gotham i as a BTAS watcher never knew of while the long halloween had a gripping story of dent's struggle combined with an overarching mystery....these are the element i look for in batman comics...

Good writing and character development and don't give him some random love interest that were gonna forget in the next 2 volumes like the one in Detective Comic and the Dark Knight (comic not movie) and don't make him a batgod.

Character development does not really fit the character IMO. Nobody really wants Batman to change.

The best Batman stories (Killing Joke, Ego, Gothic, Arkham Asylum, Absolution, Morrison's entire run, ...) are analyses of who he is but they do not change who he is.

A great villain reflecting something about Batman definitely helps.

What Batman stories do not need however are cheap twists. That is why I find Snyder's run a little bland and lame. Basically, it's just "EVERYTHING YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW ABOUT BATMAN IS WRONG!!!" In RIP, Morrison was pretty much making fun of this type of stupid RetCons with his rumours about the Waynes (which actually were invented by Hurt to destabilize Bruce Wayne in the future, him being a living time paradox created by Darkseid to kill Batman).

@LoganX360 said:

... the one u pick up dog poo with at the park.

God are you annoying

Detective work, intelligent writing, a good villain and a sense of darkness.

spot on!!!

Batman.

Duh.

@FatihBATMAN said:

Important to keep the story simple imo! so one can follow the progression, good writing of course, maybe a little cuss words thrown in the mix hehe.

imo an example of a good Batman comic: Legends of the dark knight: Sleeping....good arc in that story!

I don't know about the cussing, just look at All Star Batman: "I'm the G*d Da*n Batman" One of the worst lines ever in my opinion.

@PortlandsBatman said:

@FatihBATMAN said:

Important to keep the story simple imo! so one can follow the progression, good writing of course, maybe a little cuss words thrown in the mix hehe.

imo an example of a good Batman comic: Legends of the dark knight: Sleeping....good arc in that story!

I don't know about the cussing, just look at All Star Batman: "I'm the G*d Da*n Batman" One of the worst lines ever in my opinion.

You forgot the part where he called Robin "dense" and "retarded".

@PortlandsBatman: Oh, come on. that shit's genius and hilarious. I really want to pick up All-Star Batman & Robin one of these days. I have a feeling I'd be smiling the whole damn time.

I'm mean I'm sure it's trash... but funny, entertaining trash? I have my fingers crossed. Also, hello fellow Portlander. Your avatar is hilariously stereotypical, in the best way.

@DarKnightNoir: To each their own on the All Star I guess.

And as far as my avitar goes I made it myself; I draw a comic strip called Portland's Batman. Being from Portland you may like it.

http://portlandsbatman.tumblr.com/

A story where batman is legitametly challenged. DC let writers like Morrison fanwank Batman and turn him into BatGod with extreme prep power and access to incredibly powerful weapons like the insider suit and the augmentation suit and an extreme intellect with a backup plan for every backup plan and gave him superhuman level feats.It makes it hard to believe that some of his villians would be an actual challenge to him. they did this Fanwanking to Superman in the 50's and look at how hard it is for writers to write a good superman story where readers can believe that the villian would be an actual challenge to him. DC needs to stop writers from doing all this fanwanking before batman ends up like superman.

@DarthShap: That's true, Snyder does use a lot of twists. Still, as cliche as they may be, I really like them! When I read The Black Mirror, I certainly didn't think, "Wow Scott, I don't how many more surprises I can handle," it was more like, "Hm, based on the information so far, I can conclude that the next twist will be..." Because there are so many twists, you can usually somewhat predict the next one, without being absolutely certain something will happen. I think it makes it more interesting!

That said, some twists Snyder has used have been a let down.

@Eternal19 said:

A story where batman is legitametly challenged. DC let writers like Morrison fanwank Batman and turn him into BatGod with extreme prep power and access to incredibly powerful weapons like the insider suit and the augmentation suit and an extreme intellect with a backup plan for every backup plan and gave him superhuman level feats.It makes it hard to believe that some of his villians would be an actual challenge to him. they did this Fanwanking to Superman in the 50's and look at how hard it is for writers to write a good superman story where readers can believe that the villian would be an actual challenge to him. DC needs to stop writers from doing all this fanwanking before batman ends up like superman.

I like the Morrison interpretation of the character a lot, personally. I also liked having the Dick Grayson Batman to play the more fallible role.

@DarKnightNoir said:

@Eternal19 said:

A story where batman is legitametly challenged. DC let writers like Morrison fanwank Batman and turn him into BatGod with extreme prep power and access to incredibly powerful weapons like the insider suit and the augmentation suit and an extreme intellect with a backup plan for every backup plan and gave him superhuman level feats.It makes it hard to believe that some of his villians would be an actual challenge to him. they did this Fanwanking to Superman in the 50's and look at how hard it is for writers to write a good superman story where readers can believe that the villian would be an actual challenge to him. DC needs to stop writers from doing all this fanwanking before batman ends up like superman.

I like the Morrison interpretation of the character a lot, personally. I also liked having the Dick Grayson Batman to play the more fallible role.

I also enjoyed Morrison's run on Batman and Robin and I like Batman and son and his current Batman inc storyline. I didnt really enjoy Batman R.I.P. though

That right mix of street level crime fighter and larger than life comic book story aspects.

yes agreed! no cussing!! sorry :

@gotwillpower: Please use a spoiler warning... I am reading the Court of Owls and I don't like knowing how they end/who the villain may be before I read them

phew glad i didnt read the spoilers..

...

Batman can be written many ways and different stories are good for different reasons. Batman can have humor noir, action, thriller, horror, or drama... the best stories though combine all these elements together well. Most of the books that people would consider the best have all these elements, plus a few i can't think of at the second, in them that while reading you don't think about, but they're there... Basically the best stories let you discover these elements and makes you feel clever by allowing you to be just slightly ahead of character or right there with them and lets you connect with the character.

A lot of writers try to do this by not revealing things that the characters know, but it never comes up in the story in any way, and then the character is all like "oh yeah! this is the answer" and then they go over the story and try to act like you're an idiot for not figuring it out even though they never gave you a key detail. Keep an eye out for writers that do this and then compare them to some story that are considered really good.

On a side note, if you like thinking your way through various problems you should pick up and read Liar Game. I think it is brilliant and really anyone that like mystery/detective stuff, should pick it up and give a read.

What makes a good Batman story relies on a good writer who understands how to fit their storytelling into the whole Gotham City theme. Keep the villains fresh and exciting and don't stifle the storylines with overcomplicated underworld crimelord plans. Good writers for Batman would be Doug Moench, Chuck Dixon, Grant Morrison and Jeph Loeb. Devin Grayson and Frank Miller are good but Devin made the storylines to involved with the emotional side of Bruce Wayne and the feelings of his family. Frank Miller got very pretentious with All Star Batman. Good artists make a world of difference too. Paul Gulacy did some artwork and he would draw great fight scenes. Scott Mcdaniel would draw great action moments where you'd see Batman/Nightwing/whomever leaping from building to building using mutliple images of the hero in one panel. So you need a good artist who keeps the artwork pleasing on the eye (I'd actually place this top of the list for comics). A good storyteller who can write highly intelligent storylines. You need to make the storylines intelligent because Batman is intelligent as is the complicated detective work involved. The storyarcs shouldn't be drawn out. I personally felt that the story arc of Bruce Wayne the murderer/fugitive was quite painfully drawn out and some of the comics were painful to read through.

@Red_Jack said:

Scott Mcdaniel would draw great action moments where you'd see Batman/Nightwing/whomever leaping from building to building using mutliple images of the hero in one panel.

this so much....