What do you want to see in Bat-titles?

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#1 Posted by conradoaccorsi (301 posts) - - Show Bio

First,I would like to see Kate Kane retire after her marriage,so can Barbara Gordon turn into Batwoman,because Dick was Robin and turned into Nightwing,Barbara was Batgirl and turned into Batgirl? This don't make sense,Dick can turn mature but what about her? Even retired Kate could teach her something,could be his Oracle. After that Steph could turn back into Batgirl after some months of training in China with Cass.

Harper Row should turn into the new Oracle or the new Harold. Batman should continue without a Robin. In the Batcave,right after Jason costume could be Damian costume.

Cassandra should come back as Black Bat but with a more high-tech costume.

#2 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@conradoaccorsi said:

First,I would like to see Kate Kane retire after her marriage,so can Barbara Gordon turn into Batwoman,because Dick was Robin and turned into Nightwing,Barbara was Batgirl and turned into Batgirl? This don't make sense,Dick can turn mature but what about her? Even retired Kate could teach her something,could be his Oracle. After that Steph could turn back into Batgirl after some months of training in China with Cass.

Harper Row should turn into the new Oracle or the new Harold. Batman should continue without a Robin. In the Batcave,right after Jason costume could be Damian costume.

Cassandra should come back as Black Bat but with a more high-tech costume.

#3 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

But in all seriousness, if Barbara was to move on from being Batgirl, she'd be better off taking on a name that doesn't have 'bat' in it.

#4 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

Barbara-girl :P

#5 Posted by gettogaara (164 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really think Barbara should move on from Batgirl just yet. I mean she's been having a real hard time so far in New 52. If anything, maybe she should go back to working with Batman for a little while to sharpen her skills.

I do prefer the idea of Harper Row as Oracle than Robin. Based on the cover of Batman #18 Damian's costume will be under glass. There definitely shouldn't be another Robin for a while.

#6 Edited by The_Tree (7464 posts) - - Show Bio

Retcon everything from The New 52 that doesn't fit with the old timeline and I'll be one happy camper. Tim wouldn't be an ass, Babs would be Oracle, Steph and Cass would exist as Batgirl and Blackbat, former incarnations of the Birds of Prey and the Outsiders would still exist, and the characters wouldn't be subject to a s###ty five year timeline.

#7 Posted by SmashBrawler (5732 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

Retcon everything from The New 52 that doesn't fit with the old timeline and I'll be one happy camper. Tim wouldn't be an ass, Babs would be Oracle, Steph and Cass would exist as Batgirl and Blackbat, former incarnations of the Birds of Prey and the Outsiders would still exist, and the characters wouldn't be subject to a s###ty fiver year timeline.

This. Also, less crossovers.

#8 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

Damian Alive and Well!

#9 Posted by batshrine (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@conradoaccorsi said:

First,I would like to see Kate Kane retire after her marriage,so can Barbara Gordon turn into Batwoman,because Dick was Robin and turned into Nightwing,Barbara was Batgirl and turned into Batgirl? This don't make sense,Dick can turn mature but what about her? Even retired Kate could teach her something,could be his Oracle. After that Steph could turn back into Batgirl after some months of training in China with Cass.

Harper Row should turn into the new Oracle or the new Harold. Batman should continue without a Robin. In the Batcave,right after Jason costume could be Damian costume.

Cassandra should come back as Black Bat but with a more high-tech costume.

I would just like to point out that Barbara has more experience and skill than Kate...However I do agree that DC doesn't like evolving its female characters.

#10 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

i agree to that batshrine

#11 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@batshrine said:

@conradoaccorsi said:

First,I would like to see Kate Kane retire after her marriage,so can Barbara Gordon turn into Batwoman,because Dick was Robin and turned into Nightwing,Barbara was Batgirl and turned into Batgirl? This don't make sense,Dick can turn mature but what about her? Even retired Kate could teach her something,could be his Oracle. After that Steph could turn back into Batgirl after some months of training in China with Cass.

Harper Row should turn into the new Oracle or the new Harold. Batman should continue without a Robin. In the Batcave,right after Jason costume could be Damian costume.

Cassandra should come back as Black Bat but with a more high-tech costume.

I would just like to point out that Barbara has more experience and skill than Kate...However I do agree that DC doesn't like evolving its female characters.

I can understand more experience, but is she definitely more skilled?

I'm not a regular Batgirl reader, but I have read #12 where Kate easily beats her in a fight. That's the only way I know of to compare their skills.

Are there other ways to compare their skills in the New 52? I've only read that one issue of Batgirl, so I've got no way of checking for myself.

#12 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

Kate is older i presume? that way she has more experience i presume?

#13 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@FatihBATMAN said:

Kate is older i presume? that way she has more experience i presume?

Kate is 32/33, I don't know how old Barbara is, but she must be younger than that.

Barbara may have had more time as a costumed vigilante, so she may have more experience in that respect. But Kate is older and will have had more general life experience.

I don't know who has gone through more training for their vigilante work, but I know that Kate went through three years of intense training with ex-S.A.S. members.

A few quotes form Batwoman #0: Interlude, describing her training.

"Leaping across buildings in Tokyo, ripping along a Swiss mountain in a glider suit, weaving through London traffic at a hundred miles an hour on a motorcycle."

"In a torture chamber below Paris, I had all that Ignorance stripped away. I learned what it felt like to run thirty six miles with four broken ribs and lungs burned by tear gas, to climb six stories with a dislocated arm and a ruptured achilles, to endure seven days of nonstop electro-interrogation and sleep deprivation and water boarding."

"And then I crossed the Sahara on foot, living off insects and snakes and a teaspoon of morning dew."

"In a boxing ring in Serbia, I had that overconfidence beaten out of me. I learned how to fight with a concussion, blind and deaf, even standing in a puddle of my own blood."

"And then I spent two weeks in a basement in Prague, surrounded by crime scene photos, listening to audio tapes of kidnapped runaways being tortured by psychopaths who slipped through the system again and again, watching web cam footage that no-one will admit exists, directed and starring a half dozen serial killers and their victims."

So she went through a brutal training regime to prove to herself and to her dad that she was ready to become Batwoman. Plus she had all of her Army training before that.

I don't know what training Barbara did for becoming Batgirl, but if it's more than what I've described Kate doing, maybe Barbara is more experienced and skilled. I honestly don't know though, as I'm not a Batgirl reader.

#14 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

sick...nice info

#15 Posted by fury714 (589 posts) - - Show Bio

I wanna see Deathstroke mixing it up with the bat-family. Should be hella fun.

#16 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

like teaming up or?

#17 Posted by SupBatz (1734 posts) - - Show Bio

@conradoaccorsi said:

First,I would like to see Kate Kane retire after her marriage,so can Barbara Gordon turn into Batwoman,

...No.

Once New 52 Barbara evolves a bit more then we can start talking about her moving on from being Batgirl to a new and more independent identity. And whenever that does happen, she doesn't need to retire Kate who, as far as I'm concerned, has proved herself worthy of the Batwoman name one-hundred times more than Barbara has in the past year and a half.

#18 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz said:

@conradoaccorsi said:

First,I would like to see Kate Kane retire after her marriage,so can Barbara Gordon turn into Batwoman,

...No.

Once New 52 Barbara evolves a bit more then we can start talking about her moving on from being Batgirl to a new and more independent identity. And whenever that does happen, she doesn't need to retire Kate who, as far as I'm concerned, has proved herself worthy of the Batwoman name one-hundred times more than Barbara has in the past year and a half.

Has Barbara not been so good?

#19 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont see how barbara can move on from being batgirl.... unless she gets crippled again.. and dons the oracle persona hehe

#20 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@FatihBATMAN said:

i dont see how barbara can move on from being batgirl.... unless she gets crippled again.. and dons the oracle persona hehe

If she moved out of Gotham, she could maybe take on a new hero identity, and leave the Batgirl title to someone in Gotham to take over.

#21 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

Or...Kate could move on to stage two from batwoman to batgranny and barbara can take the mantle as batwoman!

#22 Posted by SupBatz (1734 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: It's really a matter of opinion. Honestly, my opinion is partly influenced by the fact that I loved Barbara as Oracle so much and I haven't seen very much of her in Batgirl since the reboot. When reading Batgirl I feel like I'm looking at a very different character who lost the intelligence about her and confidence which once made her so great in my eyes. I'm also a little peeved at Steph not getting a lot of time as Batgirl. But that's more of an anecdote than an actual reason for disliking the series.

But that's not the only reason that I've been displeased with Batgirl. As you've undoubtably heard, the series has Barbara recovering from recently regaining mobility in her legs. So it's to be expected that she'd be a bit rusty when fighting crime. But I feel like Simone overplays the victim aspect of the character. A year and a half in and I feel like she hasn't really grown much. And one would expect that Barbara would only grow as a character after gaining mobility of her legs again.

Aside for that, I don't think any of the Batgirl stories have been very memorable or noteworthy. And I don't really like the way Simone approaches her villains. They usually start out pretty interesting but lose a lot of momentum as the story progresses until the villains have a similar "victim" aspect driving their characters (like Barbara).

However, it may not be my cup of tea but a lot of people do enjoy Batgirl so if you want to give it a try don't stop on my account. There are a lot of dissenting opinions when it comes to Batgirl at the moment.

#23 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: It's really a matter of opinion. Honestly, my opinion is partly influenced by the fact that I loved Barbara as Oracle so much and I haven't seen very much of her in Batgirl since the reboot. When reading Batgirl I feel like I'm looking at a very different character who lost the intelligence about her and confidence which once made her so great in my eyes. I'm also a little peeved at Steph not getting a lot of time as Batgirl. But that's more of an anecdote than an actual reason for disliking the series.

But that's not the only reason that I've been displeased with Batgirl. As you've undoubtably heard, the series has Barbara recovering from recently regaining mobility in her legs. So it's to be expected that she'd be a bit rusty when fighting crime. But I feel like Simone overplays the victim aspect of the character. A year and a half in and I feel like she hasn't really grown much. And one would expect that Barbara would only grow as a character after gaining mobility of her legs again.

Aside for that, I don't think any of the Batgirl stories have been very memorable or noteworthy. And I don't really like the way Simone approaches her villains. They usually start out pretty interesting but lose a lot of momentum as the story progresses until the villains have a similar "victim" aspect driving their characters (like Barbara).

However, it may not be my cup of tea but a lot of people do enjoy Batgirl so if you want to give it a try don't stop on my account. There are a lot of dissenting opinions when it comes to Batgirl at the moment.

Interesting points, I'll look out for these things if I get a chance to read it at some point. I can't afford to start buying another series, but if I can get TPBs cheap, I maybe will.

I only have one issue of it, so re-reading that probably wouldn't be enough to get a good idea of the series. Unless #12 is a good example?

#24 Posted by SupBatz (1734 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@SupBatz said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: It's really a matter of opinion. Honestly, my opinion is partly influenced by the fact that I loved Barbara as Oracle so much and I haven't seen very much of her in Batgirl since the reboot. When reading Batgirl I feel like I'm looking at a very different character who lost the intelligence about her and confidence which once made her so great in my eyes. I'm also a little peeved at Steph not getting a lot of time as Batgirl. But that's more of an anecdote than an actual reason for disliking the series.

But that's not the only reason that I've been displeased with Batgirl. As you've undoubtably heard, the series has Barbara recovering from recently regaining mobility in her legs. So it's to be expected that she'd be a bit rusty when fighting crime. But I feel like Simone overplays the victim aspect of the character. A year and a half in and I feel like she hasn't really grown much. And one would expect that Barbara would only grow as a character after gaining mobility of her legs again.

Aside for that, I don't think any of the Batgirl stories have been very memorable or noteworthy. And I don't really like the way Simone approaches her villains. They usually start out pretty interesting but lose a lot of momentum as the story progresses until the villains have a similar "victim" aspect driving their characters (like Barbara).

However, it may not be my cup of tea but a lot of people do enjoy Batgirl so if you want to give it a try don't stop on my account. There are a lot of dissenting opinions when it comes to Batgirl at the moment.

Interesting points, I'll look out for these things if I get a chance to read it at some point. I can't afford to start buying another series, but if I can get TPBs cheap, I maybe will.

I only have one issue of it, so re-reading that probably wouldn't be enough to get a good idea of the series. Unless #12 is a good example?

I'm with you there. I'd love to start reading Wonder Woman and Justice League Dark but I've reached my series limit >.<

Cheap TPBs are probably my best bet as well.

I read issues 1-15 of Batgirl before dropping the series. I can't specifically remember whether or not issue 12 is the best representative for the whole series (that's the one where Batgirl and Batwoman fight/team up, right?). The only thing I really remember about that issue is wondering why they bothered bringing in Batwoman. I love her and all but she didn't really add anything to the plot as far as I remember. Felt to me like they just felt the need to throw together the two girls in the current Bat-family for a team-up.

#25 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@SupBatz said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: It's really a matter of opinion. Honestly, my opinion is partly influenced by the fact that I loved Barbara as Oracle so much and I haven't seen very much of her in Batgirl since the reboot. When reading Batgirl I feel like I'm looking at a very different character who lost the intelligence about her and confidence which once made her so great in my eyes. I'm also a little peeved at Steph not getting a lot of time as Batgirl. But that's more of an anecdote than an actual reason for disliking the series.

But that's not the only reason that I've been displeased with Batgirl. As you've undoubtably heard, the series has Barbara recovering from recently regaining mobility in her legs. So it's to be expected that she'd be a bit rusty when fighting crime. But I feel like Simone overplays the victim aspect of the character. A year and a half in and I feel like she hasn't really grown much. And one would expect that Barbara would only grow as a character after gaining mobility of her legs again.

Aside for that, I don't think any of the Batgirl stories have been very memorable or noteworthy. And I don't really like the way Simone approaches her villains. They usually start out pretty interesting but lose a lot of momentum as the story progresses until the villains have a similar "victim" aspect driving their characters (like Barbara).

However, it may not be my cup of tea but a lot of people do enjoy Batgirl so if you want to give it a try don't stop on my account. There are a lot of dissenting opinions when it comes to Batgirl at the moment.

Interesting points, I'll look out for these things if I get a chance to read it at some point. I can't afford to start buying another series, but if I can get TPBs cheap, I maybe will.

I only have one issue of it, so re-reading that probably wouldn't be enough to get a good idea of the series. Unless #12 is a good example?

I'm with you there. I'd love to start reading Wonder Woman and Justice League Dark but I've reached my series limit >.<

Cheap TPBs are probably my best bet as well.

I read issues 1-15 of Batgirl before dropping the series. I can't specifically remember whether or not issue 12 is the best representative for the whole series (that's the one where Batgirl and Batwoman fight/team up, right?). The only thing I really remember about that issue is wondering why they bothered bringing in Batwoman. I love her and all but she didn't really add anything to the plot as far as I remember. Felt to me like they just felt the need to throw together the two girls in the current Bat-family for a team-up.

That's unfortunate, Justice League Dark is really good, though the current arc is probably the least good so far. Probably just because it's gone a bit sci-fi at the moment.

That's the one. I think it was because the D.E.O. was after someone Batgirl knows, and sent Batwoman to bring her in, or something. I'll have to check. Batwoman isn't actually part of the Bat-Family though, so I don't quite get what the point would be. Am I right in thinking Batwoman is in #13 too?

#26 Edited by SupBatz (1734 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: I heard that it really picked up around issue 7 so I was thinking about skipping the first TPB and getting the second first. If you've been keeping up with the series would you advise against that?

After having read the previous and following issues in that Batgirl arc, throwing Kate into the mix just felt thrown in unnecessarily to me. She really had very little to do with the arc aside for fighting Batgirl and then realizing they were on the same side.

True, Kate isn't really part of the Bat-family. I voiced that wrong. What I meant was that Kate's inclusion in that arc felt to me like an excuse to get the two female "Bat" characters together. Which is fine in itself but the lack of real substance to Kate's inclusion was too gimmick-y for my tastes.

Yes, Batwoman did also appear in issue 13. But honestly, it was for about one page in which she mostly stood around and had maybe two lines of dialogue.

By the way, have you read Batwoman 17 yet?

You were right about Alice ;). Good call.
I'm actually kind of sad that the Batwoman-Wonder Woman team up is over. I really liked seeing the two as partners.
#27 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: I heard that it really picked up around issue 7 so I was thinking about skipping the first TPB and getting the second first. If you've been keeping up with the series would you advise against that?

After having read the previous and following issues in that Batgirl arc, throwing Kate into the mix just felt thrown in unnecessarily to me. She really had very little to do with the arc aside for fighting Batgirl and then realizing they were on the same side.

True, Kate isn't really part of the Bat-family. I voiced that wrong. What I meant was that Kate's inclusion in that arc felt to me like an excuse to get the two female "Bat" characters together. Which is fine in itself but the lack of real substance to Kate's inclusion was too gimmick-y for my tastes.

Yes, Batwoman did also appear in issue 13. But honestly, it was for about one page in which she mostly stood around and had maybe two lines of dialogue.

By the way, have you read Batwoman 17 yet?

You were right about Alice ;). Good call.
I'm actually kind of sad that the Batwoman-Wonder Woman team up is over. I really liked seeing the two as partners.

Yeah, Bat-characters is better. I think other people mix it up a bit too. Maybe it was just a gimmick to get some extra sales, which did work with me anyway. :)

Maybe it was just a lack of ideas if it didn't go anywhere. Like, throw in a fight with another fairly well know character for a bit of filler.

I'll maybe leave #13 then, I didn't bother with #11 because it was just one panel. I'll probably have to get them at some point for collecting purposes though.

And yes I have read it, and was thoroughly impressed. :D

I was three issues early, but it was on the last page of an issue, so I came pretty close. :)

I did enjoy them working together, but it makes sense for it to be over now, seeing as Medusa's gone. But If another similar big threat came along, I'd probably be O.K. with it.

#28 Posted by SupBatz (1734 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@SupBatz said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: I heard that it really picked up around issue 7 so I was thinking about skipping the first TPB and getting the second first. If you've been keeping up with the series would you advise against that?

After having read the previous and following issues in that Batgirl arc, throwing Kate into the mix just felt thrown in unnecessarily to me. She really had very little to do with the arc aside for fighting Batgirl and then realizing they were on the same side.

True, Kate isn't really part of the Bat-family. I voiced that wrong. What I meant was that Kate's inclusion in that arc felt to me like an excuse to get the two female "Bat" characters together. Which is fine in itself but the lack of real substance to Kate's inclusion was too gimmick-y for my tastes.

Yes, Batwoman did also appear in issue 13. But honestly, it was for about one page in which she mostly stood around and had maybe two lines of dialogue.

By the way, have you read Batwoman 17 yet?

You were right about Alice ;). Good call.
I'm actually kind of sad that the Batwoman-Wonder Woman team up is over. I really liked seeing the two as partners.

Yeah, Bat-characters is better. I think other people mix it up a bit too. Maybe it was just a gimmick to get some extra sales, which did work with me anyway. :)

Maybe it was just a lack of ideas if it didn't go anywhere. Like, throw in a fight with another fairly well know character for a bit of filler.

I'll maybe leave #13 then, I didn't bother with #11 because it was just one panel. I'll probably have to get them at some point for collecting purposes though.

And yes I have read it, and was thoroughly impressed. :D

I was three issues early, but it was on the last page of an issue, so I came pretty close. :)

I did enjoy them working together, but it makes sense for it to be over now, seeing as Medusa's gone. But If another similar big threat came along, I'd probably be O.K. with it.

I suppose it did work then xD. Then again, seeing Batwoman in Batgirl is actually part of the reason I decided to look into Kate a bit more and eventually buy Batwoman from the beginning so it worked both ways.

By the way, I've been hearing a few different opinions about Justice League Dark. You said you read it so mind helping me out? I read somewhere that the first arc in JLD wasn't very impressive but everything from issues 7 onward has been good. Would you reccommend I skip the first TPB if I go for the series or do you think the first arc is worth buying as well?

You were definitely close enough with the prediction. I wonder how they're going to go about reintroducing Alice. I'm hoping we get some more insight into what happened to Beth since she was taken.

Oh yeah, Batwoman and Wonder Woman parting makes plenty of sense. The reason they teamed up was becase of the whole Mythology aspect of Medusa. But still, Kate is known for tackling the more supernatural stuff in Gotham. I think it'd be cool to see a World's Finest sort of series starring the two someday.
#29 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@SupBatz said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: I heard that it really picked up around issue 7 so I was thinking about skipping the first TPB and getting the second first. If you've been keeping up with the series would you advise against that?

After having read the previous and following issues in that Batgirl arc, throwing Kate into the mix just felt thrown in unnecessarily to me. She really had very little to do with the arc aside for fighting Batgirl and then realizing they were on the same side.

True, Kate isn't really part of the Bat-family. I voiced that wrong. What I meant was that Kate's inclusion in that arc felt to me like an excuse to get the two female "Bat" characters together. Which is fine in itself but the lack of real substance to Kate's inclusion was too gimmick-y for my tastes.

Yes, Batwoman did also appear in issue 13. But honestly, it was for about one page in which she mostly stood around and had maybe two lines of dialogue.

By the way, have you read Batwoman 17 yet?

You were right about Alice ;). Good call.
I'm actually kind of sad that the Batwoman-Wonder Woman team up is over. I really liked seeing the two as partners.

Yeah, Bat-characters is better. I think other people mix it up a bit too. Maybe it was just a gimmick to get some extra sales, which did work with me anyway. :)

Maybe it was just a lack of ideas if it didn't go anywhere. Like, throw in a fight with another fairly well know character for a bit of filler.

I'll maybe leave #13 then, I didn't bother with #11 because it was just one panel. I'll probably have to get them at some point for collecting purposes though.

And yes I have read it, and was thoroughly impressed. :D

I was three issues early, but it was on the last page of an issue, so I came pretty close. :)

I did enjoy them working together, but it makes sense for it to be over now, seeing as Medusa's gone. But If another similar big threat came along, I'd probably be O.K. with it.

I suppose it did work then xD. Then again, seeing Batwoman in Batgirl is actually part of the reason I decided to look into Kate a bit more and eventually buy Batwoman from the beginning so it worked both ways.

By the way, I've been hearing a few different opinions about Justice League Dark. You said you read it so mind helping me out? I read somewhere that the first arc in JLD wasn't very impressive but everything from issues 7 onward has been good. Would you reccommend I skip the first TPB if I go for the series or do you think the first arc is worth buying as well?

You were definitely close enough with the prediction. I wonder how they're going to go about reintroducing Alice. I'm hoping we get some more insight into what happened to Beth since she was taken.

Oh yeah, Batwoman and Wonder Woman parting makes plenty of sense. The reason they teamed up was becase of the whole Mythology aspect of Medusa. But still, Kate is known for tackling the more supernatural stuff in Gotham. I think it'd be cool to see a World's Finest sort of series starring the two someday.

Well at least something good came of it. :)

It's an interesting question. The thing is, the first arc was really about the forming of the team, but in issue 5 or 6, a character, Mindwarp is absent, and another, Enchantress is said to be sitting things out because of things that happened in the first arc. And in issue 8, another, Shade disappears into the Area of Madness . None of these characters have been heard from since.

I really liked the first arc, issues 7 and 8 were crossovers with I, Vampire, and were pretty good, but may have been better if I'd been read the I, Vampire tie-in issues. From issue 9 onwards, it has been good despite the line-up being different to what I'd like. I'd say it's worth getting the first TPB. I don't know when the second TPB will be out, and I'm not sure if it'll include issues 7 and 8, as they were in the I, Vampire: Rise Of The Vampires TPB. Issue 9 is where Jeff Lemire took over from Peter Milligan, so they might just start with his issues.

I'll be very interested to see more from Alice, and yes, I'd like to know where she was taken. I have a very loose unlikely prediction on the Bones family connection that relates to Alice if you're interested.

Yeah, I'd read that

#30 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@SupBatz said:

@conradoaccorsi said:

First,I would like to see Kate Kane retire after her marriage,so can Barbara Gordon turn into Batwoman,

...No.

Once New 52 Barbara evolves a bit more then we can start talking about her moving on from being Batgirl to a new and more independent identity. And whenever that does happen, she doesn't need to retire Kate who, as far as I'm concerned, has proved herself worthy of the Batwoman name one-hundred times more than Barbara has in the past year and a half.

Has Barbara not been so good?

No she hasnt

I also vote for Barb to be crippled, or that she takes the place of Damian Wayne

#31 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@SupBatz said:

@conradoaccorsi said:

First,I would like to see Kate Kane retire after her marriage,so can Barbara Gordon turn into Batwoman,

...No.

Once New 52 Barbara evolves a bit more then we can start talking about her moving on from being Batgirl to a new and more independent identity. And whenever that does happen, she doesn't need to retire Kate who, as far as I'm concerned, has proved herself worthy of the Batwoman name one-hundred times more than Barbara has in the past year and a half.

Has Barbara not been so good?

No she hasnt

I also vote for Barb to be crippled, or that she takes the place of Damian Wayne

A Barbara Robin? That's an interesting idea. Who would you have as the new Batgirl, if you'd want one at all?

#32 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@arnoldoaad said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@SupBatz said:

@conradoaccorsi said:

First,I would like to see Kate Kane retire after her marriage,so can Barbara Gordon turn into Batwoman,

...No.

Once New 52 Barbara evolves a bit more then we can start talking about her moving on from being Batgirl to a new and more independent identity. And whenever that does happen, she doesn't need to retire Kate who, as far as I'm concerned, has proved herself worthy of the Batwoman name one-hundred times more than Barbara has in the past year and a half.

Has Barbara not been so good?

No she hasnt

I also vote for Barb to be crippled, or that she takes the place of Damian Wayne

A Barbara Robin? That's an interesting idea. Who would you have as the new Batgirl, if you'd want one at all?

sorry, i meant that she should take Damian's place on Batman Inc #8, I should had been more clear on that i apologize for the confusion

#33 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad:Ah right, O.K.

Have you got any thoughts on who you'd like to see in Batman And Robin?

#34 Edited by The_Tree (7464 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: Well, it seems that DC's revealed the order of guest appearances:

  • #19 - Red Robin
  • #20 - Red Hood
  • #21 - Batgirl
  • #22 - Catwoman
  • #23 - Nightwing

I couldn't care less about Batgirl or Catwoman. I wonder if that means we'll have a new Robin by September.

LINK

#35 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree: Thanks for that, I was wondering who they'd be and in what order. I'll probably get the Catwoman issue. :)

September seems awfully quick, but then again, I don't know what they'd do after these five issues.

#36 Edited by SupBatz (1734 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@SupBatz said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@SupBatz said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: I heard that it really picked up around issue 7 so I was thinking about skipping the first TPB and getting the second first. If you've been keeping up with the series would you advise against that?

After having read the previous and following issues in that Batgirl arc, throwing Kate into the mix just felt thrown in unnecessarily to me. She really had very little to do with the arc aside for fighting Batgirl and then realizing they were on the same side.

True, Kate isn't really part of the Bat-family. I voiced that wrong. What I meant was that Kate's inclusion in that arc felt to me like an excuse to get the two female "Bat" characters together. Which is fine in itself but the lack of real substance to Kate's inclusion was too gimmick-y for my tastes.

Yes, Batwoman did also appear in issue 13. But honestly, it was for about one page in which she mostly stood around and had maybe two lines of dialogue.

By the way, have you read Batwoman 17 yet?

You were right about Alice ;). Good call.
I'm actually kind of sad that the Batwoman-Wonder Woman team up is over. I really liked seeing the two as partners.

Yeah, Bat-characters is better. I think other people mix it up a bit too. Maybe it was just a gimmick to get some extra sales, which did work with me anyway. :)

Maybe it was just a lack of ideas if it didn't go anywhere. Like, throw in a fight with another fairly well know character for a bit of filler.

I'll maybe leave #13 then, I didn't bother with #11 because it was just one panel. I'll probably have to get them at some point for collecting purposes though.

And yes I have read it, and was thoroughly impressed. :D

I was three issues early, but it was on the last page of an issue, so I came pretty close. :)

I did enjoy them working together, but it makes sense for it to be over now, seeing as Medusa's gone. But If another similar big threat came along, I'd probably be O.K. with it.

I suppose it did work then xD. Then again, seeing Batwoman in Batgirl is actually part of the reason I decided to look into Kate a bit more and eventually buy Batwoman from the beginning so it worked both ways.

By the way, I've been hearing a few different opinions about Justice League Dark. You said you read it so mind helping me out? I read somewhere that the first arc in JLD wasn't very impressive but everything from issues 7 onward has been good. Would you reccommend I skip the first TPB if I go for the series or do you think the first arc is worth buying as well?

You were definitely close enough with the prediction. I wonder how they're going to go about reintroducing Alice. I'm hoping we get some more insight into what happened to Beth since she was taken.

Oh yeah, Batwoman and Wonder Woman parting makes plenty of sense. The reason they teamed up was becase of the whole Mythology aspect of Medusa. But still, Kate is known for tackling the more supernatural stuff in Gotham. I think it'd be cool to see a World's Finest sort of series starring the two someday.

Well at least something good came of it. :)

It's an interesting question. The thing is, the first arc was really about the forming of the team, but in issue 5 or 6, a character, Mindwarp is absent, and another, Enchantress is said to be sitting things out because of things that happened in the first arc. And in issue 8, another, Shade disappears into the Area of Madness . None of these characters have been heard from since.

I really liked the first arc, issues 7 and 8 were crossovers with I, Vampire, and were pretty good, but may have been better if I'd been read the I, Vampire tie-in issues. From issue 9 onwards, it has been good despite the line-up being different to what I'd like. I'd say it's worth getting the first TPB. I don't know when the second TPB will be out, and I'm not sure if it'll include issues 7 and 8, as they were in the I, Vampire: Rise Of The Vampires TPB. Issue 9 is where Jeff Lemire took over from Peter Milligan, so they might just start with his issues.

I'll be very interested to see more from Alice, and yes, I'd like to know where she was taken. I have a very loose unlikely prediction on the Bones family connection that relates to Alice if you're interested.

Yeah, I'd read that

Thanks for the reccommendation. As soon as I have a bit more spending money I'm gonna check out the first TPB. I'll let you know what I think :P.

And yeah definitely. I think it'd be cool if Alice became like the Joker to Kate's Batman. More of a recurring antagonist sort of relationship. Though that might be hard to pull off considering the connection between the two characters.

And sure, I'm always up for hearing predictions. Funny tidbit: When I read Batwoman 17, I completely looked over the fact that Bones said "our sister" and assumed he just said "your sister". I didn't realize until a week after the issue came out that it said our (I was informed my someone else and ran back to re-read). I have no idea what to think of that family connection so I'm all ears on your theory.

#37 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz: No problem. Hope you enjoy it. :)

The connection may be difficult depending on what happens in the next arc, as the family concepts that re sure to come up may change their current relationship. If she's still a villain by the end of this arc, she could be the arch-nemesis, although it could be complicated.

I had to look again when I read it, to make sure I had definitely read the word 'our'. It was quite a twist.

My theory is basically that, from what I've read about Bones' origin story, his mother whilst pregnant was experimented on by a scientist posing as a gynecologist, and was then kidnapped by the scientist when he was born. I'm wondering if instead, as there's been a reboot, after the experiments, he gets born to the Kanes with his invisible skin, and is sent away somewhere in shame.

I thought that perhaps when he grew up, Bones may have attempted to get revenge on his family by attempting to kill them, which is when Gabrielle, Beth and Kate are kidnapped. Gabrielle is killed, Beth is thought to be killed and Kate is rescued. We know that Beth was taken from the scene, probably by the attackers. Beth is driven insane and grows up to live a life of crime.

Bones has tracked her down in an attempt to continue his revenge plan against his father, perhaps using Alice as bait to get the attention of Batwoman and Jacob. Bones will have to try and convince Alice to turn against her family, as we know that she's reluctant to harm them. He may tell her that Jacob never tried to rescue her, which could lead her to want revenge on him.

At the end of the arc, if she is convinced, she will kill Jacob, and her and Bones will escape, if she is not convinced, she will kill Bones and turn herself in for crimes she's commited, hoping to be accepted by her family.

One more thing, I know from the internet that Bones' real name is Robert Todd. Because there' been the reboot, I think this will either turn out to be an alias, or he'll have never had this name, and he will reveal himself to be called Jacob Kane Jr.

I'm not sure if this theory even makes sense, but bits of it could happen. I'd be shocked if I got the whole thing right.

#38 Edited by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: Well, it seems that DC's revealed the order of guest appearances:

  • #19 - Red Robin
  • #20 - Red Hood
  • #21 - Batgirl
  • #22 - Catwoman
  • #23 - Nightwing

I couldn't care less about Batgirl or Catwoman. I wonder if that means we'll have a new Robin by September.

I agree and make the following question:

Where the hell is the Batman and Batwoman issue???

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@arnoldoaad:Ah right, O.K.

Have you got any thoughts on who you'd like to see in Batman And Robin?

well, I would like to see Robin on it

#39 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: I'm actually kinda glad there isn't a Batman/Batwoman issue.

Damian Robin, or just a Robin of some kind?

#40 Posted by SupBatz (1734 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: Complication is a given. But yes, it is pretty wholly dependent upon the direction the next arc takes the relationship. I'm willing to bet it's too late for Beth to turn around and become good (unless she dies immediately after doing so).

That's a pretty interesting theory. I can see parts of it as being right. I don't know anything about Bones except what you brought up but going from that, I think you could be pretty spot on about his keeping Alice as a means of getting revenge against Jacob.

This whole business with Bones being related to Kate and Beth is tricky business. Whether or not it works depends wholly upon how Blackman and Williams approach it. But they've yet to disappoint so I'm hopeful.

It would really help speculation if we had an age for Bones. Then it might be easier to work out what his history might be. Alas, his...condition makes guessing his age a tad difficult xD.

#41 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose said:

@arnoldoaad: I'm actually kinda glad there isn't a Batman/Batwoman issue.

why?

Is not like it hasnt happen before and it would be good for a change to actually acknowledge that Batwoman exists in DC

Damian Robin, or just a Robin of some kind?

Damian ofcourse

#42 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz: You could easily be right.

I mostly only know him from his appearances in Chase, but he's pretty mysterious in that too. He used to be a villain, so it could makes sense for him to go back to his villainous ways.

J.H. Williams co-wrote and drew Chase, which shares some things with Batwoman. Chase, Bones, Q-Ball. :P It'd be interesting if he managed to tie that series in more somehow, but as Bones wasn't in it much, I'm not sure how that would go. I don't know if you read my blog, but some things carry through J.H. Williams works: http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/v_scarlotte_rose/a-few-things-ive-noticed-in-jh-williams-art/87-89803/

But yeah, it is pretty hard to tell how old he is. I'd guess from my theory that he'd be about 6-10 years older than Kate and Beth.

#43 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad:I just don't want her getting too close with the Bat-Family. I like that she's independent of them. I'm alright with her popping up in places now and again, but a whole 'Batman And...' issue would be a bit much.

Yeah, I see a lot of people aren't too happy with the Robin situation.

#44 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

yea man! i agree!

#45 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@FatihBATMAN:Was that aimed at me for my Batwoman thoughts?

#46 Posted by SupBatz (1734 posts) - - Show Bio

@V_Scarlotte_Rose: That was a really interesting read. Excellent work finding all of those easter eggs. I never in my life would have noticed any of them. More reason to love Williams III (as if we needed another reason :p).

I had no idea that Cameron Chase actually existed outside of Batwoman - let alone that she starred in a series that long predated Batwoman. She seems like a pretty interesting character - Batwoman 17 showed a side of her I hadn't seen before and have become pretty interested in.

And the Q-Ball gang! Wow, I never would've guessed that they existed elsewhere before Batwoman.

But anyways, I definitely think Williams will be featuring Chase more in the upcoming arc. Bone obviously looks like a big player and Chase is his right-hand girl. So couple that with the fact that Williams has known he character for a very long time and I expect that we'll be getting to know her a lot better in the near future.

#47 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz:Thanks. It was quite interesting finding a lot of them. :)

She's a pretty cool character. I'd recommend the Chase TPB if you get a chance to read it. Adds some backstory to her.

I was surprised to see Q-Ball in Chase(I read Batwoman before I read Chase), he seemed like a bit of a throwaway character, so it was interesting to see him appear thirteen years beforehand.

You're probably right, I reckon he'll continue to do good things with her, he did co-create her after all. I kinda think she'll side with Batwoman rather than Bones if it comes to it.

#48 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

yes it was :)

#49 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6289 posts) - - Show Bio

@FatihBATMAN: Cool. Glad to see some agreement. :)

#50 Posted by FatihBATMAN (1389 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah man! :)

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