I've not been happy with the introduction of the red hood gang from the start, as I think it replaces the jokers likely origin story in the killing joke with something worse.

The brilliance of the killing joke was that originally he was a seemingly good hearted man, albeit a loser, manipulated into being a patsy (The red hood). It was only after a particular bad day that he snapped, and everything he repressed, all his inner darkness bubbled to the surface to create the joker.

All the time reading zero year, it never even occurred to me that the leader of the red hood gang would be the joker. I had not even considered that until the article on the site the other day. I figured Joker's red hood patsy origin was either going to be replaced with something different, or he was just one of the many red hoods now.

Instead, it appears that he may have been the leader after all. Having the joker be so...collected and capable as a villain prior to his transformation takes a lot away from the character in my opinion.

Yet, maybe that isn't the case. In a single sentence it is suggested that the red hood leader Batman had been facing in earlier issues had been replaced, by a patsy...but it was impossible to tell when that happened.

Is this not a copout? It allows Snyder to tell his story, while saying maybe how things happened in the killing joke is still accurate. It's framed as a mystery....but I just see it as a story that didn't need to be told, that's now places doubt on what happened in the killing joke for no good reason.

What do you all think?

none of the stuff that happened prior to Flashpoint is canon anymore...I don't care if they say certain things happened or not because it's only a matter of time before someone comes along and retcons the story that they told us was still canon a month before it was retconned....

so what I'm saying is that we need to stop even being surprised that someone's origin gets changed...it's happened to a ton of characters before it happened to the Joker and it will happen to a bunch more

@muyjingo: we don't even know if the killing joke origin is even real.

his quote from the killing joke is "I'm not exactly sure what it was. Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice! Ha ha ha!"

I loved it! just what I wanted to happen! Red Hood one was so cool

Yeah yeah. But I think that the origin we saw in the killing joke was probably more or less accurate.

What would be the point in showing a completely false origin, from a narrative point of view?

Batman isnt a cop so no

@muyjingo: to show the readers just how insane the joker really is, i mean you read a story telling someones origin only for that person to tell you they've been making it up as they go along. no that my friend is crazy

I think Snyder left it pretty open with the discussion between Bruce and Alfred where he said that he had no idea or any way to prove that the man that fell into the vat was actually Red Hood 1 as he could have very easily switched with someone in the time that it took Batman to get to the roof.

I feel bad for phillip during Zero Year , I mean he gets his head stuck to a magnetic floor by riddler, blackmailed into being part of the red hood gang and finally he gets shot by red hood 1,albeit saving Bruce but cmon talk about bad luck

I personally think that Batman alongside with his allies and foes is everybody's property and therefore everyone have their own version of what is or isn't their origin story.
I think that Snyder thinks the same, i think that was also the case in The Killing Joke. Batman's origin wasn't clear yet during his first appearance. Every writer gave it their twist.
In the Killing Joke the Joker said his origin is a multiple choice and Snyder references this in Batman #24.
I personally think that the Red Hood Leader last minute switching his helmet with a goon, that's why you see that the Red Hood Leader has his helmet off at some point and in the reflection you clearly see a joker-ish nose en he says "hello...there" falling in love with Batman.
But if you want to believe that the Red Hood Leader was Joker al along. That is cool as well. It is what you want to believe..
With that being said, i absolutely enjoyed #24.. I have read on Comicvine that allot of people were losing their faith in Snyder in the first issues of Zero Year, but those slow issues had to set up the events for this issue..
All hail Batman!

Am i the only one who has enhjoyed every page of what Snyder has done with Bats?......really.

@punyparker: You are not alone, bro

Τhank God...seriously.....i enjoyed the hell out of #24,and i read comics since 2003,and the first time i got goosebumps from a piece of paper was on the last page of the issue where Batman finds the hideout of the "Owls" that was in his own building....i mean...Snyder's awesome,and everyone have just to admit it....

He's doing something fenomenal to a beloved character,and still people bitch on him.......

Yeah, I didn't like the new Red Hood story. If that's not a red herring and it's really the Joker's origin story, it takes away the "one bad day" aspect of the character.

When I read CV's article about the Red Hood Gang leader I was afraid that something like this would happen.The issue wasn't bad until that moment when we realized that the leader is probably the Joker actually.It was pretty bad from Snyder to do this.

I certainly haven't enjoyed everything, and maybe not even most things, but I did enjoy the ending, with the Red Hood falling into the vat of chemicals a la Joker, yet the identity still being left wide open as to who was actually under the mask, save the fact it's the man who'll become the Joker. (Probably)

I think it's one of the best modern versions of both Batman's and the Joker's origins. I loved this issue and when the Red Hood leader fell into the vat of chemicals I'll admit, I cheered. I simply love how they intertwined by Batman and Joker's origins, having their transformations into the hero and villain we know them as today form out of each other, making them literally the embodiment of Yin and Yang, good and evil. I also think that the idea that Batman is not complete sure on who it was who actually fell into the chemicals, whether it was the same man he had been fighting these past few months or just some poor idiot who got in over his head, just adds to the mystery of the Joker's origins. Even when we and Bruce actually see it, we'll never 100% be sure on who he really was.

I have, his writing is what got me reading Batman and I've loved everything he's done.

@nathaniel_christopher: Ok,i admit,i was a little dissapointed that the "DEATH OF THE FAMILY" ended up with.....noone dying! :P

Exactly, which I would be fine with if it was replaced with something better.

Having the Joker be a competent criminal mastermind who just gets disfigured is in no way better.

I think Snyder and Capullo are kicking ass!! I opened Batman #24 and could not put it down. The art was gorgeous, the book read like a huge anniversary issue, the dialogue was fun. Gordon says: "you will not leap, fly, or hang upside down. You will surrender quietly or I will shoot you. Do you understand?" Squat cop says: "yo, it's him! It's the Bat!"

Best book this week!

Yeah I like what Snyder has been doing and this issue was amazing. I love the call back to the earlier issue when he was trying to get the gun to pull back and he got it to work with the big red hood gang member.

Another thing about this is that batman no longer created the Joker.

He didn't chase red hood the patsy through the factory where he fell into the tank....red hood was already in the factory planning to blow it up.

Joker created himself in the new 52....kind of interesting.

Really?.....who died?
I dont remember.

I second this wholeheartedly. Snyder playing around with the Joker's origin removes the true brilliance of the unpredictability of his origin. Though I did think Batman 24 was a decent issue. Better than a lot of what Snyder has written and bringing back elements of his earlier run that made it good. First time I've actually enjoyed a Snyder written Batman issue in a while.

i thought it was great it kept the mystery of the joker intact but in a new way and that is what is great about the joker we dont know his past and neither does batman and in the killing joke the joker says he doesnt even remember his origin so to say that snyder did away with killing joke is wrong because that memory could have been made up also its not cannon anymore anyways so yeah, snyder did a great job preserving the idea of mystery around the joker.