Batman #17. Nuff said.

@ImTheDamnBatman: That is an accurate statement.

Should I be surprised?

It wasn't garbage,you just got caught up in the hype of a mediocre story and are feeling let down.

@entropy_aegis said:

It wasn't garbage,you just got caught up in the hype of a mediocre story and are feeling let down.

Not true. I wasn't caught up in the hype, and I think it was crap as well :P

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

It wasn't garbage,you just got caught up in the hype of a mediocre story and are feeling let down.

Not true. I wasn't caught up in the hype, and I think it was crap as well :P

IGN just gave it a 10/10,man they must really love Snyder lol.Still I think this issue was not garbage simply cause nothing outright shitty happened(Alfred or Damian dying,Alfred being Joker etc).

@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

It wasn't garbage,you just got caught up in the hype of a mediocre story and are feeling let down.

Not true. I wasn't caught up in the hype, and I think it was crap as well :P

IGN just gave it a 10/10,man they must really love Snyder lol.Still I think this issue was not garbage simply cause nothing outright shitty happened(Alfred or Damian dying,Alfred being Joker etc).

IGN's reviews have steadily gotten more ridiculous over the past few years. Everything is either 9+ or less than 2.

Nothing too bad happened, but it was a terrible story. The writing was hackneyed and cliched, even for Snyder, it was the same thing again and again. It felt like he'd just watched Batman Beyond; Return of the Joker, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and the World's Finest episode of Superman: the Animated Series. Then the final "lesson" was the same one Bruce walked away with after RoBW. Just utter crap. So while nothing too awful happened, it doesn't change the fact this issue was a pile of generic garbage.

Why would Bruce think that the joker knowing his secret identity, won't bite him in the a$$?

@Death Certificate said:

Why would Bruce think that the joker knowing his secret identity, won't bite him in the a$$?

That was the reason for the end part. The Joker doesn't care about his secret identity.

Something that literally every Batfan worth their salt already knew, but that Snyder felt he had to force down our throats anyway.

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

It wasn't garbage,you just got caught up in the hype of a mediocre story and are feeling let down.

Not true. I wasn't caught up in the hype, and I think it was crap as well :P

IGN just gave it a 10/10,man they must really love Snyder lol.Still I think this issue was not garbage simply cause nothing outright shitty happened(Alfred or Damian dying,Alfred being Joker etc).

IGN's reviews have steadily gotten more ridiculous over the past few years. Everything is either 9+ or less than 2.

Nothing too bad happened, but it was a terrible story. The writing was hackneyed and cliched, even for Snyder, it was the same thing again and again. It felt like he'd just watched Batman Beyond; Return of the Joker, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and the World's Finest episode of Superman: the Animated Series. Then the final "lesson" was the same one Bruce walked away with after RoBW. Just utter crap. So while nothing too awful happened, it doesn't change the fact this issue was a pile of generic garbage.

Definitely,and I fail to understand how it's Death of the Family.

@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

It wasn't garbage,you just got caught up in the hype of a mediocre story and are feeling let down.

Not true. I wasn't caught up in the hype, and I think it was crap as well :P

IGN just gave it a 10/10,man they must really love Snyder lol.Still I think this issue was not garbage simply cause nothing outright shitty happened(Alfred or Damian dying,Alfred being Joker etc).

IGN's reviews have steadily gotten more ridiculous over the past few years. Everything is either 9+ or less than 2.

Nothing too bad happened, but it was a terrible story. The writing was hackneyed and cliched, even for Snyder, it was the same thing again and again. It felt like he'd just watched Batman Beyond; Return of the Joker, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and the World's Finest episode of Superman: the Animated Series. Then the final "lesson" was the same one Bruce walked away with after RoBW. Just utter crap. So while nothing too awful happened, it doesn't change the fact this issue was a pile of generic garbage.

Definitely,and I fail to understand how it's Death of the Family.

Because they all almost died. Then didn't.

And had their faces cut off. But didn't.

And then decided not to talk to Bruce.

DRAMA!

@FadeToBlackBolt:

@Death Certificate said:

@FadeToBlackBolt:

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

I thought the whole batman doesn't kill joker was more forced. Almost felt like a dragged out family guy joke.

Agreed.

It got to a point where it just became hilarious. And, I hate to be the one who goes there, everything said could have been used to subtextually say they're incredibly attracted to one another and just want to have sex.

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

It wasn't garbage,you just got caught up in the hype of a mediocre story and are feeling let down.

Not true. I wasn't caught up in the hype, and I think it was crap as well :P

IGN just gave it a 10/10,man they must really love Snyder lol.Still I think this issue was not garbage simply cause nothing outright shitty happened(Alfred or Damian dying,Alfred being Joker etc).

IGN's reviews have steadily gotten more ridiculous over the past few years. Everything is either 9+ or less than 2.

Nothing too bad happened, but it was a terrible story. The writing was hackneyed and cliched, even for Snyder, it was the same thing again and again. It felt like he'd just watched Batman Beyond; Return of the Joker, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and the World's Finest episode of Superman: the Animated Series. Then the final "lesson" was the same one Bruce walked away with after RoBW. Just utter crap. So while nothing too awful happened, it doesn't change the fact this issue was a pile of generic garbage.

Definitely,and I fail to understand how it's Death of the Family.

Because they all almost died. Then didn't.

And had their faces cut off. But didn't.

And then decided not to talk to Bruce.

DRAMA!

HAHAHA@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Death Certificate said:

@FadeToBlackBolt:

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

I thought the whole batman doesn't kill joker was more forced. Almost felt like a dragged out family guy joke.

Agreed.

It got to a point where it just became hilarious. And, I hate to be the one who goes there, everything said could have been used to subtextually say they're incredibly attracted to one another and just want to have sex.

I got that impression back in Batman#15,Snyder could have been subtle about it but it was just blatant and in your face.

@FadeToBlackBolt:

@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Death Certificate said:

@FadeToBlackBolt:

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

I thought the whole batman doesn't kill joker was more forced. Almost felt like a dragged out family guy joke.

Agreed.

It got to a point where it just became hilarious. And, I hate to be the one who goes there, everything said could have been used to subtextually say they're incredibly attracted to one another and just want to have sex.

I got that impression back in Batman#15,Snyder could have been subtle about it but it was just blatant and in your face.

It was something Miller in Returns, and Morrison in Arkham Asylum, introduced. Joker referred to Bats as "Darling" because of their symbiotic relationship, whereas in Arkham, Joker pinched Batman's backside and a few other things like that, because he knew it would make Batman uncomfortable and angry.

Snyder just decided to rip that off and shove it up its own a**. Like he's done with everything in his run.

I just realized that in Batman 17 Joker did perform the most atrocious crime imaginable. That poor little critter. I mean can you imagine what he would have done to Bat-Cow?

So by the way what happened to Two-Face and Penguin?

@entropy_aegis: I think I'll agree with you. It wasn't that bad. I still have faith in Snyder. He seems to have a tiny problem with anticlimacting endings in some of his stories.

The story was called "Death OF the Family".

In the end, the group's faith and trust in Bruce was shaken, once again making him a more isolated person...exactly what the Joker wanted, to remove Batman's support mechanism.

Every story isn't about shattering the earth, some are personal.

@entropy_aegis said:

So by the way what happened to Two-Face and Penguin?

NOTHING!!!!!!!

ARHGHHGHGHGHGHHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHG

So many setups that could have been amazing but failed.

Arkam city was over before it began. The "dinner" was complete crap. What's under the platter was literally a waste of 5 pages.

AAAA THE DISAPPOINTMENT!!!!!!!!

@Joelislegend said:

@entropy_aegis said:

So by the way what happened to Two-Face and Penguin?

NOTHING!!!!!!!

That sum ups the whole story

Dear Scott Snyder,

Your ending to Court of the Owls was God-awful.

Your ending to Death of the Family was mind blowing stupid bullshit.

Please please please, can you ruin the Riddler or Robin for us too?

Maybe put Harper Row in a batsuit and f*** up the Batman mythos for a few years after you leave.

Oh and when you're finished, f*** up Superman too okay?

@Joelislegend: laughing and crying because it's true.

@Crash_Recovery said:

The story was called "Death OF the Family".

In the end, the group's faith and trust in Bruce was shaken, once again making him a more isolated person...exactly what the Joker wanted, to remove Batman's support mechanism.

Every story isn't about shattering the earth, some are personal.

Why exactly was their trust shaken again? the book was empty and Bruce proved that Joker never cared for his secret in the first place.Making Bruce more isolated will not accomplish anything in the long run,it's one of those things that writers feed moronic fans whose idea of Batman is completely different from what the character really is.

And this is where people will realize that Snyder is just a man!Everyone was in a hurry to give him "legendary" status.

This is what happens when you fall in the hype.

Anyway i liked the ending! It was just what we have been promished.......and we had been promished a internal dispute.

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Batman #17. Nuff said.

I'm just gonna go ahead and assume this means all of your "I KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN I'M RIGHT PROVE ME WRONG" posts were indeed wrong, eh? ;)

G-Man will give it 5 stars though, CV wont let IGN out do them.

I liked this issue. I've liked Snyder's run. I thought the ending was good.

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Batman #17. Nuff said.

Weren't you were the person claiming that Alfred was the Joker.

i think of joker as an ex girlfriend who is crazy and wants to know if he loves her more or if he loves his new family

@k4tzm4n said:

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Batman #17. Nuff said.

I'm just gonna go ahead and assume this means all of your "I KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN I'M RIGHT PROVE ME WRONG" posts were indeed wrong, eh? ;)

That would indeed be an accurate supposition.

I just read it.

I need someone to explain to me exactly how it was bad.

Because I liked it.

Quick, internet. Set me straight. Explain the hate.

@InnerVenom123 said:

I just read it.

I need someone to explain to me exactly how it was bad.

Because I liked it.

Quick, internet. Set me straight. Explain the hate.

This

@The_Lunact_And_Manic said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

I just read it.

I need someone to explain to me exactly how it was bad.

Because I liked it.

Quick, internet. Set me straight. Explain the hate.

This

I loved it myself but I guess most of the hate comes from those riding the hype train at full speed or had high expectations. Me personally I loved the pacing and the dialogue, wasn't a fan of the story in general mainly because of how the scuffle with Joker ended but I did find the pacing of this issue to be great, the twist in the dinner tray being but a joke was my favorite part. After Bruce unwrapped Damian from his bandages I was like "wait a minute" but then I was like "wait a minute" (see Community Season 4 October 19th promo for the reference). I actually loved that twist for the twist mind you.

I think Snyder is really good at setting up stories, but the climax just sputters out like Night of the Owls, Rotworld to an extent, this. But I also think this is a problem in the industry as a whole. Everyone knows how to set up a great story, but few can execute a story the whole way through.

@Death Certificate said:

Why would Bruce think that the joker knowing his secret identity, won't bite him in the a$$?

That was so unbelievably incompetent. So unbelievably incompetent its made me drop the main Batman run. Sticking with Batman Inc as well as Batman and Robin from now on.

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Batman #17. Nuff said.

You know they are gonna get you,lol! The Bat Fanboys are coming! lol !

@JohnnyGat said:

I just realized that in Batman 17 Joker did perform the most atrocious crime imaginable. That poor little critter. I mean can you imagine what he would have done to Bat-Cow?

did he make Bat-Hamburgers? cuz id be ok with that as long as he shared.

@TheAcidSkull said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

I just read it.

I need someone to explain to me exactly how it was bad.

Because I liked it.

Quick, internet. Set me straight. Explain the hate.

though i respect your opinion, and if you like it then thats good for you,

but personally i felt it was like gory torture p*rn, and there was no real sacrifice, also there was two much drama

but thats just my opinion.

There was no "torture", per se, so please don't use the phrase "torture porn"... that's a lil' pet peeve of mine, how overused that term's become...

Anyway I felt that the emotional sacrifice was the drama. The family losing faith in Bruce and what-not.

I recognize a problem. The ending was too "safe" for everyone. We spent months waiting for someone to die, and then nothing. Only internal loss.

So I guess that's something bad about it.

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@JohnnyGat said:

I just realized that in Batman 17 Joker did perform the most atrocious crime imaginable. That poor little critter. I mean can you imagine what he would have done to Bat-Cow?

did he make Bat-Hamburgers? cuz id be ok with that as long as he shared.

IIRC in one of the Batman and Robin tie ins there was a mention of missing Lions. That poor little lion cub was used as a bomb man. It was a baby Lion. Pure evil I tell you.

@Cap10nate said:

I think Snyder is really good at setting up stories, but the climax just sputters out like Night of the Owls, Rotworld to an extent, this. But I also think this is a problem in the industry as a whole. Everyone knows how to set up a great story, but few can execute a story the whole way through.

So I haven't read this issue cause I am waiting to legally buy it, however I do want to say that good story telling is very important. I am able to guess that no one dies and I am glad for that, because in my mind that is a cheap gimmick.

And I agree with you that it's a problem in most comic stories that the main setup is AWESOME, but the ending is meh, but that is also cause when your hands are tied its hard to make solid endings with such dramatic stakes. My two key examples I want to point to are the two graphic novels Justice, and JLA: Earth 2. Justice is probably one of my all time favorite concepts, but the ending was weak. In fact I don't even remember how it ends anymore, but the set up and the actual conflict of the story was amazing. Same with Morrison's Earth 2, the ending was just so convenient and I didn't feel much weight to it.

Don't get me wrong there are some stories out there that are amazing from start to finish and leave you at awe the whole time (prime example am thinking of is Killing Joke). You have some great stories from start to finish with some weird parts to it like Tower of Babel. And sadly more often than not there are a lot of stories that are "iconic" that just plain suck like Death in the Family (Joker...in Ethiopia...), No Man's Land (I mean to this day I still don't get why Gotham was declared as No Man's Land, Dark Knight Rises had a much more compelling reason), and Batman RIP (the story was not coherent to most people, and that makes for bad story telling in my opinion).

I do think people need to remove themselves from hype and enjoy the story for what it is because I am sure it will go down as being one of the most iconic Joker stories, and it probably changes the status quo just not in the violent way people seem to be hoping.

I think it is disrespectful to state this.

I haven't read this issue because I want to buy my comics but I think you set the bar to high and the ending was pretty solid.

Like I said this is speculation.

I actually liked the issue. Of course it wasn't fantastic or great bur it wasn't that bad. The title said death of the family not particularly one of them as we all tought it was it was the breaking the ties between them.So in the end all of them lives but the family dies.with said that I would love to see some of them (not damian or jason of course) dieor at least hurt big time

@Xorion said:

I actually liked the issue. Of course it wasn't fantastic or great bur it wasn't that bad. The title said death of the family not particularly one of them as we all tought it was it was the breaking the ties between them.So in the end all of them lives but the family dies.with said that I would love to see some of them (not damian or jason of course) dieor at least hurt big time

I think it was all the asspulls this issue handed out that stopped me from enjoying it. My balls were blue.

@Humanoid said:

@Xorion said:

I actually liked the issue. Of course it wasn't fantastic or great bur it wasn't that bad. The title said death of the family not particularly one of them as we all tought it was it was the breaking the ties between them.So in the end all of them lives but the family dies.with said that I would love to see some of them (not damian or jason of course) dieor at least hurt big time

I think it was all the asspulls this issue handed out that stopped me from enjoying it. My balls were blue.

isn't that a bloody good explanation, eh?

@Humanoid said:

@Xorion said:

I actually liked the issue. Of course it wasn't fantastic or great bur it wasn't that bad. The title said death of the family not particularly one of them as we all tought it was it was the breaking the ties between them.So in the end all of them lives but the family dies.with said that I would love to see some of them (not damian or jason of course) dieor at least hurt big time

I think it was all the asspulls this issue handed out that stopped me from enjoying it. My balls were blue.

Were you on the /co/ thread where it was leaked? I swear I saw someone there use that exact same picture (the one in your av.)

I can deal with some anti climax, I was a Marvel fan for nearly 3 decades so the important thing here for me is that Alfred is not Joker so I don't have to abandon comics