Too many villains know Batman's identity.

Posted by batman_is_god (1185 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra' al Ghul, Hush, and Red hood, ok. Joker, Riddler, Man-Bat, Hugo Strange, etc., thats way too much. 
 
List how many villains you can think of that know his identity, and whether you think there are too many of them.

#1 Posted by Rowen545 (378 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr. Hurt and the Black Hand... sounds like a band name

#2 Posted by batman_is_god (1185 posts) - - Show Bio
@rowen545:
It's "black glove" because a Green Lantern villain is already using the name black hand, but yeah it does sound like a band.
#3 Posted by Mr.Q (1049 posts) - - Show Bio
Joker knows? what did I miss? and Catwoman now knows I think. 
 
@rowen545 said:
" Dr. Hurt and the Black Hand... sounds like a band name "
I think they once opened for Me First and the Give Mes.
#4 Posted by Metatron_Da_Don (1037 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker knows?

#5 Posted by bignamebutton (11 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that villains knowing an identity is an awesome thing, just my opinion..

#6 Posted by Dracade102 (8167 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker, Hugo Strange, Hush, Catwoman, The Riddler, Doctor Hurt, Ra's Al Ghul and Red Hood all know who Bruce Is... That's not a good thing.
#7 Posted by batman_is_god (1185 posts) - - Show Bio
@bignamebutton:
Not when it is the majority of them. Venom knowing is cool. Grren Goblin knowing, ok. Electro and Doc Ock and Lizard and Mysterio and Shocker and Scorpion? Too much.
#8 Posted by ShirEPanjshir (583 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that there are becoming too many of them that know who Batman really is. Than again, you'll soon have two Batmen running around, so it kind of becomes a bit useless to know. Doesn't it?
I mean, sure they could try to kill Bruce Wayne during the daytime for revenge or what else. But there is Dick Grayson too now. If they want to take out Batman completely they 'd have to target both.
And since they'll have enough trouble taking down Bruce, taking down both will be pretty hard. And if they 'd succeed, there'll probably be a new Batman, like Tim Drake or even Damien in a few years.
 
But yes. I too find that there are too many villains who know who (the original) batman is. I don't like it. It kind of takes away the mistery and fear around Batman.

#9 Posted by brc2000 (1680 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought Riddler lost his memory about Batman's identity, unless he learned it again.

#10 Posted by AMS (1387 posts) - - Show Bio

It wouldn't be hard for genius level intellects to put 2+2 together after the recent announcement.

#11 Posted by batman_is_god (1185 posts) - - Show Bio
@AMS:
Seriouly. Worse plot twist ever.
#12 Posted by batman_is_god (1185 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShirEPanjshir:
Other people wearing his costume already ruins the mystery though.
#13 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought Riddler had amnesia or something and he forgot? 
 
 Joker doesn't care WHO Batman is. He just wants to piss him off.  
Catwoman wouldn't say anything. At least I don't think she would. 
 
The rest could pose a problem, but Hush and Jason Todd have something personal against Batman. I don't think they'd out him. 

#14 Edited by ShirEPanjshir (583 posts) - - Show Bio
@batman_is_god: I don't know. I actually like Dick as Batman. I don't mind the thought of having two Batman, as long as they don't appear together. Might cloud the Batman even more in mystery for his foes. Because he becomes less predictable etc.
 
But I totally get people that don't like this idea. I myself only 'recently' started reading Batman ( read solely Marvel stuff before ). So I don't get bothered that much by all of this. But I can see that someone who's been reading Batman for a while can say that Batman is Bruce Wayne. That it is the "darkness" inside of him.
#15 Posted by batman_is_god (1185 posts) - - Show Bio
@ShirEPanjshir:
Your second paragraph is the point. It totally contradicts the character. Besides, if you had been reading, you would know Morrison just threw all the mystery out the window. But it's Grant Morrison and apparently he can do no wrong. 
 
Also, I am SO TIRED of heroes being replaced. It's like the writers are all out of ideas.
#16 Posted by entropy_aegis (13612 posts) - - Show Bio

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/12/21/lorendiacs-lists-who-knows-batman-is-bruce-wayne/

There are some people missing i think but it's a good list.

Hugo,Riddler and Man-bat are non factors.Hugo has been tricked,his madness and obsession with bat's made it easy,Riddler forgot(HAHAHA) and Man-bat i believe only knows under the Man-bat persona.But it does'nt matter because both he and his wife are allies(Francine was even a member of Batman's Outisders),Joker does'nt care,Ra's and Bane respect him,Hush and Jason wan't to use it for their own benefit,Catwoman loves him etc.

#17 Posted by luckydomino1 (491 posts) - - Show Bio

if they all know then why arent they revealing this fact to the public why arent they using it against him. im confused

#18 Posted by Dernman (13991 posts) - - Show Bio

It's been confirmed Catwoman no longer knows. I also believe others have forgotten also in the new 52

#19 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (5680 posts) - - Show Bio

It's kind of dangerous that so many villains know who Batman really is because what happens if all of them ganged up on Bruce Wayne one night when Bruce is not prepared to take down so many villains at one time? This could be the end for Batman, but of course, someone will always replace him.

#20 Posted by entropy_aegis (13612 posts) - - Show Bio

@luckydomino1 said:

if they all know then why arent they revealing this fact to the public why arent they using it against him. im confused

@Rabbitearsblog said:

It's kind of dangerous that so many villains know who Batman really is because what happens if all of them ganged up on Bruce Wayne one night when Bruce is not prepared to take down so many villains at one time? This could be the end for Batman, but of course, someone will always replace him.

I already adressed this,Hugo and Riddler NO LONGER know,Hush and Jason are too arrogant to tell,Bane and Ra's respect him,Catwoman and Talia are love interests(in DCNU Selina no longer knows),Dr Hurt and the vast majority of his organization are dead,Joker does'nt care,Deathstroke won't use it to his advantage unless someone pays him,there are other LOA members who are ALL under Ra's al Ghul's control.Shiva,David Cain etc won't tell for their own reasons,i think it's because Batman was their student and they don't really see him as an enemy who needs to be destroyed.

#21 Posted by batkevin74 (9734 posts) - - Show Bio

Now due to the "new 52" nobody does!

And working out Batman's id can't be that hard since a 10yr old kid worked it out from watching tv! Actually anyone who knew Wally West could possibly work it out. Wally is friends with Dick Grayson. Dick was dating a 7ft golden alien. Dick is the adopted son/ward of Bruce Wayne. Batman & Robin are from Gotham. Suddenley Robin is with the Titans, Batman is without Robin and the pair arn't protecting Gotham. It's almost six degrees of Wally West and you can work out who anyone is :)

#22 Posted by BlackArmor (6121 posts) - - Show Bio

@batkevin74 said:

And working out Batman's id can't be that hard since a 10yr old kid worked it out from watching tv!

-___- your simplification of the matter has so much pure logic i feel ashamed for everyone who has ever failed to learn who batman is

#23 Edited by Croaker (296 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra's respects Bruce too much to do anything about that information. And maybe he still clings on to the hope of swaying him to his extreme ideology (basically they have the same goal).

Hush is full of misplaced pride. He wants to destroy Bruce Wayne. I don't think he's an actual supervillain or a career criminal who has a goal that Batman stands in the way of.

Red Hood / Jason = same thing as Ra's.

Joker is not going to use that information to bring Batman down. He wouldn't intentionally destroy the one constant motivation in his life. In fact, he has many times shown efforts to keep his identity a secret.

Didn't Riddler forget after his coma?

I don't know..as long as the reasons for keeping the secret are kept plausible, the number of people isn't what compromises the stories.

#24 Posted by dannymalt (57 posts) - - Show Bio

As far as I know, Joker has never learned Batman's identity. Can someone please provide information on when this happened, so I can look this up and read said issue.

#25 Posted by The Stegman (20734 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm surprised MORE people don't know, it's not that hard to figure his identity out if you put two and two together

#26 Posted by RedOwl_1 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

Well just see the good point on it :) like (after two hours of hard thinking) oh yeah like:

Ra' al Ghul: VERY VERY Dangerous but he respects Batman :o *uff*

Red hood: Please I know he hates Bruce but not that much or does he?

Joker: Man he's mad he doesn't care and in the case he does, anybody would believe he, the question is do you believe the joker if he told you that... example: Batman is Bruno Mars (The stupidest thing ever, don't offence u Mars)

Riddler: I have heard that he forget it (what a luck thing)

Man-Bat: He's good now, isn't he? Yes it is :D

Hugo Strange: Same that the Joker (anybody believes he)

Hush, Dr. Hurt: Maybe, don't know it exactly

Black Hand: His name is Black MASK that I know

See it in that point and the situation isn't really bad ;)

#27 Posted by BlackArmor (6121 posts) - - Show Bio

I want Riddler to still know that would be awesome
#28 Edited by Glaucus (32 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't even know why Selina Kyle/Catwoman is on the list.

The way I see it, Catwoman always had a moral center, and she slowly (not rapidly) evolved in the comics.

Now Catwoman is back to being a bit of the anti-heroine again compared when she was more of a heroine in the later 2000's.

The new Catwoman series is based on a younger Selina Kyle and Catwoman in her unrepentant thief/criminal stage and she is still depicted as being attracted to both Batman and Bruce Wayne.

I just believe that Selina is a person who sees shades of gray and is ambiguous.

This is what makes her highly complex which can lead to her easily being misunderstood.

Deep down, she's a good person but makes mistakes. She definitely has her flaws just like everybody else does. Definitely Batman saw that she was a good person. He even found her confusing. He even asked her how she can disregard societal laws but yet casually risk her life to save others. This was in the issue where Joker revealed why he made Catwoman a killing magnet which including him saying that Batman and Catwoman are made for each other and that there is true love between them. Catwoman's gray approach to life challenged Batman's black and white perception of the world. She wasn't evil nor was she insane. This led to him not even really attempting hard to arrest her and turn her over to the police. He even helped Selina stay hidden after she was believed to be dead. He didn't want her to be killed nor arrested. Selina even asked him why did he help her, and he responded that she is a good person deep down inside and wanted her to see that. Of course, there was a strong connection between them. There was a strong mutual attraction between them that they tried to fight. Catwoman covered it up through her flirting and teasing. Batman covered it up through his discipline and reserve and his sense of duty. It was only until Catwoman reformed that Batman allowed himself to get close to Catwoman.

Selina is a very strong,independent woman, and she doesn't want to be dependent on anybody. She's been dependent on people before, and it led to some bad things. She definitely doesn't want to be controlled by others in any way. She definitely doesn't want to answer to any man. I actually see her as feminist type that has a disregard for the patriarchy because she doesn't trust it. There is corruption among the police and the wealthy.

The period of Selina Kyle/Catwoman reformed and not a villain

Detective Comics #479 (September-October 1978): "If a Man Be Made of Clay...!"

Batman #308 (February 1979): "There'll be a Cold Time in the Old Town Tonight"

Batman #310 (April 1979): "The Ghost Who Haunted Batman"

Batman #313 (July 1979): "Two for the Money!"

Batman #314 (August 1979): "Once Beaten, Twice Sly!"

Batman #315 (September 1979): "Danger on the Wing"

Batman #317 (November 1979): "The 1,001 Clue Caper" or, "Why Did the Riddler Cross the Road?"

Batman #318 (December 1979): "My City Burns at Both Ends--It Will Not Last the Night"

Batman #319 (January 1980): "Never Give Up the Ghost"

Detective Comics #488 (February-March 1980): "The Spook's Death Sentence for Batman"

Batman #321 (March 1980): "Dreadful Birthday, Dear Joker"

Batman #322 (April 1980): "Chaos--Coming and Going!"

Batman #323 (May 1980): "Shadow of the Cat"

Batman #324 (June 1980): "The Cat Who Would Be King"

Batman #326 (August 1980): "This Way Lies Madness"

Batman #332 (February 1981): "Fallout!"

Batman #332/2 (February 1981): "Cat's Paw"

Batman #333/2 (March 1981): "Shanghaied!"

Batman #334 (April 1981): "Infinity Island!"

Batman #335 (May 1981): "Ashes to Ashes"

Brave and the Bold #176 (July 1981): "The Delta Connection"

Detective Comics #506 (September 1981): "Who Dies for the Manikin?"

Detective Comics #508 (November 1981): "Secret of the Sphinx Sinister"

Detective Comics #509 (December 1981): "Nine Lives Has the Cat"

Batman #345/2 (March 1982): "Terror Train"

Batman #346/2 (April 1982): "In the Land of the Dead"

Batman #348/2 (June 1982): "The Man, the Bullet, the Cat, Part 1"

Batman #349/2 (July 1982): "The Man, the Bullet, the Cat, Part 2"

Batman #350/2 (August 1982): "Those Lips, Those Eyes"

Batman #351/2 (September 1982): "Gentlemen Defer Blondes"

Detective Comics #520/2 (November 1982): "The Cat and the Conover Caper"

Batman #354 (December 1982): "Showdown"

Detective Comics #521 (December 1982): "Cat Tale"

Batman #355 (January 1983): "Never Scratch A Cat"

Detective Comics #526 (May 1983): "All My Enemies Against Me"

Detective Comics #548 (March 1985): "Beasts A-Prowl"

Batman #382 (April 1985): "The Vengeance Spiral"

Batman #389 (November 1985): "Red Skies"

Detective Comics #556 (November 1985): "The Bleeding Night"

Batman #390 (December 1985): "Women Dark and Dangerous"

Detective Comics #557 (December 1985): "Still Beating"

Batman #391 (January 1986): "Death Comes As the End"

Detective Comics #558 (January 1986): "Strange Loves"

Crisis on Infinite Earths #5 (August 1985): "Worlds in Limbo"

Batman #392 (February 1986): "A Town on the Night"

Detective Comics #559 (February 1986): "It Takes Two Wings to Fly"

Detective Comics #560 (March 1986): "The Batman Nobody Knows"

Batman #395 (May 1986): "Fury of the Film Freak"

Detective Comics #562 (May 1986): "Reeling"

Batman #396 (June 1986): "Box-Office Smash"

Detective Comics #563 (June 1986): "Free Faces"

Batman #397 (July 1986): "Binary Brains"

Detective Comics #564 (July 1986): "Double Crosses"

Batman #398 (August 1986): "About Faces"

Detective Comics #565 (August 1986): "The Love Killing"

Batman #399 (September 1986): "Strike Two"

Batman #400 (October 1986): "Resurrection Night!"

Detective Comics #569 (December 1986): "Catch As Catscan"

Detective Comics #570 (January 1987): "The Last Laugh"

From February 1979 through January 1987, Catwoman was in a reformed stage.

By the end of Detective Comics #570, Catwoman was converted back to being a villian with a mind machine by the Joker.

It was just month after that, there was the big retcon with new origins of Batman and Catwoman with the Batman: Year 1 series

Batman #404 (February 1987): "Batman: Year One, Ch. 1: Who Am I, How I Come To Be"

Batman #332/2 (February 1981): "Cat's Paw"

Batman #333/2 (March 1981): "Shanghaied!"

Batman #345/2 (March 1982): "Terror Train"

Batman #346/2 (April 1982): "In the Land of the Dead"

Batman #348/2 (June 1982): "The Man, the Bullet, the Cat, Part 1"

Batman #349/2 (July 1982): "The Man, the Bullet, the Cat, Part 2"

Batman #350/2 (August 1982): "Those Lips, Those Eyes"

Batman #351/2 (September 1982): "Gentlemen Defer Blondes"

Detective Comics #520/2 (November 1982): "The Cat and the Conover Caper"

There were separate stories of Catwoman after Batman's regular stories. They focused on the heroic aspect of her.

Batman #332 (February 1981): "Fallout!"

Batman #332/2 (February 1981): "Cat's Paw"

Batman #333/2 (March 1981): "Shanghaied!"

Catwoman and Robin teamed up

Robin says:

Frankly, I didn't know who else I could turn to who could help me the same way you can.

You know the Batman. You understand him. And maybe I don't. It's just...Well, I think Talia is playing him for a fool.

Why can't he see through her?

You know, I tried warning him, but he wouldn't listen to me.

He still thinks of me as a kid. You know, the boy wonder, his teenage sidekick. nothing more

Maybe I'm not as good as he is.

But I'm not half as bad as he thinks I am. I need your help.

Then it shows that he was talking to Selina.

Dick Grayson/Robin actually trusted Selina Kyle/Catwoman and not Talia.

They teamed up.

The Batman Issue part of #332 ended with Catwoman and Robin seeing Batman and Talia kissing. Catwoman sadly walked away which led to Robin scatching his head out of confusion.

The Catwoman part of Batman issue #332 ends with the following

Catwoman says:

Everything went up in flames!

Kruggerand couldn't control the energy output!

First Falstaff dead, now him...

And I still don't understand why either of them was trying to create monsters!

just as I'm not certain who they were actually working for.

I was so certain it was Talia. so certain she was playing with the Batman...leading him into some dangerous trap..

but now, I just don't know. I'm wondering if seeing Batman with Talia made me jealous in some stupid manner.

Blast! Am I really that petty? I wish I knew...I just wish I knew.

Then it shows Talia watching Catwoman walking away.

It wasn't just Catwoman that thought Talia was playing with Batman. Robin thought so too. Therefore, she really wasn't being petty.

I like how the comic showed Catwoman doubting herself because it showed her that she was very human. She wasn't so cocky that she felt like she knew everything. She understood that she had flaws that might interfere with her judgment.

Batman #333/2 (March 1981): "Shanghaied!"

Robin and Catwoman talking while flying in the Batplane.

Robin says:

Selina, I didn't ask you before...but

you walked out when you saw Talia with Batman.

Catwoman looking away from Robin

Catwoman says:

And you want to know why.

Perhaps I felt...hurt.

Jealous...?

I don't know.

Sometimes I think I'm better off not knowing.

It gives the impression that Catwoman is jealous of seeing Talia with Batman because she knows that Talia is with Bruce. It's like she knows that Batman and Bruce are one and the same.

I really liked Catwoman and Robin working together. They seemed to like and respect each other.

Detective Comics #521 (December 1982): "Cat Tale"

Batman #355 (January 1983): "Never Scratch A Cat"

After Selina left Bruce and Gotham, she came back. She realized that she needed him and wanted to be with him.

She had major jealousy issues with Vicki Vale. She was so eaten up inside that she had nightmares of being like a monster. She told Vicki to stay away from Bruce. She ran Bruce and Vicki off the road. Catwoman and Batman had a fight, and Catwoman wanted to kill him. She had the upper hand, but she couldn't allow herself to kill him. For the first time, she called Batman "Bruce."

Bruce finally understood how they hurt each other (She hurt him by leaving Gotham, and he hurt her by taking up with Vicki Vale). It ended with them hugging each other.

Detective Comics #521 (December 1982): "Cat Tale"

Selina has a nightmare of being a monstrous Catwoman that attacks Vicki Vale

Selina says:

Every night...the same dream...horrible dream...!

And each night, it's worse than the night before!

Stalking that woman --- attacking her.

---smelling her blood on my hands.

God...God...

I'm going mad.

I know I'm going mad.

I should never have come back to Gotham.

Then I wouldn't have known that Bruce had found someone else...

Vicki Vale..someone else to love.

But I have come back

And when I see her with him, holding him ---

---It sets a fury raging within me, a fury I don't think I can control!

I gave up a life of crime as the Catwoman out of love for Bruce...

...but what life do I have without him?

These past few months apart, I've learned how much I need him...

...and I won't give up without a fight.

I don't know why the writers made Selina to be a crazy jealous woman in those 2 issues. I guess that they wanted to play off her jealous nature like they showed her being jealous of Talia. I guess the writers wanted to show that Selina still had dark side that needed to be kept in check. At least in the end, Selina showed that she was better than that.

Later after some comic book issues, the writers had Bruce Wayne/Batman realizing that he never stopped loving Selina Kyle/Catwoman.

It really isn't out of character for Selina Kyle/Catwoman to reform and become good. She's done it in multiple age periods - the Golden Age, the Silver Age, and the Modern Age (Bronze Age?). I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up doing it in the DC 52 universe but only after a decade or 2. Before the DC 52 started, Bruce even considered worthy of her joining his crusade against crime. Seeing that she wasn't the type to kill and was attracted to Batman hinted at the possiblity that she would fall in love with Bruce Wayne/Batman, reform and become a crime fighter.

In regards to comic book history, I believe that Selina Kyle/Catwoman hasn't been an actual villain since October 1978 if you don't count the Joker converting her back to having a villain mindset with the mind machine. That was just a little bit of Detective Comics #570 (January 1987): "The Last Laugh"

Selina Kyle/Catwoman would keep Bruce Wayne being Batman a secret because of her love for him.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.