Thoughts on Val Kilmer's Batman?

#1 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

I was watching Batman Forever last night and, I have to admit, out of every movie-Batman (not including Kevin Conroy's voice), he most fits what I imagine Batman to sound like. No disrespect to Christian Bale, he is an amazing actor, but he should have stuck with the Batman Begins voice (still a growl, but not as over-the-top as The Dark Knight). There is this brilliant scene in Batman Forever after the Bat-cave is destroyed and Alfred and Bruce are talking about the sonar-modified suit. Bruce talks about it, then puts it on, after which he asks Alfred how he should travel. His voice has changed, not too much, but it is deeper, darker and more focused. That is what I imagine Batman to sound like. Not to mention, out of all the Batmen, he looks the most natural underneath the cowl. 
 
Thoughts?

#2 Posted by moviegeek17 (1474 posts) - - Show Bio

I always loved val kilmer as bruce wayne and batman. I just wish that he got the movie he deserved and not the one he was stuck with.

#3 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly don't remember Val Kilmer's Batman lol. The only things I remember from that movie were the Bat-butt, Robin putting away laundry, and Jim Carey's Ridder (<3).

I'll have to try to sit thru another watch one of these days.

#4 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

I always thought Val Kilmer played a solid Bruce/Batman. Had he worked with a decent director and a more solid script, I actually think he could have surpassed Keaton.  
 
Just with regards to Bale's voice. He was talking a lot more (to people who were unaware of his identity) in Dark Knight than in Begins. Bruce doesn't want people to know it's him, disguising your voice as an almost inaudible growl makes more sense than just deepening it slightly. Someone who knew Bruce need only listen to Kilmer/Clooney/Keaton's Batman for a few moments to realise it was him. 

#5 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23245 posts) - - Show Bio

Kilmer was the better Bruce Wayne, Keaton was the better Batman, and George Clooney was better in other movies, just not one under a Batman title.

#6 Posted by danhimself (22276 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly don't think there was any of the actors playing Batman were bad choices but that they had bad directors and bad writers....Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney are all terrific actors and they would have made great Batmen but they didn't have directors and writers who understood the character

#7 Posted by SpiritGoat (25 posts) - - Show Bio

I defend that movie at any time I can get, I really liked the psychiatric scenes with Nicole Kidman plus Robin was alright

#8 Posted by ntb1124 (949 posts) - - Show Bio

Kilmer was pretty good, but I must use this post to point out that I still can not believe that George Clooney at any point ever played Batman, so strange to think of after the last several roles I have seen him in.

#9 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

I honestly don't think there was any of the actors playing Batman were bad choices but that they had bad directors and bad writers....Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney are all terrific actors and they would have made great Batmen but they didn't have directors and writers who understood the character

I agree. Burton's never read a damn comic book in his life and Schumocker must have been high. If George Clooney were in his prime, I think he'd be an excellent Bruce Wayne/Batman.

#10 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
I always thought Val Kilmer played a solid Bruce/Batman. Had he worked with a decent director and a more solid script, I actually think he could have surpassed Keaton.   Just with regards to Bale's voice. He was talking a lot more (to people who were unaware of his identity) in Dark Knight than in Begins. Bruce doesn't want people to know it's him, disguising your voice as an almost inaudible growl makes more sense than just deepening it slightly. Someone who knew Bruce need only listen to Kilmer/Clooney/Keaton's Batman for a few moments to realise it was him. 
I didn't have any real problems with Bale's voice, I thought it created a nice effect - especially when he was dangling Maroni from the stairs. "I'm counting on it." was brilliantly delivered and reeked of the Batman I know and love. 
 
Indeed, it is a shame that he couldn't receive a better director. His interaction with Dick Grayson really brought to the front how unable Bruce is to guide/father a lost child. I never did like how over the top those Batman movies were. No disrespect to Tim Burton, the man is legendary. I just think that Nolan really took Batman to his roots - a psychologically dark world.
#11 Posted by ntb1124 (949 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

@danhimself said:

I honestly don't think there was any of the actors playing Batman were bad choices but that they had bad directors and bad writers....Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney are all terrific actors and they would have made great Batmen but they didn't have directors and writers who understood the character

I agree. Burton's never read a damn comic book in his life and Schumocker must have been high. If George Clooney were in his prime, I think he'd be an excellent Bruce Wayne/Batman.

Tim Burton is one of those people that everyone always raves about, but I always hated his movies. Felt like he was trying to show us the Nightmare before Christmas versions of whatever movie he was making, and I am still angry about his crap version of Willy Wonka!!!!!!!!

#12 Posted by ComicCrazy (1537 posts) - - Show Bio

Thoughts on Val Kilmer as Batman: ................terrible

#13 Edited by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

I felt the same comparability in his voice to Conroy's, but I actually believed it was intentional and that Val studied the TAS series in preparation for the role.

Otherwise I couldn't see Bruce Wayne for some reason, just Val Kilmer.

I liked Bales voicing though, a lot, and because he paid strong attention to the details laid out in the actual comic book characters synopsis, especially how, why, when and the way Bruce intentionally modifies his own voice as well as face to situations in order to achieve specific results, and of course as they were doing something new with the Nolan film's rather than iterating the old so I got something out of it.

#14 Posted by Kairan1979 (16711 posts) - - Show Bio

Val Kilmer was good as Bruce Wayne, but not as Batman.

#15 Posted by Saren (25273 posts) - - Show Bio

.....wasn't he the one who stood up in a crowded circus tent and yelled "I AM BATMAN" mere minutes after Dick's parents were killed in front of him?

Moderator
#16 Posted by entropy_aegis (14214 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

.....wasn't he the one who stood up in a crowded circus tent and yelled "I AM BATMAN" mere minutes after Dick's parents were killed in front of him?

Yeah,LOL.Schumacher and Burton did'nt know squat about Batman.With that said i think Val was the most derirable/relatable Batman.

#17 Posted by moviegeek17 (1474 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpiritGoat said:

I defend that movie at any time I can get, I really liked the psychiatric scenes with Nicole Kidman plus Robin was alright

The psychiatric scenes with forever were some of my favorite growing up and they still are. It's a decent movie, by all means its better than batman and robin. But what ruins it for me is the incompetent gordon, the poorly written villains (carey's performance is still entertaining though) and the sake of action for action.

It's weird for me to say this but when i saw batman forever last year the movie immediately went downhill whenever he switched into he batman cause the quality of writing would drop like batman's dive bomb move from arkam city.

#18 Posted by daredevil21134 (10828 posts) - - Show Bio

I think he's the best

#19 Posted by Joygirl (18476 posts) - - Show Bio

He was my favorite before Bale came along, even with Bale's growl. He deserved a better writer and director... i hope Shoemaker feels bad about the things he's done....

#20 Posted by RedOwl_1 (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

mmm... no comments, don't care too much the acting because the director tells them what to do, the voice neither because I saw all those batman's movies in latin spanish dub, I care the history and this and superman returns is crap but that's Schumacher fail and believe me the only reason I don't hate Batman and Robin is thanks to the Bat-credit card (no worry is in english)

#21 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

I always felt Val was a waste of potential. 
  
As Bruce Wayne, he had the height (Well, 6''0, near enough), had the build and posture, had a good voice and was smooth. He was just naturally a good Bruce Wayne, he even looked like Bruce Wayne. He actually felt like a relatable Bruce Wayne, and not a fake. As Batman, he fell a bit, but was still okay. He moved like Batman, had a nice change in voice, as you said, he made Wayne's voice different to Bale's, but not over-the-top or growly.  
 
BUT, despite being a good Batman/Bruce Wayne, Schumar was unfortunately a DRUG ADDICT. He made Gordon crap, again, made the villains ridiculous and made the film too childish. It was crap. 
 
I'd have to say, if Val was given a better costume, and I mean much better, better script, villains, etc, and all that, he would have threatened Bale's Batman. But that's a giant IF. 
 
He did however, surpass Keaton's. Keaton was a crap Wayne, not relatable, and as Batman he sounded constipated. 

#22 Posted by moviegeek17 (1474 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

I always felt Val was a waste of potential. As Bruce Wayne, he had the height (Well, 6''0, near enough), had the build and posture, had a good voice and was smooth. He was just naturally a good Bruce Wayne, he even looked like Bruce Wayne. He actually felt like a relatable Bruce Wayne, and not a fake. As Batman, he fell a bit, but was still okay. He moved like Batman, had a nice change in voice, as you said, he made Wayne's voice different to Bale's, but not over-the-top or growly. BUT, despite being a good Batman/Bruce Wayne, Schumar was unfortunately a DRUG ADDICT. He made Gordon crap, again, made the villains ridiculous and made the film too childish. It was crap. I'd have to say, if Val was given a better costume, and I mean much better, better script, villains, etc, and all that, he would have threatened Bale's Batman. But that's a giant IF. He did however, surpass Keaton's. Keaton was a crap Wayne, not relatable, and as Batman he sounded constipated.

to be fair burton screwed up gordon first, schumacher just stuck with the same crappy characterization. Otherwise i really do agree with your points.

There is this one scene in particular that i remember watching where he goes through the fire and we see his face which is full of rage with that I'm taking you down sort of attitude and i remember thinking to myself oh my god he IS batman in that panel.

I'm so glad that he had the sense to avoid the train wreck that was batman and robin. I actually think he said in an interview that those movies weren't even about batman but his villains. He was quite correct with that statement.

#23 Edited by Croaker (296 posts) - - Show Bio

He had nice rubber tits.

#24 Posted by Jane McClane (201 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always felt the same way, I think Val Kilmer could have done wonders with the proper script. Keaton on the other hand.... I never saw the attraction. Don't even get me started on Clooney.... Bat credit card my @ss....

As far as Bale's voice goes, I thought it was incredible in Batman Begins, and I honestly didn't even notice anything bad in the Dark Knight until I started reading the message boards online. Honestly I think it was just as good, but the script was much more conversational in The Dark Knight, so it kinda lost its flare... (that's not Bale's fault) Nothing can beat that "SWEAR TO ME!!!!" from Begins....

#25 Posted by SpiritGoat (25 posts) - - Show Bio

@moviegeek17: Gah I hated Fat Gordon, also never liked the disregard to Harvey Dent being Billy Dee Williams in the first movie. I never understood how Lando + acid = Tommy Lee Jones

#26 Posted by moviegeek17 (1474 posts) - - Show Bio

@SpiritGoat:

agreed on all counts. though at least in this film batman doesn't go on whole sale murder sprees lol

#27 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

I always thought Val Kilmer played a solid Bruce/Batman. Had he worked with a decent director and a more solid script, I actually think he could have surpassed Keaton. Just with regards to Bale's voice. He was talking a lot more (to people who were unaware of his identity) in Dark Knight than in Begins. Bruce doesn't want people to know it's him, disguising your voice as an almost inaudible growl makes more sense than just deepening it slightly. Someone who knew Bruce need only listen to Kilmer/Clooney/Keaton's Batman for a few moments to realise it was him.

For me he was by far Better that Keaton, Keaton lacks this Batman thing, i actually think it was Burtons fault, Kilmer did the best job he could with an amazingly bad script.

@RainEffect said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:
I always thought Val Kilmer played a solid Bruce/Batman. Had he worked with a decent director and a more solid script, I actually think he could have surpassed Keaton. Just with regards to Bale's voice. He was talking a lot more (to people who were unaware of his identity) in Dark Knight than in Begins. Bruce doesn't want people to know it's him, disguising your voice as an almost inaudible growl makes more sense than just deepening it slightly. Someone who knew Bruce need only listen to Kilmer/Clooney/Keaton's Batman for a few moments to realise it was him.
I didn't have any real problems with Bale's voice, I thought it created a nice effect - especially when he was dangling Maroni from the stairs. "I'm counting on it." was brilliantly delivered and reeked of the Batman I know and love. Indeed, it is a shame that he couldn't receive a better director. His interaction with Dick Grayson really brought to the front how unable Bruce is to guide/father a lost child. I never did like how over the top those Batman movies were. No disrespect to Tim Burton, the man is legendary. I just think that Nolan really took Batman to his roots - a psychologically dark world.

Joel try to bring Batman into a more psychologicall world, he just failed becuase Burton never try to make a Batman movie, he dont even cared who Batman was.

Gordon and Alfred are evidence of how poor his work was, Joel try his best, but Burton decide to make his Bettlejuice movie again and sell it like if it was Batman, the same could be said about Willi Wonka and all his films.

@ntb1124 said:

@Gambit1024 said:

@danhimself said:

I honestly don't think there was any of the actors playing Batman were bad choices but that they had bad directors and bad writers....Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney are all terrific actors and they would have made great Batmen but they didn't have directors and writers who understood the character

I agree. Burton's never read a damn comic book in his life and Schumocker must have been high. If George Clooney were in his prime, I think he'd be an excellent Bruce Wayne/Batman.

Tim Burton is one of those people that everyone always raves about, but I always hated his movies. Felt like he was trying to show us the Nightmare before Christmas versions of whatever movie he was making, and I am still angry about his crap version of Willy Wonka!!!!!!!!

You are wrong, he is trying to show us Edward Sciscorhands, that why you always see Johnny Depp in every single of his movies.

I mean Johnny Depp as Willy Wonka was an awful casting choice.

#28 Posted by Jane McClane (201 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks a lot guys, now I'm sitting at work watching Batman Forever....

#29 Posted by moviegeek17 (1474 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jane McClane said:

Thanks a lot guys, now I'm sitting at work watching Batman Forever....

it could be worse, you could be watching batman and robin ;) lol

#30 Posted by The Stegman (23031 posts) - - Show Bio

meh

#31 Posted by Jane McClane (201 posts) - - Show Bio

@moviegeek17 said:

@Jane McClane said:

Thanks a lot guys, now I'm sitting at work watching Batman Forever....

it could be worse, you could be watching batman and robin ;) lol

Yeah.... No Bat Credit Card for me! "I never leave the cave without it..."

#32 Posted by moviegeek17 (1474 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jane McClane said:

@moviegeek17 said:

@Jane McClane said:

Thanks a lot guys, now I'm sitting at work watching Batman Forever....

it could be worse, you could be watching batman and robin ;) lol

Yeah.... No Bat Credit Card for me! "I never leave the cave without it..."

lol thats a really good one, and agreed. I can't believe that movie ever saw the light of day...

#33 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jane McClane said:

Thanks a lot guys, now I'm sitting at work watching Batman Forever....

How you could watch a movie in your work?

#34 Edited by Jane McClane (201 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeathpooltheT1000 said:

@Jane McClane said:

Thanks a lot guys, now I'm sitting at work watching Batman Forever....

How you could watch a movie in your work?

I have the most pointless job ever as an RA at my school... I have to man the front desk of the dorms until 1AM... nothing ever happens so we just do homework and sit on our computers...

#35 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jane McClane said:

@DeathpooltheT1000 said:

@Jane McClane said:

Thanks a lot guys, now I'm sitting at work watching Batman Forever....

How you could watch a movie in your work?

I have the most pointless job ever as an RA at my school... I have to man the front desk of the dorms until 1AM... nothing ever happens so we just do homework and sit on our computers...

THAT SOUND LIKE A KICK ASS JOB!!!!!

You do nothing and get paid, why i cant get a job like that?

#36 Posted by Jane McClane (201 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeathpooltheT1000 said:

@Jane McClane said:

@DeathpooltheT1000 said:

@Jane McClane said:

Thanks a lot guys, now I'm sitting at work watching Batman Forever....

How you could watch a movie in your work?

I have the most pointless job ever as an RA at my school... I have to man the front desk of the dorms until 1AM... nothing ever happens so we just do homework and sit on our computers...

THAT SOUND LIKE A KICK ASS JOB!!!!!

You do nothing and get paid, why i cant get a job like that?

No we do nothing when we're on duty..... but as RAs we're on call 24/7, so we have tp listen to residents complain about their issues all the time, do roommate mediation, and create social programs.... also, we have to sit at that desk on weekends from 845 to 1AM so.... no weekend for us :(

#37 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jane McClane said:

@DeathpooltheT1000 said:

@Jane McClane said:

@DeathpooltheT1000 said:

@Jane McClane said:

Thanks a lot guys, now I'm sitting at work watching Batman Forever....

How you could watch a movie in your work?

I have the most pointless job ever as an RA at my school... I have to man the front desk of the dorms until 1AM... nothing ever happens so we just do homework and sit on our computers...

THAT SOUND LIKE A KICK ASS JOB!!!!!

You do nothing and get paid, why i cant get a job like that?

No we do nothing when we're on duty..... but as RAs we're on call 24/7, so we have tp listen to residents complain about their issues all the time, do roommate mediation, and create social programs.... also, we have to sit at that desk on weekends from 845 to 1AM so.... no weekend for us :(

Whats is pretty much of my life and i dont get paid.

#38 Posted by ashraf_wayne (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Bale was the most pretentious Batman and Ledger the most pretentious Joker.

#39 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@ashraf_wayne said:

Bale was the most pretentious Batman and Ledger the most pretentious Joker.

An that is the most pretentious comment and nothing to do with the thread.

So you fail, you hipster!!!

#40 Posted by redleader1 (469 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: umm so does the roman and flass know his identity. Also in the dark knight it was just off in comparison to begins, he just is to grow like but in begins he is what the comics he does have a deep scratchy voice but with still a element of Bruce in it. In the dark knight it was to fast and a growl more than a carfuly planed by a trained to an extent ventriloquist voice. Also in the dark knight he used that voice when he did not need to strike terror in the hearts of men that's why begins was a good voice he changed it a bit with Gordon, in the dark knight he just growled a bit then never had layers. And hell I like the bale voice better than anyone's ever.

#41 Posted by sinestro_GL (3050 posts) - - Show Bio

I really wanted to like Val Kilmer as Batman, but just could never get into it

#42 Posted by Azrael_Online (186 posts) - - Show Bio

@redowl_1 said:

"I've got some wild oats to sew."
"youth does have it's advantags - endurance, stamina. Forget the geriatric bat. Come join me, my garden needs tending."
"Some lucky buys about to hit the honey pot"

...what the... wow, Never really payed attention to how messed up
Aside from the hilarious verbiage, I think that a great deal of people's opinions on who played a better Batman has more to do with which one you grew up with. I always thought, and still do find, Keaton to be the better Bruce/Bat, but didn't mind Kilmer or Clooney as an 'older' Batman with the strange Robin/Nightwing hybrid. Cannot stand Bale as Batman with the voice being the biggest part of it. His Bruce is good sometimes. I just don't buy Bruce as being as dumb as he puts him off to be.

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