I just finished watching the film, it was awesome except for these reasons:

Gotham streets were always empty, they could have added a couple of pedestrians or cars here and there...

Too liberal with death(The first person who died in the movie was actually very sad to see, I wanted him to have a 1 on 1 as the final boss fight and I didn't want THE MAD hATTER TO DIE EITHER)

Too liberal with secret Identity(Only Dick though but they use real names too much...Nightwing even told his girlfriend "Nightwing Out" as a good bye...

Absence of Tim and Jason...Batman mentioned a couple of times to keep it within the family and it didn't have that much of an impact as compared to the comics(Night of owls, Death of the family,etc)

Batman didn't "Die" long enough, that is Dick was Batman for a day or 2 only...

Lucius Fox wasn't used properly

Mind you, the movie was awesome and enjoyable, these are only minor changes that would have changed it from a 7/10 into a 9/10 (The last one would be rewarded if batman actually died)

@abdullahzubair Hmm i'd have to go back and watch the film because I didn't even pay attention to the streets at all. If they're always empty like you say then yeah that's a bad look.

I'll give the film one thing: Heretic's death shocked the heck out of me. I truly didn't see it coming and was expecting him to show up again at the end.

Well neither Jason or Tim exists in this universe, at least not as members of the Bat Family, in the same way that Jason wasn't in BTAS and Tim wasn't in Under the Red Hood. I can't fault the film for doing the same thing that the other adaptations have done. That just it what it is. I at least enjoyed them really branching out by adding Batwing and Batwoman, plus the cameo at the end of the film.

Agreed on Batman not being "dead" for long enough, but I went into the film expecting that. If you watched some of the trailers beforehand it was already spoiled that he'd be back in costume by the end and Dick back to using the Nightwing mantle. Would've been better in my opinion had Bruce disappeared and then they never found him during this film. You then have Dick, Damian, and the others solve the threat on their own and they find Bruce somewhere during the course of the next Batman film. Maybe even have Dick show up as Batman during the Teen Titans vs JLA film too.

That would have been really cool if they did that with Batman...I think the reason they didn't show Jason in BTAS was because he had died and kids would get traumatised if they learned of his fate....It is a very sick way to go, with a crowbar...

And Tim wasn't in Under the Hood as they wanted to magnify the horror batman went through as he never got a new Robin because of Todd's death....But in the end, I think after these events, he would make Tim a robin...

And that was not the only death...Since they were dealing with c-listers, they killed off every one of them including Mad Hatter

And trailers should not have spoiled that either..I just watched the first teaser and that is it....

They branched out by adding Batwing and Batwoman but they weren't considered a part of the family....And they aren't..

Perhaps, but either way there's never been a single animated universe where they've included all the Robins. So them not doing so now again doesn't surprise me.

I know that wasn't the only death, but that's the one I cared about. The rest were just "meh" and didn't really matter to me. They're no more important than any random assassin. DC still has plenty of Rogues to pull from for the future films and has actually been limiting themselves quite a bit so far. Freeze, Joker, Ivy, Crane, Strange, Bane, etc. They've got a lot of room to work with so they can afford to be liberal. Heretic just surprised me because he was marketed as the main villain of the film. I don't even think Talia or Hatter showed up in the trailers. Then they killed him off halfway through. At least give him a climactic fight with Damian at the end.

By the end of the film Bruce clearly considers them a part of the team and is willing to work with them. Jason and Tim again don't exist in this universe, so if they'd shown up in this film it would've been exactly the same and it'll probably be the same with Batgirl in the next film.

Heretic totally... how to say... whats right word... ?unused?

When i saw him first time in this, i expected Damian death, and wait for that to last sec of this movie. Hope that will in next movie come Hush to make totall mess, and with Bruce identity somehow kill Damian.

@nathaniel_christopher: but for a hero who is known to have a no kill rule, there were an awful lot of deaths in the movie..and if talk a didn't get on the plane, she would have died...but death would have been prevented if batwing intervened but he just stood there...and if you want to use villains, at least give them some control of the situation. ..and you are wrong about the fact that Jason and Tim would not play a crucial role....Tim had an important role in the comics...and there have not been many batman movies with robins in them. .. so, I would just love to watch a battle of the cowls type movie featuring all robins

Nah the only thing Hush needs is 2 minutes in a locked room with an actual good villain.

BTFC would still feed on the Jason is a loser wannabe perception and Tim Drake will get shafted because he was just a prop. Damian will of course get the blame cause it's all his fault.

Speaking of Jason,just read Europa and realized it was Under The Red Hood done right.

Have you not watched the previous films? Because all three have had high death counts.

The villain did have control of the situation. Talia was at the head and Hatter was one of her minions. This is standard in the comics and happens between villains all the time.

Both Batwing and Batwoman played crucial roles in stopping the villains so that's not something special to either Jason or Tim. Especially because I didn't say they wouldn't play crucial roles. I said that if they were first being introduced into this film that they wouldn't suddenly be all buddy buddy with Batman and Nightwing, just like Batwoman and Batwing weren't, because they don't exist. They'd have to be introduced, a conflict would have to happen, they'd have to work together, and at the end they'd be allied with the Bat Family, which is exactly like what happened in Bad Blood with Batwing and Batwoman. I also didn't say that there haven't been Batman films with Robins, so i'm not sure why you're mentioning that. The fact remains, as I stated, that there's never been a single animated universe will all the members of the Bat Family in it. So complaining about this film not having both Jason and Tim doesn't make any sense. May as well complain that BTAS didn't have Jason or that Under the Red Hood didn't have Tim Drake. It's a pointless issue that fans keep bringing up time and again, despite the fact that it is literally the exact same way that DC always handles things and it makes a fair amount of sense. There's no reason for them to shove all these characters into one film when they can simply spread them out among multiple different ones.

@entropy_aegis:

Then if not Heretic, who else to kill Damian ? Lets use some ''origin'' story for this universe !? Just don't say the Joker :D

The previous Batman movies were not in the same universe, so due to the short time, they couldn't deal with all the characters so they took out a few of them...But since this is a continuose universe, they could have included as many characters as they wanted but alas, they chose not to....No one complains about BTAS or Under the Red Hood because they were all good movies/cartoons and including them wouldn't have made that much of a difference...But it would increased the emotional connect in this movie if they had done so... The death rate of henchmen is high in DC, but that doesn't mean that all of them have to die, and these were villains in their own way, not henchmen(They were part of a group and were more challenging than normal human henchmen)....I watched the previous movies and the deaths in this were used nonsensically...If this keeps up, arkham and blackgate would be empty within 4 movies...

And I understand that they can't satisfy everyone, but they removed 2 important characters from the Batman mythos and I do not think it is fair...Especially since those 2 were my favourite(I am biased)

I enjoyed it none the less...

What is BTFC...??

As i've pointed out already the previous films and animated universes (Batman the Animated Series, The Batman, etc, which were works that lasted years and left plenty of time for them to have as many characters appear as they wanted to) didn't include different characters as well. This complaint is pointless. May as well complain that Jason and Damian are not appearing in the Batman Unlimited series of films, whereas Dick and Tim are. Not every character is going to be in every animated adaptation that make. It's as simple as that.

All the villains in Son of Batman died except for Talia, same in Batman vs Robin. Nonsensical deaths are deaths that have no meaning, which is pretty much how the deaths of every villain in Batman vs Robin went down. The entire Court of Owls organization was murdered by Talon and he ended up dying too. That's no different than Heretic and his squad in this film.

I already told you why Jason wasn't included in BTAS....But he could've been a part of this but he isn't....The Batman Unlimited series are for kids...So they would include Dick and Tim...Jason and Damian are too hardcore for that(Same reason why he wasn't included in BTAS) If you are a fan of a particular character, and that character isn't given the proper respect he deserves, you would be mad too...So my opinion is biased... But if they included these 2 characters. sales of Red Hood and Teen Titans would have increased....

Villains don't die in comics at all...I have not seen any villain die in a Batman comic in a long time(I haven't read the current storyline tho so might have happened in it) But they are killed left, right and centre in this...in a couple of comics, Batman regrets having let a thug die but there is no regret here...You just can't kill so many people at once...And the court of Owls were killed in the comics too so their death is justified to being close to the source material and it had an impact..There was no impact here on the audience watching...I felt bad for Mad Hatter and Heretic as they were very under used..I wanted to see what would happen since Hatter knew who Batman was....

That's all this really comes down to and if you admit that then there's no point in continuing this conversation.

What makes you say this? As far as I can see, TDKR was about an aged, veteran Bruce Wayne coming out of retirement to face his most grueling challenge yet and establish Batman as a beacon of hope for Gotham City which can be passed on to the next generation while Bruce Wayne finally enjoys his well deserved peace. Arrow S2 was about the personal feud between Oliver Queen and Slade Wilson as Slade goes from a brother to a nemesis, while Oliver struggles to let go of his past experiences and become a hero. In that respect, they're actually polar opposites. TDKR is about Batman's legacy concluding, while Arrow S2 ends with Oliver finally becoming a hero. And while the conflict of Arrow S2 revolves around past relationships, Bane is shown to be a brand new threat in TDKR.

Should've made it more specific,Slade's entire villain plot was a ripoff of Bane's villains plot both from Rises and from Bane comics. Slade has never done anything like that,much less in a GA story.

What similarities did Slade and Bane's plots hold? Slade was out, specifically, just to ruin Oliver Queen's life. All of his plans were personal attacks on the protagonist, while Batman was just an obstacle in Bane's way towards larger goals which he got rid of as soon as possible. They both nearly destroyed their respective cities... but that concept in itself not exactly original. I guess hundreds of movies and stories were also inspired by TDKR, even before TDKR was written? Not to mention their methods were completely different, Slade creating a personal army of super soldiers while Bane hijacked a nuke. I'm just not seeing any similarities here.

And why exactly does it matter that Slade's plan in Arrow wasn't taken exactly from something he did in the comics? What is wrong with an original story?

No Batman was the goal in Rises,they wanted to punish him for his past transgressions,his betrayal.

Except Slade trying to destroy the city was random and made no sense, Bane and the LOS had Gotham marked for destruction for years and they saw Bruce had done everything in his power to save it from annihilation. They knew it was Bruce's pressure point all the way back from Begins. Slade had no reason other than:

1) They want to pretend Star City is Gotham to their Batma...oops Arrow.

2) "Destruction of the city" plan has become the easy way to close out a season.

The only time it was fleshed out was when Merlyn was trying to do it and he wasn't after the entire city to even begin with.

Those hundreds of movies dont put Felicity in a wheel chair and make Calculator her arch nemesis,they dont have Ra's al Ghul trying to force their protagonists to become his heir,they dont tell potential Ra's al Ghul actors to go watch Rises. No one has accused Arrow of originality,why should I assume they are being original when I can look at the source material and the influences to see where they are drawing their stories from.

At no point was Slades plan even resembling anything Deathstroke ever did in any medium but it resembles Bane an awful lot. One or two similarities can be dismissed but when it's pretty much the same from the start to the end then you know somethings wrog.

Why did a conversation about Batman become an argument over the much inferior intellectual property, Arrow?

What are you talking about? I thought we were having a discussion about how Arrow season 2 was inspired by The Dark Knight Rises. Now, you're going on a big nerd-rant about your passionate hate for the show and telling me about how much it sucks? Like, what? You think I care? I thought we were actually going to have an interesting thematic and structural comparison, not hear about your hate-boner and all about how much cooler Batman is.

Huh you mad bro? you said something and I addressed it,that's all that happened. Sure I took a dig at Arrow's constant use of "city destruction" trope but that's pretty much the only time I scoffed at it.

LOL

@entropy_aegis: You went completely off topic. Initially you said that Arrow S2 was inspired by TDKR, so I curiously asked why and sparked conversation. When I proved you wrong and showed that Arrow S2 and TDKR have no similarities at all, you apparently got mad and replied with that drabble about how much Arrow sucks and how great Batman is. Like, what? That's not what we were talking about. It's okay if you masturbate to Batman, but that post kinda annoyed me because you're just regurgitating the exact same tired statements from Batman fanboys about how Arrow "stole" this and that. I've heard it a hundred times, you aren't saying anything revolutionary.

You didn't prove anything,you were outright proven wrong about Bane's motivation.

You're the one who went off topic by bringing up "other movies",so I chose to reference the source material and the actual influences which apparently ticked you off because you cant accept it. Start naming these other movies and material or shut up,because I have Rises,Knightfall,Bane of the Demon and Knight Terrors to compare Arrow season 2 to. You cant compare it to any Deathstroke or Green Arrow story. The off topic part of my post was me taking Arrow's originality as you claimed to task,original shows dont do all that crap they've done with Felicity and Ra's.

Now all you've been doing for the last 2 posts is attacking me personally,take a deep breath and relax.

You can only find sh!t like this by clicking ppls profiles:)

Haven't watched it yet but I liked Son of Batman and Batman vs. Robin so gonna check it out soon.

Thought movie was good although could have done without the lesbian stuff with bat woman that's completely unnecessary. And I would have rather seen Tim drake and Jason Todd instead of bat wing. And stick with Barbara Gordon as batgirl. But that's just my opinion. I would enjoy an animated series/movie like a modern btas with bat family from new 52 with Damian dick Tim Jason and Barbra

This was definitely an improve meant to the last two previous Bat films, it really helped that Damian was the overpowered brat that was the focus of the film. It had some very good and cool fight scenes/choreography, some of the coolest DC animated flims have put out yet. I personally dug Grayson's Batman suit more than Wayne's.

But this flim did fall short on some thing for me, I would I have much prefer them go fully with the Batman & Robin: Reborn arc. With eerie offbeat tone and Professor Pyg has the main villain. While having Heretic in the flim was very surprising as well has Talia. I wished they would have explained her sudden megalomaniac and cutthroat nature, specially sense she was not like that at all. It also would be very nicely and lovely if more positive focus was put on Bruce and Dick's relationship and bond, Dick is Bruce's first son technically. I just wish there was more love and attention with that bond in these flims, but that was a very nice part in the end. I think my biggest letdown or disappointment with this film and universe as whole, is the serious lack of more establish Bat Clan related characters. Like Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain, Barbara Gordon or even Jason Todd. But like @bat_girl_cc said I don't think Cass or Tim for that matter would do well and thrive in this particular universe, so I very much agree with her on that notion. Plus Batwoman and Batwing were cool additions and I did enjoy them in this film, even Batwoman was annoying very much at times.

Overall this was one the cooler and more enjoyable DC animated production and I did dig it, so I give it a solid 7.9.

This isn't appropriate. Also from what I have read of the conversation entropy brought up arrow as an aside thing and you asked him specifically about arrow. If your going to derail a thread at least keep it civil. I have to give you a warning.

@jashro44: Oboy, now that you're a mod I'd better cool it before you're forced to ban me. Sorry.

@entropy_aegis Sorry for arguing.

@nickzambuto: No problem. It happens.

You sonofabitch. You beat me to it.

I actually thought that any scenes with Kate and Rene together came off fairly nice.

Bump

@nathaniel_christopher: Same here

the movie has no emotional impact

whoever watches this will say it had good this and that and bad this and that....but what defines greatness is

did it leave you breathless?...did it have a lasting impact on you?...did it bring some new life into the 100 year old Batman stories?...

NO it didn't

2/10 (for the action and some interesting moments "not many")

I didn't like batman bad blood