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    Batman

    Character » Batman appears in 23535 issues.

    Bruce Wayne, who witnessed the murder of his billionaire parents as a child, swore to avenge their deaths. He trained extensively to achieve mental and physical perfection, mastering martial arts, detective skills, and criminal psychology. Costumed as a bat to prey on the fears of criminals, and utilizing a high-tech arsenal, he became the legendary Batman.

    The point of Harper Row, Duke Thomas and Mr.Bloom

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    Chronos96

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    Ok so to begin aside from the most recent annual I've read every Snyder issue of Batman and throughout his entire run he keeps implying that there is more to Harper's mother than she knows. As far as I can remember just focusing specifically on Batman. Issues 12 and 18 were really Harper-centric so question number one is what do you think Harper's significance is? Do you think Mother from Eternal has something to do with her directly or do you think Snyder will ever fully address why she's so "important"?

    For Duke Thomas we saw that Bruce rescued Duke during Zero Year and that in Endgame they seem to be on good terms. With the We are Robin series it looks like the future from the Batman and Robin Futures End issue is slowly becoming a reality but I can't help but feel that Bruce and Duke need to have an info dump conversation sometime soon. Full disclosure I haven't read We are Robin personally but keep up with reviews. I'm still a little bit on the fence about it to be honest.

    It's been argued that Batman's rogue gallery are reflections of his own psyche and that Snyder considers Mr.Bloom to be the problem/evil that grows through the cracks but as readers do you think that Bloom will have a lasting place in the rogues gallery? I loved the concept of the Court of owls initially but during the Talon series and finding that that they have further reach than Just Gotham and now recently with the revelation that there is a Parliament of Owls has kind of killed their wow factor for me.

    Finally where do you think the Bat books will be heading in the next two years or so barring any new titles being released? After the end of Batman and Robin Eternal We'll have: Harper Row, Duke Thomas, Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain and Jean-Paul Valley five "New" Characters so to speak. I said it before in a previous post I like Snyder but I feel that his policy of always wanting to tell the best stories possible while understandable means that I normally want to have a breather between major stories like Zero year or Endgame. I would have been completely satisfied if Zero year was just his Joker origin story because to be honest by the middle of Dark City I was a bit bored. I loved his two-part Clayface Story looking back some of the best batman stories have only been 2-3 issues. I just feel that Snyder while talented never lands his endings "Just Right" and never really seeds or builds up or earns his stories so to speak it's just epic after epic which like I said above can be exhausting. Going back to the "New" Characters aside from their appearances in Catwoman and We are Robin respectively do you think that Duke and Stephanie and going further Jean, Cass and Harper will get the character development the deserve? My biggest fear story-telling wise is that Snyder will leave before Harper's parentage is addressed and that the rest will just be used barely or not at all. Sorry for writing a book but seriously any long thought out responses for this?

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    Nathaniel_Christopher

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    In terms of why Harper's so important, outside of the comic it's because she's one of Snyder's pet characters who he wants to see stick around for years and years and become an important part of the Batman mythos. Same with Duke. He very clearly wants Duke to be the next Robin and Harper to be something, with both playing integral roles in Batman's life going forward. This is evidenced in a variety of ways, not the least of which is the fact that within Snyder's run they've been given more prominence and development than any of Batman's other costumed allies/children/family. Within the story, from Batman and Robin Eternal, a connection is being drawn between Harper and Cassandra, i'd say to branch the character out and make her that much more important to the Bat Family. Right now they're kind of jumping around having most of Batman's allies being implied to have some connection to Mother, which makes sense as Mother's entier shtick is to create perfect people/partners for whoever's willing to pay. I think that after Dick Harper's the one that's had this connection focused on the most. Personally I think that over any of the others Harper will have a connection with Mother, thereby revealing why she's "special" to any extent. What that would mean going forward however I couldn't guess.

    Then like I already said Duke's pretty much the same as Harper, with Snyder just pushing him really strongly as his pet character. In the whole We Are Robin and Robin War thing Duke was kind of presented as a cut above the other Robins (From the We Are Robin group, not the ones actually trained by Batman) I think, receiving more focus and showcasing leadership ability and the talent to think under pressure. And with his previous appearances beforehand you can pretty much expect that out of everyone from the We Are Robin group he's the one that'll stick around down the line for Snyder's run.

    In regards to the future, I honestly think that if Cassandra, Stephanie, and Jean Paul are going to receive real focus and development that it won't be under Snyder's pen. Not to say that he couldn't do it per se, but I just don't think that he will, in the same way that Jason and Tim don't receive any focus from him. It goes beyond them having their own books as well, its just that he doesn't want to use them or really any of Batman's allies outside of specific events. If he can avoid using them he will. So going forward, after Bruce takes back the cowl, I expect to see Batman start working more with Harper and Duke now that both are no longer strictly civilians. I doubt that Duke will actually become Robin officially (Because Damian's not going anywhere right now when he was just resurrected and currently has a solo that's selling well, and isn't losing the Robin mantle within the next few years) so they'll probably go the Lark route. I then don't think that there'll be any room for Cassandra or Stephanie. Cassandra in particular i'm not even sure what exactly anyone at DC is planning to do with the character right now. She can't be Batgirl because that spot's filled. She can't be Oracle because she doesn't fit into that role. Snyder's got Harper set up as Batman's new female sidekick, with Duke as the male. Dick, Jason, Tim, and Barbara are aided to some extent by the fact that they're already established in clear positions, not only within the Bat Family and in terms of working with Batman, but within the DCU as a whole. They all have their own titles now or series that they're appearing in in which they can flourish and be developed and taken down any path. Stephanie and Cassandra don't have that and I really couldn't see them getting their own solos right now either. With Cassandra I imagine they'll fall back on the name she had right before Flashpoint, Black Bat, but as to what book they'll put her in I haven't a clue. Same goes for Stephanie. I suppose Steph could probably appear in Teen Titans, but with both of them just having been introduced its important to solidly plant their roots in Gotham with some decent stories. How they'll do that though I again have no idea.

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    entropy_aegis

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    #3  Edited By entropy_aegis

    The point is that they're reject versions of Tim Drake whom Snyder insists on using because he's still stuck in the 90's. Snyder's failure to acknowledge the last 2 decades of Batman is just baffling. It's really just like Johns and his silver age fetish,DC needs to rein in these guys and I dont care how much they sell. They're destroying their own properties by allowing these guys to get away with everything, Wally West comes to mind. More importantly Snyder himself doesn't care,sure he wants them to be big and prominent but caring=giving them stories,making them unique,giving them some new toys to play with or existing untapped elements etc. Snyder though can only be bothered to write the next big Joker story. So he just wants the reward without the effort and the commitment, if Duke and Harper were just civilians who interacted with Bruce in this run then it wouldn't be much of an issue,but when the writer not so subtly wants them to replace existing masked heroes then he needs to come up with something bigger than just putting these civilians in costumes.

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    TheExile285

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    So Duke started out in Synder's Batman run? That's really interesting. I need get caught up on it. When I read We Are Robin, I assumed he was a new character created for that series.

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    entropy_aegis

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    So Duke started out in Synder's Batman run? That's really interesting. I need get caught up on it. When I read We Are Robin, I assumed he was a new character created for that series.

    He might as well be,the Duke in Snyder's Zero Year is a totally different character from the Duke in Snyder's Superheavy who in turn is different from the kid in WAR.

    They dont really care about who or what he is or even what he is supposed to be,they just want a black kid to be Robin. Snyder has so far not even acknowledged WAR or Duke's friends in his own book. They dont even have the same costume.

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    Bat_Girl_CC

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    #6  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

    I'm not a fan of any of those 3, although Harper is slowly growing on me, and at this point i find her worthless but bareable...Duke and Mr.Bloom, need don't add much if anyhting to the bat-mythos, and like-wise will eventually be forgotten once Snyder leaves the bat-franshise, for wonder woman, or some other project that he's interested on.

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    Chronos96

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    He might as well be,the Duke in Snyder's Zero Year is a totally different character from the Duke in Snyder's Superheavy who in turn is different from the kid in WAR.

    I do agree that it's a bit odd that WAR came out so quickly when Duke really hadn't had much of a chance to have a voice established for himself although between Duke and Harper I legitimately like Duke. I know I said lots of things above but if I had to put it in bullet points:

    • Just writing in general a new character shouldn't be introduced unless they serve a purpose mainly move the story forward. In terms of comics I just feel like you should have a general long term plan or arc for them. Ex Morrison planning to kill off Damian.
    • Conceptually I think the idea of Mr.Bloom is cool regardless of who created him honestly he's someone I'd like to see more of because as of right now we don't have any real idea of who he is versus the Court of Owls who kind of fall flat once you take them out of Gotham.
    • Personally I'd like to see smaller scale stories rather than 6,10,12+ issue arcs with a focus on the rogues gallery. Why are they a threat? Why or how do they challenge Batman? I'd like to see more 2-4 part stories the idea being that with smaller stories the narrative is (hopefully) more concise which means the writer has to know exactly what they want to do rather than just mender on.
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    Nathaniel_Christopher

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    @entropy_aegis said:

    He might as well be,the Duke in Snyder's Zero Year is a totally different character from the Duke in Snyder's Superheavy who in turn is different from the kid in WAR.

    I do agree that it's a bit odd that WAR came out so quickly when Duke really hadn't had much of a chance to have a voice established for himself although between Duke and Harper I legitimately like Duke. I know I said lots of things above but if I had to put it in bullet points:

    • Just writing in general a new character shouldn't be introduced unless they serve a purpose mainly move the story forward. In terms of comics I just feel like you should have a general long term plan or arc for them. Ex Morrison planning to kill off Damian.
    • Conceptually I think the idea of Mr.Bloom is cool regardless of who created him honestly he's someone I'd like to see more of because as of right now we don't have any real idea of who he is versus the Court of Owls who kind of fall flat once you take them out of Gotham.
    • Personally I'd like to see smaller scale stories rather than 6,10,12+ issue arcs with a focus on the rogues gallery. Why are they a threat? Why or how do they challenge Batman? I'd like to see more 2-4 part stories the idea being that with smaller stories the narrative is (hopefully) more concise which means the writer has to know exactly what they want to do rather than just mender on.

    Bingo and that at the end of the day is the problem I have with Duke and Harper above anything else. They aren't necessary and there's really nothing that they can add to the Bat Family (Besides some diversity). To return to previous points, Duke can't be Robin and Harper can't be Batgirl. You've already got two people in those roles and with the current storylines going on and continuity as it is now it wouldn't make any sense to replace either with a new character. Pre-Flashpoint with Tim the argument could be made that he'd run his course as Robin and was ready to move on to another level. You therefore had him become Red Robin and Damian took the mantle of Robin. Right now, Damian's not ready to be anything but Robin and i'd argue he's not even capable of being anything except Robin (For now at least). He's not even that much older than Duke (If he's older than Duke at all actually). Duke therefore has nowhere to go besides just being one more costumed ally for Batman. Harper's then the exact same way and her situation is actually somewhat worse because you've now got Cassandra and Stephanie back right alongside Barbara. The role of extra costumed ally wouldn't be a bad thing if the Family wasn't already packed as it is. On the male side they've barely got defined roles for Jason and Tim and on the female side Cassandra and Stephanie are old characters to the fans, but new in-universe and also don't have established spots yet. Had the reboot been different and you only had Bruce, Alfred, Barbara, and Dick that would be something else entirely. But it is what it is and the current setup works against both of Snyder's pets.

    Also agree with the smaller stories idea. Snyder likes to go big, which isn't a bad thing. I thought Zero Year was excellent, but not every story has to feel like some type of grand event.

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    Chronos96

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    @nathaniel_christopher: Exactly. I liked Zero year but to me they really did feel like separate stories and could have been read as such or the first part could have at least. Going back to how overloaded the bat family is on the fringes we the inc members Talon and Batwoman and Batwing who really haven't had any major roles recently as far as I recall. Next we have Dick,Jason, Tim, Damian and Duke and now Jean. Jason and Tim have been treated horribly while Dick, Damian and Duke seem to be ok. For the Girls we have Babs, Stephanie,Cassandra and Harper. Now don't get me wrong but in my opinion like you said above it be one thing if we Just had Bruce, Alfred Babs and Dick, but we have tons of characters who aren't used well or at all. The thing for me is I'd like to see them all have a role and have a distinct place in the mythos because I want to see things work out well for all the characters. Looking at them conservatively though you could argue that even Steph, Cass and Jean are unnecessary let alone Duke, Harper and even Kathy and Batwing. I know people love Jean, Cass and Steph and maybe one day they'll get a writer that can do them justice again but I feel what's more likely is things will go for the othere like they have with Steph how she's really only showed up in Catwoman.


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    Chronos96

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    Forgot to add one thing haha. I feel like comics in particular are in a weird position because you have to keep introducing new characters to keep things fresh or else things would stale. Going back to general writing they say a good writer isn't afraid to kill off characters but death loses it's shock factor in comics when you know they'll come back eventually. Furthermore different writers have different plans for different characters so it makes it hard to plan ahead not even dealing with editorial. I feel like Barry's death and Jason's mattered because people weren't sure they ever would come back now again they did eventually but that was decades after the fact.

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    Nathaniel_Christopher

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    @chronos96 said:

    Forgot to add one thing haha. I feel like comics in particular are in a weird position because you have to keep introducing new characters to keep things fresh or else things would stale. Going back to general writing they say a good writer isn't afraid to kill off characters but death loses it's shock factor in comics when you know they'll come back eventually. Furthermore different writers have different plans for different characters so it makes it hard to plan ahead not even dealing with editorial. I feel like Barry's death and Jason's mattered because people weren't sure they ever would come back now again they did eventually but that was decades after the fact.

    Yeah both of those deaths took place in a different time where you could kill off a character like that, have them stay dead, and then just move on from said character. Things like that don't happen anymore lol I think Hal Jordan and Oliver Queen may have been the most recent examples of DC doing something like that. In which case they went with what I like to call the Wally West formula. Having a legacy character take on the mantle of the deceased and actually take over the series as the main character. Bruce "died" in Final Crisis, but it doesn't really hold the same weight when the last page clearly shows him being alive somewhere and editorial doesn't even bother to pretend that he's not coming back, and then actually starts talking about the return story shortly afterwards.

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    Aahz

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    Pre-Flashpoint with Tim the argument could be made that he'd run his course as Robin and was ready to move on to another level. You therefore had him become Red Robin and Damian took the mantle of Robin. Right now, Damian's not ready to be anything but Robin and i'd argue he's not even capable of being anything except Robin (For now at least). He's not even that much older than Duke (If he's older than Duke at all actually).

    According to the current Comics Damian is 10, Ducke is 16 and Tim is also 16 (even if I think that based on the conitnuity it would make more sense it he was 17 or 18). Seriously i don't see Damian be something else than Robin untill he not aged a few years (so maybe around the age of 15 ) which will not happen any time soon and at this point Duke will be to old to be Robin.

    Btw. it looks as Harper and Steph will join the cast of Batgirl and in Stephs case, I think this could work on the long run. I would of course like to see her back in a book with Tim, but unfortunately he still has no solo book.

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    Nathaniel_Christopher

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    @aahz said:
    @nathaniel_christopher said:

    Pre-Flashpoint with Tim the argument could be made that he'd run his course as Robin and was ready to move on to another level. You therefore had him become Red Robin and Damian took the mantle of Robin. Right now, Damian's not ready to be anything but Robin and i'd argue he's not even capable of being anything except Robin (For now at least). He's not even that much older than Duke (If he's older than Duke at all actually).

    According to the current Comics Damian is 10, Ducke is 16 and Tim is also 16 (even if I think that based on the conitnuity it would make more sense it he was 17 or 18). Seriously i don't see Damian be something else than Robin untill he not aged a few years (so maybe around the age of 15 ) which will not happen any time soon and at this point Duke will be to old to be Robin.

    Btw. it looks as Harper and Steph will join the cast of Batgirl and in Stephs case, I think this could work on the long run. I would of course like to see her back in a book with Tim, but unfortunately he still has no solo book.

    Wow I didn't realize that the age gap was that large, though it does make sense seeing as there was a large timeskip after Zero Year. But yeah that just further emphasizes why Duke couldn't/shouldn't be Robin if Damian's still alive and well. Even if Damian wasn't and had stayed dead at 16 Duke wouldn't have a long run as Robin anyways. Dick, out of universe, was Robin the longest, into his 20s and college years, but ever since then I feel that the general idea at DC has been to avoid that. Going back to Tim having run his course, not only had he accomplished a lot and been through a lot as Robin, but he was hitting 18 or so by the time Damian popped up. (And that was after 19 or 20 years in the role of Robin out of universe). He was pretty much an adult at that point, so they took him out of that role and gave it to someone who was still a child. I don't think we'll ever have another Dick Grayson scenario where a young adult is filling that role. And even in-unverse, Post-Flashpoint, Dick started as Robin at 16 and moved on shortly after. Couldn't see how Duke would be any different.

    Which then just leaves Duke taking on another codename (Lark being the one on the table so far) in which case he's again just another costumed ally that isn't actually needed.

    Tim and Jason, and honestly Dick as well for that matter, should both be older than they currently are. Really there was nothing wrong with their ages Pre-Flashpoint, but they wanted Bruce to be younger so they just went ahead and made the others younger as well.

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    Aahz

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    #14  Edited By Aahz

    @nathaniel_christopher: Sorry but i have to correct you (traking down the ages of the Batfamily is kind of a hobby of mine, if you are inserted here you can find a longer text, that I'm planing to update somewhere in the next months, unfortunately I can't create new post in that thread for some reason).

    If we are ignoring Earth 2 (the original Golden Age Earth) were Dick keept the Robin identity his whole live, he never was Robin into his 20. When he originally became Nightwing in the Judas Contract and passed down the mantle to Jason he was only 19.

    When Damian appeared the first time Tim was officially still said to be 16 (even if it doesn't made much sense since he had is 16th Birthday before one year later), and the first time he was aid to be 17 was later in his Red Robin series and stayed at this age until flashpoint. Jason was pre flashpoint only two years older than Tim (even if imo 1 year or the same age would make more sense based on the original comics) and so was Probaly 19 in the end.

    In the new52 their ages were for along time not really clear but in B&RE it was now stated that Tim is only 16, and in RH/A they established that Jason died at 17 so he is probably around 19 now.

    But I have to add that I'm not really a fan of Tim beeing 16 and hope they age him up to 17 or 18 for several reasons:

    - for me it is wired that Tim started as Robin at younger age than Jason and Dick, and went all ready solo at an age were they just started as Robin

    - it's also wired that they increased the age gap between Tim and Jason despite the compressed time line, and the tendency to team them up

    - the rest of the Teen Titans are afaik also 17 so Tim as the leader just being 16 is also wired

    - I think he should be older than WAR-Kids he are all between 16 or 17 (or at least at the age of the older WAR-Kids), and especially he shouldn't be the same age as Duke

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    Nathaniel_Christopher

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    @aahz said:

    @nathaniel_christopher: Sorry but i have to correct you (traking down the ages of the Batfamily is kind of a hobby of mine, if you are inserted here you can find a longer text, that I'm planing to update somewhere in the next months, unfortunately I can't create new post in that thread for some reason).

    If we are ignoring Earth 2 (the original Golden Age Earth) were Dick keept the Robin identity his whole live, he never was Robin into his 20. When he originally became Nightwing in the Judas Contract and passed down the mantle to Jason he was only 19.

    When Damian appeared the first time Tim was officially still said to be 16 (even if it doesn't made much sense since he had is 16th Birthday before one year later), and the first time he was aid to be 17 was later in his Red Robin series and stayed at this age until flashpoint. Jason was pre flashpoint only two years older than Tim (even if imo 1 year or the same age would make more sense based on the original comics) and so was Probaly 19 in the end.

    In the new52 their ages were for along time not really clear but in B&RE it was now stated that Tim is only 16, and in RH/A they established that Jason died at 17 so he is probably around 19 now.

    But I have to add that I'm not really a fan of Tim beeing 16 and hope they age him up to 17 or 18 for several reasons:

    - for me it is wired that Tim started as Robin at younger age than Jason and Dick, and went all ready solo at an age were they just started as Robin

    - it's also wired that they increased the age gap between Tim and Jason despite the compressed time line, and the tendency to team them up

    - the rest of the Teen Titans are afaik also 17 so Tim as the leader just being 16 is also wired

    - I think he should be older than WAR-Kids he are all between 16 or 17 (or at least at the age of the older WAR-Kids), and especially he shouldn't be the same age as Duke

    Well I was counting Pre and Post Crisis in terms of Dick's time as Robin, so the Golden Age still counts. I think that the Post-Crisis might've been retconned in Dixon's run, because I vaguely remember a timeline in his Nightwing Year One TPB that stated Dick was Robin until he was like 21, but I must have remembered that one wrong.

    For Tim I said he was "hitting 18 or so" and by that I didn't mean he was 18 in Damian's first appearance, but was around that age by the time Damian was taking the Robin mantle from him. By the end he was old enough to be in college so yeah he was probably 19 or so.

    Either way you have both characters moving on from being Robin around the age of 18 in the Post Crisis universe, with only Dick sticking around a little longer afterwards and even longer in the Golden Age. Jason of course died and therefore didn't have the opportunity to stick around, but even if he had and had been accepted by the fanbase I doubt that DC would've had him still being Robin after he turned 18 anyways. So just to wrap this part of the discussion up lol my main thing with Duke being 16 is just that it doesn't make it all that likely that he'd even be Robin for long if Snyder did find some way to give him the title.

    Nice timeline by the way, definitely keep it up to date because its good for us fans to have something like that we can refer to on a regular basis.

    I was honestly operating under the assumption that Duke and the other "robins" were all younger than they are. With them being 16 or so it is kind of weird that they're the same age as Tim, though that in itself doesn't make them his equal.

    Only way I see them making it a point to age Tim is if he gets his own series again.

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    Aahz

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    #16  Edited By Aahz

    @nathaniel_christopher:

    But even in the Golden age you never had a Dick as robin in his 20s. When the Golden Age ended (which is in the case of batman not really clear) Dick was still written as a teenager (probably around 15 or 16). And in the later story that showed him as grown up Robin he was probably already in his 40s (not shure I haven't read this many of this comics).

    But Dick as anyway one most contradicting timelines, I have actually the impression that there were two timelines the writers used for him a "New Teen Titans-timeline" that was used by Marv Wolfman and Devlin Grayson were he became Robin at the age of 8, and a "Batman-timeline" franchise were using were he became Robin at the age of 12 (which is imo more consistent with the comics).

    According to the comics pre new 52 Tim became Red Robin he was 17 he didn't became 18 before flash point.

    The "We are Robin"-Kids had all short profiles in issue #4 of their series, according to this Duke and Riko are 16 and the others 17. So they are roughly the same age as Tim, Steph (17 according to Batman Eternal) and probably Harper Row and Cass (I have sofar no real clue about their ages), which makes this generation very crowded.

    Btw. Maps from Gotham Academy is also allready 14 (the others are 15 with exception of Keyle how is also 16), which makes it kind of strange that they are using her as a love interest for Damian.

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    Nathaniel_Christopher

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    @aahz said:

    @nathaniel_christopher:

    But even in the Golden age you never had a Dick as robin in his 20s. When the Golden Age ended (which is in the case of batman not really clear) Dick was still written as a teenager (probably around 15 or 16). And in the later story that showed him as grown up Robin he was probably already in his 40s (not shure I haven't read this many of this comics).

    But Dick as anyway one most contradicting timelines, I have actually the impression that there were two timelines the writers used for him a "New Teen Titans-timeline" that was used by Marv Wolfman and Devlin Grayson were he became Robin at the age of 8, and a "Batman-timeline" franchise were using were he became Robin at the age of 12 (which is imo more consistent with the comics).

    According to the comics pre new 52 Tim became Red Robin he was 17 he didn't became 18 before flash point.

    The "We are Robin"-Kids had all short profiles in issue #4 of their series, according to this Duke and Riko are 16 and the others 17. So they are roughly the same age as Tim, Steph (17 according to Batman Eternal) and probably Harper Row and Cass (I have sofar no real clue about their ages), which makes this generation very crowded.

    Btw. Maps from Gotham Academy is also allready 14 (the others are 15 with exception of Keyle how is also 16), which makes it kind of strange that they are using her as a love interest for Damian.

    Earth 2 Dick Grayson (Golden Age Dick Grayson) was Robin well into adulthood. I think 40 is pushing it, but 20 or 40 it doesn't matter as thats still after 18 which is the point i'm making and he was clearly over 18, as he became a partner in a law firm, meaning that he was done with college.

    I remember in Red Robin, Pre-Flashpoint, they stated Tim was 17 but that honestly was silly and made no sense. It doesn't actually line up with the timeline of events that took place in that universe at all. With events like No Man's Land, Knightfall, One Year later, and a variety of others Tim should actually have been pushing 20.

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    Aahz

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    #18  Edited By Aahz

    @nathaniel_christopher said:

    Earth 2 Dick Grayson (Golden Age Dick Grayson) was Robin well into adulthood. I think 40 is pushing it, but 20 or 40 it doesn't matter as thats still after 18 which is the point i'm making and he was clearly over 18, as he became a partner in a law firm, meaning that he was done with college.

    Not really his birthday was set to the year 1928 and he comics were all set in the 70s or 80s. And of course he was also Robin his 20s, but there are afaik no comics from this era.

    @nathaniel_christopher said:

    I remember in Red Robin, Pre-Flashpoint, they stated Tim was 17 but that honestly was silly and made no sense. It doesn't actually line up with the timeline of events that took place in that universe at all. With events like No Man's Land, Knightfall, One Year later, and a variety of others Tim should actually have been pushing 20.

    How old he should have been based on the Timeline is a different story...

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    Nathaniel_Christopher

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    @aahz said:
    @nathaniel_christopher said:

    Earth 2 Dick Grayson (Golden Age Dick Grayson) was Robin well into adulthood. I think 40 is pushing it, but 20 or 40 it doesn't matter as thats still after 18 which is the point i'm making and he was clearly over 18, as he became a partner in a law firm, meaning that he was done with college.

    Not really his birthday was set to the year 1928 and he comics were all set in the 70s or 80s. And of course he was also Robin his 20s, but there are afaik no comics from this era.

    @nathaniel_christopher said:

    I remember in Red Robin, Pre-Flashpoint, they stated Tim was 17 but that honestly was silly and made no sense. It doesn't actually line up with the timeline of events that took place in that universe at all. With events like No Man's Land, Knightfall, One Year later, and a variety of others Tim should actually have been pushing 20.

    How old he should have been based on the Timeline is a different story...

    So he was Robin in his 20s then, which is the point that I made.

    I go based on the timeline for Tim Drake, as thats what actually makes sense.

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    #20  Edited By Aahz

    I go based on the timeline for Tim Drake, as thats what actually makes sense.

    It's basically the question if you base ages line on how much time passes by in the stories or the passed on how much the characters aged (or use official DC timeliness which make imo even less sense). It has both advantages and disadvantages. Here made somebody a list based on the passed time, he ends up with Tim being 21 at the end. Problem is that Tim ends up being older than Cassandra and being adult in stories where was written as a minor.

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    Nathaniel_Christopher

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    @aahz said:
    @nathaniel_christopher said:

    I go based on the timeline for Tim Drake, as thats what actually makes sense.

    It's basically the question if you base ages line on how much time passes by in the stories or the passed on how much the characters aged (or use official DC timeliness which make imo even less sense). It has both advantages and disadvantages. Here made somebody a list based on the passed time, he ends up with Tim being 21 at the end. Problem is that Tim ends up being older than Cassandra and being adult in stories where was written as a minor.

    I base it on the time that passes and believe writers should do the same. Otherwise it becomes inconsistent. But that's pretty much how things go in both Marvel and DC, hence you have some characters like the Richards kids remaining children forever while for others like Jubilee and Kitty they go from teens to young adults. It's also compounded by various writers wanting characters like Batman to constantly remain a certain age.

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    lamdaddy20

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    There is no point to those characters

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    Nathaniel_Christopher

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    Currently re-reading my Graveyard Shift TPB and I just realized (Must've always just brushed past it previously) that Harper's setup with Batman isn't really even that different from Tim Drake's Pre-Flashpoint. Damian (Jason ) dies, Harper (Tim) notices that Batman is becoming darker and more violent and confronts him about it to get him to stop. Only major difference is that the immediate story doesn't end with Harper joining the Bat Family right away like it did with Tim Drake.

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    entropy_aegis

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    @nathaniel_christopher: Take Tim,split him in two,make one part a girl and the other Black and you have Harper and Duke.

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    @nathaniel_christopher: Take Tim,split him in two,make one part a girl and the other Black and you have Harper and Duke.

    Actually most of the we are Robin Kids aren't that unique

    • Duke is similar to Tim
    • Dre is similar to Jason
    • Dax is similar to the new 52 Roy
    • Riko is similar to Maps
    • Izzy reminds me of Rene Montoya

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