@MuyJingo: FYI - I never said I respected CB himself, just the fact that he seems pretty knowledgeable. That is as far as it goes, however. I have very little respect for anyone who resorts to insulting and belittling comments in order to get their points across... which CB tends to do a lot it seems.

@Omnicrono: No, cool, I agree, and I enjoyed your bolg post :)

@MuyJingo said:

agree with you about CB, I respect him and he does know his stuff. But, I don't think he is mature enough (and IIRC he is in high school) to argue his point sometimes. He accuses people of cherrypicking feats and dismissing PIS/CIS stories, yet that's exactly what he does when it comes to Superman. One idiot writer showed Superman as being able to see to the end of the universe, which there was no other example of, yet he then takes that as proof as to the level of his power....

.........high school? I'm in my final year of university. Far be it for me to take offense over the judgement of some random guy on the internet, but I feel pretty secure about my level of maturity regarding the all-important topic of Superman vs Batman ---- especially when criticism of said maturity comes from someone who thinks the Insider Suit could beat Iron Man. I have little interest in the complaints of someone whose arguments constantly betray the fact that he has no clue what he's talking about, as has been noted by many, many users in practically every thread where you argue for Batman winning against opponents and scenarios he cannot possibly beat. Not sure whether I've said this already somewhere else, but I deplore the kind of Batman fan who makes the rest of the Batman fans look bad with their overblown, exaggerated version of Batman's capabilities. The resentment hate against Batman on the battle forums always annoys me (when people say Batman gets stomped and when questioned, have no reason for that opinion other than that they hate overzealous and ignorant Batman fans as if they represent the character's fandom as a whole), but honestly.......after that argument you made about how Batman is a better engineer than a guy who built a weapon to destroy a nigh-omnipotent planet-roasting abstract being in less than a week, I can see where it comes from.

If it really means that much to you, I hereby concede that Batman beat Superman in TDKR. That one's all yours.

...and that's all I ever asked for. And because you said it, that must make it true.

@Reignmaker said:

...and that's all I ever asked for. And because you said it, that must make it true.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Mine isn't any better than yours.

It's a corny cliche, but that's really how it is.

@MuyJingo said:

@Omnicrono: No, cool, I agree, and I enjoyed your bolg post :)

Hey, thanks! I enjoyed yours as well, man. I think you made some very reasonable/plausible points. :)

@CitizenBane: Hey, my apologies. I think I assumed you were in high school because I think you referred to having to do homework once. I'm not from the US, although I live here now, but in my country homework only refers to stuff from highschool or elementary. There is no homework at university, at least it isn't referred to as homework. That's on me, and I apologize. I meant no offence by it.

As for the rest of your post, well that is where I would argue you show some immaturity. You are paraphrasing and misrepresenting the facts. I consider anyone who does that in a debate immature, even if they are 60. Many people agreed with me, most of your arguments were based on PIS/CIS, and relied on single, unique examples of superman exhibiting a power significantly over what he normally does.

Hell, I wrote a post showing why it was plausible that Batman could beat superman, which was later on supported by scans with Batman feats, and you couldn't even swallow that.

I don't blow up Batman to stuff he isn't capable of. I also don't like Batman fans who do that. It just so happens that Batman is capable of beating Superman, and has done so more than once. When it is a large plot point in the story and the animated adaptation spells it out for you, and you can't accept it, that's your issue, not anyone elses.

@MuyJingo said:

@CitizenBane: Hey, my apologies. I think I assumed you were in high school because I think you referred to having to do homework once. I'm not from the US, although I live here now, but in my country homework only refers to stuff from highschool or elementary. There is no homework at university, at least it isn't referred to as homework. That's on me, and I apologize. I meant no offence by it.

As for the rest of your post, well that is where I would argue you show some immaturity. You are paraphrasing and misrepresenting the facts. I consider anyone who does that in a debate immature, even if they are 60. Many people agreed with me, most of your arguments were based on PIS/CIS, and relied on single, unique examples of superman exhibiting a power significantly over what he normally does.

Hell, I wrote a post showing why it was plausible that Batman could beat superman, which was later on supported by scans with Batman feats, and you couldn't even swallow that.

I don't blow up Batman to stuff he isn't capable of. I also don't like Batman fans who do that. It just so happens that Batman is capable of beating Superman, and has done so more than once. When it is a large plot point in the story and the animated adaptation spells it out for you, and you can't accept it, that's your issue, not anyone elses.

M'kay.

Darling, I was the star once again.

Ahh, cool, CB finally gets it. All my hard work not in vain. What a nice feeling.

@CitizenBane said:

@MuyJingo said:

agree with you about CB, I respect him and he does know his stuff. But, I don't think he is mature enough (and IIRC he is in high school) to argue his point sometimes. He accuses people of cherrypicking feats and dismissing PIS/CIS stories, yet that's exactly what he does when it comes to Superman. One idiot writer showed Superman as being able to see to the end of the universe, which there was no other example of, yet he then takes that as proof as to the level of his power....

.........high school? I'm in my final year of university. Far be it for me to take offense over the judgement of some random guy on the internet, but I feel pretty secure about my level of maturity regarding the all-important topic of Superman vs Batman ---- especially when criticism of said maturity comes from someone who thinks the Insider Suit could beat Iron Man. I have little interest in the complaints of someone whose arguments constantly betray the fact that he has no clue what he's talking about, as has been noted by many, many users in practically every thread where you argue for Batman winning against opponents and scenarios he cannot possibly beat. Not sure whether I've said this already somewhere else, but I deplore the kind of Batman fan who makes the rest of the Batman fans look bad with their overblown, exaggerated version of Batman's capabilities. The resentment hate against Batman on the battle forums always annoys me (when people say Batman gets stomped and when questioned, have no reason for that opinion other than that they hate overzealous and ignorant Batman fans as if they represent the character's fandom as a whole), but honestly.......after that argument you made about how Batman is a better engineer than a guy who built a weapon to destroy a nigh-omnipotent planet-roasting abstract being in less than a week, I can see where it comes from.

If it really means that much to you, I hereby concede that Batman beat Superman in TDKR. That one's all yours.

I know you were not specifically addressing me, CB, but let me ask you some things:

Is it really worth deploring or condemning anyone (Batman fan or no) when it comes to his or her opinion regarding fictional characters, stories, or debates? You yourself suggested that it is not worth taking offense over what some random guy on the internet says about you, and I agree with that, but that doesn't change the fact that we can still offend someone whether we are trying to or not. People's feelings do matter.

On that same token, is it right to belittle or berate someone - at any time, under any circumstance - simply because you might strongly disagree with his opinion? (keeping in mind that you yourself have rightly stated that, on this forum, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and that yours isn't better than anyone else's)

@Reignmaker said:

Oh no, not the whole "it's not cannon" argument! Have mercy... DC has rewritten its "cannon" so many times, it's quite pointless to pick and choose what you want to follow as gospel. Besides we're just talking about whether he won for purposes of this story. And he did.

Sure then by that logic All-Star Batman is also cannon.

Okay Batman won geez@Omnicrono said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Omnicrono said:

@entropy_aegis said:

There were times in the fight where Supes stopped to talk and reason when he had the advantage,he wasn't even giving 20% of his power to the fight at hand,no Batman did not win.

I think perhaps you are being stubborn.

Both Superman and Batman were at a disadvantage in several ways, so your point is essentially a wash in my opinion.

Bruce himself wasn't anywhere near 100 percent after his bout with Joker. Not to mention he was like 55-60 years old and most certainly not in his prime during this story, whereas age was not a factor for Superman.

There were times when Bruce also stopped to talk... in particular, at the end when he held a Kryptonite-soaked Superman's life in his hands but didn't kill him.

Batman won. That was always a major part of the story and why it is such a great one. Batman beat Superman not using super powers alone, but primarily using strategy and resourcefulness. Accept it and move on.

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/citizenbane/superman-vs-batman/87-79268/

CitizenBane knows his stuff, but he is not the be-all-end-all deciding factor of comic book debates. I don't care who he is or how many followers he has. I've already debated with him on this issue to some extent.

A) I'll take his opinion over yours any day of the week.

B) I've read every single Superman/Batman encounter myself so I dont need anyone to make my decision for me,I only posted the link to his blog because this particular topic had already been discussed to the death there.

C) He actually left out 2 Superman vs Batman fights,one from the Superman/Batman where Kal would've annihilated him had Bekka not shown up and the other from Lex Luthor:Man of Steel where Superman completely stomped him.

But I guess you're one of those guys who ignores writing,context,characterization and just goes for the end result? surely then random SWAT sniper> Batman going by the Long Halloween.

@entropy_aegis said:

@Reignmaker said:

Oh no, not the whole "it's not cannon" argument! Have mercy... DC has rewritten its "cannon" so many times, it's quite pointless to pick and choose what you want to follow as gospel. Besides we're just talking about whether he won for purposes of this story. And he did.

Sure then by that logic All-Star Batman is also cannon.

Okay Batman won geez@Omnicrono said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Omnicrono said:

@entropy_aegis said:

There were times in the fight where Supes stopped to talk and reason when he had the advantage,he wasn't even giving 20% of his power to the fight at hand,no Batman did not win.

I think perhaps you are being stubborn.

Both Superman and Batman were at a disadvantage in several ways, so your point is essentially a wash in my opinion.

Bruce himself wasn't anywhere near 100 percent after his bout with Joker. Not to mention he was like 55-60 years old and most certainly not in his prime during this story, whereas age was not a factor for Superman.

There were times when Bruce also stopped to talk... in particular, at the end when he held a Kryptonite-soaked Superman's life in his hands but didn't kill him.

Batman won. That was always a major part of the story and why it is such a great one. Batman beat Superman not using super powers alone, but primarily using strategy and resourcefulness. Accept it and move on.

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/citizenbane/superman-vs-batman/87-79268/

CitizenBane knows his stuff, but he is not the be-all-end-all deciding factor of comic book debates. I don't care who he is or how many followers he has. I've already debated with him on this issue to some extent.

A) I'll take his opinion over yours any day of the week.

B) I've read every single Superman/Batman encounter myself so I dont need anyone to make my decision for me,I only posted the link to his blog because this particular topic had already been discussed to the death there.

C) He actually left out 2 Superman vs Batman fights,one from the Superman/Batman where Kal would've annihilated him had Bekka not shown up and the other from Lex Luthor:Man of Steel where Superman completely stomped him.

But I guess you're one of those guys who ignores writing,context,characterization and just goes for the end result? surely then random SWAT sniper> Batman going by the Long Halloween.

A & B) Good for you. Don't stop being a critical thinker.

The Rest of Your Comments) This is not a Battle Thread and, quite honestly, I don't feel like getting into this any more than I already have here. If you want to debate with me about Superman Vs Batman, feel free to PM me.

As to your final comment... Are you one of those guys who makes snap-judgments about other people, or are you simply the kind of person that belittles others because it makes you feel better about yourself and your arguments? I trust your answer is "no" on both accounts.

this movie was great! both parts! never read the comic but might after watching this. even though i was confused at joker bursting to flames. Was that his plan of did batman do that somehow with his spit? I'm guessing it was Joker since he wanted the police to think batman crossed the line and there is no way of proving it wasn't him.

Watched both parts yesterday. WOW just WOW. Truly epic. I remember getting the graphic novel when i was like 12, and i loved it. It's one of the only batman stories i go back and re-read. I actually can't decide which i love more, the book or the film. I think it should have been just one major epic film instead of two parts. I'd have loved it to have got a small cinema release as is was that good, but considering the market nowadays, and with The Dark Knight Rises taking lots from it, it wouldn't have been worth it.

I'd like the Dark Knight Strikes Again to be done (I do actually like that story), but i'm fine with dc not doing it, as with the way returns ends, it doesn't really need one.

Really want both the costumes signals as t-shirts though. Never wanted them before, only seeing it in this film makes me want them bad, especially the black signal.

@neale7 said:

I'd like the Dark Knight Strikes Again to be done (I do actually like that story), but i'm fine with dc not doing it, as with the way returns ends, it doesn't really need one.

i hate the dark knight strikes again,its not really a follow up,may be if they rewrite somethings,iespecially hate what he did to dick(also in all star batman)

as for the film i watched 5 times tdk retuns part 1 and 2,i like it better than the book :D

@Nightwing4 said:

Batman won the fight. Simple minded people think of the fight as the punching through walls and whatnot. That's Superman's "fight." The reality is that Bruce beat Clark on the battlefield of the mind way before the "fight" even happened. It came down to what they were each WILLING TO DO. How far they would go. Bruce knew he had Clark beat there all along.

On another note, it was great to see Ollie. Though from what I've read, was he not supposed to get a cybernetic arm in the end?

Irregardless, I heavily enjoyed the film.

@sumafatrider:

I know there's alot of hate for the dark knight strikes again. Its either the art or the story that people have a problem with. I like both. I know batman isn't in it very much, but his presence is felt throughout the book i think.

SPOILERS (for anyone who hasn't read it):

I love how Carrie and the team break out flash and the atom. Superman realising batman was right. Bald Bruce Wayne lol. The small appearance by Hal at the end.

END OF SPOILERS.

Yeah i'm still not sold on how he transformed Dick. Just seems so unlike him. Something major must've happened between him and Bruce between Dark knight returns and Dark knight strikes again, for Dick to turn out the way he did. In the Dark knight Returns, Gordon asks Bruce if he's spoke to him, in which Bruce replies not in a long time. Bruce then again mentions Dick, in that it was Dick who named it the batmobile. I get the feeling that he misses him, but Bruce being Bruce, won't say sorry or make the first move towards his family.

But in Dark knight strikes again, he has total no remorse for him. Maybe Bruce expected better of him and found out about the transformation during the gap in the stories.

I hope they eventually release the film as just one film dvd. Its gonna be annoying to end part 1, have to get up, take it out the player, then put part 2 in. That makes me sound lazy lol.

I saw both parts and I gotta say...they're one of the best Batman films I seen in a while. Saw it on movie2k btw.

Cant wait to watch them, im living in Europe though, hope it comes out here!

@FatihBATMAN: You can watch them online.

where? @neale7 :O

@FatihBATMAN: Part 1: http://animeflavor.com/node/42838

Part 2: http://animeflavor.com/cartoon/batman-dark-knight-returns-part-2

Enjoy :-D

oh cool, but isnt there someway one can buy it? to support though..

@FatihBATMAN: Itunes might have it.

After finally watching both parts,I have to say it was spectacular.It was very well done,I think it was a good decision to split it in two parts.The animation was good all the voices where well done (I mean Robocop as Batman does it get much better than that?) and they where just right.Best DC/Batman animated feature that has been made so far.They MUST do more we NEED a Killing Joke,Long Halloween,Knightfall and other key Batman stories done like this.Because this just set the bar higher and does show how well they can make these.There is no excuse not to make more now.

Not much to say except that this was the best animated film that I've watched so far.

@neale7 said:

@FatihBATMAN: Itunes might have it.

damit in Europe they dont have it..

@MuyJingo: Please watch the swearing. Also calling people fanboys goes nowhere

It was a great movie. The way Joker and Batman settled things should of been like what happened in Death in the Family.