The Dark Knight Returns did more harm than good

#1 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll start off by saying I hate this book. Is it well written for the most part? Yes. Is it overrated and damaging in the long run? God yes. The stories with the mutants and Dent were good, but the Joker story was only ok, and any time Miller writes Superman a puppy dies. The "edgy, deep" inclusion of the talking political heads is unbelievably tacky, as it serves no purpose to advance and develop the story, or to any real relevancy at all. Sadly, this book is held in high regard, and many think that it was that hack Miller who brought Batman out of camp, even though it was Denny O' Neil who did that years before. Also, the "Bat-god" in this book is just a pyschopathic Marv stand in, who is sadly mistaken for Batman by writers nowadays. The ill-effect it had on Superman is insurmountable, especially since it added the ultimate fuel to the fire for anti-Superman idiots. It also inspred numerous attempts at "dark" storytelling, despite the fact that even this book didn't do that very well itself, it just had awful murky and surreal looking art. This ended up leading to the 90s/Liefeld era......yay?

#2 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

This book cause the start of Supes popularity's downfall...

#3 Posted by batshrine (969 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you for acknowledging the fact that it was Denny O'Neil that brought up our modern view of Batman and not Frank Miller!

#4 Posted by ratman19 (525 posts) - - Show Bio

ya this book was overrated and it did bring about supes downfall. but didnt the death of superman come out in the 80's to. i watched a documentary on it and it was really the only comic book to ever get that much attention. and one of the only comics that had people waiting in lines to get it.

#5 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

death of superman was 90s. this book is overrated pig's wallow. knightfall is far better

#6 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

FAIL.

Batman's popularity was at its all time low in 1985. This book saved Batman.

#7 Posted by joshmightbe (24623 posts) - - Show Bio

While I doubt the book deserves all the praise it got I don't think it is the reason for Superman's lower popularity, that was mostly due to bad writers who despite having a job that requires a good imagination can't think of an interesting story to a flying guy who shoots eye lasers. Superman should be the easiest character to come up with something interesting for but no a bunch of lazy ass writers stand around scratching their asses asking what could possibly be done with a dude who can do almost anything. As proof go check out Red Son or Kingdom Come or All Star and see what good writers can do with him and ignore the dipshit writers who are afraid of high powered characters because they aren't creative enough to figure out what to do them.

#8 Edited by SavageDragon (2248 posts) - - Show Bio

This isn't my favorite Batman story by any stretch of the imagination. I prefer Long Halloween and Dark Victory, The black Mirror, The Black Glove and Hush and Knightfall above DKR. That being said it is still a monumental book and for the time an achievement in story telling. Im not a fan of the super over crowded panels brimming with text but the story is epic and it is still an important book. Being overrated is such a personal preference because to me Watchmen is overrated too but I still consider it a great book and an important one as well.

#9 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

CHUCK DIXON!!!!

#10 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone else tired of these "my d*ck is small, I blame Batman" threads? They are getting boring.

#11 Posted by entropy_aegis (14297 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Anyone else tired of these "my d*ck is small, I blame Batman" threads? They are getting boring.

Raises hand.

Online
#12 Posted by YMCMB (160 posts) - - Show Bio

Kinda weird how it seems like a lot of people went from worshiping this book to hating it within the last few years...whatever. I don't really think it did that much harm, aside from making a lot of people suddenly view Superman as Superdouche. It's one of the classic Batman stories that contributed a lot to the Batman mythos as we know them today. And this book has some of both Batman and Superman's best lines....ever. "We must not remind them that giants walk the Earth."

#13 Posted by hoole100 (32 posts) - - Show Bio

I read this thread and lol'd because i just came across a different thread praising Dark Knight Strikes Again.

Did you guys get the books confused? lol

By now you guys should know what your getting into when reading a Miller. Just like you know what your getting when your reading a Morrison or a Johns or a Snyder.

#14 Posted by vernierhawk001 (533 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not on this book's bandwagon, either

#15 Posted by ComicStooge (12014 posts) - - Show Bio

The book basically ressurected Batman, in terms of popularity.

#16 Posted by cosmo111687 (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that there's a backlash against The Dark Knight Returns because the Batman mythos and it's audience have matured enormously since it was written and Frank Miller is now better known for being a complete racist. Dark Knight Returns has some great elements going for it, not least of which is the art (still one of the most iconic images in the Batman mythos is Batman leaping before the flash of lightning). But it's a really, really dumb story. The leader of the mutants is completely one-dimensional, the Batmobile is turned into a giant tank that's really good at crushin', and the final battle between Batman and Superman involves Batman wielding a giant gun (yes, a gun - you know "the weapon of the enemy"), charged by the energy of Gotham (you know, the place he's sworn to protect) and plugged into the street lamp, under which his parents were killed (do I have to stress how significant that location is in building his notion that guns are essentially evil), aimed at Superman (the personification of the innate, idealistic nature of superheroes that continues to make them inspiring and more than just escapism). And, in the end, what is Miller's final prescription for the sick and corrupt world in Dark Knight Returns? Batman must give his mantle, train an army, and become a warlord. Great message there, Miller. Great message.

#17 Posted by hoole100 (32 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmo111687 said:

I think that there's a backlash against The Dark Knight Returns because the Batman mythos and it's audience have matured enormously since it was written and Frank Miller is now better known for being a complete racist. Dark Knight Returns has some great elements going for it, not least of which is the art (still one of the most iconic images in the Batman mythos is Batman leaping before the flash of lightning). But it's a really, really dumb story. The leader of the mutants is completely one-dimensional, the Batmobile is turned into a giant tank that's really good at crushin', and the final battle between Batman and Superman involves Batman wielding a giant gun (yes, a gun - you know "the weapon of the enemy"), charged by the energy of Gotham (you know, the place he's sworn to protect) and plugged into the street lamp, under which his parents were killed (do I have to stress how significant that location is in building his notion that guns are essentially evil), aimed at Superman (the personification of the innate, idealistic nature of superheroes that continues to make them inspiring and more than just escapism). And, in the end, what is Miller's final prescription for the sick and corrupt world in Dark Knight Returns? Batman must give his mantle, train an army, and become a warlord. Great message there, Miller. Great message.

Ddoesn't really differ much from what Morrison is doing in Batman Inc.

#18 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol. Morrison is doing the same in Inc....this book is a classic. No matter how much you try and deny it, it's better than the shit Morrison writes.

#19 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

Cant Batman just retire and let other person became Batman?, Rises did it and i loved the scene, Batman Beyond did it and i loved that cartoon.

Also i mean, didnt this thing was what made people belive Batman was insane?

#20 Posted by Wolfrazer (6069 posts) - - Show Bio
@DeathpooltheT1000:  Thing is theres a big problem, writers/fans don't want anyone else to be Batman they only want Bruce to be him.
Online
#21 Posted by Thorion88 (310 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Anyone else tired of these "my d*ck is small, I blame Batman" threads? They are getting boring.

Raises hand.

I'm with these guys, these kindof threads are old and played out.

#22 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer: Terry won a bunch of fans as Batman, the main reason, it was an alternate universe, yes i dont want Bruce retires in the main continuity, but making a new one where Bruce retires could be interesting, besides this mean Bruce is still Batman and they let other guy be Batman.

#23 Posted by TheCheeseStabber (7767 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

Anyone else tired of these "my d*ck is small, I blame Batman" threads? They are getting boring.

Raises hand.

Raises his other hand.

Though I admit, I don't like the book that much but nor do I think it's the reason for all of Supermans unpopularity

#24 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14587 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCheeseStabber said:

Though I admit, I don't like the book that much but nor do I think it's the reason for all of Supermans unpopularity

exacly, but I do not know why he is so unpopular he is not a jerk at all.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.