When this topic comes up I notice two schools of thought, both of which are equally wrong:

"Batman has beaten Superman before so he isn't that big a deal" (you'd be surprised how often I see this); or

"I hate Batman because DC writes him as an unstoppable genius perfect badass Batgod and to keep that image they write stories where he humiliates other characters like Superman, god how I hate Batman and his fanboys"

Two points: Batman has never, and I do mean never, beaten Superman in canon content. Even with prep, his chances of beating Superman are not exactly ideal. To that end, I've compiled a list of all their encounters in both canon and non canon material. I'm pretty sure this is every fight they've ever had, but there might be one or two that I missed. This is mainly so people can shut up about Batgod beating Superman or Superman being a loser because Batman has supposedly beaten him based on one or two out of context scans they've seen floating around on the internet.

Note: I am not doing this because I hate Batman. Far from it, I love Batman. Nor am I doing this to uphold Superman's honor or anything that pointless, anyone with common sense should know that Batman isn't beating Superman anytime soon. This is just to put all the facts out in the open.

Post-Crisis skirmishes between Superman and Batman:

Batman #428

Batman's trying to bring the Joker to justice for beating Jason to death and blowing him and his mother up, but Joker was conferred diplomatic immunity by Iran (don't ask), so Superman's telling him to calm down since there's nothing he can do. Batman gets angry, and...

End result: Batman punches Superman and is saved from being Oracle before Oracle because Superman rolled with the punch. Advantage Kal-El.

The Dark Knight Returns (non canon)

The Superman of the TDKR universe is considerably weaker than the New Earth version (he was almost killed by a nuke). A fight where Superman is holding back considerably, exposed to kryptonite courtesy of Green Arrow, and more concerned about Batman's health than his own, ends with Superman holding Batman's body after he suffers a near fatal heart attack.

End result: Note how Batman claims that he's "the one man who beat you". Batman can claim whatever he wants. Even with one-sided prep and backup, the fight didn't end with him holding Superman's seemingly dead body, did it? Advantage Kal-El.

JLA #44

The infamous Tower of Babel incident, where Ra's al Ghul steals Batman's contingency plans for bringing down the JLA and employs them against the various members. Turns out Batman's plan for taking down a rogue Superman was a specially engineered form of red kryptonite that wreaked havoc with Superman's ability to metabolize sunlight.

End result: This is probably the only canon incident that could be used to claim any kind of win for Batman over Superman. And it's not even a direct encounter. A lot of people claim that since Ra's could easily pull this off, Batman should also be able to. Couple of points regarding that:

• Ra's has resources that dwarf Batman's. In The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul he told Tim Drake that comparing the Wayne fortune to his own wealth would be akin to comparing a drop of water to the ocean or something along those lines. He also has an army at his beck and call that he can deploy to achieve his desired effect. It would be much easier for Ra's to do something like this than it would be for Batman.
• Batman is a member of the League, and thus under constant scrutiny from the people he's plotting against. Ra's operates in the shadows, he does not have to worry about Superman finding out about what he's up to. Especially since he's not even a League villain.

I guess if you stretch a little, Batman is potentially capable of this. Very well, advantage Batman.

The Dark Knight Strikes Again (non canon)

That image of Batman punching Superman in The Dark Knight Returns is spammed mercilessly on the battle forums despite the fact that Batman didn't even win. He actually fought Superman and won in the sequel to TDKR. This example isn't as well known as TDKR because TDKSA sucks the big one. Seriously, it is unbelievably bad. But anyway:

End result: With the help of the Flash, the Atom, Green Arrow and years of prep, Batman manages to defeat Superman in a direct encounter. Even though Superman just wanted to talk. Still, this is the only instance of Batman ever beating Superman in any published content, but it's not canon.

Batman #612

Probably the most famous fight between the two. Or given that the only image from this fight that ever sees the light of day is the one where Batman punches Superman, it's probably the most famous fight between the two that no one bothers actually reading before posting "LOL SUPERMAN GOT PUNCHED OUT BY BATMAN, SO HULK SMASH PUNY KRYPTONIAN".

End result: First and foremost, this was written by Jeph Loeb. 90% of the things Jeph Loeb writes require a liberal suspension of disbelief, even for comics. He thinks a tiny piece of kryptonite stuck in a ring is enough to lower Superman's durability to the point where Batman can make him bleed. Why Superman even gave Batman that ring, I'll never be able to figure out. If he ever actually went rogue, a kryptonite ring is not going to stop him from simply nuking Bruce with his heat vision. But ok, I'll play along. Note three things: that Batman himself says that if Superman wanted he could kill him with superspeed, that Batman himself says that if he continually punches Superman every bone in his hand will shatter, and that Batman himself says that Superman is holding back as much as he can while fighting Ivy's control. Even so, after hitting Kal with all the electricity in Metropolis, the battle still comes down to Catwoman putting Lois in danger, forcing Superman to break Ivy's control and save her instead of beating Batman to death with a car. Look at that scan. If Catwoman had been a few seconds late, Superman would have brought a car weighing several tons down on Bruce's head, and exactly what could he possibly do about that? Advantage Kal-El.

Superman: Red Son (non canon)

Another Elseworlds story (and a really good one at that). If you haven't read this, you should.

End result: Batman tying up Wonder Woman is ludicrous in itself, which is probably why it happens off-panel. Batman's prep in this situation isn't really his own, the idea of red solar lamps came from Lex Luthor. Batman just provided the venue. Anyway, he defeats a powerless Superman until Wonder Woman summons all her strength to snap the lasso and eliminate the lamps, restoring Superman to full power. Faced with Superman who actually has his powers, Batman quickly decides that suicide via explosion is the most prudent option available to him. Advantage Kal-El.

Superman/Batman #2

The first of a series of fights between the two in this series. Here Superman and Batman fight an alternate future version of Superman. I've included this because technically, it's still Superman vs Batman in canon content.

End result: Evil Supes backhands Batman and is about to throw a car at him, something Bruce a) cannot do anything about, and b) cannot survive. He runs out of time before that happens and fades away to his own timeline. Advantage evil Kal-El.

Adventures of Superman #642

Superman is mind-controlled by Max Lord and placed in an illusion where he thinks he's fighting Darkseid (he says it's Ruin, but that might simply be an error), but in reality he's fighting Batman. He's enraged because he saw Darkseid kill Lois in the illusion, so he's taking it out on Batman.

End result: While fighting off the Watchtower's defenses, Superman nearly murders Batman, who is saved by the intervention of Wonder Woman. Advantage Kal-El. Duh.

Superman/Batman #23

Bats is possessed by the Kryptonite Man. That's right. He's literally glowing with kryptonite.

End result: While literally glowing with kryptonite, Batman still loses to Superman. Advantage Kal-El.

Superman/Batman #33

Here Batman was under the control of an alien life form called the Blackrock. He had super powers. Legit super powers!

End result: With legit superpowers, Superman still beat him so hard the Blackrock got scared and abandoned him. Advantage Kal-El.

Justice League #2

This fight is the first face-to-face encounter between Superman and Batman post-Flashpoint. I've only included the Batman stuff since the rest of the fight is mostly GL and Flash, so it's irrelevant.

End result: Batman throws literally everything he has at Superman and it doesn't do squat. Who do you think has the advantage here?

Batman: The Dark Knight #5

This is their most recent fight, and already the single image of Batman punching Superman is circulating everywhere as if that's what the fight actually was. Batman is on Bane's new Venom, and with it he somehow hits Superman hard enough to make him bleed. That in itself is PIS, mainly because if this new Venom amps your strength to the point where you can hurt a Kryptonian, then Batman should have been splattered across the wall when Clayface and Bane hit him while they were on the drug. Towards the end of the fight, Batman starts channeling Frank Miller, so Superman goes like:

End result: Even with the PIS strength and durability increase, Superman still wins with one punch. Advantage Kal-El.

So there you have it. The only instance of Superman ever losing to Batman in a direct encounter is a non canon incident where Batman had years of prep and three other heroes helping him. In canon content, Batman's had all kinds of amps and still lost to Superman every time.

Am I saying it's impossible for Batman to ever beat Superman, no matter what the circumstances are? No. I'm just saying it's extremely unlikely. Odds are that in 99% of their encounters, there's only going to be one real outcome.

@entropy_aegis said:

Superman vs Batman fights are hilarious.

They always give Bruce some kind of chance because no one wants to see him get wrecked. But he can't beat Superman in a random encounter. He's not Catwoman.

Excellent post CB, kudos for putting the time and research into creating this. Hopefully people can eventually refer to this and finally put an end to the stupidity.

5 star thread would read to grandchildren

You have become one of my favorite posters on CV. You definitely have the greatest sense of "realism" in comics. I applaud you. I agree with you 100% on all of this and that's coming from a huge batman fan (though I'm a huge superman fan too).

Excellent blog post. If anyone ever starts saying that Batman can beat Superman easily, I'll refer them to here.

Knew you were going to make this blogs when I saw your uploads

nice incomplete list btw :p
BB

@Billy Batson: They fought in Noel?

@CitizenBane:

Just a brief encounter in Lex Luthor: Man of Steel.
BB

@Billy Batson: I remember now. I don't have that book, though. This list shall remain forever incomplete.

I also left out their encounter in For Tomorrow because that was just Superman being an ass to Batman.

@Morpheus_ said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Billy Batson: They fought in Noel?

I haven't read Noel, but they fought in Lex Luthor: Man of Steel, and Bermejo did draw both.

Yeah, Noel was the most recent Bermejo book I read, so I thought it was that.

@Morpheus_: Is MOS even canon? Or is it like Joker?

@Billy Batson: I remember now. I don't have that book, though. This list shall remain forever incomplete.

I also left out their encounter in For Tomorrow because that was just Superman being an ass to Batman.

@CitizenBane said:

@Morpheus_: Is MOS even canon? Or is it like Joker?

I have always viewed it as a non canon story, much like Joker, yeah.

So a guy with Superpowers to beat all the DBZ guy, beats a guy that is weaker that Roshi? (Sarcasm)

And people say i was the one that was trolling them.

@Primmaster64: Joker

@CitizenBane: I love you. Thank you for making my sh*tty night.

Oh my... you sir are brilliant.

@batshrine said:

So I read all of those stories that you mentioned, and to be honest when Batman has the advantage you discredited him, and when Superman had the advantage you made it legitimate. That's my only criticism on your review, but otherwise it is very well put together

Batman had the advantage for fleeting moments at best, I focused on the final outcome. I only mentioned Superman's advantages when they were directly related to him winning the fight.

''A  man who only got stay alive,because I let you.''

Spiderman can kill both of them at the same time

I've never even heard of Red Son, but it looks awesome.

Amazing work again Baney. Even I, an avid hater of Superman and an avid lover of Batman, will admit that Superman will wreck Batman. The only time a tactical win could ever work would be if Bruce had something ridiculous like ten years and unlimited resources of prep and the fight occurred on HIS terms.

@MuyJingo said:

• Giving Kal-El the advantage in TDKR returns. What nonsense. Batman beat Superman fair and square (well not really). Your main point is that Bruce was dead, when that was part of the plan...so yeah, fail.

My main point was not that Bruce was dead, just that he had no advantage at the end of the fight. He did not KO Superman, incapacitate him, or.......anything of the sort. That's one hell of an advantage.

• I know you gave the advantage to Batman for Tower of Babel, but your arguments against it don't hold much water. The Wayne fortune is perfectly adequate for synthesizing the artificial kryptonite, nor is it at all hard for Batman to develop such a thing and hide that he is doing so.

What? I never said Bruce could not synthesize the artificial kryptonite, considering he has a collection of multi-colored pieces of kryptonite that would be foolishness. I said that IMPLEMENTING that plan would be much easier for Ra's than it would be for Bruce, which is true.

The times when Batman was possessed, he wasn't Batman, so they don't count as Batman vs Superman. That seems pretty basic and reasonable. If one of Batman's greatest advantages over Clark is his mind and he doesn't have that, then it's equivalent to Superman losing his strength.

Batman was still roughly Batman when he was using the Blackrock, and when he was possessed by the Kryptonite Man Superman beat him using speed, something Bruce has no counter for no matter how smart he is.

Although Batman did beat Superman in the Wildstorm universe ^_^

@MuyJingo said:

@CitizenBane said:

My main point was not that Bruce was dead, just that he had no advantage at the end of the fight. He did not KO Superman, incapacitate him, or.......anything of the sort. That's one hell of an advantage.

Superman was pretty much vulnerable...we are lead to believe had Batman wanted to kill, KO or severely incapacitate supes he could have. Advantage Batman, which was well earned.

We were not led to believe anything of the sort. Superman was vulnerable because he didn't even WANT to hurt Batman, he even told Bruce that the fight was idiotic and he was more concerned about Bruce's health than his own. Even if Bruce had some kind of advantage, which I don't believe, it was against an opponent who was barely into the fight.

Batman was still roughly Batman when he was using the Blackrock, and when he was possessed by the Kryptonite Man Superman beat him using speed, something Bruce has no counter for no matter how smart he is.

To be fair I didn't read that story, but if he was fighting Superman how was he still mostly Batman?

It was Batman's mind, but the Blackrock amplified his anger against Superman.

Also, the kryptonite issue is tricky. Superman has been written sometimes as not having been able to come anywhere near a little bit, and other times being slightly affected when in the vicinity of a lot. It depends on the writer, but for most of what I have seen Supes would not be able to get close enough to someone glowing with K to fight as efficiently as he was in that scenario.

It varies, but the quantity of kryptonite that Batman generally employs against Superman is confined to just that small ring, which on average is not going to hinder Superman to the point where Batman can beat him.

@MuyJingo said:

@CitizenBane said:

We were not led to believe anything of the sort. Superman was vulnerable because he didn't even WANT to hurt Batman, he even told Bruce that the fight was idiotic and he was more concerned about Bruce's health than his own. Even if Bruce had some kind of advantage, which I don't believe, it was against an opponent who was barely into the fight.

Disagree with you here. Superman was beat down. I will say that perhaps it is a matter of interpretation, however by and far the most common interprettaion is that Superman was defeated. I've never heard of someone sharing your take before and I don't believe it is well supported.

It's not well supported because nobody bothers posting anything other than the image of Batman punching Superman. You know it, I know it. Nobody bothers posting the rest of the page where Superman says a fight is idiotic and then tears off a chunk of Batman's armor. Nobody bothers posting the part where Superman is more concerned about Batman's health than his own. Nobody bothers posting the part where Superman starts off by trying to reason with Batman. In the face of that, where does any notion of support come from? I'm not seeing by what rationale it could be claimed that Superman was defeated.

So Batman was consumed with anger due to being possessed and wasn't thinking clearly? Then yeah, wha I said about him not having his biggest strength would apply.

If you can explain to me how thinking clearly somehow negates Superman's massive physical advantages in that situation..........that'd be lovely.

That's the point though, that it varies. Often the ring Batman carries would stop Supes from even getting close. In other takes we get what happened in Man of Steel, which while I think that take is more realistic, isn't the most common approach.
The point is it depends, but having Batman defeat Superman with heavy reliance on the ring would not be hard to believe or out of line with what we have seen previously.

It's not "often". It's a grand total of once, in Hush, under Loeb of all people. Barring extremely liberal interpretations of what kryptonite does to Superman, that ring should not mean squat, and in practice usually does not mean squat at the end of it all.

@Lvenger said:

Excellent blog post. If anyone ever starts saying that Batman can beat Superman easily, I'll refer them to here.

People say batman beats superman easily because batman always has kryptonite... Then again the most new version of batman has an indestructable suit that he could even beat superman around in... Logically Superman would win because hes got superpowers which batman only has gadgets, but not enough to take superman out.

@MuyJingo said:

It is well supported. If you read the wiki or Dc summaries they all describe the plot that...Batman beat Superman. Because he did. I think you have a good point about Superman holding back and worrying about Bruce, but the end result is that Superman was defeated. If you search for "dark knight returns" and "batman beats superman" or similar variations you an see it is overwhelmingly the most common interpretation. Not just from forum posts or blogs but from journalism sites such as IGN as well.

Wikis are edited by whoever feels like it at the time, and summaries are secondary reference material at best. And LOL, are you actually telling me to rely on a google search for reliability? Those results come up because it is the POPULAR opinion that Batman beat Superman, not the RIGHT opinion, especially if you look at what actually happened in the fight.

I shouldn't have to. One of Batman's greatest strengths, if not his greatest is his tactical/strategic mind. We have seen numerous examples of Batman being physically outmatched and still coming up with a way to win. It's kind of what makes Batman Batman. If his mind is compromised and that advantage taken away, then it isn't a fair match.

Oh yes, you do. This is by far the stupidest point that's always raised in favor of Batman. There's never any logic or rationale behind people saying his intellect will negate Superman's physical advantages. It's just "He's smart so he'll figure out a way". What way? There's never any answer for that. Because there isn't one. Give me a break.

No, it is often. Certainly not just under Loeb. Normally the weakness is written hwoever it needs to be to fit the story. We've seen him draw back from tiny amounts from far away and be able to tolerate larger amounts at a closer proximity. It varies, in Canon. You can't dismiss the ring, or the extent to which Kryptonite changes the odds.
Another point: Superman gave Batman the ring because he believed Batman was the only person who could/would bring him down if necessary. Superman, believes Batman can best him. That should say something.

No, it is not. Go ahead and pinpoint other instances of the ring affecting Superman in a similar manner. I'll wait. "Dismiss the ring"? Please.

Superman also basically ridiculed Batman for being helpless to do anything against him in For Tomorrow, and you've already seen that future Superman say Batman only lived because he permitted it. Why ignore Superman's beliefs in those situations? It says nothing, one writer's opinion of Superman holds little weight compared to the dozens of instances that contradict it or say the complete opposite.

If you ask me, it all comes down to whether or not Superman is specifically gunning for Batman. If, for whatever reason, Superman is actively looking for Batman, Supes will find him, and beat him. Batman wouldn't even know what had happened. He would simply suddenly have two burn holes in his forehead or would have his torso separated from his legs. If Superman is on some kind of rampage, however, and Bats finds out about it, he'll prepare his strategy and it will probably work, because that's what he does.

@MuyJingo said:

No, not quite. That used to be the case, but now high traffic pages are protected, you need an account to edit, edits have to be approved etc. Wikipedia and Wikia are often reliable sources for popular pages. In many cases if you are unsure you can check the references yourself, as the articles are generally well cited.

And it still is, and that is how it will remain. This site is a wiki as well, and when I checked the page for The Dark Knight Returns, it summed up the fight as "Batman prepares for his battle against Superman, and after a powerful battle, Wayne ends up winning. However he suffers a heart attack soon after and dies." I just changed it to "Batman prepares for his battle against Superman, and after a powerful battle, Wayne loses when he suffers a heart attack and dies." It took me all of three seconds. That is how simple it is. Edits do not have to be approved once a user has crossed a certain level, which is why I was able to make this particular edit so easily. If I was bored enough to make a wikipedia account, I could probably make an edit there as well. There is a reason academic institutions frown upon citing wikis as a source, anyone can edit them which makes their credibility tenuous at best. References? I have the issue right here. I don't see how I could get a better reference than that.

If you refer to my original point above, what I said was that your interpretation is less common. You seem to be agreeing here, since you concede that it is the popular opinion that batman beat superman (which is the point I made above). Hence, above I said it is a matter of interpretation, but I and the majority of people interpret the events that Superman was defeated.

And I ask WHY. What did Batman do to suggest he could have beaten Superman had the fight reached a less sudden conclusion? Look at what actually happened. Batman gave Superman a nosebleed, a swollen eye and a bloody lip. In contrast, while holding back, Superman broke three of Batman's ribs and crushed his wrist. What did Batman actually DO that suggests he had the upper hand before he collapsed? At best he embarrassed Superman, which is cool and all, and probably overblown enough (hey, everyone would like to believe that Batman can beat Superman, wouldn't they?) that you and the majority of people seem to think a temporary inconvenience is the same as defeat. It's not.

Your only real argument was that Superman was not KOed or killed, which is not much of an argument IMO. KOing or killing someone is not the only way to win a fight.

See above. Your only real argument is that Batman didn't die in seconds or lose easily or that he embarrassed Superman for a while with the help of Green Arrow, all of which is explained by the fact that Superman simply didn't want to fight Batman.

For all of his physical skills, which are damn impressive (for a human), a large portion if not a majority of his battles are won by his wits. Bane, Darkseid, Ivy, whoever.

I'm not sure whether you were making a generalization of how things go for Batman or if these particular examples are being raised for their relevance........but I'm going to address them one by one.

Bane: They have fought six times. They fought in Batman #497, where Bane gave Bruce one of the worst thrashings in comic book history before breaking his back, all after making him run through a gauntlet of all his foes over months. Bruce's intellect did not help him there. They fought in Detective Comics #701, where Bane was drowning Batman at one point until he snapped back and defeated him. That was through superior fighting skill. Bruce's intellect did not help him there. They fought in No Man's Land, the fight never reached a conclusion, so I'll call that a draw. Bruce's intellect did not help him there. They fought in Superman/Batman #54, where Batman curbstomped Bane because he had Superman's powers at the time. Bruce's intellect did not help him there. They had a minor skirmish in Gotham Underground #1, where Bane KO'd him. Bruce's intellect did not help him there. Most recently, they fought in Batman: The Dark Knight #7, where Bane beat the living daylights out of Bruce and would have killed him were it not for Flash's intervention. Bruce's intellect did not help him there. So tell me, in what fight against Bane did Batman's intellect prove to be the deciding factor?

Darkseid: They fought in Rock of Ages, Darkseid obliterated him in 2 seconds. Bruce's intellect did not help him there. They fought in Superman/Batman #12 where Bruce attacked Darkseid after setting off the Hellspores on a countdown that would destroy Apokolips. This was the only thing that prevented Darkseid from killing him, he needed the disarm codes. He was still beating the crap out of Bruce for sport, however. So Bruce's intellect did help him here, but not in the way you meant --- all it did was save him from what would have been certain death, but became a violent beating instead. They fought in Superman/Batman #42, where Batman landed a kick on Darkseid because he was depowered at the time. Bruce's intellect did not help him there. They fought in Final Crisis #6, where Batman shot the host body that Darkseid was occupying at the time (and this after he'd been beaten up by one of Darkseid's minions in Final Crisis #3). All this did was weaken Darkseid's hold over Dan Turpin's body; after that Bruce was struck by the Omega Beams and sent back in time without his memory and an Apokoliptian monster on his tail. Procuring the radion bullet didn't require any great intellectual leap either, he just plucked it out of Orion's corpse during the autopsy and he still had it on his person when he was attacked and KO'd by Kraken. Bruce's intellect did not help him there.

Ivy: Luckily enough, I'd already discussed Ivy's track record against Batman on another thread, so I didn't have to look too hard. They fought in No Man's Land, where Ivy just tied up Bruce and made him watch as she killed Clayface. Bruce's intellect did not help him there. They fought in Cast Shadows, where Ivy tied up Bruce and left him helpless after nearly poisoning him to death. Bruce's intellect did not help him there. They fought in Detective Comics #694, and the only reason Bruce won that fight was because of CIS; Ivy decided to fight him H2H for some strange reason, and it's not like she has any fighting skill to write home about. Bruce's intellect did not help him there. They fought in Face the Face, and Ivy beat him before he beat her using prep, so his intellect did help him there. Then they fought in Gotham City Sirens #26, where Ivy was wrecking Gotham in a rage and would presumably have messed up Bruce if Catwoman hadn't convinced her to leave. Bruce's intellect did not help him there.

These are all people with a physical edge over Batman. He has struggled with them, he has lost to them, and sometimes they have nearly killed him. And with the exception of Darkseid, none of the metahumans that Bruce struggles with are on Superman's level. I don't know, maybe I read a different Batman, but the examples you gave don't help your point. At all.

Once again, it isn't stupid, it is a large part of who the character is.

Oh, it certainly is, and it's not stupid to think that Bruce's intellect doesn't factor into his fights, but thinking that he can devise strategies to beat any metahuman of any shape and size just because he's Batman and he's so smart and stuff? That's stupid.

Most people don't have a problem except when the same rules are applied to Batman vs Superman, which is ludicrous.

I'm curious, who are these "most people" you refer to? Batman regularly struggles with people far below Superman's level regardless of prep. Seriously, whom has he ever beaten with prep in canon that makes you think he could beat Superman? He's never outright defeated Superman with prep, nor has he ever defeated anyone on that level with prep, unless you count the Hyperclan, which is not a great feat considering they had a very common, extremely damaging and easily exploitable weakness that literally anyone could come up with on the fly. Hell, Prometheus has a much better prep resume than Batman does. He's a better Batman than Batman.

if batman prepared, then it would be a tough fight but there is a good chance batman would prevail.

Based. On. What.

What part of canon supports this notion? The part where Batman is smart and stuff and Superman gave him his ring because it could kill him and Batman is smart and stuff?

I can't do that. I simply don't have time to read through comics looking for instances.

I know you can't do that. It is unreasonable to expect anyone to do so. However, I actually did research the topic while making this blog. I don't like to do things half-assed, so I read all the canon instances of that ring affecting Superman. The only, and I do mean only, instance where that ring did anything more than irritate him, would be in the first arc of Superman/Batman, where Captain Atom uses the ring to subdue Superman, but that was because Atom was using his own energy manipulation powers to amplify the ring's natural effects. Batman cannot do so, can he? There are zero other instances of the ring harming him to any degree that would indicate Batman could take him. Your only case is that Superman thought the ring could put him down, therefore it must be able to put him down. IN PRACTICE, there is no indication of that.

Your point here seems to be that you disagree that small amounts of kryptonite can cause significantly adverse reactions in superman from a distance. If I am understanding your point properly, I would be glad to open it up as a new topic, where other people may chime in with evidence for or against.

I advise you to do so. You might be surprised at all the scans that support the point that a piece of kryptonite that small is not going to help Batman in the slightest.

You can't simply say (as you have above) that it is ridiculous for Batman to beat Superman when there is canonical evidence that he is capable of doing so.

There is no canonical evidence that he is capable of doing so. Therefore, it is ridiculous for Batman to beat Superman. This is not particularly hard.

It's easy to pick and choose evidence for a certain point of view, but at the end of the day it depends on the writer.

It sure does, and guess what? When one writer thinks Batman can beat Superman and even has Superman say so, while every other writer crafts incidents that demonstrate Batman's complete inability to defeat Superman...................well, weren't you the one going on about the majority opinion a while back?

I like Batman, heck I love him, but logically he should never, EVER be able to beat Superman, especially if Superman is fighting back.

@shadow23 said:

I think Batman was created to show the capabilites of human spirt against ideal gods like Superman.

Except he really was not. He was created to fight mad scientists.

The whole human spirit versus God-like Superman is just what Lex Luthor keeps saying post-Crisis.