should robin be in the batman reboot?

  • 159 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
#1 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio


#2 Edited by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course he should appear. As long as they are making Justice League in the realm of possibility, then it is not too far fetched to believe a teenage kid can help Batman take out some thugs

Edit: Just realized that a great way to skip a new origin movie would be to make the movie an origin of Robin. That way Batman would be familiar in Gotham, but the movie would seem like an appropriate beginning.

#3 Posted by Alch21 (210 posts) - - Show Bio

They should stay away from apeing Nolan's version. The Robin route would be something new and different. Ideal for a reboot.

#4 Posted by ElGUitarist (29 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I the only one that thinks the character of Batman -a mysterious and dark knight of the night, a figure feared by the underworld, a character based on fear and darkness, a figure who made a Talon feel fear for the first time - would be diminished by having a side kick? Even more so... a kid sidekick?

It more fits a character like Caps, or Wolverine and Spidey if they were ever to have a real sidekick... but not characters like Batman or Punisher.

It just barely flies as acceptable in the comics; not at all in the cinema.

#5 Posted by nickzambuto (14115 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist said:

Am I the only one that thinks the character of Batman -a mysterious and dark knight of the night, a figure feared by the underworld, a character based on fear and darkness, a figure who made a Talon feel fear for the first time - would be diminished by having a side kick? Even more so... a kid sidekick?

It more fits a character like Caps, or Wolverine and Spidey if they were ever to have a real sidekick... but not characters like Batman or Punisher.

It just barely flies as acceptable in the comics; not at all in the cinema.

That's why we have the Nolan trilogy. Now that it's over, the Batman reboot is gonna need to do something new, and Robin is a good choice.

The reboot shouldn't be dark and gritty, again, Nolan's movies just ended.

@r3d_rob1n said:

Of course he should appear. As long as they are making Justice League in the realm of possibility, then it is not too far fetched to believe a teenage kid can help Batman take out some thugs

Edit: Just realized that a great way to skip a new origin movie would be to make the movie an origin of Robin. That way Batman would be familiar in Gotham, but the movie would seem like an appropriate beginning.

That is a great idea.

#6 Posted by ElGUitarist (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@ElGUitarist said:

Am I the only one that thinks the character of Batman -a mysterious and dark knight of the night, a figure feared by the underworld, a character based on fear and darkness, a figure who made a Talon feel fear for the first time - would be diminished by having a side kick? Even more so... a kid sidekick?

It more fits a character like Caps, or Wolverine and Spidey if they were ever to have a real sidekick... but not characters like Batman or Punisher.

It just barely flies as acceptable in the comics; not at all in the cinema.

That's why we have the Nolan trilogy. Now that it's over, the Batman reboot is gonna need to do something new, and Robin is a good choice.

The reboot shouldn't be dark and gritty, again, Nolan's movies just ended.

@r3d_rob1n said:

Of course he should appear. As long as they are making Justice League in the realm of possibility, then it is not too far fetched to believe a teenage kid can help Batman take out some thugs

Edit: Just realized that a great way to skip a new origin movie would be to make the movie an origin of Robin. That way Batman would be familiar in Gotham, but the movie would seem like an appropriate beginning.

That is a great idea.

But dark and gritty is that Batman character...?

Nolan's trilogy is plausible. We should get a reboot that is more "fantastical" and stylistic (Like the Burton movies, but a lot less Tim Burton).

It isn't about being "dark and gritty", it's about doing what makes sense for the character and translate well to the cinema. The character of Batman makes little sense having a sidekick, whether it's in the comics or movies.

#7 Posted by nickzambuto (14115 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist said:

@nickzambuto said:

@ElGUitarist said:

Am I the only one that thinks the character of Batman -a mysterious and dark knight of the night, a figure feared by the underworld, a character based on fear and darkness, a figure who made a Talon feel fear for the first time - would be diminished by having a side kick? Even more so... a kid sidekick?

It more fits a character like Caps, or Wolverine and Spidey if they were ever to have a real sidekick... but not characters like Batman or Punisher.

It just barely flies as acceptable in the comics; not at all in the cinema.

That's why we have the Nolan trilogy. Now that it's over, the Batman reboot is gonna need to do something new, and Robin is a good choice.

The reboot shouldn't be dark and gritty, again, Nolan's movies just ended.

@r3d_rob1n said:

Of course he should appear. As long as they are making Justice League in the realm of possibility, then it is not too far fetched to believe a teenage kid can help Batman take out some thugs

Edit: Just realized that a great way to skip a new origin movie would be to make the movie an origin of Robin. That way Batman would be familiar in Gotham, but the movie would seem like an appropriate beginning.

That is a great idea.

But dark and gritty is that Batman character...?

Nolan's trilogy is plausible. We should get a reboot that is more "fantastical" and stylistic (Like the Burton movies, but a lot less Tim Burton).

It isn't about being "dark and gritty", it's about doing what makes sense for the character and translate well to the cinema. The character of Batman makes little sense having a sidekick, whether it's in the comics or movies.

It makes perfect sense. Batman needs Robin to inject some light into that dark, hopeless world of his. Bruce tells Dick that Bruce didn't save him from the darkness when he took him in, but rather Dick saved Bruce from the darkness.

#8 Posted by joshmightbe (24937 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist: Can I point out the Irony of someone using an Adam West Avatar is trying to say Batman is always meant to be dark and gritty?

#9 Posted by ElGUitarist (29 posts) - - Show Bio

Adam West was the darkest thing to happen to Batman. Also, the whole getting rid of a bomb bit was the point, haha

I still think something like that should be a love-life aspect for Bruce, the "saving me from the darkness". It just doesn't make sense for a character like Batman to have a sidekick. Completely delegitimizes the "scary" nature of the hero Bruce wants to convey with with Batman persona. You can't really fear someone who's back-up is a young dude in a red and yellow getup... or who needs backup at his side period. Sure there have been situations where he needs back up (most recently the Night of Owls... he can't be everywhere at once), but in general... just doesn't fit.

#10 Posted by joshmightbe (24937 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist: If you look at it from a psychological perspective Dick Grayson makes sense, Bruce Sees a kid whose parents were murdered right in front of him and instantly feels connected, and in many of the newer versions of the origin it states that Batman was reluctant to train him but realizing that Dick was A. Very gifted in this area and B. Liable to get himself killed by doing it on his own he decided that training him as a partner was his best option. And almost every Batman writer seems to agree that Batman needs a Robin to keep him from going too far. Plus its not like any of the Robins have a happy go lucky back story Tim Drake has had the closest to a normal life. Dick Grayson watched his parents get murdered and was raised by Batman, Jason Todd was a homeless kid who was a thief when Batman found him, then he was beaten to death, Stephanie Brown was the daughter of a super villain, Damian was raised by a group of assassins for the sole purpose of basically being a sacrifice for his Grand father, Tim's life didn't go down the dark path until after he was Robin.

#11 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist: The character of Robin can be dark and gritty as well, though he should still remain more optimistic than Batman. He's no longer the "holy catchphrase Batman!" kid that he was when he debuted 70 years ago. Dick watched his parents die and was then taken in and vigorously trained by Batman. I'm sure a talented director can spin that so that it doesn't seem too childish. Besides, it is not unbelievable that a world class gymnast who is 15-16 and highly trained at martial arts could take down a bunch of criminals. Worst case scenario the movie could be done similar to Dark Victory, where Robin is a main staple in the cave the majority of the time, and then shows his value to help at the end of the first film. That way the transition to Teen Wonder doesn't seem to happen overnight.

#12 Posted by CrimsonCake (2679 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course he should,the reboot has to dive deeper into the batman mythos that the Nolan trilogy did not.

#13 Posted by SupBatz (1777 posts) - - Show Bio

@CrimsonCake said:

Of course he should,the reboot has to dive deeper into the batman mythos that the Nolan trilogy did not.

#14 Posted by ElGUitarist (29 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not about the character of Robin being dark; that is way too superficial of a complaint to be made against Robin.

The complaint is having a sidekick, period. It is not fitting of the Batman persona at all. Yeah yeah, Dick's parents died and all the sentimental stuff that is necessary for the Bruce Wayne character like described. I agree, that makes sense.... for Bruce. Why does the person who keeps him sane have to fight as his sidekick? Why couldn't it be a love interest whom he connects to on the same level?

Why did Bob Kane/Bill FInger have to create the character of Dick Grayson? Why not a love interest whom had a similar tragic background which Bruce can connect to and who saves him in all the emotional and psychological ways that Robin does?

Why not see a storyline where Bruce nearly gets lost in the Batman persona, where he is becoming the "the mission is never over" Batman after 5 years in the shit, and is slowly blurring the line of right and wrong. Then comes a woman who just had her family murdered/[something else tragic that Batman couldn't save]. And instead of going after whomever the murderer as Batman, he see himself in her and realizes that she needs what he needed as an orphan... someone to who knows the pain to sympathize and comfort (akin to Robin John's distinction between "understanding" and knowing)... so he saves her emotionally as Bruce Wayne. The resulting relationship ends up saving both of them, and this act of saving that didn't involve punching a bad guy grounds Bruce Wayne from his Batman persona - beating a bad guy isn't the only way to protect/inspire Gotham, and going after the bad guy isn't the only thing (let alone most important thing) when tragedy takes place.

OR, all of the above happens with a young boy he decides to adopt, and become a saving father figure to (as he did to all the Robins in the comics), only he doesn't become a sidekick, and would only later in life take the mantle of Batman when Bruce is too old. But the tragic lover's relationship is better/makes more sense.

I mean, what Punisher is doing right now with Cole is cool, because I don't see Cole sticking around for much longer/is a temporary thing, and has the potential for the loving mutual-tragedy relationship that grounds Frank Castle from being nothing more than a the Punisher.

#15 Posted by joshmightbe (24937 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist: Given everything we know about Batman, him recruiting a soldier in his war on crime fits his personality far better than a love interest, his relentless dedication to his cause pretty much trumps all personal desires he has. Besides that Robin has been part of the Batman mythos longer than pretty much any of his other supporting cast including Alfred (He was created 3 years after Robin) so obviously there is some need for the character.

#16 Posted by MrShway88 (660 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist: just doesn't fit.

What do you mean it doesn't fit? It fit for over 62 years.

#17 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist: I can see how the love interest would work, and in most ways probably makes a bit more sense (at least realistically) than recruiting Robin to help in the fight. However, the love interest angle being Batman's source of light was played upon heavily in Nolan's films with Rachel Dawes and later Selina Kyle. For this next reboot I think that DC should go in a more fantastical direction, which includes a villain not as grounded in reality (Freeze) and Robin aiding in Batman's fight.

Part of the reason that Bruce takes in Dick, and also Jason, is to help prevent them from leading a bitter life that eventually results in them turning to crime or reckless vigilantism. By guiding them and giving them training he ensures that they follow his moral code and are adequately prepared.

#18 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (11417 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist: @joshmightbe: @r3d_rob1n: Yes and no.

Yes we need Dick Grayson, Jason Todd and Tim Drake in the movies, but we dont need Robin to have them in the movies.

It make sense Bruce decide to have childrens, the main problem is that he get those childrens into a war against crime when arent ready mentally to do that, dont make any sense at all.

Dont matter how awesome is a kid at martial arts, how smart he is, is still a kid.

Kick Ass show how insane is doing this to a kid, i have said it in the past, Batman trainning Dick, Jason and Tim would make perfect sense, since everybody know Bruce is a normal human, sooner or later he would have to let other people get the costume and who is better that a person he raised?

Robin make almost no sense in the comic books, in the movies and the Adam West tv show you see how ridiculous Robin is, heck you could even notice Schumacher try to get Nigthwing into the movies and take Robin out.

You could show Batman trainning them, but at the end of the day, it must be they who decide to be heros, their own decision and Batman trainning them to help them, not because he is some insane old man that takes a kid to make him an image of him so Batman keeps living.

#19 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeathpooltheT1000: the New 52 has shifted the age of the Robins so that they would be closer to 16 when Bruce takes them in. A 16 year old can make a conscious decision about the direction they want their life to go in. Besides, we are not talking about entirely normal kids here. Dick witnessed his parents murder right before his eyes, it makes sense that Bruce would take him in and raise him. Also, growing up in the circus provides a very different lifestyle than the one most of us had. As for Jason, the kid was homeless. He experienced how hard the streets of Gotham can be first hand. Bruce giving him some training and armor was probably safer than him out alone anyway. Tim is pretty normal. The kid is smart and his family has wealth, so it isn't as if he had things hard at all. He does have an unwavering sense of right and wrong, and at the age of 16, especially if he was emancipated due to his parents death, he has the right to do what he believes is best for Gotham. Damian's story is a little more far fetched, and IMO could not play out properly to the mainstream audiences. I have certainly met 16 year olds who could kick my ass, and I am 22 and in fairly good shape.

Also, comparing a possible new version of Robin to the Adam West Batman and Schumacher films is unfair. The level of camp and goofiness in both films makes them unfit for realistic comparisons. As for wanting to shift to Nightwing in Batman and Robin movie, it probably had more to do with the fact that Chris O'donnel looked closer to 30 than 16.

#20 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

I never liked the reboot of Dick being 16 to make him seem more "legitimate/realistic". Batman inducting a young (12 year old) sidekick would illustrate how disconnected from reality he is as a person. Bruce already disregards conventional methods of coping with his parent's death, inducting a child in his fight for justice sort of makes sense.

From his perspective he's "saving" Dick from becoming like him, not to mention Dick is physically talented as a circus brat. They have a falling out and their relationship is never quite the same, choosing a mantel he received from Superman when he grew up. The subsequent Robins fit this role as well. Jason teaches him about the dangers of having a child side-kick. I would make Tim be around 16 years old, where Bruce keeps a robin while understanding the dangers of him being too young.

#21 Posted by Jack Donaghy (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd like to see Robin in the next reboot, mostly because the man child abortion that was Chris O'Donnell's Robin needs to be completely erased from our memories once and for all and a Robin done right can do that. I don't really have a problem with Robin but most of my favorite Batman stories have a solo Batman. My only concern for a movie is that the general audience might not take the character seriously and would wonder why Batman needs a kid to help him fight crime.

Plus I always thought it was weird that someone who has been traumatized by his parents death would bring someone who was also traumatized by his parents death along with him in such a violent field. It raises questions like: what if a criminal kills Batman in front of Robin? Wouldn't that further scar Robin? How would he live with himself knowing he was responsible for putting a minor in great danger? It doesn't seem like someone like Batman who's well aware that he could die any night would bring a kid who watched his parents die with him to fight dangerous criminals.

#22 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

It depends on the direction that they wanna take the Justice League movie in. If they're aiming for a "kid friendly" JL movie like The Avengers was, I say get Robin the hell in there.

If, however, they're going the route that I'm betting that they're going for, I think it's best if they leave him out. The very fact that they went to Ben Affleck to direct leads me to believe that they're going for a very "realistic" approach to the movie, much like Man of Steel is going to be.

While Robin is a give or take (but I'd love to see him), I feel Nightwing is absolutely due for an appearance. Give him a chance, WB!

#23 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Robin would work in a Batman reboot but there are numerous factors to consider.

1) The tone the reboot will adopt, only Damian Wayne or Jason could work well in a grittier or darker toned film (in my opinion). Dick is too lighthearted assuming they use him as a 12 year old

2) The actor who takes the role, the actor has to be able to do a good job. Can't see many kid actors doing a decent job of it.

3) Who plays Batman. You need to have a dynamic duo that complements each other well, I'd like to see a take on Dick Grayson's Batman where you had a lighthearted Batman and a Robin who was all dark and gritty. However you'd need to find an actor who could fill this role well (I know people will laugh but why not Joseph Gordon-Levitt?), its hard to explain but someone like Bale just wouldn't suit the aforementioned character type for Batman.

Personally I'd like to see them use an older Robin, why not use Dick Grayson in the film but in his 'final days' as Robin as it were, his relationship with Bruce would serve as an interesting back story to whatever the main events would be. I'll also say this, although no one wants a reboot that will have the same tone as Nolan's trilogy at this point in time I can't see there being too much variation on what's been done. Something fresh will be tried but at the end of the day I don't think anyone wants to see them have a 10-12 year old kid as Robin running around wisecracking whilst wearing ridiculous shorts.

#24 Posted by sohanlon07 (51 posts) - - Show Bio

There shouldn't be a reboot for many, many years.

#25 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeathpooltheT1000: you cant take into account the adam west tv show because it made every charecter look ridiculous. robin is part of batman he needs to be there.

#26 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@LuigiBat: Perhaps a movie that shows the death of Dick Grayson's parents before the credits, and then segues to a training montage during the credits (similar to the one in The Incredible Hulk). That way we can have an older Grayson, while new viewers are not too confused on the character's backstory. Introducing an older Robin in the first film also allows for Nightwing and subsequent Nightwing movies down the road.

I don't like the thought of Jason being Robin in a Batman movie before Dick gets an adequate shot at it, and I don't think that Damian will ever be accepted as a mainstream Robin. I would love to see Death in the Family and Under the Hood done in live action though.

#27 Posted by CrimsonAvenger (1162 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely. Robin could work great in a movie if a director were to use the character properly.

#28 Posted by tylerlugowski (118 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes because Robin wasn't done right the first time and so many comic fans would look forward to having him in the movies.

#29 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2145 posts) - - Show Bio

ive heard a rumour that nightwing will be in the reboot if so who would the robin be i think they would do Tim not Jason

#30 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (11417 posts) - - Show Bio

@LuigiBat: @r3d_rob1n: Ok lets be honest, Robin was a children, dont matter how much they change things to give it more sense, it ends making things more ridiculous, if all the Robins start at the age of 16, it mean they have been train before Batman take them, i mean, i know in comic books when you take a suit, for some magic reason you get martial arts skills, but in a movie looks ridiculous.

The only way to explain how good they are, is if Batman take them at the age of 12, train them for 5 years and thats the only thing they do, but lets face it, when you are 16 or 17, you would never use the Robin suit, you are too old for that.

In a movie would make more sense that Robin is some type of trainning costume they use and then every single one of them jump to his own identity.

Also, lets face it, people would respect Nightwing, The Red Hood and Red (I hope they change the name in some point) Robin more that they do with Robin.

#31 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeathpooltheT1000 said:

The only way to explain how good they are, is if Batman take them at the age of 12, train them for 5 years and thats the only thing they do, but lets face it, when you are 16 or 17, you would never use the Robin suit, you are too old for that.

If they used Tim's suit then it would be more acceptable, or the suit shown in the Arkham City game. By using darker tones of red, mixed with a lot more black, the suit would not seem so childish nor would it stand out like a sore thumb.

I think it is important for them to be Robin first before branching off to their own identities. Robin has to be more than just training in the cave. They have to go out into the city with Batman and get real hands-on crime fighting training. I have known many people who are extremely skilled in Basketball, but then flubbed it all up in real games because they couldn't handle the pressure or think on their feet.

The movie could show the child taken in at a young age, and then flash forward a few years to imply a long amount of training with Bruce. This would allow the movie to avoid showing a small kid fighting adults, but would also not be similar to Schumacher's vision where Robin came in old with little training and started immediately.

#32 Posted by ElGUitarist (29 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe but wasn't your argument for Robin a grounding character for Bruce? You saying the whole mission oriented Batman makes sense to recuit Robin undermines your original point. To keep him from the darkness (which is being just devoted to the cause and in time blurring the line of right/wrong), he needs that grounding character. Love interest makes more sense than a side kick for him to bring into the shit.

From what you just said, Batman Inc. makes most sense.

It doesn't matter that the character of Robin has been around for a long time, the character never made sense to begin with. The character isn't needed for the cinema. When you put something to cinema, unless cartoon, there is always an element of realism injected. Which is why we're yet to see a live action Batman bust through brick walls bare-handed, leap like a frog (akin to the chase scene in Under the RedHood cartoon movie) or show unreasonably "above-normal" human strength.

@r3d_rob1n : Yes, they should go the more fantastical route for the reboot. Absolutely agree. I don't think, howver, that means they should forgo logic in the bringing a kid into the fray (16 year old makes a little more sense, buttttt....) ... but it still doesn't fit the character too well. I not bothered by the Robin characters, I just think the Dark Knight of Gotham makes more sense as a solo act.

@MrShway88 : just because it's been around that long doesn't mean it works. Rob Liefeld is still in the business after all this time despite the fact the isn't as good as other artists with the same longevity.

#33 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n said:

@LuigiBat: Perhaps a movie that shows the death of Dick Grayson's parents before the credits, and then segues to a training montage during the credits (similar to the one in The Incredible Hulk). That way we can have an older Grayson, while new viewers are not too confused on the character's backstory. Introducing an older Robin in the first film also allows for Nightwing and subsequent Nightwing movies down the road.

I don't like the thought of Jason being Robin in a Batman movie before Dick gets an adequate shot at it, and I don't think that Damian will ever be accepted as a mainstream Robin. I would love to see Death in the Family and Under the Hood done in live action though.

Yeah that would work, I like the sound of it.

I think the issue is that no one wants to see a 12 year old kid in a Batman movie at this point in time, but without putting said kid in the film as Robin you lose out massively in the long run as it means you can't really introduce characters like Nightwing or Red Hood later on. Personally I think a new Batman film should make use of Nightwing, but at the same time it needs to explain the characters origins in a manner similar to what you've described (could even just be a Batman Begins style flashback/opening type thing).

#34 Edited by SupBatz (1777 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n

Perhaps a movie that shows the death of Dick Grayson's parents before the credits, and then segues to a training montage during the credits (similar to the one in The Incredible Hulk). That way we can have an older Grayson, while new viewers are not too confused on the character's backstory. Introducing an older Robin in the first film also allows for Nightwing and subsequent Nightwing movies down the road.

I don't like the thought of Jason being Robin in a Batman movie before Dick gets an adequate shot at it, and I don't think that Damian will ever be accepted as a mainstream Robin. I would love to see Death in the Family and Under the Hood done in live action though.

That's a really great idea (though I disagree that Damian will never be accepted as Robin). I think it'd be a perfect way to start a Batman movie which introduces Robin.

The only real problem is that openning a film like that would basically establish the film as heavily Robin-centric. That's not a bad thing, but it might work best as a second film in a series rather than a first scene of a new reboot.

#35 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14941 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes! But they shouldn't make batman's and Robin's costume look all armory like they did on previous movies, they could try comic book style for a change.

#36 Edited by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@SupBatz: I only think Damian won't be accepted due to his complicated past (Talia and Ra's) and his age. Other than that I think his malicious attitude would go over well.

#37 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeathpooltheT1000: Marvel is making a guardians of the galaxy movie with rocket raccoon. i think the audience would be far more likely to believe a 10 year old boy beating the crap out of thugs than a talking raccoon that shoots guns and blows up stuff. If DC is going to make a more comic booky movie they have to bring in all the elements of batman including robin.

#38 Posted by joshmightbe (24937 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist: Robin worked great in TAS without making it lighter in tone and TAS was better than all but 2 of the Batman movies

#39 Posted by ElGUitarist (29 posts) - - Show Bio

Or do you neglect to read the parts that I say the character of Robin only passes (and IMO only JUST passes) within a comic/cartoon as a sidekick to a character like Batman.

Everyone continues to misunderstand... it is not about the "dark" tone of the movie/series/cartoon... it's about a character who is played out to be a dark avenger of the night having a sidekick. Bruce made the Batman persona to "strike fear into the hearts of criminals" and all that other hype. That hype is killed once you see that he has a sidekick - sure everything can still be dark and gritty, but not the persona. That's why I liked Alfred, Gordon, Fox (and Blake in TDKR)... no one knows these people are helping this terrifying knight; all anyone sees is one terrifying bat-man-thing doing superhuman type of things.

#40 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist: Marvel is making a guardians of the galaxy movie with rocket raccoon. i think the audience would be far more likely to believe a 10 year old boy beating the crap out of thugs than a talking raccoon that shoots guns and blows up stuff. If DC is going to make a more comic booky movie they have to bring in all the elements of batman including robin.

#41 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@Eternal19: The Guardians of the Galaxy movie would have a completely different feel than a Batman movie, regardless of whether they draw more from comics. It is hard to say what an audience would and wouldn't accept by comparing two different movies, even though they are in the same genre.

It seems to me that @ElGUitarist: just disagrees with the Robin concept, which is actually a pretty popular opinion. It's hard to justify some of the actions that Bruce takes as Batman, as so many seem to contradict other points. One of those contradictions is Robin. To me it makes sense that Bruce would take in Dick, as he views him more as a kindred spirit than a son (at least that is the way I read their relationship). I try to think of the other Robins as more of a soldier than ward of Bruce Wayne. He brings these kids into his life with the full knowledge that he is placing them in great danger.

If Robin is placed in the correct suit, and has the correct demeanor, then I believe that he can also be used to intimidate criminals. I view Robin similarly to Spider-man; just because he is more light hearted doesn't necessarily mean that he can't be frightening to a criminal, especially if he is angry or backed into a corner. It's also hard to argue with Robin's skill set. He is definitely more than a match for any common thug, and has been known to give the big leaguers a run for their money.

#42 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n: ya your right its obvious that hes a fan of the nolan movies by his comments people who read batman before the nolan movies hated what he did with robin. but i grew up with Batman and robin. when i read batman comics it just doesnt feel right when robins not with him. the sostume should be more like the red robin costume in my opinion, i hated what they did with tim in arkham city, it looked like damian waynes costume on some bald eminem look alike with a super deep voice.

#43 Edited by ElGUitarist (29 posts) - - Show Bio

you're clearly not understanding my point that I've spent quite a few points clarifying. It isn't about an audience believing a 10 year old beating up criminals (which is damn ridiculous, but that's besides the point).

The point is BATMAN HAVING A SIDEKICK, PERIOD. Kid or adult, a sidekick does not suit the Batman persona Bruce tried/is trying/has created. This inconsistency/contradiction flies in the comics and cartoons, but not as well for live action adaptations.

It's also kinda insulting assuming that since I like what Nolan did, I must not know Batman beforehand. I grew up with TAS when I came home from school when it first aired. I'm just not a fanboyish type to think the movie has to be exactly like the comics. Batman was not trained by the League of Assassins, but why would I be upset about that in the Nolan films (just an example)? Nolan got the essence and ideal of Batman across leaps and bounds beyond any live-action interpretation so far. And being a music guy with a BMus degree, I'm a sucker for the score. Watching TAS as a kid, Robin didn't make sense to me then for the same reasons I've been mentioning. But it was a cartoon, so it was something you have to put aside... like a no-superpower Batman leaping across rooftops as if his superpower was super jumps.

Nolan happened to think what I've thought since I was a kid - Robin doesn't work IRL interpretations. So, he made him into a cop/detective that acts as a behind the scenes help to Batman (a la Gordon and Fox). To me, Nolan has come very close to portraying the idea of Batman I've had since I was 8years old. So, I like it.

: yeah, it makes sense for Bruce to take in Dick or any other of those characters. But to use them as sidekicks to his Batman? Not so much to me. To train them to eventually become their own heros independent of Batman? That works.

Batman could be partnered with the Punisher... it's the fact that Batman wouldn't come across as the inhuman demon figure Bruce created for the Batman if he had a partner on scene. All my favourite arcs have been solo Batman (at most with Robin(s) in the background for a few scenes, and/or Bats working with Gordon and shit).

#44 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist: i think it goes with him good. batman needs someone to continue his crusade. and robin has been in batman comics since the silver age, without the inclusion of the robins we would have never had some of batmans best stories. the robins are part of the batman mythos its what spreads batmans legacy all over the DC universe and what makes it so interesting.

#45 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

Why the hell do people always want reboots of the same characters once their stories are finished?

It is really getting annoying. Let's see some new heroes for the sake of humanity!!!!

#46 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@Eternal19: I liked the deeper colors used in the Arkham games and a hood, while not practical, would do well to better conceal his identity than a domino mask. his hair and the short sleeves in the game didn't go over well for me though. A costume like Tim's post Infinite Crisis (only with a deeper shade of red and maybe ditch the yellow in the cape) should do well though. I just want to see some sick team-ups like what Nolan did with Batman and Catwoman, and having robin in the middle of a fight twirling a bo-staff would be ridiculously awesome

#47 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

@Twentyfive: i know what you mean but DC already said they're going to do a reboot.

#48 Posted by ElGUitarist (29 posts) - - Show Bio

: In case you didn't catch my edit (damn only 5 posts per day):

It's also kinda insulting assuming that since I like what Nolan did, I must not know Batman beforehand. I grew up with TAS when I came home from school when it first aired. I'm just not a fanboyish type to think the movie has to be exactly like the comics. Batman was not trained by the League of Assassins, but why would I be upset about that in the Nolan films (just an example)? Nolan got the essence and ideal of Batman across leaps and bounds beyond any live-action interpretation so far. And being a music guy with a BMus degree, I'm a sucker for the score. Watching TAS as a kid, Robin didn't make sense to me then for the same reasons I've been mentioning. But it was a cartoon, so it was something you have to put aside... like a no-superpower Batman leaping across rooftops as if his superpower was super jumps.

Nolan happened to think what I've thought since I was a kid - Robin doesn't work IRL interpretations. So, he made him into a cop/detective that acts as a behind the scenes help to Batman (a la Gordon and Fox). To me, Nolan has come very close to portraying the idea of Batman I've had since I was 8years old. So, I like it.

--it's part of the "legend", but I still think it's a mistake/contradiction. of course he needs someone to continue the legacy/Batman mantle. Doesn't mean he needs a sidekick. Dick could be worked as to take the mantle when Bruce gets too old cuz Bruce has been training him to become a hero... but why as a sidekick? Why not be in Bruce's care and guidance, but independent of Batman, then take the mantle when the time should come?

#49 Posted by War Killer (20337 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes and it should be Dick Grayson as the first Robin.

Young Justice Robin (Dick)
#50 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@ElGUitarist said:

: yeah, it makes sense for Bruce to take in Dick or any other of those characters. But to use them as sidekicks to his Batman? Not so much to me. To train them to eventually become their own heros independent of Batman? That works.

The only problem I have with the not using them as Robins and sidekicks to Batman is that there are too many unpredictable situations. These future replacements need on-the-job training, so to speak, so that they get the true knack for being a hero. Without it they could end up freezing up at the wrong moments. It doesn't matter so much to me whether they use "Robin" as a training identity or not (as a former poster suggested). There is also the fact that he trains more than 1 Robin, they can't all be meant to only take over as Batman one day. They are important to him handling the crime in Gotham, and the only way I see them being effective is with some sort of training time in the real world.

I had the same problem with Blake in the Nolan movie (I refuse to think of him as Robin, he was more like Terry than anyone). He was handed the Batman mantle by Bruce with absolutely no training. He basically handed the keys of a tank over to a hot-headed cop that was tired of the restrictions of the law. It sounds a bit too much like the Punisher to me, and the two characters are actually quite different.

On an unrelated note... is there a post limit? I saw you mention it at one point.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.